Any books against meditation?

Any books against meditation?
Ideally it would talk about the negative side effects and the flaws in the whole buddhist "philosophy behind meditation".

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not all meditation is buddhist meditation. Though if you want to know why buddhist meditation and ego """"death"""" is a load of horse shit then learn about the unconscious, the archetypal self, and psychic compensation. tl;dr we need feeling and imagery to be healthy, and detachment is a midwit trap that keeps people stuck

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Would you recommend Jung? Which book?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yes. Start with Man and his Symbols

        I sometimes envy those living in such ignorance as this. I suppose it’s a defense mechanism

        Same. So childish

        Buddhist doctrine.

        Cope. Pseudo-spiritualities like buddhism just claim to be above everything as a way of never dealing with criticism. Any idiot can say "you are ignorant, you are fallen, you are X", but you have to actually prove that that's the case and prove that your supposed solution works.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Buddhism and Jung are both psychic phenomenologies. Neither attain to the spiritual.
          Your arguing against Buddhism from a modern western psychological perspective is literally just a bum fight.

          >But Jung says...!

          It doesn't matter.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The spiritual is experienced psychically. Are you Edward Said or something? Decrying modern western perspectives is, again, a bullshit copout. If an approach is wrong you have to justify why.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I sometimes envy those living in such ignorance as this. I suppose it’s a defense mechanism

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Same. So childish

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I sometimes envy those living in such ignorance as this. I suppose it’s a defense mechanism

          Ignorance of what? Be specific.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Buddhist doctrine.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >ego """"death""""
      just do DMT or LSD

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Psychedelics don't kill the ego

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >t. has never used psychedelics
          lol dumb point and laugh

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Any books against breathing?
    >Ideally it would talk about the negative side effects and the flaws in breathing

    Mouthbreathers might say a couple of negatives but on the whole breathing is all around good for you

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It depends on your beliefs.
    If you are a Christian, there are some pretty good arguments against it.

    From a secular point of view, I think there has been an article recently mentioning the dangers of meditation.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I am a reddit atheist.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Nerd

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Proudly to be one.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Welp gonna have to give you a wedgie then

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Christianity has a long tradition of meditation and contemplation. It is still central to Catholic and Orthodox practice, which is a sizable majority of all Christians.

      E.g. Saint John of the Cross, the Cloud of Unknowing, the Mind's Journey Into God, etc.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >conflating the practices gypsy-infected Orthodox countries with gypsy-influenced mantra meditation and police which side with criminals against the taxpayers... with the practices of the Catholic realms where people cared enough to build something nice
        try again please

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    U. G. Krishnamurti
    Indian philosopher (1918-2007)
    ugkrishnamurti.org

    I envy you discovering this wonderful writer for the first time. And no, he's not the other Krishnamurti.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      From his wiki looks like a regular scammer idk.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        he is ofc

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the flaws in the whole buddhist "philosophy behind meditation".
    there is not since meditation is always beneficial

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Explain why I should meditate when I could sleep.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        sleep is always karmically useless
        meditation is always karmically beneficial

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          very insulting to dreams

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            dreams are useless, it's just the way it is

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            dreams are beneficial
            karmashit is useless

            and now we're at an impasse

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            are beneficial
            at best
            they are useful for hedonists

            is useless
            karma is neither useful nor useless, it's just is and the goal is to escape it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Dreams tell you which life events your subconscious most reacted to and how. They can also be fun.
            I understand a midwit of your level dismisses fun as bad because it doesn't make you look intellectual, but fun is very important in life.

            Karmashit on the other hand is an extremely hubristic concept. You are an insect compared to the vastness of the universe. To think your actions have any effect at all or that there's a whole system dedicated to weighing your actions is very arrogant and only leads to more self-centered thinking

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you're an hedonists and like all hedonists you lose your shit as soon as you hear hedonism is garbage

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Go on.
            Come on buddy, don't make me ask you to elaborate with every post. Out with it

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe "Buddhist meditation" is the wrong term to use here but there are real dangers to practicing excessive mindfulness or self-awareness, especially for those without an elder or mentor to guide them. You can end up permanently derealized and depersonalized, caught between the whole "the self is an illusion" thing and the phenomenological reality of being an individual person experiencing normal life without being able to fully orient towards one or the other. I read an article about Western meditation practitioners who ended up there due to excessively pursuing meditation retreats and Westernized Buddhist stuff without guarding themselves, but I can't find it now; the article centered around a woman who began as your typical universal-love crystal-healing type and ended up with lost time, dissociative episodes, and trouble simply thinking straight because of excessive improper self-contemplation.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      "Buddhist meditation" is the wrong term to use here but there are real dangers to practicing excessive mindfulness or self-awareness, especially for those without an elder or mentor to guide them. You can end up permanently derealized and depersonalized,
      again no. The fruit of mindfulness is rejecting cravings for sensuality and it springs up the jhanas, because the jhanas are born of seclusion from the sensory inputs. And the fruit of the jhanas is tranquility.
      All of those are positive to the meditator.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >real dangers to practicing excessive mindfulness or self-awareness, especially for those without an elder or mentor to guide them. You can end up permanently derealized and depersonalized, caught between the whole "the self is an illusion" thing and the phenomenological reality of being an individual person experiencing normal life without being able to fully orient towards one or the other.
      Interesting, I think also by doing that excessively you develop this self-awareness which is really more like a narcissism that you're the only one thinking that deeply about yourself, it becomes isolating and the idea of a mentor becomes hard to grasp because there's no way anyone can know anything more than what your "self" knows

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe "Buddhist meditation" is the wrong term to use here but there are real dangers to practicing excessive mindfulness or self-awareness, especially for those without an elder or mentor to guide them. You can end up permanently derealized and depersonalized, caught between the whole "the self is an illusion" thing and the phenomenological reality of being an individual person experiencing normal life without being able to fully orient towards one or the other. I read an article about Western meditation practitioners who ended up there due to excessively pursuing meditation retreats and Westernized Buddhist stuff without guarding themselves, but I can't find it now; the article centered around a woman who began as your typical universal-love crystal-healing type and ended up with lost time, dissociative episodes, and trouble simply thinking straight because of excessive improper self-contemplation.

        >You can end up permanently derealized and depersonalized, caught between the whole "the self is an illusion"

        There are 475 instances give or take of ANATTA in the Pali Canon. LESS than a handful are as a noun in anything remotely approaching the sense of

        >LOL LMAO NO SOUL QLIPHOTHIC CONDITIONED ARISING EMPTY VESSEL

        Post-schismatic buddha-tarianisms are of increasingly diminishing value the further they are removed from the spatio-temporal origins barring the still somewhat apophatic schools (dzogchen, chan, zen et. al., derived from JHANA: to burn/off [&away], i.e. burn the haystack to acquire the needle)

        >George Grimm. Doctrine of the Buddha.
        https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.70145

        Sectarian buddhism - Theravadan annihilationists and their politically motivated Boomer translators - is a certifiable cognithazard. The above can dispell those defective notions (Coomaraswamy's material likewise).

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Because only you and this one author from the 1920s got the Buddha right, having never even met the guy or heard his discourses, let alone be in direct lineage with him. Keep it up, Ken.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Contemplation of the self is apt to do that. Man's telos, his highest desire, is contemplation of the Divine Nature. To recognize one's finiteness and sinfulness is frightening without the light of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

      All contemplation ultimately aims to attain to Him, through the Holy Spirit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the phenomenological reality of being an individual person experiencing normal life without being able to fully orient towards one or the other
      and you promote what, falling off the wall between the internal and the external, like humpty dumpty
      that's stupid
      it's like choosing to be 100% introvert or 100% extrovert... while the truth is that to experience your chance on Earth fully, the proportion should be around 50-50%
      maybe the problem is that the matter is viewed as a continuum, a line, when in fact there are two dimensions: a bad 50-50% (which you mentioned, caught between stuff, "the pit"), and a good 50-50% (which I mentioned, the middle way)
      who knows, I'm just speculating

      great thread btw even with the streetshitters and their worshipers

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >and you promote what, falling off the wall between the internal and the external, like humpty dumpty
        Neither, the feeling itself doesn't offer an objective view of the whole situation but rather a sense of oppression from two extremes. I think the "right" option isn't so much a half-and-half mix but a hypostasis of sorts.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >squished
          quite normal for females in my observation... meaning that (quite paradoxically) it's the only thing keeping them sane, giving them power in any direction driving them crazy
          >a hypostasis of sorts
          I would like to hear your theory on that

          >it's like choosing to be 100% introvert or 100% extrovert
          https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html
          "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.

          that is pretty cool, thanks
          what schools take it as a cornerstone? it reminds me of Mahayana or Pure Land (only looked into the Tibetan version) which in turn is close to Catholicism (both Christian and Ghibelline)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it's like choosing to be 100% introvert or 100% extrovert
            https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html
            "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.

