Advaita Vedanta further discussion

How is the Dissolution experienced in deep sleep or the end of a world-cycle different from what Yajnavalkya describes by the name Atyantika Pralaya - Absolute dissolution of enlightenment

He uses metaphors like the lump of salt dissolving in water in Br 4:5-13 "Having emerged out of these elements, he vanished along with them after transcending them there is no more consciousness"

As I have followed along, in deep sleep due to the absence of empirical experience, the Jiva becomes one with the Absolute, that union "Satsampatti" is threatened with a break in the state, with a return to waking, however through Enlightenment one realizes that he has always been the Absolute Ātman without any vestige of consciousness or action.

It is clear that whilst in deep sleep or dissolution, one can't even engage with the world. So if we realize that we were without any vestige of empirical consciousness or action how would we continue to transact with the empirical world? Like Yajnavalkya said there is "no more consciousness," shankara repeats that it is not like we have to repeat the mahavakyas like "thou art that" like to retain and sustain the experience like some later vedantins said, but only that Manana, Niddhyasana and so on were prior to Realization - he made it clear that this didn't mean that brahman was subject to injunction, for that reason that it could only be subject to injunction if it were already attained and then those injunctions were engages with like Manana.

How does the constant chatter of "what's next," "what if," "soo..." integrate into this realization?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Keep in mind that, contrary to what the guenon gays and other hindu larpers on IQfy keeps saying, Advaita Vedanta is not a major branch of Hinduism.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Advaita Vedanta is not a major branch of Hinduism.
      Yes it is. Being major isn’t just a matter of number of followers. Vedanta is one of the core philosophies of Hinduism, and Advaita is the first Vedanta school to formalize and write a comprehensive set of commentaries on the Hindu scriptures. Advaita has one of the largest corpuses of philosophical writings and engaged in continuous debate with all the other school. Advaita has been immensely influential, both in terms of setting the terms of the debate and influencing the doctrines of other schools.

      As examples:
      The Navya-Nyaya development of Nyaya was initiated largely in response to Advaita
      Shaktism is basically just tantric Advaita for householders, popular Shaktist sects like Sri Vidya include Shankara in their guru lineage and Shaktist philosophers like Bhaskararaya praise Shankara.
      The Advaitist scholar Vacaspati Mishra wrote on all the schools of Hindu thought and his works were widely read by followers of other Hindu traditions, he wrote the most widely read medieval commentary on the Yoga Sutras for example.
      The popular Hindu saints of the modern era that command the attention and love of the masses are usually non-dualist/Advaitins (e.g. Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaja, Sree Narayana Guru etc.)
      Sikhism is hugely influenced by the metaphysics of Advaita and is like a sufism-inflected Advaita.
      South Indian Shaivism is hugely influenced by Advaita, with late medieval south Indian Shaivist literature adopting many Advaitist doctrines/terminology etc.
      And of course its perhaps the single most widely studied Hindu schools of thought among scholars.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, and Shankara was BTFO by Ramanuja

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > Shankara was BTFO by Ramanuja
        Not really, Ramanuja's arguments are quite easy to refute if you've read Shankara. Ramanuja misunderstands Shankara as some sort of subjective idealist, and so his arguments about avidya are based on this conception but they are negated by the fact of Shankara identifying and equating aviyda with the maya that he writes is the sakti of the Paramisvara, and so it's not individual minds conjuring up the illusion of samsara but the Supreme Lord.

        There are also numerous inconsistencies in Ramanuja that undermine his arguments against Advaita. For example he tries to argue against the Advaitic Atman by saying that there is no undifferentiated knowledge and that consciousness is inherently intentional, but then when it comes to the topic of dreamless sleep when the intellect is inactive Ramanuja writes that the Atman remains aware of itself via an essentially non-conceptual, self-illuminating, self-directed, non-intentional self-consciousness of "I" of the Atman. But accepting this as possible in dreamless sleep contradicts his complaints against Advaita that such kinds of knowledge are in principle impossible. The Advaitins are basically saying that something similar to what Ramanuja proposes in dreamless sleep in fact pervades all psycho-physical states equally (i.e. the 4th or Turiya of the Upanishads) and thereby is present in addition to the mental content that may or may not characterize those states.

