Could the Romans have feasibly reached the Americas?

Could the Romans have feasibly reached the Americas? Could they have, if they had any prior knowledge of the Americas' existence?

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    i always wondered what the people before columbus or erickson thought was beyond the atlantic

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >could they

    by all accounts and archeological evidence they at the very least made it to South America. In fact there is quite a bit of evidence they actually may have had a fort or 2 in North America.

    This doesn't mean there was some full fledged Roman colony in the US, but they had a presence.

    Shit gets weird when you start moving away from mainstream trash and look at the evidence they desperately try to hide/ignore

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >by all accounts and archeological evidence they at the very least made it to South America. In fact there is quite a bit of evidence they actually may have had a fort or 2 in North America.
      [citation needed]

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        a simple google search will show tons of stuff. You don't this exists because you have never been taught real history.

        Let me guess, you're atheist, but whole heartedly believe the mainstream chronology, a chronology based 100% on the bible. I love when atheists quote dates from the mainstream not knowing these are bible based. Funny shit

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          a simple google search will show tons of stuff.
          So simple, you can't even be bothered to give the citation during your autistic screech

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >i could simply drop the link in two clicks
          >but instead ill get pissy and defensive
          lol, lmao

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >a simple google search will show tons of stuff.
            So post one of the links you read. it sounds interesting and as you said, there's tons of stuff to go through.

            NTA but even I know about the Roman ceramics found off the coast of Brazil decades ago. Guanabara Bay, is just the start. It caused so much controversy among huemonkey nationalists that the Brazilian authorities literally banned underwater archaeology altogether.

            From NYT, 1985.
            >A DISPUTE between the Brazilian Navy and an American marine archeologist has led Brazil to bar the diver from entering the country and to place a ban on all underwater exploration.

            >The dispute involves Robert Marx, a Florida author and treasure hunter, who asserts that the Brazilian Navy dumped a thick layer of silt on the remains of a Roman vessel that he discovered inside Rio de Janeiro's bay.

            >Mr. Marx's expeditions received wide press coverage in Brazil, with some reports asserting that he was perpetrating a hoax and was defaming the name of the Portuguese discoverers of Brazil.

            This is truly entry level material and has been in the public consciousness for nearly 40 years, but oh let's pretend it's so hard to find and we have no idea what you're talking about.

            The reason he's so dismissive of the constant skeptoid IFLS presence on this board is because despite years of different anons posting diverse evidence of pre-Colombian contact between old and new worlds in many different threads, the damage control people always pretend as if they've never seen it.

            Frankly, I commend his reluctance to post sources here. I have myself seen too many sources disappear from seach engine results already as a result of broadened exposure and the deliberate shittification of relevant search engine monopoly.

            One thing anon has wrong is attributing the many old stone structures the early American colonists found and wrote about, in some cases even mapping them out or illustrating them, to the Romans. There's ample proof that they were constructed by the native American Indians, but it's a shame that these writings I speak of have been made so inaccessible to the public.

        • 6 days ago
          Radiochan

          Could they? Maybe.
          The thing is they had no knowledge at all of the existence so it would have been random ships going way off course and having no idea how to get home, like if the Phoenicians somehow got blown off course while rounding the Horn and ended up in Antarctica.

          Bible has nothing to do with any of this bro
          All it is is Brasilians larping

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >they had no knowledge
            >there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
            t. Plato, Timaeus

          • 6 days ago
            Radiochan

            You've never actually read Timaeus. It's a dialogue / morality play about the fantasy kingdom that totally existed to illustrate Platonic ideals.

            There's no actual evidence that the ancients knew about it. It would have shown up in travelogs, it would have shown up in descriptions of the world, it would have shown up on maps. Not even the Phoenicians seemed to know about it.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            The Sargasso Sea may have been known to earlier mariners, as the poem Ora Maritima by the late 4th-century author Rufus Festus Avienius describes a portion of the Atlantic as being covered with seaweed, citing a now-lost account by 5th-century BC Carthaginian navigator Himilco.[2]

            oops...