            >>that is pretty cool, thanks
            >what schools take it as a cornerstone?
            The bahyia sutta is purely buddhist and does not support Mahayana, Hinduism and whatever hippy westerners think entanglement is.

            the ''In the seen will be merely what is seen'' means there's no craving and no mental gymnastics about sensory objects (ie papanca).
            the ''In the seen will be merely what is seen'' DOES NOT mean you merge with the objects.
            The idea of merging with objects is what the brahmins think samadhi is about after they heard about meditation from the shramanas, because their whole dogma is that enlightenment is merging with their brahman.
            It's normal to think 1/ that there's a self 2/ being enlightened is not the daily experience of the natural dichotomy self-external world.
            But that's Jumping the gun and it is just a terrible idea which shows insecurity.
            It's not because there an exotic experience that it means enlightenment is reached

            Here is what samadhi is in hindusim, mahayana and whatever idiotic hippies believe meditation is about

            >Samadhi (Sanskrit: समाधि) literally means "putting together, joining, combining with, union, harmonious whole, trance".[54][55] In samadhi, when meditating on an object, only the object of awareness is present,[56] and the awareness that one is meditating disappears.[49][56][57] Samadhi is of two kinds,[58][59] Samprajnata Samadhi, with support of an object of meditation, and Asamprajnata Samadhi, without support of an object of meditation.[60]
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga)?useskin=vector#8._Samādhi

            This samadhi is not buddhist and can't lead to enlightenment.
            Sadly this wrong view was turned into the jhanas, sipped into buddhism, but thankfully not in the suttas, and only the commentaries.

            So now back to the Bhayia sutta. The equivalent phrasing is in the sutta: Malunkyaputta Sutta
            https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.095.than.html

            where this time enlightenment is explicitly about lack of passion for the seen, the heard and so on.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It means there is no passive witness behind sense perception, just perception itself

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The buddhist etymology of samadhi is sama dhi, holding evenly

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >it's like choosing to be 100% introvert or 100% extrovert
        https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html
        "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Father Seraphim Rose has a chapter on why Orthodox Christianity teaches its followers not to practice meditation in the style of Eastern religions. In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect, which in the case of meditation is the feeling of calm or in more extreme cases spiritual visions. However, being calm is not an end to itself, and in Christian spirituality it is not desirable if it impedes humility and contrition towards sins committed. Ultimately Fr. Rose sees Eastern meditation as a way to deaden a person's sensitivity to harsher spiritual truths because it will lead one to neglect practices that do not instill the feeling of calm that meditation can offer. That's not to say that one should reject this feeling absolutely, but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God will allow us to understand the spiritual states that result are the ones He knows will give us the insight most needed for our lives, not simply states that feel good.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm generally favorable to Rose but that isn't the point of meditation at all.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It is in Westernized, secularized Buddhism.

        Westerners in general have a very tinted view of Buddhism, since they tend to get it from monastics who are particularly marketing it to secular Westerners.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The sign that a practice works is not temporary experience, it is that it decreases your afflictions of attachment, aversion, and ignorance

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yeah like cutting off your dick

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          obsessed

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            that's rich coming from someone who promotes obsession (meditation)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >deaden a person's sensitivity to harsher spiritual truths
      yeah just memorize your desert drivel and spout it indiscriminately that's real spiritual practice unlike refining one's awareness of the nature of reality
      >it will lead one to neglect practices that do not instill the feeling of calm that meditation can offer
      Traditional Buddhism(s) are aware of this, why do you think Japanese temples have ugly demons standing outside? Why do you think Tibetans make garish looking paintings of monsters with garlands of skulls? Give this a lesson, see if you can intuit the spiritual message without any knowledge of the context. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfg9WMicoNw

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Those ugly demons and monsters are buddhas and bodhisattvas

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          But why are they ugly and grotesque? If our Christian apologist is correct about "eastern" meditation, they should be calming and almost bovine in their peacefulness

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Something akin to this substack post https://hollyelmore.substack.com/p/i-believed-the-hype-and-did-mindfulness-meditation-for-dumb-reasons-now-im-trying-to-reverse-the-damage
    but going deeper into the whole psychology and philosophy of it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I think I fricked my mind, it was probably a dumb idea.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I just want to be a normalgay again. Everything I tried to fix my mind just made it worse.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          what did you try?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I tried a few things, I don't claim that I'm an expert on any of them or that I did everything right.
            The first thing was actually PUA, it just turned me into a huge creep.
            Some of the PUAs were into NLP so I tried that to get over my social anxiety, so I did those techniques and went to a hypnotist a few times.
            From there people recommended Ekhart Tolle and I got into meditation. I tried different types of meditation, focus on breath, focus on a single point, focus on a feeling of love etc. I also listened to Buddhist lectures and read some sutras, especially the Diamond Sutra and the Bloodstream Sermon. I think the Diamond Sutra was the first one that messed with my mind.
            I read the blog post that was posted here and I had similar experiences, I also might have a "talent" for meditation or at least there were always strong effects. I was always able to keep my focus for a long time and even after just a few days of meditation I started to have the experience of melting away. The boundary between my body and the world started dissolving quickly. It scared me at first but I asked a few people and they told em to keep pushing because I was on my way to ego death and that was a good thing.
            I also always was interested in western philosophy but I started developing ultra sceptical beliefs, I don't even think that Descartes' cogito ergo sum is a valid argument.
            Not long ago I read Schopenhauer and some time contemplating the world as pure will, again all the perceptions became more and more unreal.
            About 6 months ago I started therapy. I did trauma therapy and there are some techniques where you talk to your younger self, try to reintegrate parts of you etc. It made me feel even more split and without a sense of self.
            I did existential therapy, it didn't really help either, made me even more scared of death.
            The last small thing were breathing exercises to increase my heart rate variability, but we measure it before and after a month of exercises and my HRV actually got worse.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't even think that Descartes' cogito ergo sum is a valid argument.
            What do you think of the following argument?
            >from raw experience one can see that phenomena are external to the awareness that experiences the phenomena
            >the awareness is something like a container that passively is filled with experiences without truly being affected by them; when no experience is present one is said to be unconscious (as in sleep)
            >all phenomena are separate from what experiences them, and this includes the experience of thinking itself
            >thus it follows that one cannot prove whether "you" are truly thinking at all or if "you" are just an unconscious passive bucket being filled with the experiences of Anon and the experience of Anon thinking for an unknowable reason

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I think it's good to start by actually observing ones mind and many western philosophers of mind seem not to do that, so I think the overall idea of the argument is good.
            To me though it seems that maybe there isn't even a container, there are just the phenomena, but I'm undecided on that.
            If there is a container though, the container itself is not spacio-temporal in my view (this is not part of your premises, but I just wanted to share my observation on this). It's not just that the container has no fixed size, the concept of size doesn't apply, if it seems that there is a size that's itself just a thought and imo an illusion.
            I think if you want the argument to be strictly logical you probably need an additional premise like "One can not prove that which is separate from the observer".

            Your view is that there is still an observer, just that the observer isn't actively thinking?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            My argument is agnostic about whether the observer exists by itself without anything to observe or not. The main point is that you can't know whether you're truly even thinking at all unless you can also prove that the awareness is somehow affected by the phenomena, or if you take it another way, you can't prove that phenomena truly belong to conscious beings.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I think I mostly agree with the conclusion. If you presented the argument to an analytic philosopher, they would probably need a bit more clarity in how some of the premises are stated, but of course I understand that it's just a IQfy post.
            I'm already sympathetic to the view so I will also not be as critical as others would be. I also don't think that you strictly need the phenomena to affect the observer, I would actually expect the causality to go the other way around but I would expect the observer to somehow change in the process and we can't observe that, so on either view we can't prove that the observer is thinking.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well yeah, I'm not presenting this as a doctrinal dissertation or something.
            Actually every time I post this argument I hope someone does refute it or prove that there's some kind of "contact" between observer and observed. It would be more interesting that way. I read some interesting things in a Peirce thread not too long ago that made me think there were solutions to the problem I've presented but my thought there is still unrefined.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Actually every time I post this argument I hope someone does refute it or prove that there's some kind of "contact" between observer and observed
            Well I wont refute it yet point out that the LIVING GOD of Abrahamic religions means just that: alive, interactive, not some Buddhist piece of rock (which is cool... but... really?!) or hindoo word-jugglery; probably Shinto or ancestor worship comes close but then other problems arise which Father Abraham has solved thousands of years ago