        There is also the broader point that Ramanuja emphasizes the continuity of Brahman as one single entity with his body forming the universe and living souls when he wants to argue that his system of Vishishtadvaita best expresses the meaning of Upanishadic verses like "O Somya, it is like this: By knowing a single lump of earth you know all objects made of earth.", but then when it comes to faults and sins and everything bad he tries to suddenly switch to one portion of Brahman being transcendent to It's body such that the faults no longer apply to Brahman in a kind of shell-game, but in fact the continuity of Brahman with its body as a single entity that he calls "without a second" which he has already committed himself to means that his shell-game results in a God that has real and existing portions of Itself that are characterized and actively effected by ignorance, sin etc, and this is doubly so because of him ruling out illusions in his epistemology and metaphysics to a degree that doesn't allow for him to say "those evils are only a privation/misunderstanding and don't exist as real flaws in God". At one point in his works there is a part where he mocks the idea of propounding a being that is one part in heaven and one part in hell, but he never succeeds in overcoming a similar kind of dilemma residing in his attempts to affirm simultaneously that (1) Brahman is perfect and (2) Brahman is existentially continuous with the world with it all being one entity and (3) there are no illusions per se.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How is the Dissolution experienced in deep sleep or the end of a world-cycle different from what Yajnavalkya describes by the name Atyantika Pralaya - Absolute dissolution of enlightenment
    Read Shankara’s Bhashya on the Mandukya Karika, he explains in detail there the three states of waking, dream and dreamless sleep as well as the 4th “state” Turiya which is not another state but the nature of the Atman. Dreamless sleep (prajna) is regarded as similar in certain ways to but still different from the eternal non-dual freedom of the Atman-Brahman, specifically there is a remaining latent ignorance that helps bring about the reemergence of the waking state. In the Mandukya Karika Bhashya 1.11 he says that prajna is still characterized by non-perception of reality. In comparison to prajna, which is like “the eye looking in darkness and seeing nothing” eternal liberation is more like “light all the way down”. Prajna is similar to Turiya in that there is no duality presenting itself in objective form.

    It should be understood that when Yajnavalkya talks about final liberation its only referring to the POV of the jiva, the Atman is already completely free right now and its not as though that its freed and then “dissolved”. The dissolution is only with reference to the insentient non-Atman components forming the jiva.

    > the Jiva becomes one with the Absolute
    The Jiva is an appearance of the Absolute, comparable to the reflection of a moon in water, the image doesn’t ever become one with its source except in a figurative manner.

    > vestige of empirical consciousness or action how would we continue to transact with the empirical world?
    Because the intellect continues to be what transacts with the world. The intellect is where agency, volition etc resides and is the seat of dualistic experience. Before and after enlightenment the mind is what acts etc, the difference is that after enlightenment the mind isn’t wrongly projecting/attributing this agency to the Self and isnt considering the mind to be the Self of the jiva anymore.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To elaborate a little more, Shankara often is happy simply to follow the trend of whatever text he is commenting on. The Mandukya Upanishad is the Upanishad which expounds Turiya, or the 4th, most elaborately. Turiya is briefly mentioned in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad as the 4th but it doesn’t play any prominent role in the Brihadaranyaka’s discussion of sleep, which focuses primarily on talking about sleep is a peaceful state free of apparent duality. Shankara mostly follows the Brihadaranyaka in talking about sleep that way in his Bhashya on that Upanishad, but it’s actually in multiple other works that he fully clarifies his position in a place that is more directly relevant to the root verses being commented upon, especially in the Mandukya-Karika-Bhashya (where Turiya and its difference from Prajna is discussed), in the Chandogya Upanishad Bhashya (in his commentary on their verses about sleep) and in the Brahma Sutra Bhashya.

      Any talk of apparent merger with Brahman is only figurative because Its immutable, and Immutable thing doesn’t have parts (and Brahman is partless as well) merge into It and then separate from It. The Chandogya Upanishad also talks about in the state of sleep people still don’t know their true nature.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I have an unironic question for you, I have been reading alot of reddit specifically the r/smalldickproblems and it has highlighted a certain point

      The reddit users there discuss a problem which gives them such anxiety and even many report of being on edge and suicidal. They have a perceived objective, empirical, problem (the size of their sexual organ) a part of their body, which is what they experience in waking, and society tries to tell them, "no your body doesn't matter, it's all in your head" yet the common culture is full of small dick jokes, and women in conjunction with the media, and so forth, treat them differently and use this weakness to their advantage and hold it over these guys heads, causing mental anguish and despair over the necessity of the bodies proportion and design.

