christsisters...our response?

christsisters...our response?

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  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    FREE WILL! OUR ABILITY TO CHOOSE OUR OWN ACTIONS AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM! THE REASON WHY WE AREN'T ROBOTS! THE REASON WHY JESUS CREATED US!

    Next question

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      False attribution
      Issue actually presented by Mackie
      Refuted by Plantinga's free will defense

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >could god have allowed for freedom to accept or reject his will but without the freedom to reject his will
        This is just moronic semantics and like asking if God could create a square circle. It's just meaninglessness masquerading as an argument.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Isn't heaven pretty much where their is no evil, but also free will?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Heaven is where you'd go once you overcame evil, that doesn't negate evil existing in any form ever as the chart is describing.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            So in heaven, you can still go to hell?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Not really. No one can conceive of a square circle, but everyone can conceive of a world where everyone had free will but no one performed evil.

    • 3 months ago
      Ο Σολιταίρ

      False attribution
      Issue actually presented by Mackie
      Refuted by Plantinga's free will defense

      [...]

      >free will
      Right. But you're a Calvinist, so you don't believe in any of that stuff...

      everytime this gaylord argument is posted, everyone forgets that "goodness" isn't up for you to decide.
      Or at least, since you're not omniscient, and allegedly God is*, you are not in a position (if you are honestly considering God) to determine that the reality we exist in isn't "good"

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >god decides what is good
        Therefore, goodness is arbitrary

        • 3 months ago
          Ο Σολιταίρ

          Yeah I guess God is the arbiter or that.
          What's the issue?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Most christians are uncomfortable with the notion that goodness is arbitrarily decided by god, and all the implications that follow.

          • 3 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >Most christians are uncomfortable with the notion that goodness is arbitrarily decided by god, and all the implications that follow.

            uhhh, tough luck for them?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, I think 'bad' is just a word humans made up for stuff they don't like.
        This is only a problem for Christians who believe there are bad things in the world

        • 3 months ago
          Ο Σολιταίρ

          >Yeah, I think 'bad' is just a word humans made up for stuff they don't like.
          This is only a problem for Christians who believe there are bad things in the world

          Are you just not understanding that the ultimate being* "arbitrarily" deciding something is not the same thing has humans "arbitrarily" deciding things?
          Humans are not omniscient; therefore, in every decision they make there are deficiencies.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, I agree with all that.
            Problem of evil goes away, if don't grant that there's such a thing as evil

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            The ultimate being* "arbitrarily" deciding something and humans "arbitrarily" deciding things is the same thing because they are both arbitrary. Do you not know what arbitrary means?

          • 3 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >on the basis of personal whim
            the implication being that God's whims are much better informed than ours.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            What could possibility inform God as to how to arbitrarily define "good" ?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >better informed
            In what way? You just argued that god created morality. What existed previously to inform god about how morality should be created?

          • 3 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >better informed
            >In what way?
            well, he knows everything, for one, and you don't.
            are you shifting your argument to
            >yes, the Christian God isn't actually illogical
            >I just don't like him.
            ?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I just don't like him
            This is the only atheist argument.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >He knows everything
            Did he know what morality is, implying that morality already existed outside of god, or was there no morality to know of outside of god, implying that god created morality arbitrarily? That's the point.

          • 3 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >or was there no morality to know of outside of god, implying that god created morality arbitrarily?
            If this were the case, would you be forced to admit you just don't personally like what God decided?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            No? you don't need to personally like or dislike arbitrary commands to acknowledge that they are arbitrary.
            >what god decided

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            So basically you are saying that even if God were real; you consider yourself to be fundamentally the same sort of entity?
            Gotta get that sorted out, bud.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, the arbitrary moral dictations of an immortal and a mortal are both fundamentally arbitrary. You are the first person to be confused by this notion.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don’t think the only difference between theoretical “God” and man is one of mortality…
            We’ve asserted an omniscient, omnipotent God. Certainly this exceeds “mere” immortality…

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're still confused? Do you need a food analogy to explain what arbitrary means or...

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, I have a preference to not drown babies

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >rather than any reason or system
            The implication being that god's whims are either not arbitrary after all, or they are equally as informed as our own whims.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >informed
            That means it's not arbitrary, moron.

  2. 3 months ago
    Dirk

    False attribution
    Issue actually presented by Mackie
    Refuted by Plantinga's free will defense

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >free will
      Right. But you're a Calvinist, so you don't believe in any of that stuff...

      • 3 months ago
        Dirk

        Plantinga taught at Calvin University

        [...]

        Read the fwd

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Post the relevant excerpt which addresses

          [...]

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Plantinga taught at Calvin University
          Ok. lol
          Why are you telling me this?

          Calvinists don't believe libertarian free will is true (the type of free will that is assumed in Plantinga's defence)
          The name of a University Plantinga taught at, doesn't change Calvinist doctrine.

          Think through the stuff you're saying

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      The problem of evil has been debated for over two millenia, dirt.

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous
  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Evil only exists if God exists. If there is no God, moral concepts such as good and evil become mere human preferences. This exact thread has been answered thousands of times and you aren't fooling anyone.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      What was the answer?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        The first half of the post. Good lord.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Then God is not good.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Way to miss the point.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            What was the point?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't have the patience to explain it a third time.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Then God is not good.
            You might find him 'not-good' because in utilitarian paradigm he made you suffer, but that's actually irrelevant for him to be good.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Evil only exist because God wants it to

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >morality is just god's preferences

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I have better morality than God. Prove me wrong.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand the arguments.
    Seems like no one can define "good" and "evil".
    Or it's more like the definition is based on different ethical systems.
    Epicure was a proto-utilitarian before utilitarianism even existed. However, ethical discourse at the time was dominated by virtue ethics. God had the virtue of 'goodness' (these words literaly have the same root).
    It doesn't really matter how many people are killed by god himself or whether he know or cares about 'evil'. Everything he has done is good. Period.
    And I'm not even a religious person.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Everything he has done is good. period.
      Unperiod. The euthyphro dilemma.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Morality is perfectly explained by naturalism. Without morals, we would not feel the need to help the weaker members of our species e.g. kids and we wouldn't want to work together as much, so survival chances would be much lower. Why the frick would there need to be objective morality, this argument has always seemed like pure cope.

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