are there any?

are there any IQfy guides to get into plato's dialogues?

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  1. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    dont

  2. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gregory Sadler, my homie.

  3. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Plato reading orders:

    The tetralogies of Thrasyllus:

    1) Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phædo
    2) Cratylus, Theætetus, Sophist, Statesman
    3) Parmenides, Philebus, Symposium, Phædrus
    4) Alcibiades, 2nd Alcibiades, Hipparchus, Rival Lovers
    5) Theages, Charmides, Laches, Lysis
    6) Euthydemus, Protagoras, Gorgias, Meno
    7) Hippias major, Hippias minor, Ion, Menexenus
    8) Clitophon, Republic, Timæus, Critias
    9) Minos, Laws, Epinomis, [Letters]

    The Neo-Platonic reading order, set up by Iamblichus:

    Alcibiades Major, Gorgias, Phaedo, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesman, Phaedrus, Symposium, Philebus, Parmenides, Timaeus

    Al-Farabi's suggested order of composition/inquiry:

    Alcibiades Major, Theaetetus, Philebus, Protagoras, Meno, Euthyphro, Cratylus, Ion, Gorgias, Sophist, Euthydemus, Parmenides, Alcibiades Minor, Hipparchus, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Symposium, Theages, Rival Lovers, Charmides, Laches, Lysis, Phaedrus, Crito, Apology of Socrates, Phaedo, Republic, Timaeus, Laws, Critias, Epinomis, Menexenus, Letters

    There's the more recent (developed within the last century and a half) order, based on an assumption of the order of Plato's supposed development:

    Early: Apology (of Socrates), Charmides, Crito, Euthyphro, Gorgias, Hippias Minor, Hippias Major, Ion, Laches, Lysis, Protagoras
    Middle/Transitional : Cratylus, Euthydemus, Meno, Parmenides, Phaedo, Phaedrus, Republic, Symposium,
    Middle/Late : Theaetetus
    Late : Critias, Sophist, Statesman, Timaeus , Philebus, Laws

    Charles Kahn's order:

    Ion, Hippias Minor, Gorgias, Laches, Meno, Charmides, Protagoras, Lysis, Symposium, Republic, Phaedrus, Parmenides, Theaetetus, Sophist, Philebus, Timaeus, Statesman, Laws

    Catherine Zuckert's order:

    Laws, Epinomis, Parmenides, Protagoras, Alcibiades Major, Alcibiades Minor, Charmides, Laches, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Symposium, Phaedrus, Ion, Clitophon, Republic, Philebus, Timaeus, Critias, Theages, Euthydemus, Lysis, Gorgias, Meno, Theaetetus, Euthyphro, Cratylus, Sophist, Statesman, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Menexenus

    Christopher Bruell's suggested introductory order:

    Hipparchus, Minos, Alcibiades Major, Alcibiades Minor, Laches, Euthydemus, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Theages, Euthyphro, Apology of Socrates, Ion, Meno, Cleitophon, Menexenus, Crito

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      And William Altman's reading order:

      Protagoras, Alcibiades Major, Alcibiades Minor, Rival Lovers, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Ion, Menexenus, Symposium, Lysis, Euthydemus, Laches, Charmides, Gorgias, Theages, Meno, Cleitophon, Republic, Timaeus, Critias, Philebus, Phaedrus, Parmenides, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Euthyphro, Sophist, Statesman, Apology, Hipparchus, Minos, Crito, Laws, Epinomis, Phaedo

      Personally, I would suggest downloading Debra Nails's The People of Plato, since it gives historical backgrounds to every figure in a way that helps make sense of allusions to their actions (so, for example, it's important that Phaedrus as a figure in the dialogues discusses the Mysteries of Eros, but is also historically prosecuted for blaspheming the Mysteries, or that the dialogue on virtue, Meno, is conducted with a man who sold out the Greeks during a campaign in Persia). As for my own preference in orders, I would try Bruell's order, since the dialogues are there arranged in a way where the topics shed light on each other, plus you'll get god practice with Plato while being able to knock out a lot of shorter dialogues.

  4. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Fundamental Intros
    Elias' Intro to Philosophy
    David’s Intro to Philosophy
    Olympiodorus Intro to Logic (must read before Isagoge)

    Commentaries on Aristotle’s Categories
    Ammonius' On Aristotle’s Categories
    Porphyry's Isagoge

    Aristotle's Categories to sharpen your reasoning instrument (let no one ignorant of geometry enter)

    Then you can begin Plato with Alcibiades II (although not actually written by Plato, lays out everything explicitly without hiding behind myths, metaphors, and poetic language etc, hence considered the best intro to his dialogues)

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      I am interested in this order; what's next after Alcibiades II ?