      Anyway I hope you understand the problem, how can advaita resolve the root of this misconception which is the source of their suffering, honestly hearing the levels some of these guys in there have gone to (contemplating suicide), they're unable to accept the body for what it is because the body has been due to social and cultural, "mental" conditioning, from childhood, and also supported by traumatic experiences of rejection, and so forth which further crushed their sense of identity their subjective mental concept, the entirety of their sense of identity, "self-worth" (if such a notion even has a correlate), yet again their objective condition is absolutely miserable, they are deemed unfit for sexual copulation, inferior, humiliated, judged and compared and so on.

      I am asking in all honesty, and would like to hear your response. Clearly sexuality, sexual identity, sex and so on is not so overtly discussed in shankara and advaitic literature, but I still see the vedantic literature as having applicability to resolve the problem, since theres no way they can actually liberate themselves from their internal strife without the actual elimination of that mind-body complex fuelling their unfulfilfment and dissatisfaction. I mean the size of the sexual organ doesn't make you less of a human being or somehow biologically "defective," or "unnatural," since they are composed of the five elements, all the same, since reproduction is still possible independent of the size, in the case of genuine birth defects, clearly these people also have sexual desire, which has just can come under a distorting lens and of course these guys who are saying they are becoming suicidal most of them have their other sensory organs, eye-organ, buddhi intact, etc. It seems they are suffering from a very strong mental affliction which is driving their despair.

      Some of these posts I have read, honestly remind me of like Yajnavalkya in terms of renunciation of wealth in a way, they will say that all the possessions, wealth, etc. That they accrue is totally worthless, because they deem that they'll never fulfill this one goal which is I guess related to whatever they envision

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The simple goal they envision which they say without it, the accrual of all knowledge, wealth, and so on is worthless is deemed to be an "impossibility," because it is by natural determination and a certain arrangement or configuration of the elements and all the other factors like heredity, the environment and so on, the body is proportioned only in such a way because of a balance, its integrity and constitution is such that it could not handle "any more or less" at the current moment at least.

        Anyhow, so it is a fact that really, there is no way around it, those people who are burning in a tortured desire for some transformation of the material body can't be satiated by any amount of anguish, their problem is not so much because of the incidental factors of nature, which I described but more so because the mind itself is contracted by its association with the body and the adjuncts by which the stressors, triggers and so forth provoke.

        Even if one meditates for 7 days on a retreat, they have a shower the day later or some day, they just take their clothes off they are reminded again by the bare fact of this body, and by the force of habit they find themselves again in suffering because of the sense of necessity associating with the limited empirical consciousness and its wants and apparent needs. This extends beyond that particular problem I highlighted, it would work the same for anyone with a body dymsorphic disorder, only in the case I highlighted before a certain confluence between the survival instinct and the association is more readily apparent which probably makes the impressions more heavy and rooted.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I have an unironic question for you, I have been reading alot of reddit specifically the r/smalldickproblems and it has highlighted a certain point

          The reddit users there discuss a problem which gives them such anxiety and even many report of being on edge and suicidal. They have a perceived objective, empirical, problem (the size of their sexual organ) a part of their body, which is what they experience in waking, and society tries to tell them, "no your body doesn't matter, it's all in your head" yet the common culture is full of small dick jokes, and women in conjunction with the media, and so forth, treat them differently and use this weakness to their advantage and hold it over these guys heads, causing mental anguish and despair over the necessity of the bodies proportion and design.

          Anyway I hope you understand the problem, how can advaita resolve the root of this misconception which is the source of their suffering, honestly hearing the levels some of these guys in there have gone to (contemplating suicide), they're unable to accept the body for what it is because the body has been due to social and cultural, "mental" conditioning, from childhood, and also supported by traumatic experiences of rejection, and so forth which further crushed their sense of identity their subjective mental concept, the entirety of their sense of identity, "self-worth" (if such a notion even has a correlate), yet again their objective condition is absolutely miserable, they are deemed unfit for sexual copulation, inferior, humiliated, judged and compared and so on.