            Video unrelated :o)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >from raw experience one can see that phenomena are external to the awareness that experiences the phenomena
            Lots of assumptions here
            >"you" are just an unconscious passive bucket being filled with the experiences of Anon and the experience of Anon thinking for an unknowable reason
            https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epiphenomenalism/#ArgAgeMat

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Didn’t mean to link that specific section, just the entry in general. Although that section is particularly interesting

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Lots of assumptions here
            Are there? If you're capable of the sufficient self-awareness you can see for yourself how detached your sense of identity, sense-perception, etc are from simple awareness.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Are there?
            Buddhists dogmas require that awareness not be independent of anything, you can sometimes get them to admit that it's true implicitly or if you cloak your language but then when they realize the implications of what they assented to they backtrack.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Still no dogma in buddhism. All the supramundane knowledge about suffering is achievable by any disciple.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >All the supramundane knowledge about suffering is achievable by any disciple.
            Why has nobody ever done it then?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What would it look for them to have done it? Are you waiting for a biopic from Hollywood or something? God rolling up the skies like parchment?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >What would it look for them to have done it?
            Well, achieving Buddhahood is supposed to give you access to everything the Buddha had right? You would think that if this was really true then someone would have displayed the same reported abilities as Buddha like walking through walls, but nobody ever has done so, nobody has also ever shown that they have detailed memory of multiple past lives to the point of being able to narrative multiple events and conversations etc. If Buddhists really cared about spreading Buddhism and helping people overcome suffering, nothing would attract people more than proof that their supernatural attainments are real and proof of Buddhism.

            Since nobody has ever attained the same powers as Buddha, the suggestion that if you follow the Buddhist path you can gain them too along with supramundane knowledge seems like just another empty dogma that one is supposed to have religious faith in, ironically its a dogma which is supposed to make the other teachings seem like they aren't dogmas (since you can verify them, but just don't ask for proof or evidence that anyone has ever actually done so).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >why doesn't the Buddha have a dbz fight with mara over New York like in my marvel films
            Tragic

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Buddhists dogmas require that awareness not be independent of anything
            the goal of the practice is a non-intentional consciousness, a consciousness that is not about any particular object and so provides no foothold for dukkha to fester

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >About 6 months ago I started therapy. I did trauma therapy and there are some techniques where you talk to your younger self, try to reintegrate parts of you etc. It made me feel even more split and without a sense of self.
            >I did existential therapy, it didn't really help either, made me even more scared of death.
            >heart rate variability
            lol yeah those suck and are mainly to make money
            try to find a Jungian therapist and tell them that you want to pick up the pace; your nearest big city should have a directory of Jungian analysts, maybe you have one nearby

            also if you already tried Eckhart Tolle, maybe check out this video (the books mentioned are in this compilation

            https://i.imgur.com/7MhoMld.jpg

            forgot pic

            ), it's also compatible with Jungian stuff

            disclaimer: I endorse neither Rupert Spira nor Eckhart Tolle

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >any depth psychologist
            >pick up the pace
            lel

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >self-moved
            >substantial, present, subjectivity
            >lifeless things - objects with definite determinate beings - lack this
            >consequently you yourself are not such and intelligence is both non-local and non(strictly)-physical

            You are no more that which dies than that which does not die is what suffers your PARTICULAR finite travails. Try cryotherapy/cold water immersion-- memory is distributed through out the body, not just the brain organ transplatees acquiring memories of the donors is very common -- not quite so literal as octopodes' is, nonetheless this cold therapy serves to 'shake out' those monkeys on your back; it's what prey animals do in the wild under/after stress.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >organ transplatees acquiring memories of the donors is very common
            Coincidentally one of this guy's mentor's (himself a liver transplant recipient) interests

            https://i.imgur.com/enw2hgW.jpg

            pic related written by the kind of person who scientifically observes meditating monks and stuff, I am sure he's popular at reddit (haven't read the book, caveat emptor)
            also Meditations on the Tarot: it has 1 or 2 chapters on meditation and 20 or 21 on other fun stuff to do in life instead of meditating

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I just want to be a normalgay again. Everything I tried to fix my mind just made it worse.

        You mean you fricked up your mind because of meditation?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I think it was part of it but it was not the only thing. There was also therapy, I never took meds though but I'm feeling more and more that I'm losing myself. I just want to feel like I'm my body again, not that everything is empty or that my mind is made of countless parts that I need to talk to individually.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know much about it, but this place is offering remedy for meditation damage https://www.cheetahhouse.org/get-help

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks, I will check it out.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's sad how so many anons end up fricking up their brains in many of the same ways she does because they fell for the meditation meme.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I have a relative with schizophrenia.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I read this, pretty good
      I wonder if it has anything to do with commies / liberal or socialist "democrats" welcoming all kinds of immigrants for practically suicidal reasons
      almost like they'd be trained to do that, via meditation, by criminals fueled by envy and pride

      >meditation: lobotomy without the leucotome
      kinda makes me sad thinking about all those anons proud to see visual snow when in fact it was just a part of their visual cortex that they purposefully mangled for the rest of their lives...

      also reminds me of pic related (based on a 1978 book by Paddy Chayefsky) where a person really into drugs and sensory deprivation "evolves" back into a monkey-man

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        American midwit perverts like Cronenberg aren't qualified to make say anything about meditation honestly.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          anon your brain is scrambled eggs

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I just don't give a frick about urban perverts who think they can dictate what we're supposed to believe and think about anything that transcends their perverted horizon anymore. A whole century buckbroken into believing anal sex is gnostic revolution. And so you get the repentant run-off like Rose

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >a mainstream movie about something interesting suddenly becomes "dictating what you should believe and think"
          >it's centuries! centuries!
          >anal sex anon, anal sex!
          >gnostic revolution!
          lol this is your mind on buddhism

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I know I'm winning when the other guy resorts to meme arrows, means they're too pricked by what I said to think long form and post a coherent argument/funny put down. Goofy Black person.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I know I'm winning when the other guy resorts to meme arrows
            >it means that
            it means we are on 4chin anon get a grip pls you are making people sad around here 🙁

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Le ironic detached lower caps man (boy). If you're over 25 death is too good for this worldn

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >A whole century buckbroken into believing anal sex is gnostic revolution.
          lol

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This sounds like a person that was already suffering from some form of mental illness or learning disability and because the are ignorant of this they blame it on meditation.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Holly Elmore's blog
      For a quick laugh I read her shit.

      >Like yoga, I was drawn to meditation because I was already good at it— I quickly saw the benefits because for me they were easy to reach. I was really flexible, so I quickly got into serious yoga practice. I was very observant, introspective, disciplined, and my senses were very sensitive, so I quickly “made progress” in mindfulness and meditation. I probably started at a level of mindfulness (or at least those aspects of mindfulness) which is a desirable endpoint for others.

      giiiirrrllllllllllll is a wonder-kid and can achieve everything she wants and nothing bad will happen to her 🙂

      >(Whenever anybody raises the harms of mindfulness practice, inevitably they are told they are doing it wrong. This accusation is unfalsifiable, of course, and we don’t really know if the people with good results were doing it “right,” either. I’m sure I didn’t do the best job on the whole. All I can say is that I’m an educated and capable person who sincerely tried my best to learn to meditate, seeking instruction from experts and reading copiously about it along with other supportive practices, and in doing that I sustained the harms I'll enumerate below.

      educated giiiiiiiirrrrrlllll can do no wrong lol. also the
      >This accusation is unfalsifiable
      is of course false since mindfulness has a precise methodology, a precise result and it's binary you either get the result or you don't. If you dont, you fricked up along the line.

      >But when you attack your sense of self and try to train your brain not to build it up, you can lose things like proprioception and self-recognition.

      monks never lose their proprioception when they spend their life doing mindfulness or meditation

      the lack of proprioception is called Deafferentation and you can watch videos of people suffering from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMEROPOK6v8

      >So I find myself in a position where I want to undo a lot of the things I did through meditation. How would one do that?

      mindfulness is conditioned, like everything in samsara, so the way to lose the fruit of mindfulness is literally to stop doing it and go back to being a normalgay, which is the default life for all humans.