          • 6 days ago
            Radiochan

            >may have been known
            Doesn't mean it was.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >The Sargasso Sea may have been known to earlier mariners, as the poem Ora Maritima by the late 4th-century author Rufus Festus Avienius describes a portion of the Atlantic as being covered with seaweed, citing a now-lost account by 5th-century BC Carthaginian navigator Himilco.[2]
            >oops...

            You were NOT supposed to see that!!! delet

          • 6 days ago
            Radiochan

            the very next sentence is
            >However, modern scholars consider this unlikely.[9]

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Appeals to authority are fallacious arguments, anon.

          • 6 days ago
            Radiochan

            It is when the authorities are Classical scholars.

            Phonecians were famous for outright lying to people about their trade routes, to keep them secret and monopolize.
            If they had discovered new lands to the west they would have told nobody about it.

            According to Diodorus Siculus:

            [...] in the deep off Africa is an island of considerable size...fruitful, much of it mountainous.... Through it flow navigable rivers....The Phoenicians had discovered it by accident after having planted many colonies throughout Africa.

            >Working with computer-enhanced images of gold coins minted in the Punic/Phoenician city in North Africa of Carthage between 350 and 320 BC, (please see sketch of coin right and where the world map is supposed to have been inscribed) McMenamin has interpreted a series of designs appearing on these coins, the meaning of which has long puzzled scholars. McMenamin believes the designs represent a map of the ancient world, including the area surrounding the Mediterranean Sea and the land mass representing the Americas.

            McMenamin's analysis is something I saw a long time ago, and combined with the entry of Diodorus of Sicily and another Brazilian discovery in the 19th century I'll post later I think it's somewhat convincing.

            So your source for Phoenicians reaching the New World is more like "trust me bro" and when the Phoenicians and later scholars said they got their riches from Africa, they were totally lying and instead if was a 2 month difficult journey there and back from America?

            19 1 But now that we have discussed what relates to the islands which lie within the Pillars of Heracles, we shall give an account of those which are in the ocean. For there lies out in the deep off Libya an island1 of considerable size, and situated as it is in the ocean it is distant from Libya a voyage of a number of days to the west. Its land is fruitful, much of it being mountainous and not a little being a level plain of surpassing beauty. 2 Through it flow navigable rivers which are used for irrigation, and the island contains many parks planted with trees of every variety and gardens in great multitudes which are traversed by streams of sweet water; on it also are private villas of costly construction, and throughout the gardens banqueting houses have been constructed in a setting of flowers, and in them the inhabitants pass their time during the summer season, since the land supplies in abundance everything which contributes to enjoyment and luxury. 3 The mountainous part of the island is covered with dense thickets of great extent and with fruit-trees of every variety, and, inviting men to life among the mountains, it has cozy glens and springs in great number. ... 4 There is also excellent hunting of every manner of beast and wild animal, and the inhabitants, being well supplied with this game at their feasts, lack of nothing which pertains to luxury and extravagance; for in fact the sea which washes the shore of the island contains a multitude of fish, since the character of the ocean is such that it abounds throughout its extent with fish of every variety. 5 And, speaking generally, the climate of the island is so altogether mild that it produces in abundance the fruits of the trees and the other seasonal fruits for the larger part of the year, so that it would appear that the island, because of its exceptional felicity, were a dwelling-place of a race of gods and not of men.

            Again, you've never actually read it. It's a morality dialog about Platonic ideals and it's also outright stated that the "Egyptian source" Plato got it from was made up to get the Greeks, who were massive Egyptaboos, to read it.

          • 6 days ago
            Radiochan

            Thought you were quoting from Timaeus. Also, why could that have been the Azores?

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Azores don't meet the description, though I did consider it. It's not one big island, it's an archipelago. Moreover, they were supposedly uninhabited until Europeans arrived.

            Phonecians were famous for outright lying to people about their trade routes, to keep them secret and monopolize.
            If they had discovered new lands to the west they would have told nobody about it.