          I am asking in all honesty, and would like to hear your response. Clearly sexuality, sexual identity, sex and so on is not so overtly discussed in shankara and advaitic literature, but I still see the vedantic literature as having applicability to resolve the problem, since theres no way they can actually liberate themselves from their internal strife without the actual elimination of that mind-body complex fuelling their unfulfilfment and dissatisfaction. I mean the size of the sexual organ doesn't make you less of a human being or somehow biologically "defective," or "unnatural," since they are composed of the five elements, all the same, since reproduction is still possible independent of the size, in the case of genuine birth defects, clearly these people also have sexual desire, which has just can come under a distorting lens and of course these guys who are saying they are becoming suicidal most of them have their other sensory organs, eye-organ, buddhi intact, etc. It seems they are suffering from a very strong mental affliction which is driving their despair.

          Some of these posts I have read, honestly remind me of like Yajnavalkya in terms of renunciation of wealth in a way, they will say that all the possessions, wealth, etc. That they accrue is totally worthless, because they deem that they'll never fulfill this one goal which is I guess related to whatever they envision

          Even more interesting you see people coming out of this community, people who take on traditional religous identification as a strategic measure to "lure in a female, virginal and inexperienced female," to secure a "wife" who will be then bred with the intention of starting a family, this sexual selection strategy all because of the fear of rejection otherwise. See the survival drive is so strong that people are ready to go to such ends, to limit the women's sexual freedom, essentially enslaving them. It is interesting to contemplate how many diverse forms the human can take only to veil his want of progeny, I think it makes sense that in the upanishads sons were spoken of along aside cattle and heaven.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The simple goal they envision which they say without it, the accrual of all knowledge, wealth, and so on is worthless is deemed to be an "impossibility," because it is by natural determination and a certain arrangement or configuration of the elements and all the other factors like heredity, the environment and so on, the body is proportioned only in such a way because of a balance, its integrity and constitution is such that it could not handle "any more or less" at the current moment at least.

            Anyhow, so it is a fact that really, there is no way around it, those people who are burning in a tortured desire for some transformation of the material body can't be satiated by any amount of anguish, their problem is not so much because of the incidental factors of nature, which I described but more so because the mind itself is contracted by its association with the body and the adjuncts by which the stressors, triggers and so forth provoke.

            Even if one meditates for 7 days on a retreat, they have a shower the day later or some day, they just take their clothes off they are reminded again by the bare fact of this body, and by the force of habit they find themselves again in suffering because of the sense of necessity associating with the limited empirical consciousness and its wants and apparent needs. This extends beyond that particular problem I highlighted, it would work the same for anyone with a body dymsorphic disorder, only in the case I highlighted before a certain confluence between the survival instinct and the association is more readily apparent which probably makes the impressions more heavy and rooted.

            I have an unironic question for you, I have been reading alot of reddit specifically the r/smalldickproblems and it has highlighted a certain point

            The reddit users there discuss a problem which gives them such anxiety and even many report of being on edge and suicidal. They have a perceived objective, empirical, problem (the size of their sexual organ) a part of their body, which is what they experience in waking, and society tries to tell them, "no your body doesn't matter, it's all in your head" yet the common culture is full of small dick jokes, and women in conjunction with the media, and so forth, treat them differently and use this weakness to their advantage and hold it over these guys heads, causing mental anguish and despair over the necessity of the bodies proportion and design.

            Anyway I hope you understand the problem, how can advaita resolve the root of this misconception which is the source of their suffering, honestly hearing the levels some of these guys in there have gone to (contemplating suicide), they're unable to accept the body for what it is because the body has been due to social and cultural, "mental" conditioning, from childhood, and also supported by traumatic experiences of rejection, and so forth which further crushed their sense of identity their subjective mental concept, the entirety of their sense of identity, "self-worth" (if such a notion even has a correlate), yet again their objective condition is absolutely miserable, they are deemed unfit for sexual copulation, inferior, humiliated, judged and compared and so on.

            I am asking in all honesty, and would like to hear your response. Clearly sexuality, sexual identity, sex and so on is not so overtly discussed in shankara and advaitic literature, but I still see the vedantic literature as having applicability to resolve the problem, since theres no way they can actually liberate themselves from their internal strife without the actual elimination of that mind-body complex fuelling their unfulfilfment and dissatisfaction. I mean the size of the sexual organ doesn't make you less of a human being or somehow biologically "defective," or "unnatural," since they are composed of the five elements, all the same, since reproduction is still possible independent of the size, in the case of genuine birth defects, clearly these people also have sexual desire, which has just can come under a distorting lens and of course these guys who are saying they are becoming suicidal most of them have their other sensory organs, eye-organ, buddhi intact, etc. It seems they are suffering from a very strong mental affliction which is driving their despair.