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Depends on what your interested in. For the Neoplatonist, the crowning israeliteels out of all the Platonic dialogues are Timaeus and Parmenides. For the politically minded, Laws and The Republic. For the artistic, Ion, Phaedrus, Symposium, etc. For the logical, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, and Statesman.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Platonic philosophy is a perfect circle. You can enter from any direction and enter the web.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      what do geometry and aristotle's categories have to do with plato

  5. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    you have to read the real greeks first.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Most of the stuff Plato references is lost. However Op should read Homer, the tragedians and Aristophanes, Hippocrates. All of these Plato read and referenced in his work. That’s before even beginning.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        There is actually a lot of material from 6th through early 4th century philosophers. You have to go back.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          There’s fragments. You can’t really read the books of Anaxagoras which Socrates references in Apology or the Phaedo and neither can you read “the treatise on Salt” referenced by Pausanias in the Symposium though I’d really want to.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Cope. There are extensive fragments from many contemporary and earlier philosophers, some of whom are mentioned by name by Plato (Parmenides, Zeno, and Melissus, for example) and others unnamed but who tackled similar topics and would have been familiar to Plato. Then pile on top of that the thousands of pages of secondary source material on them.

            Nobody should pick up the works of Plato or any other 4th century athenoid without being extremely familiar with the genuinely ancient greek philosophers first.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            They exist in fragments and their crude, dogmatic nature does not lend well to their ideas. Heraclitus had a book excoriating other philosophers by name for not achieving the heights of his keen intellect. Your presocratics are useless. Cope.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >n-no, they're crude... dogmatic...

            You're cracking, Platonoid. You made bad life decisions but it's not too late to take up real philosophy.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Well that is not so marvellous, but I once came across a book by a wise man in which salt was given amazing praise for its usefulness

          We need our ancient salt books. Hidden, ancient knowledge…

  6. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    tbh Plato's works are written such that there really isn't much need for a reading order unlike Aristotle or other philosophers. You can read them chronologically and be perfectly fine, I usually recommend republic first since it encapsulates a number of his major ideas and style.

  7. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    THRASYLLAN READING ORDER- Look it up, m f er

    Seriously, I am getting ticked off at the exact same beginner questions constantly. Thrasyllus compiled Plato’s dialogues into a reading order meant to be evocative of the tragedies of Aeschylus and Sophocles (three dramas and a lighter satyr play). Just look up “Thrasyllus reading order of Plato”

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Listed right here:

      Plato reading orders:

      The tetralogies of Thrasyllus:

      1) Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phædo
      2) Cratylus, Theætetus, Sophist, Statesman
      3) Parmenides, Philebus, Symposium, Phædrus
      4) Alcibiades, 2nd Alcibiades, Hipparchus, Rival Lovers
      5) Theages, Charmides, Laches, Lysis
      6) Euthydemus, Protagoras, Gorgias, Meno
      7) Hippias major, Hippias minor, Ion, Menexenus
      8) Clitophon, Republic, Timæus, Critias
      9) Minos, Laws, Epinomis, [Letters]

      The Neo-Platonic reading order, set up by Iamblichus:

      Alcibiades Major, Gorgias, Phaedo, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesman, Phaedrus, Symposium, Philebus, Parmenides, Timaeus

      Al-Farabi's suggested order of composition/inquiry:

      Alcibiades Major, Theaetetus, Philebus, Protagoras, Meno, Euthyphro, Cratylus, Ion, Gorgias, Sophist, Euthydemus, Parmenides, Alcibiades Minor, Hipparchus, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Symposium, Theages, Rival Lovers, Charmides, Laches, Lysis, Phaedrus, Crito, Apology of Socrates, Phaedo, Republic, Timaeus, Laws, Critias, Epinomis, Menexenus, Letters

      There's the more recent (developed within the last century and a half) order, based on an assumption of the order of Plato's supposed development:

      Early: Apology (of Socrates), Charmides, Crito, Euthyphro, Gorgias, Hippias Minor, Hippias Major, Ion, Laches, Lysis, Protagoras
      Middle/Transitional : Cratylus, Euthydemus, Meno, Parmenides, Phaedo, Phaedrus, Republic, Symposium,
      Middle/Late : Theaetetus
      Late : Critias, Sophist, Statesman, Timaeus , Philebus, Laws

      Charles Kahn's order:

      Ion, Hippias Minor, Gorgias, Laches, Meno, Charmides, Protagoras, Lysis, Symposium, Republic, Phaedrus, Parmenides, Theaetetus, Sophist, Philebus, Timaeus, Statesman, Laws

      Catherine Zuckert's order:

      Laws, Epinomis, Parmenides, Protagoras, Alcibiades Major, Alcibiades Minor, Charmides, Laches, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Symposium, Phaedrus, Ion, Clitophon, Republic, Philebus, Timaeus, Critias, Theages, Euthydemus, Lysis, Gorgias, Meno, Theaetetus, Euthyphro, Cratylus, Sophist, Statesman, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Menexenus

      Christopher Bruell's suggested introductory order:

      Hipparchus, Minos, Alcibiades Major, Alcibiades Minor, Laches, Euthydemus, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Theages, Euthyphro, Apology of Socrates, Ion, Meno, Cleitophon, Menexenus, Crito

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Thrasyllus lived 300 yrs after Plato and he lived in a different country (Egypt) but his has usually been considered definitive for the past 2 K years so it should be the one op goes with. His is also the most comprehensive as it is in a dramatic format which makes it like watching a movie. Ie each theme progresses through the four dialogues compiled together in a fun format

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