      >Harm: loss of concepts

      mindfulness is about brute forcing right view to get rid of wrong view, this has nothing to do with the brain
      the sutta is https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html#discourse

      >I’m naturally quite neurotic and highly sensitive to threat,
      lol

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >I became more reactive in part just from noticing more stimuli, but also because of common Buddhist doctrines that encourage you not to distinguish between internal and external occurrences. All of your perception is you, and boundaries between you and other people or the environment, or ultimately between anything and anything else, are ephemeral and imagined (according to two of the three marks of existence, non-self and impermanence). again false
        the external-internal divide is acknowledging the qualities of whatever is internal is found in the external and vice versa. it's not saying what's internal is exactly what's external, that's there's no boundary.

        >I still endorse a version of the view that "you" are actually your whole world, not just the avatar in the world

        yeah none of this is buddhism

        for people who want to know a bit more about this internal-external divide, analayo has an article on it trying to make sens of it
        >Once Again on External Mindfulness
        https://www.dharma.org/wp-content/uploads/OnceAgainExternal-1.pdf

        Funnily enough he mentions the idiotic fad to identify as the sense objects kek

        >Lin (2019, p. 355) argued that a way of practice following
        his interpretation “would be an effective way of teaching a
        practitioner how one habitually and arbitrarily takes certain
        phenomena as self and other phenomena as related to self.”
        To become aware of such habitual and arbitrary tendencies
        just requires observing those that are already there. It does not necessitate intentionally arousing identification. In fact, it
        would be difficult to find a passage in the early discourses
        which recommends the intentional cultivation of identification
        with the objects of meditative experience. Although the idea
        of intentionally promoting identification (in order to then
        counter it) would probably find resonance in some strands of
        Buddhist modernism, it does involve a departure from the
        approach evident in the early texts.

        the rest of her texts is garbage about visual snow and hearing stuff.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      She didn't get past the first hurdle.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        why? because she's still alive? lol

        >I became more reactive in part just from noticing more stimuli, but also because of common Buddhist doctrines that encourage you not to distinguish between internal and external occurrences. All of your perception is you, and boundaries between you and other people or the environment, or ultimately between anything and anything else, are ephemeral and imagined (according to two of the three marks of existence, non-self and impermanence). again false
        the external-internal divide is acknowledging the qualities of whatever is internal is found in the external and vice versa. it's not saying what's internal is exactly what's external, that's there's no boundary.

        >I still endorse a version of the view that "you" are actually your whole world, not just the avatar in the world

        yeah none of this is buddhism

        for people who want to know a bit more about this internal-external divide, analayo has an article on it trying to make sens of it
        >Once Again on External Mindfulness
        https://www.dharma.org/wp-content/uploads/OnceAgainExternal-1.pdf

        Funnily enough he mentions the idiotic fad to identify as the sense objects kek

        >Lin (2019, p. 355) argued that a way of practice following
        his interpretation “would be an effective way of teaching a
        practitioner how one habitually and arbitrarily takes certain
        phenomena as self and other phenomena as related to self.”
        To become aware of such habitual and arbitrary tendencies
        just requires observing those that are already there. It does not necessitate intentionally arousing identification. In fact, it
        would be difficult to find a passage in the early discourses
        which recommends the intentional cultivation of identification
        with the objects of meditative experience. Although the idea
        of intentionally promoting identification (in order to then
        counter it) would probably find resonance in some strands of
        Buddhist modernism, it does involve a departure from the
        approach evident in the early texts.

        the rest of her texts is garbage about visual snow and hearing stuff.

        >Holly Elmore's blog
        For a quick laugh I read her shit.

        >Like yoga, I was drawn to meditation because I was already good at it— I quickly saw the benefits because for me they were easy to reach. I was really flexible, so I quickly got into serious yoga practice. I was very observant, introspective, disciplined, and my senses were very sensitive, so I quickly “made progress” in mindfulness and meditation. I probably started at a level of mindfulness (or at least those aspects of mindfulness) which is a desirable endpoint for others.

        giiiirrrllllllllllll is a wonder-kid and can achieve everything she wants and nothing bad will happen to her 🙂

        >(Whenever anybody raises the harms of mindfulness practice, inevitably they are told they are doing it wrong. This accusation is unfalsifiable, of course, and we don’t really know if the people with good results were doing it “right,” either. I’m sure I didn’t do the best job on the whole. All I can say is that I’m an educated and capable person who sincerely tried my best to learn to meditate, seeking instruction from experts and reading copiously about it along with other supportive practices, and in doing that I sustained the harms I'll enumerate below.

        educated giiiiiiiirrrrrlllll can do no wrong lol. also the
        >This accusation is unfalsifiable
        is of course false since mindfulness has a precise methodology, a precise result and it's binary you either get the result or you don't. If you dont, you fricked up along the line.

        >But when you attack your sense of self and try to train your brain not to build it up, you can lose things like proprioception and self-recognition.

        monks never lose their proprioception when they spend their life doing mindfulness or meditation

        the lack of proprioception is called Deafferentation and you can watch videos of people suffering from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMEROPOK6v8

        >So I find myself in a position where I want to undo a lot of the things I did through meditation. How would one do that?

        mindfulness is conditioned, like everything in samsara, so the way to lose the fruit of mindfulness is literally to stop doing it and go back to being a normalgay, which is the default life for all humans.

        >Harm: loss of concepts

        mindfulness is about brute forcing right view to get rid of wrong view, this has nothing to do with the brain
        the sutta is https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html#discourse

        >I’m naturally quite neurotic and highly sensitive to threat,
        lol

        >based on my own experience, mindfulness meditation seems to force the personal unconscious, which is not exactly a good thing
        mindfulness is not a meditation, it's only paying attention to sensory inputs, and it has nothing do with the unconscious

        [...]
        >western woman talks about meditation on her grifting platform

        lol, what could go wrong... exactly like her
        > Silent meditation retreats under scrutiny after ‘free spirit’ artist, 22, killed herself during 10-day stay
        https://nypost.com/2024/03/04/us-news/silent-meditation-retreats-under-scrutiny-after-suicide-of-aspiring-artist-22-comes-to-light/

        and like her
        >'She didn't know what was real': Did 10-day meditation retreat trigger woman's suicide?
        https://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/06/york_county_suicide_megan_vogt.html

        [...]
        >almost like they'd be trained to do that, via meditation, by criminals fueled by envy and pride
        atheist know frick all about meditation to begin with

        [...]
        >In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect,
        that's false and dumb

        [...]
        >However, being calm is not an end to itself,
        nobody said this

        [...]
        >but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God
        prayers are mental gymnastics which have no benefits even to the person praying lol

        >hey guys I cut off my dick and it was the best decision I did in my entire life!!!!!!!!11111
        seems like you got some serious skin in the game anon, frothing at the mouth while compiling punching that poor keyboard... did you really hurt your brain that bad

        homosexual shit aside, meditation can be as simple as taking the time, clearing your mind and then focusing on something. like a story you're working on.
        many artists will suggest setting time aside, maybe an hour a day. up to 30 minutes to clear your mind, and at least 30 minutes to really think, problem solve, reflect, whatever.
        no chanting, breathing exercise, etc. just taking it fricking easy.
        and, if it's what you need to hear, all scientific research confirms the benefits of this.

        then again, anyone that would actually need this explained to them likely have severe mental issues.

        >then again, anyone that would actually need this explained to them likely have severe mental issues.
        yeah they are called "women" and they need protection, care, and love instead of the right to vote (i.e. exposed to all kinds of manipulation and advertising for the most shady causes pushed by the most ruthless slime) or all kinds of witchcraft (including meditation)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Christians are moronic.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      very interesting article. I think this writer is some oc(p)d person though as per https://mhollyelmoreblog.wordpress.com/2019/05/02/scrupulosity-my-eagxboston-2019-lightning-talk/

      It is a good cautionary tale, but the likelihood of running into all of the issues this woman did is not very likely for the average person who doesn't do everything with the maximum intensity they can manage

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I also suffer from the same symptoms, and I'll tell you unequivocally without a doubt: if these practices are intensifying the jenga game of perceptions and rituals that is the OCD mind, you're doing it wrong

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Do you mean that you suffer from the meditation induced symptoms, or the oc(p)d symptoms, or both?

          To me, it would seem that meditation would be useful in dealing with obsessions and compulsions. I sometimes get intrusive negative thoughts and i find meditation to calm me down and give me more space to deal with that shit.

          But i can see that getting into meditation with an obsession of doing it "right" could be super counter-productive

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the OCD symptoms. meditation should absolutely work to alleviate them.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            what do you mean "should"? what do you base this on? did they work for you or not? also what did you try
            >being OCD and having zero intellectual rigor
            ?!