            According to Diodorus Siculus:

            [...] in the deep off Africa is an island of considerable size...fruitful, much of it mountainous.... Through it flow navigable rivers....The Phoenicians had discovered it by accident after having planted many colonies throughout Africa.

            >Working with computer-enhanced images of gold coins minted in the Punic/Phoenician city in North Africa of Carthage between 350 and 320 BC, (please see sketch of coin right and where the world map is supposed to have been inscribed) McMenamin has interpreted a series of designs appearing on these coins, the meaning of which has long puzzled scholars. McMenamin believes the designs represent a map of the ancient world, including the area surrounding the Mediterranean Sea and the land mass representing the Americas.

            McMenamin's analysis is something I saw a long time ago, and combined with the entry of Diodorus of Sicily and another Brazilian discovery in the 19th century I'll post later I think it's somewhat convincing.

            In 1872, four pieces of a stone tablet inscribed with strange characters were found on a Brazilian plantation near the Paraiba River. A copy of the inscription was sent by the owner of the property to Dr. Ladislau Netto, director of the Museu Nacional in Rio de Janeiro. After studying the document carefully, Dr. Netto announced to a startled world that the inscription recorded the arrival of Phoenician mariners in Brazil centuries before Christ. Unfortunately, an Indian rebellion broke out in the Paraiba region that same year and in the ensuing confusion, the plantation in question was never located and the stone itself was never recovered. A copy of the inscription was sent to the eminent French historian and philologist Ernest Renan who declared it a fake, and Netto was ridiculed by the academic establishment of his day.

            Renan based his conclusion on the fact that the text contained certain grammatical errors and incorrect expressions that forced him to question its authenticity. A century later, an American scholar, Cyrus H. Gordon, revisited the Paraiba inscription and arrived at the opposite conclusion. The inscription, he claims, contains grammatical forms and expressions that have been recently discovered and were unknown to linguistic experts of the 19th century like Renan and Netto. Therefore, he contends, the document could not have been a fake. Gordon's translation reads, in part:

            "We are sons of Canaan from Sidon...We sailed from Ezion-geber into the Red Sea and voyaged with ten ships. We were at sea together for two years around Africa but were separated by the hand of Baal and we were no longer with our companions. So we have come here, twelve men and three women...may the exalted gods and goddesses favor us."

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >A century later, an American scholar, Cyrus H. Gordon, revisited the Paraiba inscription and arrived at the opposite conclusion

            Same guy who thought the Bat Creek slab was real, same guy who thought the Los Lunas inscription was real. Why are Mormons and other goys obsessed with israelites discovering America

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            orly

            well can you demonstrate that his argument in *this case* is flawed, rather than relying on trashing him because of unrelated topics?

            >Jews
            typical damage control

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Sure. In this case, a guy who famously supported other known hoaxes also supported the authenticity of this tablet which is not physically present, cannot be located and cannot be traced to an actual site. It conveniently fits with the narrative that ancient-Jews visited the New World which is supported by Gordon.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            so how did the forgers know about grammatical features of Phoenician that wouldn't be discovered for decades after the fact?

            Why do you discount him when he has a PhD in the field of ancient Near Eastern languages and you don't?

            >Gordon is well known for his books on Ugaritic, the ancient language of 14th century (BC/BCE) coastal Syria, which were first published 1940 and he played a key role in deciphering that language. For teaching purposes, his three volume set, Ugaritic Textbook [2] and the works of the Hungarian scholar, Joseph Aistleitner, were for a long time the only worthy works available.[3]

            Sounds like you don't have an argument. Sorry, better luck next time damage control anon.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            it correctly dates meltwaterpulse 1B as a mayor flooding event. it describes a vast continent on the other side of the atlantic
            >it's just coincidence
            >its just a political fantasy for a moral lecture
            the egyptian knew. some greeks learned about it from them. the phoenicians went there. the romans went there. the celts went there.
            it was probably very sporadic and really no big surprise that very few written clues survived until today. especially if stuff like

            [...]

