Yes, they were intelligent, but any real modern philosopher could have done a similar or better job.
>woah things have goals
>woah things have ideal forms of themselves
>just stop thinking about bad things and your life will be happy
Seriously?
Philosophy really took off with Kant and Hegel. Before that it was pointless intellectual masturbation. Bugs appearing out of nowhere? Lmao.
wow it's so lebait ,that's so le fricking funny to take le non-egdy IQfy's edgy side of the contrary of the contrarian LMAO
It's not bait. I'm 100% serious.
Then your 101% uninformed. Next!
>Yes, they were intelligent, but any real modern philosopher could have done a similar or better job.
Numerous problems right here in this sentence.
1. Are you saying a modern philosopher could come to the same conclusions as the Greeks did? Modernity is thousands of years from ancient times, so a person in ancient times managing to come up with all that makes them thousands of years ahead of their own time, making them geniuses.
2. It’s easy to come up with an idea that’s already been come up with before, and even tinker with it to make it better. I could write down all the philosophies of the ancient Greeks, all the plays of Shakespeare, all the poems of Blake, Whitman, Yeats, I could do it all and still nobody would call me a genius because it’s been done before.
3. Are you saying that if the Greeks never existed, modern man would just come up with the same philosophies regardless? How could you possibly know that? The modern world is built on what came before it. If ancient times was changed substantially, then the modern world would change too.
4. If you’re saying that a “Greek” style philosophy would exist regardless of whether the Greeks exist or not, then you’re saying they tapped into some primordial truth mankind would always have. That’s very intelligent of them, especially doing so thousands of years ago.
5. In the limited technical sense of things which actually happened, the Greeks are the ones who said it all. Whatever modern man could hypothetically do is irrelevant.
Skipping to later in your post “philosophy really took off with Kant and Hegel.” You have not read either of those authors, they are both indebted to the Greeks.
>1. Are you saying a modern philosopher could come to the same conclusions as the Greeks did? Modernity is thousands of years from ancient times, so a person in ancient times managing to come up with all that makes them thousands of years ahead of their own time, making them geniuses.
I should clarify. An average philosopher, dropped into the Greek world from childhood would be able to develop similar systems.
>3. Are you saying that if the Greeks never existed, modern man would just come up with the same philosophies regardless? How could you possibly know that? The modern world is built on what came before it. If ancient times was changed substantially, then the modern world would change too.
No, I mean that people today are as intelligent enough as the Ancients and would be able to make similar philosophies.
>, then you’re saying they tapped into some primordial truth mankind would always have.
Not primordial truth as such, but philosophies which depend on a specific cultural context to exist.
>You have not read either of those authors, they are both indebted to the Greeks.
I have a bit of both. But I am closer to Marxism than pure Hegelianism.
I admit, I do respect STEM much more than philosophy. Yes, the philosophy of logic has contributed significantly to science and actually making people's lives better. To quote Trotsky:
>Faith merely promises to move mountains; but technology, which takes nothing ‘on faith’, is actually able to cut down mountains and move them.
Practical, materialist philosophy has been the only one connected with the real affairs of this world, not being decieved by the unending egoism of the philosopher.
>I am closer to Marxism
Explains why you are so moronic
>any real modern philosopher could have done a similar or better job
yeah, by copying the greeks.
Start with the Americans, you are not ready for the Greeks.
>Before that it was pointless intellectual masturbation
>Cites Kant and Hegel
Your bait has to be believable. This thread barely merits a response, but I predict 20+ replies.
Kant and Hegel were pseud midwits. If you want real philosophy just go for STEM. Science and math actually establish objective truth instead of making up baseless bullshit.
Fixed
>I am closer to Marxism
Should have started with that
I'm sorry.
You take for granted what the greeks did.
These ideas seem obvious to you because they've been ingrained in society for thousands of years, but they are infact greek ideas, that were revolutionary and prior to the greeks, they were not obvious.
>they are infact greek ideas
They have parallels in the egyptian, iranian, indian and chinese civilizations
You want to know why all these cultures came up with similar ideas at the same time? Coinage. Traditional economies were replaced with a system where all goods were interchangeable by means of little lumps of metal, and this led people to start thinking about how everything is really the same... somehow. Then they started conceiving of morality itself in terms of debt and exchange. Boom, Christianity, Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Platonism, etc, all arise from this material factor.
Plato: if you behave like a dog in this life you will reincarnate as a dog in the next
Modern philosophy: I'm scared of reincarnation and karma
Plato FTW
>Bugs appearing out of nowhere? Lmao.
The irony here is that modern theories of the origin of life actually depend on spontaneous abiogenesis. The metaphysics of such a process are exactly as Aristotle described them.
>woah things have goals, things have ideal forms
That was important because it showed that the world can't be reduced to material processes and the interaction of "stuff", that reality was intelligible. If that sounds obvious, it's because you have benefited from the Greeks. And in particular this opened the door to a mathematical analysis of physical phenomena. Without this insight, modern science could not have developed.
> Then there is a point which some find extraordinary, that they [the Athenians] everywhere assign more to the worst persons, to the poor, and to the popular types than to the good men: in this very point they will be found manifestly preserving their democracy.
> For this reason we have set up equality between slaves and free men, and between metics and citizens. The city needs metics in view of the many different trades and the fleet. Accordingly, then, we have reasonably set up a similar equality also for the metics. [13]
They were very modern, from a modern point of view.
>Philosophy really took off with Kant and Hegel.
the opposite. every midwit created their own sect and now 300 years later we have the equivalent of 1500 protestant sects with their own lingo and specific kind of moronation that is completely detached from reality because no one checks them given that they'd also need a decade of indoctrination to understand the babble.
>Socrates had started in Athens, and old Cato continued in Rome, to rail against those cunning and subtle Greeks who seduced virtue and softened the courage of his fellow citizens. But the sciences, the arts, and dialectic prevailed once more: Rome filled with philosophers and orators; military discipline was neglected, agriculture was scorned, sects were embraced, and the homeland was forgotten. The sacred names of liberty, selflessness, and obedience to the laws were replaced by the names of Epicurus, Zeno, and Arcesilaus. "Since the scholars have begun to appear among us," said their own philosophers, "the good people have disappeared." Until then, the Romans had been content to practice virtue; everything was lost when they began to study it.
>modern philosopher
Yeah I can't wait to hear some npc wax on about the YOLO lifestyle...
>Philosophy really took off with Kant and Hegel. Before that it was pointless intellectual masturbation.
Tell that to Kant and Hegel.