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Compulsions pressure you to act on them. Becoming aware of this pressure is going to naturally diminish it, so long as you don't give into it. Meditation has nothing to do with becoming an even more tyrannical hall monitor of your own mind

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    pic related written by the kind of person who scientifically observes meditating monks and stuff, I am sure he's popular at reddit (haven't read the book, caveat emptor)
    also Meditations on the Tarot: it has 1 or 2 chapters on meditation and 20 or 21 on other fun stuff to do in life instead of meditating

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Evan Thompson wrote The Embodied Mind, Mind in Life, and Self - No Self tho. At this point he is the most influential Buddhist.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    also for any Catholic check out pic related with "approved" meditations
    it has one book from the 12th century, two from the 14th, one from the 15th, two from the 16th, and one from the 17th (the first one, start with that ~ the author was a cook in a monastery, akin to the author of "Instructions for the Tenzo")
    even if they sometimes approach Eastern spirituality, I find it a privilege and a honor to meditate in the same manner as those from the eras I mentioned

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      forgot pic

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The desert monks meditated

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      the fact that they found scratched on the wall of a cell (cave) "Jesus have mercy on me!" is not proof
      but nevertheless I appreciate them, and may they have peace and help us in our struggles, amen

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >An elder said: “This is the life of the monk: work, obedience, meditation, not judging, not backbiting, not grumbling, for it is written: ‘O you that love the Lord, see that you hate the thing that is evil’ [Ps 96:10]. The life of a monk is to have nothing to do with that which is unjust, not to see evil things with one’s eyes, not to get involved in nor to hear alien matters, not to use one’s hands to snatch but rather to give; not to have overweening pride in his heart nor wicked thoughts in his mind and not to fill one’s
        belly but rather to act with discretion in all things: in such things is the monk.”

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          why don't you practice what you preach and make the world a better place, more dignified, by staying away from the Internet?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            All these people who were mindbroken by an awareness of their own selves without distraction were weak. I wish they'd have the humility and yes, wisdom to admit their weakness

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >babbles like a schizophrenic
            >calls others mindbroken
            lol

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you're too weak to withstand your own unconscious or too stupid to understand the mechanics of your own mind, the fault lies with you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This poster must think he is the smartest man in the universe.
            How stupid must we be to him, not being able to und

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            erstand the mechanics of our own minds.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Save that for the imbeciles who believe the fault lies with an ancient practice. Nothing wrong with being weak or stupid. The first sign of maturity is accepting responsibility for your deficiencies, and working through them.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous
          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hiding behind the skirts of logical fallacy instead of just admitting you're too weak to do the work. It's like failing a bench press so you shit talk the principle of resistance. moron

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >being a mindbroken slave is pride!
            >anon you are to weak to be a slave!
            >you'll NEVER be like me
            >...
            >anon please be like me I'll suck your dick
            meditation in a nutshell

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >a mainstream movie about something interesting suddenly becomes "dictating what you should believe and think"
            >it's centuries! centuries!
            >anal sex anon, anal sex!
            >gnostic revolution!
            lol this is your mind on buddhism

            based. I thought I was the only one here suspicious of meditation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the scary part is that I know what he's talking about
            >The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            not all ancient practices were created equal
            just look at India with a multi-millennial tradition of male homosexuality
            or Africans still practicing cannibalism today, just like they did 10, 100, 1000, 10000 years ago

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if you don't jump off this 11 story building and fly, you ain't worth shit
            what the frick is this, kindergarden?

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've never noticed any effects of meditation, good or bad.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Perhaps that is because you don't meditate?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I sit quietly with my eyes closed and focus on my breathing. There could be something I'm missing.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Have you read anything about Buddhism?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      also Cormac McCarthy described the personal unconscious as a valet who wants the best of you... based on my own experience, mindfulness meditation seems to force the personal unconscious, which is not exactly a good thing
      the youtube series following is a very gentle but rigurous introduction into such issues, and would probably recommend it to anyone before considering meditating

      yeah in small doses (like self-remembering from time to time, when doing menial tasks etc) it can strengthen the brain and makes you more aware... but it's a slippery slope, just like spanking can lead to child abuse

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Spanking your child IS child abuse, anon.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          what if it was not my child? :3

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >based on my own experience, mindfulness meditation seems to force the personal unconscious, which is not exactly a good thing
        mindfulness is not a meditation, it's only paying attention to sensory inputs, and it has nothing do with the unconscious

        Something akin to this substack post https://hollyelmore.substack.com/p/i-believed-the-hype-and-did-mindfulness-meditation-for-dumb-reasons-now-im-trying-to-reverse-the-damage
        but going deeper into the whole psychology and philosophy of it.

        >western woman talks about meditation on her grifting platform

        lol, what could go wrong... exactly like her
        > Silent meditation retreats under scrutiny after ‘free spirit’ artist, 22, killed herself during 10-day stay
        https://nypost.com/2024/03/04/us-news/silent-meditation-retreats-under-scrutiny-after-suicide-of-aspiring-artist-22-comes-to-light/

        and like her
        >'She didn't know what was real': Did 10-day meditation retreat trigger woman's suicide?
        https://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/06/york_county_suicide_megan_vogt.html

        https://i.imgur.com/Ofmmyi0.jpg

        I read this, pretty good
        I wonder if it has anything to do with commies / liberal or socialist "democrats" welcoming all kinds of immigrants for practically suicidal reasons
        almost like they'd be trained to do that, via meditation, by criminals fueled by envy and pride

        >meditation: lobotomy without the leucotome
        kinda makes me sad thinking about all those anons proud to see visual snow when in fact it was just a part of their visual cortex that they purposefully mangled for the rest of their lives...

        also reminds me of pic related (based on a 1978 book by Paddy Chayefsky) where a person really into drugs and sensory deprivation "evolves" back into a monkey-man

        >almost like they'd be trained to do that, via meditation, by criminals fueled by envy and pride
        atheist know frick all about meditation to begin with

        Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Father Seraphim Rose has a chapter on why Orthodox Christianity teaches its followers not to practice meditation in the style of Eastern religions. In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect, which in the case of meditation is the feeling of calm or in more extreme cases spiritual visions. However, being calm is not an end to itself, and in Christian spirituality it is not desirable if it impedes humility and contrition towards sins committed. Ultimately Fr. Rose sees Eastern meditation as a way to deaden a person's sensitivity to harsher spiritual truths because it will lead one to neglect practices that do not instill the feeling of calm that meditation can offer. That's not to say that one should reject this feeling absolutely, but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God will allow us to understand the spiritual states that result are the ones He knows will give us the insight most needed for our lives, not simply states that feel good.

        >In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect,
        that's false and dumb

        Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Father Seraphim Rose has a chapter on why Orthodox Christianity teaches its followers not to practice meditation in the style of Eastern religions. In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect, which in the case of meditation is the feeling of calm or in more extreme cases spiritual visions. However, being calm is not an end to itself, and in Christian spirituality it is not desirable if it impedes humility and contrition towards sins committed. Ultimately Fr. Rose sees Eastern meditation as a way to deaden a person's sensitivity to harsher spiritual truths because it will lead one to neglect practices that do not instill the feeling of calm that meditation can offer. That's not to say that one should reject this feeling absolutely, but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God will allow us to understand the spiritual states that result are the ones He knows will give us the insight most needed for our lives, not simply states that feel good.

        >However, being calm is not an end to itself,
        nobody said this

        Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Father Seraphim Rose has a chapter on why Orthodox Christianity teaches its followers not to practice meditation in the style of Eastern religions. In short, the Eastern approach of "try it and you will see that it works" implies a value judgment where something is "true" because it has a pleasing effect, which in the case of meditation is the feeling of calm or in more extreme cases spiritual visions. However, being calm is not an end to itself, and in Christian spirituality it is not desirable if it impedes humility and contrition towards sins committed. Ultimately Fr. Rose sees Eastern meditation as a way to deaden a person's sensitivity to harsher spiritual truths because it will lead one to neglect practices that do not instill the feeling of calm that meditation can offer. That's not to say that one should reject this feeling absolutely, but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God will allow us to understand the spiritual states that result are the ones He knows will give us the insight most needed for our lives, not simply states that feel good.

        >but one should instead dedicate themselves to prayer not for specific feelings being produced, but because showing humility before God
        prayers are mental gymnastics which have no benefits even to the person praying lol

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Holly Elmore's blog
          For a quick laugh I read her shit.