            NTA but even I know about the Roman ceramics found off the coast of Brazil decades ago. Guanabara Bay, is just the start. It caused so much controversy among huemonkey nationalists that the Brazilian authorities literally banned underwater archaeology altogether.

            From NYT, 1985.
            >A DISPUTE between the Brazilian Navy and an American marine archeologist has led Brazil to bar the diver from entering the country and to place a ban on all underwater exploration.

            >The dispute involves Robert Marx, a Florida author and treasure hunter, who asserts that the Brazilian Navy dumped a thick layer of silt on the remains of a Roman vessel that he discovered inside Rio de Janeiro's bay.

            >Mr. Marx's expeditions received wide press coverage in Brazil, with some reports asserting that he was perpetrating a hoax and was defaming the name of the Portuguese discoverers of Brazil.

            This is truly entry level material and has been in the public consciousness for nearly 40 years, but oh let's pretend it's so hard to find and we have no idea what you're talking about.

            The reason he's so dismissive of the constant skeptoid IFLS presence on this board is because despite years of different anons posting diverse evidence of pre-Colombian contact between old and new worlds in many different threads, the damage control people always pretend as if they've never seen it.

            Frankly, I commend his reluctance to post sources here. I have myself seen too many sources disappear from seach engine results already as a result of broadened exposure and the deliberate shittification of relevant search engine monopoly.

            One thing anon has wrong is attributing the many old stone structures the early American colonists found and wrote about, in some cases even mapping them out or illustrating them, to the Romans. There's ample proof that they were constructed by the native American Indians, but it's a shame that these writings I speak of have been made so inaccessible to the public.

            results in an instant chimpouts and denial. I would really not be surprised if some maps or writings are locked away in some museum vault or private collection

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >a simple google search will show tons of stuff.
          So post one of the links you read. it sounds interesting and as you said, there's tons of stuff to go through.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Could the Romans have feasibly reached the China? Could they have, if they had any prior knowledge of the China' existence?

    Does the Roman silk ring any bells? How did Romances acquire silk?

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    No.
    Iberians reached the continent becauss they developed ships capable of sailing the core atlantic ocean, ie, caravelas, and the travel still was dangerous as frick. The Spanish galleon was specifically made the galleons for a safe travel across the Atlantic.

    Chinese, Vikings and Polynesians are the only ones that could have had reached America before Iberians. Cultures around the Mediterranean made ships for the soft and peaceful Mediterranean waters.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Correct take.

    • 7 days ago
      Anonymous

      someone hasn't heard of thor hayerdahl sailing a reed boat across the atlantic.
      starting in iberia and getting carried across with the tradewind is pretty easy. its the way back thats a little more challenging.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      someone hasn't read Caesar's account of the Aremoric Veneti

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Lmao no the chinese never could

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >the society of the most advanced engineers, scientists and industrialists for the overwhelming majority of human history couldn't have made it because uh.... well they just couldn't okay!!!
        reminder the chinese had repeating crossbows while Plato was gibbering about how hellenes were peak

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          You know I don't think they did. The evidence for a high Chinese civilization doesn't even appear until the later Han.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            we're reaching levels of delusion and cope that violate natural laws
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mausoleum_of_the_First_Qin_Emperor
            >Mercury was used to simulate the hundred rivers, the Yangtze, Yellow River, and the great sea, and set to flow mechanically.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            It just seems a little absurd. The evidence we have would point to the Xia and the Shang, which were once written about as mythological, as if they were superpowers of the period. We're talking several ton cast items. Almost all of their technology doesn't even fit what we would expect at the time.

            >Unlike repeating crossbows of later eras, the ancient double-shot repeating crossbow uses a pistol grip and a rear-pulling mechanism for arming.

            You don't find it strange that they developed pistol grips in the earlier crossbows when it doesn't get revived until the modern period?

            >You don't find it strange that they developed pistol grips in the earlier crossbows when it doesn't get revived until the modern period?