            Some of these posts I have read, honestly remind me of like Yajnavalkya in terms of renunciation of wealth in a way, they will say that all the possessions, wealth, etc. That they accrue is totally worthless, because they deem that they'll never fulfill this one goal which is I guess related to whatever they envision

            I would say a single reddit community is like the collective embodiment of a "distended vikalpa" The result of oversensitization facilitated by the internet, and egalitarian leisure.
            The whole problem stems from the average individuals inability to relinquish their tendency towards comparison, now that doesn't mean "blending all things together into a chaotic mess" I will explain. An example I will provide is the myth of "human equality," that is taken as an almost basic assumption, but implicit in that notion of a equal whole humanity is inequality, the very notion of equality is abstracted from inqueality, inequality is observed so an artificial equality is attemptedly overlain upon it. It is only when the unquestioned assumption is challenged, when both "equality," and "inequality," or comparison all together, does one start to understand an actually whole life and humanity. A humanity in which each individual is distinct and unique, each thing is distinct and unique, one from the other, they are all incommensurable and incomparable to eachother, as "every number is infinite." As soon as that shift occurs, the "distended vikalpas," fall away without effort and a step towards wholeness and true fulfilment is made in independent sovreignty and freedom.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What you say is true in that following or studying the Advaitic teaching could help alleviate their psychological distress but I don't know if there is much to say about that specific kind of insecurity as opposed to others because the Advaitic advice would apply to all such kinds of misidentifications equally. Due to being connected more their hormones, their "unconscious urges", libido etc, I would imagine it's harder to disentangle oneself from the mind's anxieties about that particular anxiety compared to other possible anxieties because this topic seems more intimate to oneself than many others but the same advice would still apply at the end of the day. If you understand that the real you is already timeless and free and genderless, and that the current body is just one of innumerable images in a series which have appeared without beginning, and that you are not the current image any more than any of the prior ones, then that can help you stop considering the body-image problems and insecurities to be yours.

        If someone is going to study Advaita or try to apply its insights to improve their life or mental well-being while still living in the world and being social or sexually-active, you kind of end up having both a 'long-view' and a 'short-view' where you understand that ultimately, you are not the body etc and there is just the non-dual consciousness of Brahman alone, but in the 'short-view' you are playing your role in the cosmic play by acting out your identity as individual so-and-so and that since you've decided to remain in the world you might as well enjoy what it has to offer while not letting yourself get hung up on things that are ultimately irrelevant when viewed from the 'long-view', and you can still take steps to remedy problems in the 'short-view' but without mistakenly viewing them as being more than what they are. In cases of insecurity about body problems and similar issues you can even take steps to remedy it (penis pumps, skin regiments, hair transplants, working out, boob jobs etc) while still viewing that as ultimately just part of the role you are playing in the game and as not pertaining to the real you.

        In years of posting and seeing others post online about eastern philosophy once in a blue moon you see people who are either mentally ill or who are inexperienced newcomers and who may express shock or unhappyness at some realization that they claim made everything meaningless or messed with their life and rendered them unable to socialize etc, but I think that this is typically the result of them failing to successfully integrate their 'long-view' with the 'short-view' and that most people who aren't mentally ill can eventually learn to do this with time. I would even say the people who fail to do this right from the outset of their study seem to be a small minority and usually have some other issue going on, like people who take LSD and it brings out their mental illness that was under the surface.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well it is for sure not a specific problem, but being connected to the unconscious libido such a thing would be more difficult to entangle, that makes alot of sense. I am totally aware that all such problems, "body dysmorphic" disorders would present issues of this sort, in a more general and extended way. I just find that issue interesting to contemplate, is there anything about the libido discussed in advaita texts? Anything about psychological wellness, just plain and simple renunciation seems as if it could not end well. But yeah there are all sorts of problems, as many as the mind in conjunction and relation to the body can conjure. This specific problem I only highlight because I noticed it seems to cause such a problem for those people, and it did make me reflect on the issue more generally, "what if I didn't have such and such a body, what if I were to be missing a limb, and so on" because clearly they are not excluded from realizing the truth of their being in whatever form.