          >Like yoga, I was drawn to meditation because I was already good at it— I quickly saw the benefits because for me they were easy to reach. I was really flexible, so I quickly got into serious yoga practice. I was very observant, introspective, disciplined, and my senses were very sensitive, so I quickly “made progress” in mindfulness and meditation. I probably started at a level of mindfulness (or at least those aspects of mindfulness) which is a desirable endpoint for others.

          giiiirrrllllllllllll is a wonder-kid and can achieve everything she wants and nothing bad will happen to her 🙂

          >(Whenever anybody raises the harms of mindfulness practice, inevitably they are told they are doing it wrong. This accusation is unfalsifiable, of course, and we don’t really know if the people with good results were doing it “right,” either. I’m sure I didn’t do the best job on the whole. All I can say is that I’m an educated and capable person who sincerely tried my best to learn to meditate, seeking instruction from experts and reading copiously about it along with other supportive practices, and in doing that I sustained the harms I'll enumerate below.

          educated giiiiiiiirrrrrlllll can do no wrong lol. also the
          >This accusation is unfalsifiable
          is of course false since mindfulness has a precise methodology, a precise result and it's binary you either get the result or you don't. If you dont, you fricked up along the line.

          >But when you attack your sense of self and try to train your brain not to build it up, you can lose things like proprioception and self-recognition.

          monks never lose their proprioception when they spend their life doing mindfulness or meditation

          the lack of proprioception is called Deafferentation and you can watch videos of people suffering from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMEROPOK6v8

          >So I find myself in a position where I want to undo a lot of the things I did through meditation. How would one do that?

          mindfulness is conditioned, like everything in samsara, so the way to lose the fruit of mindfulness is literally to stop doing it and go back to being a normalgay, which is the default life for all humans.

          >Harm: loss of concepts

          mindfulness is about brute forcing right view to get rid of wrong view, this has nothing to do with the brain
          the sutta is https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html#discourse

          >I’m naturally quite neurotic and highly sensitive to threat,
          lol

          Good post. Pretty white girls like this reek of self-importance. Always these temporarily embarrassed prodigies. Nyanamoli specifically rejects "tip of your nose" mindfulness, too, and describes proper meditation as a type of knowledge, not a bare presencing

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah this whole parimukha issue went far too far for what it is.
            Is there some chronological account by a monk about this, like a recap on the matter, to see who claims what?

            what do you think of this thread ?
            https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=5636

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's really only a risk of negative side effects if you incorrectly meditate on a nihilistic conception of no-self and emptiness. Practicing basic shamatha to calm the mind is perfectly safe.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Meditation is fricking with your mind. Fricking with your mind will always have side effects.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Single pointed focus is a natural capacity of the mind, cultivating it is fricking with your mind

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think cultivating single pointed focus is a good thing. It's not useful for anything. To achieve anything, your attention needs to constantly change and develop. Especially in activities requiring long attention span. Long attention span means you're capable of focusing on a lot of adjacent things (including new adjacent things that come along). If you focused solely on a single point you will never get anywhere.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          indeed
          it's like people spending hours, weeks, months, years to develop visualization skills
          there is nothing to develop, you can dream can't you? why reinvent the wheel?
          better just trust Lord Jesus (whose return will happen before the end of the year)

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    op feels like he should meditate but is too lazy to do it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Take a look at

      Something akin to this substack post https://hollyelmore.substack.com/p/i-believed-the-hype-and-did-mindfulness-meditation-for-dumb-reasons-now-im-trying-to-reverse-the-damage
      but going deeper into the whole psychology and philosophy of it.

      or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdmvoX1RZWA
      There are legitimate people suffering right now because of all the meditation they did. The negative effects are real.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What do you mean by "meditation"?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Dont tell me you are one of those anxious to tell OP that "you are doing it wrong!!"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The term "meditation" applies to so many different practices that discussing "the dangers of meditation" is completely meaningless. Are you talking about Zen shikantaza? Gradual training in shamatha as described by Kamalashila? Burmese vipassana? Tantric visualization? Mindfulness? Dzogchen non-meditation? Someone hearing the phrase "not-self" and depersonalizing due to fixating on the idea they don't exist?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Each of those involve modifying your brain / mind by repetitive practices (yoga)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Literally everything we do involves modifying our mind with repetitive practices

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I was talking about doing it to yourself... the (you) was implied in "modifyig your brain"
            But yeah I agree with you, taxes are theft and child abuse is routine 🙁

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Whenever you read or learn anything you are modifying your mind yourself.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Periphyseon.

    Meditatio /=/ Mneme much less Theurgy.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Jung or Evola or somebody probably talked about how Western man should not engage with Eastern practices since we do not really understand it. (Western's concept of buddhism and meditation is nothing like what Easterners originally conceived). Something about inactivity and passivity as well, a lot of Westerners are focused on meditation and not actually focused on what actions they are taking in life

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's an ex-new ager who covered the negative effects and referenced a lot of studies on YT, but I don't think he's written anything about it.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know why you'd be against meditation. Establishing a regular practice is the best thing I've ever done. It has improved my ability to focus, reduced anxiety and depression, and really just increased my overall well-being. I was a skeptic for a long time but seeing the results dispelled all my doubts.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's only the godhead and abstractions reified in the godhead.

    No semantic content exists.

    If you do go down the meditation path, don't fear what happens.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    homosexual shit aside, meditation can be as simple as taking the time, clearing your mind and then focusing on something. like a story you're working on.
    many artists will suggest setting time aside, maybe an hour a day. up to 30 minutes to clear your mind, and at least 30 minutes to really think, problem solve, reflect, whatever.
    no chanting, breathing exercise, etc. just taking it fricking easy.
    and, if it's what you need to hear, all scientific research confirms the benefits of this.

    then again, anyone that would actually need this explained to them likely have severe mental issues.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Any books against meditation?
    >Ideally it would talk about the negative side effects and the flaws in the whole buddhist "philosophy behind meditation".
    Not necessarily a negative side effect or a flaw but I saw it in a newspaper so it's pretty IQfy
    Long story short, I regularly read a periodical aimed at feds & spooks in my Balkan country (30% of children are ethnically gypsy and the rest behave like gypsies too) and it had an article saying something like "does crime bother you? don't worry, just meditate!"
    All those scum pushing "equality" and stuff undeniably have some relationship to eastern meditation (yoga/tantra)

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Did your wife send off your life savings to a Nigerian prince, married your lawyer, and is now suing you?
    >Did your daughter get pregnant with a homeless gypsy with mental moronation and a nasty drug habit?
    >Did you taking bribe cause a building to burn down, resulting in the death of more than a dozen hard working men?
    >Did you see another bloody underage girl in the dumpster behind the Chinese restaurant?
    DON'T WORRY JUST MEDITATE
    >What? Meditation doesn't work?!
    JUST have a nice day LUL

    tl;dr whenever you hear of "meditation", look for the crime... it's the new "follow the money"

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      what an insane conclusion. you are incredibly fricking stupid.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >you so stupid anon
        >stupid stupid stupid
        thank you for confirming the theory, criminal

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      how do you know people who meditate will be in those situations to begin with?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        rearn engrish

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          okay so people in those situation will never be interested in meditation to begin with. You don't belong here, You have to go back

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            if you rearned engrish, step 2 is to work on reading comprehension
            if your brain is not too mutilated from all that mutilation and moral juggling 😉

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            i accept your concession, you can go back now

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            oh, I understand now, you must be a woman
            an ugly aged had filled with cope, to be exact

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            okay you can go back

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    all religion is fake. If you want true spirituality (not religion), take some mescaline or lsd and go on a forest trip

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if I want to have a spiritual experience but don't have access to illegal drugs?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kek every time. Atheists just can't stop being obsessed with their drugs. The sad part if that you will never go beyond drugs and you will never be good at mediation due to clinging to material crutches. brainlets fails to understand that they value psychedelics only because they value materialism.
      And because they now have a view opposite to what they believed before, it means their view is truer. They fail to think outside the box.

      So the psychedelic experience is a doorway which leads to a hallway which leads to only what you want to find within yourself.

      In other terms, a drug is nothing but a high-yield (fast but not perfect) technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully in your opinion. If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not an atheist. I believe the cosmos is permeated by a cosmic conciousness, of which we are part of, and that love and change are the only constants.

        What if I want to have a spiritual experience but don't have access to illegal drugs?

        use the darknet to buy some.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >How do I have a spiritual experience without drugs?
          >Just use drugs

          Disappointing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            he said don't have access. Be he does, he has the dark web.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >darkweb
            Getting scammed or arrested isn't a spiritual experience.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >brainlets fails to understand that they value psychedelics only because they value materialism.
        I forgot to say that I do not value materialism, in fact, it's the opposite.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the sad part will be when they are a ghost and are like
        >wtf how do I do drugs now?! reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          why would I be a ghost. At death everyone returns to the cosmic conciousness

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            because you have no drugs :o)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the attraction to drugs is normal because 'high' is how we're meant to feel. we don't feel that good because we have a million deficiencies. a natural lifestyle and natural diet is like drugs without the side effects.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully
        Not even that, drugs do not produce insight, just a different kind of delusion

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          How do you know that?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Any temporary experience is not insight

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ok. And what is insight?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Knowledge of the nature of reality, dependent origination

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, and how do you gain that for an absolute certainty?