            This is a good example. It just looks like a modern person created their idea of what an awesome crossbow would be.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >Almost all of their technology doesn't even fit what we would expect at the time.
            On what basis?

            >It just looks like a modern person created their idea of what an awesome crossbow would be.
            And yet, fakes are easily outed and routinely done-so, as seen by the images posted in this thread. But none of the examples are at all controversial for their assigned origins.

            https://i.imgur.com/A7pW33H.png

            >No, not really.
            Really. Pistol grips only make sense when you have repeated heavy recoil. It's only put on modern crossbows as crossover because people who purchase them today often prefer the grips they use from firing guns. It's not natural for stringed weaponry.

            >It's pretty normal for something to become simplified to match the capability of the industrial capability of the period

            That's the problem though- the rest of the material evidence doesn't fit the populations or other technologies of the periods. This is true for both crossbows and castings the Chinese allege they had.

            >Pistol grips only make sense when you have repeated heavy recoil.
            That's not even remotely correct. They represent a completely different ergonomic stance with its own trade-offs and benefits, irresepective of recoil (which isn't even correct, and it's why pistol-caliber weapons are associated with them)

            https://i.imgur.com/OiL8Clp.png

            >Early examples are likely to be directly commissioned by the wealthy for their own personal guard, and thus they tend to be preserved particularly well.

            That makes even less sense because those people typically get looted the most.

            Not at all true in Chinese history, by the way. You don't loot a warlord outside of particular circumstances, you execute him and install a successor. How could you flub such a basic facet of Chinese history?

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >On what basis?
            On the basis specified in the post you responded to.

            >And yet, fakes are easily outed and routinely done-so, as seen by the images posted in this thread. But none of the examples are at all controversial for their assigned origins.

            All of them are. I don't think there's a single example, even a conventional example, not under suspicion. Over a dozen major museums closed down in the 2010s and they all had crossbows that officials described as forgeries. It's a hard thing to convey how thorough the damage is on this forum by taking screenshots.

            >You don't loot a warlord outside of particular circumstances, you execute him and install a successor

            Mass looting is a general rule. No one is safe and the wealthier one is the bigger of a target.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            why do the chinese love fraud so much?

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >Unlike repeating crossbows of later eras, the ancient double-shot repeating crossbow uses a pistol grip and a rear-pulling mechanism for arming.

          You don't find it strange that they developed pistol grips in the earlier crossbows when it doesn't get revived until the modern period?

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            No, not really. It's pretty normal for something to become simplified to match the capability of the industrial capability of the period, and then for the lost ideas to show up again later when advancements overcome the difficulties in producing it. Early examples are likely to be directly commissioned by the wealthy for their own personal guard, and thus they tend to be preserved particularly well.

            Technological regression is a pretty common theme globally, but at least in China it tended to be more about process simplification than lost knowledge.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >No, not really.
            Really. Pistol grips only make sense when you have repeated heavy recoil. It's only put on modern crossbows as crossover because people who purchase them today often prefer the grips they use from firing guns. It's not natural for stringed weaponry.

            >It's pretty normal for something to become simplified to match the capability of the industrial capability of the period

            That's the problem though- the rest of the material evidence doesn't fit the populations or other technologies of the periods. This is true for both crossbows and castings the Chinese allege they had.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >Early examples are likely to be directly commissioned by the wealthy for their own personal guard, and thus they tend to be preserved particularly well.

            That makes even less sense because those people typically get looted the most.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't Plutarch record that the Romans went to the Americas?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      That would be really interesting if he did

      I think Atlantis was meant to be NA but the story itself is only extremely vaguely true

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The Romans weren't well known for their naval capabilities. They might have been able to reach the Americas but occupying it and establishing a frequent trade supply would've been impossible