          I guess in more general, my question should be reasked in the form, what is the right relationship with the body and sexuality in advaita? I read some things like just envision the body as flesh, blood, feces and so on to cause "vairagya," and to be completely celibate but that didn't sit right.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >you can still take steps to remedy problems in the 'short-view' but without mistakenly viewing them as being more than what they are.
          Yes I understand this longs long view/short view distinction, but what to do when the mind gets stuck on something presenting itself as an apparently insoluble problem? That there is a feeling of missing out on X experience in the world, regardless of one's internalisation of the long-view.
          >you can even take steps to remedy it (penis pumps, skin regiments, hair transplants, working out, boob jobs etc) while still viewing that as ultimately just part of the role you are playing in the game and as not pertaining to the real you.
          I have no moral judgements to pass on people who do all those things, but it still doesn't change anything about what I'm saying, how to get over feeling slighted over the "short-view," say there is an "incel" for example, he realizes Brahman, and the world has no enjoyments anyway for him, at what point does committing suicide become reasonable? Surely it doesn't matter, this human world is a farce in all forms, and this mind-body existence is clearly as nothing in the long-view right?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How does an advaitin deal with social outlasting, humiliation, rejection from the world in the first place? I understand how many hippies can live in bubbles, of advaita + healthy living and so on, but how does one deal with being poor, incel + rejected from society of birth? Obviously not in a way different to anything else, it's all the same, how do you cope with the fact that this world and existence is "as nothing," literally, yet it has to be continuously engaged with so long as embodied.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Also what is the right way to think about and treat other people? Surely there is no injunction about this, so a serial killer or rapist could have realized Brahman all the same if I am not mistaken? Is being an uncompassionate pitiless butthole 100% compatible with shankaras advaita?

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I am confused about the degree to which Advaita REALLY differs from Vishishtadvaita. Shankara doesn't really deny the provisional existence of grades of being within Maya does he? Couldn't an enlightened sage still enjoy beholding the complexity of Maya after enlightenment? It doesn't all just dissolve like a cloud?

    I would very much like to have an Advaita reading group. We could read a secondary source first or we could go straight to the Upanishads and Shankara's commentaries. Would anyone be willing to keep a thread like this going?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I am confused about the degree to which Advaita REALLY differs from Vishishtadvaita.
      They agree on more than most people assume at first glance although important and seemingly unbridgeable differences remain. To the extent that Vishishtadvaita worships the Saguna Brahman and endorses karma-yoga and bhakti-yoga Advaita accepts much of its practices as being valid ways of making progress towards moksha, but just as not as effective as the Advaitic method, There is a history within the Advaitin tradition of understanding Ramanuja respectfully in this light although it's expressed in primary source texts that are not translated.
      >Shankara doesn't really deny the provisional existence of grades of being within Maya does he?
      This is a complex question and you'd have to get more specific about what you mean. He accepts that there is a practical and empirical difference between an object comprised of the gross (or subtle) elements which exists relatively as part of the cosmic illusion and on the other hand pure delusions that are conjured up by one's imagination and don't even exist relatively if that's what you mean.
      >Couldn't an enlightened sage still enjoy beholding the complexity of Maya after enlightenment?
      A fully enlightened sage would have no further desires for enjoying anything in the Advaitic view, having uprooted desire and not identifying with the mind anymore, but he could still interact with and perceive the complexity of the world. The world of empirical experiences doesn't vanish in enlightenment but only one's mistaken beliefs about it vanish. The mind continues on experiencing the world until death but without any fear, unhappyness etc, and this is how instruction is imparted to disciples by a realized teacher.
      >It doesn't all just dissolve like a cloud?
      No, Shankara specifically writes about a type of karma called prarabdha-karma which remains and which accounts for one's continued empirical experience of the world until bodily death, he mentions it in at several places including Brahma Sutra Bhashya verses 4-1-15 and 4-1-19 as well as Brihadaranyaka Upanishad Bhashya verse 1-4-7.
      >I would very much like to have an Advaita reading group. We could read a secondary source first or we could go straight to the Upanishads and Shankara's commentaries. Would anyone be willing to keep a thread like this going?
      I'm too busy to organize and maintain myself but I would participate if someone else did. I've already read all of Shankara's authentic works but I would be happy to contribute to any discussion of reading them. My discord username is diomedes6067 if you want to reach me there.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone well-versed in Hindu philosophy tell me about Kashmiri Shaivism? I kind of understand Advaita - how does Kashmiri Shaivism differ?

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