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    robert graves said tranquility is of no poetic use
    >Felicity and pain always alternate. [The muse] serves as a focus and challenge. She gives happiness. Here I use the English language precisely—hap: happening. She provides hap; provides happening.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    shut the frick up frank

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why do people believe that there is an unconscious? It sounds completely illogical

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What the frick
      Please say sike

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It sounds completely illogical. Something that you are both aware and not aware of. Something that only serves as a way to excuse your weaknesess

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That is a very jungian conclusion, in an ironic sense. You would tie the concept of an unconscious to weakness. An unconscious conclusion, not logical.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not sure I get what you mean. I think that people believe in an unconscious because it gives them a deterministic view of themselves and makes an excuse for some weakness, when it's not just making stuff up that is. Other than that, i think it is co pletely illogical to think that you (consciousness) have something inside your consciousness that you are somehow not conscious of, a repository of repressed things which regulated by a highly efficient censor (which you'd think would need to be aware of the things it censors)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I mean that you could just as well have said the unconscious is illogical, because some people could be very courageous and confident with a good unconscious, through no product of their conscious mind. I mean that you must have pulled that from somewhere, received it, from the unconscious.

            > you (consciousness) have something inside your consciousness that you are somehow not conscious of
            I disagree because my conscious attention is not to be sold cheaply, it's budgeted if you will and incomplete ideas and suggestions will gestate far away from my attention and be brought forth when they are needed in front of my attention. The very borders of my psychic reality as I experience it is in turn not chosen by my conscious attention but by my unconscious, I have no conscious control over the years-long trend of my moods, my changing ideological and political allegiances, the backdrop of my existence found in my past experiences, society, people around me, values, beliefs and principles, ever-changing. The shape of the vessel my water takes you could say is determined by the unconscious and the water itself is my consciousness.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I disagree because my conscious attention is not to be sold cheaply, it's budgeted if you will and incomplete ideas and suggestions will gestate far away from my attention and be brought forth when they are needed in front of my attention.
            I don't think you can liken consciousness to anything that you could budget in any way. I don't think the unconscious exists. I think it is illogical to believe that it exists and that it is largely ill-defined. The very idea that there is something else that you cannot be conscious of and yet know about, that works independently of your consciousness as if it had a mind of its own, is pure nonsense and at best just serves as a way to deprive people of any responsibility.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What do you think attention is? What happens to what is outside of your attention?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What do you think "you" are? Do you think that since you are not aware of what is happening behind you then that must mean that there exists something inside your mind that you are simply unaware of? an arbitrary line to draw.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I am my body and my mind. I am what is around me, material and societal reality as experienced through my senses and through my mind. I don't have conscious control of the movements in my gut, or primal emotions like fear.
            I don't have control of what goes on in most parts of my brain, I can only nudge in the direction I want my unconscious to get influenced.

            I dont mean to say attention of material, spatial things. What happens cognitively when you are not entertaining an idea. Your consciousness then is not all encompassing, rather shines a light on a part of reality and the intersection of reality with that light becomes your attention. I am not talking about material, spatial things here. I'm talking about your direct minute experience this very second, all of it at once.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I am my body and my mind. I am what is around me, material and societal reality as experienced through my senses and through my mind
            sound very sure of yourself. must be very aware of it.
            >or primal emotions like fear.
            how do you know? Do you not have any reason to be scared? In either case, you are aware of it.
            > I can only nudge in the direction I want my unconscious to get influenced.
            How can you nudge anything that you are not aware of? Why are you speaking of the unconscious as if you are conscious of it? Sounds illogical.
            >Your consciousness then is not all encompassing, rather shines a light on a part of reality and the intersection of reality with that light becomes your attention
            sure, but there is nothing really beyond that about yourself. At best, this just leads one to determinism and as I said, deprivation of any and all responsibility. I believe that you really are only what you are aware of. There is no unconscious repressing something. everything you repress is something that you are already conscious of.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, why I do fear that we disagree on everything at once and I have no hope at all of finding common ground.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Do you really need to find common ground? Does that mean you are willing to compromise on something or do you just want me to renounce my denial of the unconscious?
            In either case, we've both already thrown our cents. Now we can just go our seperate ways and ponder over each other's words or something

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not at all. Something we both agree on, a connecting edge between graphs, to expand on, for you to understand me better and I you. We reason differently, have different opinions, and are set in our habits such that we transmit incomplete information of our thought process. You say it's illogical. I don't see a mathematical proof, surely it's not that advanced but you don't transmit exactly your thinking and neither do I and thats one twentieth of my issues, all in all we can't really connect anywhere at all.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't see a mathematical proof
            Neither do I for an unconscious mind. The only one I can think of are behavioral studies, but who's to say those aren't simply influenced by older ideas about an unconscious and what is really happening isn't a conscious process of stimuli that simply isn't immediately accessible to introspection? Maybe instead of conscious and unconscious it's all just one giant continuum of awareness?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Would that continuum of awareness have different intensities? How would it look like, architecturally, concerning the cognitive realm of ideas?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            One would expect that, but what I think would be most important is that it would still all count as being inside your mind, whereas anything that you are not aware of, like the scenery behind you, is simply not in your mind as nothing can be inside it without your being aware of it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            unless you are thinking of the scenery behind you, but that would probably be a particular place on the continuum. It's a more phenomenological approach, I guess.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I will return to your second message.

            It sounds completely illogical. Something that you are both aware and not aware of. Something that only serves as a way to excuse your weaknesess

            > Something that you are both aware and not aware of.
            This incompatible dichotomy doesn't exist. You are not aware of the unconscious. You are unaware of it. It interacts with what you are aware of, however, which is why it belongs to you and not a different person.

            >I am my body and my mind. I am what is around me, material and societal reality as experienced through my senses and through my mind
            sound very sure of yourself. must be very aware of it.
            >or primal emotions like fear.
            how do you know? Do you not have any reason to be scared? In either case, you are aware of it.
            > I can only nudge in the direction I want my unconscious to get influenced.
            How can you nudge anything that you are not aware of? Why are you speaking of the unconscious as if you are conscious of it? Sounds illogical.
            >Your consciousness then is not all encompassing, rather shines a light on a part of reality and the intersection of reality with that light becomes your attention
            sure, but there is nothing really beyond that about yourself. At best, this just leads one to determinism and as I said, deprivation of any and all responsibility. I believe that you really are only what you are aware of. There is no unconscious repressing something. everything you repress is something that you are already conscious of.

            >how do you know? Do you not have any reason to be scared? In either case, you are aware of it.
            This eventual reason would be an external force, e g a bear rushing toward me, and I would have no choice over the fear, and its activation would be handled by faster, primitive parts of the brain that my attention can't interact with or reach to activate without stimuli like I would lift a finger or think of a red apple.

            > How can you nudge anything that you are not aware of? Why are you speaking of the unconscious as if you are conscious of it?

            It feeds of my experiences and surroundings like a watchful angel, sharpening my intuition, interacting with that of which I am aware. I am not directly aware of it.

            > sure, but there is nothing really beyond that about yourself
            This is false. You have not experienced enough in life to know it as such.

            > At best, this just leads one to determinism
            This doesn't follow.

            >I believe that you really are only what you are aware of
            This ignores a lot

            >There is no unconscious repressing something
            No one mentioned repressing, another jungian influence. Your view of the unconscious is as a withholding force, rather than an additive.

            Back to this post.
            Have two balls in your minds eye. One blue, one red.
            Where is the idea of the green ball while youre doing that? Is it stored as a complete idea in the low intensity continuum and youre already aware of it? What of a pink elephant on rollerskates in Maui wearing a diamond necklace? You are surely not aware of this, for you would store all possible knowledge to be aware of everything even slightly, anywhere at all until I conjure the Idea for you, maybe you are just aware of the constituent concepts that are combined.