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >The Romans weren't well known for their naval capabilities.
      Which is why they slapped the other leading maritime power of the period three times in a row. Wait what?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        During the early Republic, Rome had a small navy and depended on allied cities with larger fleets for ships. They did expand and improve their navy to confront Carthage and the Illyrians, but despite building a stronger navy, Rome still relied on Rhodes' navy to handle the Macedonians and Seleucids. Rome maintained their naval dominance by prohibiting its rivals from having powerful fleets in peace treaties. Post Civil War, and with the eventual control of the entire Mediterranean following the defeat of the Egyptians, Rome started to pay less attention to its navy as many Emperors believed it was no longer that essential. In the later years of the empire, the Western Roman Empire consistently lost naval conflicts, while the Eastern Roman navy primarily focused on defense. Rome was not always recognized by it's maritime strength.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Rome started to pay less attention to its navy as many Emperors believed it was no longer that essential
          Source?

          >Rome still relied on
          Source?

          >In the later years of the empire, the Western Roman Empire consistently lost naval conflicts
          Source? Reference? [unnamed battles/wars]

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Nta
            >unnamed battles/wars
            The only big defeat I can remember is the vandal fire ship ambush at cape bon

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous
  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Which is why they slapped the other leading maritime power of the period three times in a row. Wait what?
    Was Carthage good enough to make the trip?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      No, but someone who beat the Punics might be. The Romans had no maritime experience before and this was the early republic. Imagine what they could have done in the early imperial period.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      the phoenicians circumnavigated africa

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      No. Ancient Mediterranean galleys in general were just not ocean worthy. They could have conceivably made it to Greenland by hopping across the Faroes and Iceland like the Vikings did, but a straight sail across the Atlantic with ancient Mediterranean tech? No way.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        sailing west from iberia with the trade winds is a pretty smooth ride, if you're not going in hurricane season. today people do the journey in all kinds of "unsuitable" vessels. kayaks, rowboats, tiny sailboats, rafts... the guanches settled all of the canary islands with stone age tech. they are the last pit stop you can take before the crossing and have open ocean conditions.
        literal monkeys made it over, probably on vegetation rafts washed out to the ocean in storms. thats how we got new world monkeys today.
        all you need is something to keep you afloat for about 2 months and enough water and food for that time.
        the north atlantic route is much more dangerous. you got more stops on the way, but the ocean is colder, rougher and has less favourable winds and currents.

  8. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    >could
    sure, there's been way crazier ancient boat journeys

  9. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Couldn't they reach America with ships like those of Caracalla? Big ships with temples on it and such things.

  10. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    >modern scholars

    lmaoroflcopter

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Right on board with you.

      the very next sentence is
      >However, modern scholars consider this unlikely.[9]

      Okay. Why?Do you know? Or did that wikipedia editor just not like that but got vetoed on deleting the article?

      • 6 days ago
        Radiochan

        Yeah, I know because if there had been continuous navigation to the Americas ancient geographers would have written about it like they did Scandinavia or China.
        Modern scholars do consider it to be unlikely.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >Yeah, I know because if there had been continuous navigation to the Americas ancient geographers would have written about it like they did Scandinavia or China.

          I'm looking for the Plutarch passage still. He wrote so much it's disgusting. I have gorged on the verbiage and I still cannot find it. It could be in any of the Lives or in Moralia. I am going insane send help.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          Phonecians were famous for outright lying to people about their trade routes, to keep them secret and monopolize.
          If they had discovered new lands to the west they would have told nobody about it.

          According to Diodorus Siculus:

          [...] in the deep off Africa is an island of considerable size...fruitful, much of it mountainous.... Through it flow navigable rivers....The Phoenicians had discovered it by accident after having planted many colonies throughout Africa.

          >Working with computer-enhanced images of gold coins minted in the Punic/Phoenician city in North Africa of Carthage between 350 and 320 BC, (please see sketch of coin right and where the world map is supposed to have been inscribed) McMenamin has interpreted a series of designs appearing on these coins, the meaning of which has long puzzled scholars. McMenamin believes the designs represent a map of the ancient world, including the area surrounding the Mediterranean Sea and the land mass representing the Americas.

          McMenamin's analysis is something I saw a long time ago, and combined with the entry of Diodorus of Sicily and another Brazilian discovery in the 19th century I'll post later I think it's somewhat convincing.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            19 1 But now that we have discussed what relates to the islands which lie within the Pillars of Heracles, we shall give an account of those which are in the ocean. For there lies out in the deep off Libya an island1 of considerable size, and situated as it is in the ocean it is distant from Libya a voyage of a number of days to the west. Its land is fruitful, much of it being mountainous and not a little being a level plain of surpassing beauty. 2 Through it flow navigable rivers which are used for irrigation, and the island contains many parks planted with trees of every variety and gardens in great multitudes which are traversed by streams of sweet water; on it also are private villas of costly construction, and throughout the gardens banqueting houses have been constructed in a setting of flowers, and in them the inhabitants pass their time during the summer season, since the land supplies in abundance everything which contributes to enjoyment and luxury. 3 The mountainous part of the island is covered with dense thickets of great extent and with fruit-trees of every variety, and, inviting men to life among the mountains, it has cozy glens and springs in great number. ... 4 There is also excellent hunting of every manner of beast and wild animal, and the inhabitants, being well supplied with this game at their feasts, lack of nothing which pertains to luxury and extravagance; for in fact the sea which washes the shore of the island contains a multitude of fish, since the character of the ocean is such that it abounds throughout its extent with fish of every variety. 5 And, speaking generally, the climate of the island is so altogether mild that it produces in abundance the fruits of the trees and the other seasonal fruits for the larger part of the year, so that it would appear that the island, because of its exceptional felicity, were a dwelling-place of a race of gods and not of men.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            In ancient times this island remained undiscovered because of its distance from the entire inhabited world, but it was discovered at a later period for the following reason. The Phoenicians, who from ancient times on made voyages continually for purposes of trade, planted many colonies throughout Libya and not a few as well in the western parts of Europe. And since their ventures turned out according to their expectations, they amassed great wealth and essayed to voyage beyond the Pillars of Heracles into the sea which men call the ocean. 2 And, first of all, upon the Strait itself by the Pillars they founded a city on the shores of Europe, and since the land formed a peninsula they called the city Gadeira;2 in the city they built many works appropriate to the nature of the region, and among them a costly temple of Heracles,3 and they instituted magnificent sacrifices which were conducted after the manner of the Phoenicians. And it has come to pass that this shrine has been held in an honour beyond the ordinary, both at the time of its building and in comparatively recent days down even to our own lifetime. Also many Romans, distinguished men who have performed great deeds, have offered vows to this god, and these vows they have performed after the completion of their successes.4 3 The Phoenicians, then, while exploring the coast outside the Pillars for the reasons we have stated and while sailing along the shore of Libya, were driven by strong winds a great distance out into the ocean.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            And after being storm-tossed for many days they were carried ashore on the island we mentioned above, and when they had observed its felicity and nature they caused it to be known to all men.5 4 Consequently the Tyrrhenians, at the time when they were masters of the sea, purposed to dispatch a colony to it; but the Carthaginians prevented their doing so, partly out of concern lest many inhabitants of Carthage should remove there because of the excellence of the island, and partly in order to have ready in it a place in which to seek refuge against an incalculable turn of fortune, in case some total disaster should overtake Carthage. For it was their thought that, since they were masters of the sea, they would thus be able to move, households and all, to an island which was unknown to their conquerors.

            >inb4 it's le Britain
            literally the next line

            But since we have set forth the facts concerning the ocean lying off Libya and its islands, we shall now turn our discussion to Europe. Opposite that part of Gaul which lies on the ocean and directly across from the Hercynian Forest,7 as it is called, which is the largest of any in Europe of which tradition tells us, there are many islands out in the ocean of which the largest is that known as Britain.

  11. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't they find some Roman coins in a burial mound not long ago?

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Every few years we would hear something about that and it would get pulled from search engines and drop off of Google Scholar. I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't have my hard drive with those pictures right now.