            And when you summon these concepts into high awareness, is it your personality that influences how you engage with concepts? And this personality, are you also aware of all of it? Perhaps you at some point accept principles which are now on the low awareness spectrum. But would you accept that not all of our personalities are conscious choices? That we are influenced by our milieu? Then your personality was perhaps dictated 500 years ago by a human, or nature through any sort of manner. Is this also in the awareness, then you must have prescience or omniscience, no it can't be known until exposed to experience, crashing into the walls of life to see how you react, then you find out who you are, and your unconscious becomes more visible. Then you can influence it with your attention, only once life has exposed it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >This incompatible dichotomy doesn't exist. You are not aware of the unconscious. You are unaware of it
            Then how do you know it exists?
            >This eventual reason would be an external force, e g a bear rushing toward me, and I would have no choice over the fear, and its activation would be handled by faster, primitive parts of the brain that my attention can't interact with or reach to activate without stimuli like I would lift a finger or think of a red apple.
            Or it could be that you know what the bear running toward ypu entails and that makes you scared. No need to draw weird conclusions about how ypu think your brain works or "activates" some emotion which only serves to deprive you of agency.
            >It feeds of my experiences and surroundings like a watchful angel, sharpening my intuition, interacting with that of which I am aware. I am not directly aware of it.
            Or not, you could just be mistaken. It could just be all awareness.
            >This is false. You have not experienced enough in life to know it as such.
            Nice non-argument. But it is an illogical belief so I cannot blame you.
            >This doesn't follow.
            It does. Saying that all your choices are determined by some invisible impulses and unconscious clearly implies that you do not actually have any choice in the matter or causal potency. The source is always something else.

            >Have two balls in your minds eye. One blue, one red.
            Where is the idea of the green ball while youre doing that? Is it stored as a complete idea in the low intensity continuum and youre already aware of it? What of a pink elephant on rollerskates in Maui wearing a diamond necklace? You are surely not aware of this, for you would store all possible knowledge to be aware of everything even slightly, anywhere at all until I conjure the Idea for you, maybe you are just aware of the constituent concepts that are combined.
            I'd say I was aware of all of those things the moment I read them in your post. Not sure at all what you are trying to get at.
            >But would you accept that not all of our personalities are conscious choices? That we are influenced by our milieu?
            I'd say that you ultimately choose how to respond to your mileu. There will be no "but the socio-economic factors made me do it!" Or whatever.
            >Then your personality was perhaps dictated 500 years ago by a human, or nature through any sort of manner.
            According to you, sure. But I don't think so. There is nothing beneath the surface. What you think you see is that which you have put there. For indeed, how could you ever trust anything that some unconscious tells you with any certainty? How can you trust whatever "nature" you think you have augured in the entrails of your brain when you wouldn't even trust a company to audit itself. Nah, the surface is more than likely all there is. What you see is what you get. It only ever becomes you once you actually assent to it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > Then how do you know it exists?

            You mistake the contents for the borders. It is not in my direct awareness, but I know of its existence because it influences the contents of my direct awareness.

            This should not be a difficult concept. And you will have to stop all other discussion to deal with the fundamental early things first.

            >Or it could be that you know what the bear running toward ypu entails and that makes you scared. No need to draw weird conclusions about how ypu think your brain works or "activates" some emotion which only serves to deprive you of agency.
            No, I provided extra physical examples. It should be very obvious that you can't spontaneously give yourself any emotion or sensation. No, you can't make yourself afraid, and knowing of the bears danger is still external stimuli because of the existence of the bear. Remove the bear, you don't have control of fear.

            These are very foundational things, I tire of handholding simple reasoning.

            > Or not, you could just be mistaken. It could just be all awareness
            This is unsound arguing, meaningless.

            >Nice non-argument. But it is an illogical belief so I cannot blame you.
            I provided explicit explanations for where I disagree, to be helpful in giving you stuff to grab, not intending to write an essay. My previous post was already more lengthy than all of yours, this is a very weird thing to point out at this point especially with how the previous quote right above is the same thing you deplore.

            >I'd say I was aware of all of those things the moment I read them in your post. Not sure at all what you are trying to get at.
            You are a literal NPC, you don't comprehend anything I can't hold your hand any longer I'm sorry.

            Same thing with the rest, non-sequiturs endlessly. Toodeloo.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Saying Buddhism is dangerous because of negative effects of "mindfulness" is like saying Christianity is dangerous because some Appalachian snake handlers get bit

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's unlikely you'll find books on this topic. You might find published psychology/psychiatric/neurology articles though.

    Some meditation methods can trigger psychotic episodes if you go too deep too soon, without personalized instructions or if you have some predisposition.

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So I know OP requested material counter to meditation but I figured I'd throw my two cents in just to add some perspective. A lot of what I see people perceiving to be negatives from meditation are really still their own mental hangups they have yet to resolve. To me, meditation is just sitting with your thoughts without identifying with them or being caught up in them too much, but it could also be attending to the senses or visualization. It's really just becoming a passive observe. Usually when people say I felt xyz negative thing because of meditating, to me those are things that were already latent in that person's mind that they haven't integrated yet. I haven't experienced it yet but my idea of "ego death" is unconsciousness. Yes, in this world you need this poorly defined container word we call "ego" to function, a sense of self I guess. That being said, it can range on a spectrum from poorly to well integrated. A person who has a better integrated "ego" may not find themselves bristling against every perceived slight against them, or at least have a better awareness about themselves and their reactions. I mention this because I feel like meditation helps with this process. Yes, there are also forms of depersonalization and derealization that can occur, but again I believe the negative results of these experiences (insights into reality really) are one's mental reactions to them (this shouldn't be/ clinging to the old perspective). I don't know about more extreme cases if a person loses the ability to function and what all that entails. All in all I'd say that the benefits for me so far have been more positive than negative, and negative only in relation to my response to it. I would also argue that the advent of phones and electronics has only diminished our capacity for this natural process of the mind when not perpetually being stimulated. Overall I see some pretty dogmatic opinions in here but the ironic thing is that is the hallmark of a more egocentric personality. Someone who is more at peace through letting go probably wouldn't even see the point in arguing a case because the phenomenological experience is self evident to the experiencer so the desire to prove their case intellectually diminishes. Anyway, I understand that I myself am arguing a case, that I'm also labeling things as positive or negative/ better and worse. But that's where I'm at, maybe eventually I won't care about any of this.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.lionsroar.com/in-exclusive-first-interview-mingyur-rinpoche-reveals-what-happened-during-his-four-years-as-a-wandering-yogi/

    It was actually a near-death experience I had in Kushinagar, the holy place where the Buddha died, not long after I started my retreat. I got very sick with vomiting and diarrhea, and one morning my health was so bad that I was sure I was going to die.

    When I got sick, it felt like I went through some kind of wall of solid attachment to my body, my comfort, my robes, and even the idea of Mingyur Rinpoche. I slowly let go, let go, let go, let go. In the end, I even let go of myself. I thought, “If I’m going to die, okay. If I’m going to die, no problem.” At that moment, I didn’t have any fear.

    I had some kind of dissolution, as they call it in the texts, and lost touch with my physical body altogether. Then I had a wonderful experience. There was no thought, no emotion, no concept, no subject or object. Mind was clear and wakeful, like a blue sky with the sun shining, transparent and all-pervasive. It’s very, very difficult to describe. It cannot really be put into words.

    Then at a certain point I had the thought, “Okay, this is not the time for me to die.” This was somehow related to compassion mind. Then I could feel my body again and I opened my eyes. I stood up to get some water and suddenly became unconscious and collapsed. I woke up in a local clinic with a glucose drip in my arm. The next day, I recovered and left the clinic.

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Some Channel about israelites practicing the dhamma
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtp_ONAMuUbtdBy1fDDgWHw

    עמותת 'אפאמאדה' תומכת בלימוד ובפיתוח דרך הבודהא, הדהאמה והסנגהא ל-'רחק מכל רע, עשה טוב וטהר את ליבך' (דהאמהפאדה 183) על פי גישתו של המורה אג'אהן צ'ה ובהשראתו; תוך זיקה לחברה הישראלית ולתרבות היהודית ברוח 'סור מרע ועשה טוב, בקש שלום ורדפהו' (תהלים לד).
    appamada-israel.org

    Appamāda Association supports the study and cultivation of the path of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha of ‘Not doing any evil, to be committed to the good, and to purify one’s mind’ (Dhp. 183), following Ajahn Chah’s approach and through his inspiration.
    This is in relation to the Israeli society and the israeli culture in the spirit of ‘Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it’ (Psalms 34).

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    MFers on IQfy be like "yeah uhm is there discourse about how sitting still is actually bad for you"

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The state of thai buddhism lol
    >The Dhammakaya Temple, one of Thailand's largest and most controversial Buddhist sects, has become a target of the country's military government.

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