  12. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Celts from Spain already arrived in America 2500 years ago and give start to the Chachapoyas culture.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chachapoya_culture

    Appearance and origins
    Cieza de León remarked that, among the indigenous Peruvians, the Chachapoyas were unusually fair-skinned and famously beautiful:

    They are the whitest and most handsome of all the people that I have seen in Indies, and their wives were so beautiful that because of their gentleness, many of them deserved to be the Incas' wives and to also be taken to the Sun Temple (...) The women and their husbands always dressed in woolen clothes and in their heads they wear their llautos, which are a sign they wear to be known everywhere.

    They finally develop the following possible scenario. In the same time when Carthage was sieged, a Group of Carthaginians and their Celtic-Iberian and Balearic allies assembled in Ibiza to start a evacuation from the roman hemisphere. Based on reports gathered over the centuries they choose these "Isle" because the West African coast was too close to Rome. For Celtic and Phoenician History it was not a singularity to start such an adventure. Further we have Roman sources and rumours which give hints to such a suspicion. After the fall of Carthage Polybius the author and military advisor of Scipio was sent with a fleet to the west coast of Africa. One reason could be to think, that he was searching for the Carthaginian Colonies founded by Hanno, but it is strange that he sailed down to Gabon. One possibility could be that he followed a Carthaginian fleet as long as he could be sure that they were gone. If they crossed the Ocean he could be saw this first at this Point.
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?592555-Did-Carthaginians-Celts-and-Balearic-People-traveled-to-South-America

  13. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Just looked on Wikipedia and I'm surprised how many claims of pre Columbian contact there are and the evidence is actually pretty good.

  14. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    What do you guys think of this meme?
    Also it is well known that the american natives thought the European colonizers were their Gods.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      .
      >What do you guys think of this meme?
      It's a distorted quote.

      >Also it is well known that the american natives thought the European colonizers were their Gods.
      Well known myth is still a myth.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >It's a distorted quote.
        Doubt it
        >Well known myth is still a myth.
        It's not a myth, you're just seething

  15. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    The Romans couldn't even sail to Sardinia, they had to follow the coast

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Sardinia wasn't discovered untill the 1800s

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >Sardinia wasn't discovered untill the 1800s
        That's 100% not true lol

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          ESL moment. He was saying that the Roman’s couldn’t navigate blue water

          You need steam engines to navigate the open sea

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Sardinia was itself under several hundred years of Roman occupation you fricking moron.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        ESL moment. He was saying that the Roman’s couldn’t navigate blue water

  16. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think the Americas were entirely unknown to the ancient world. Most people just didn't believe the seafarers who had been there and talked about it, and the few who believed it had no interest in going there.

  17. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    It seems like his guess was right. If you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the only one that yelps is the one you hit.

  18. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    I've heard that Basque fishermen fished cod in the Grand Banks decades before Columbus. Is there any truth to that?

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah.

  19. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, we know they did, Beringia had sank at the time of this admixture event.

    Someone crossed water from the Mediterranean to the New World.

  20. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    It's been centuries since the British were met with rolling eyes when they tried to impress the (completely degenerated) Qing with shitty baubles. And yet despite that, there continues to be an ever-burning flame in the hearts of a certain kind of ignorant fool that tries in every endeavor to prove that this massive civilization with several thousand years of bureaucracy and technological prowess is somehow actually truly barbarians. A perverse kind of psychological complex, at the idea that somehow Christendom is harmed at the idea that it was never the apex of intellectual achievement. Even in the face of total, overwhelming, uncontroversial evidence, they eek out and attempt by any means to prove that the problematic Celestials are in fact dilute tribals who despite being totally savage and debased, have the wits required to debase and manufacture the entirety of their greatness post-hoc.

    And you expect me to take you seriously? My brother, all you do is make a mockery of yourself and all you believe in.

  21. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    There are two theories within the context of norse colonisation that I consider true. 1. the existence of a larger Norse settlement south of Newfoundland, perhaps on US soil. 2. the Irish having a colony prior to the Norse (White Man’s Land/Greater Ireland)

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