Crisis of consiense

I'm starting to think that eating animals is immoral bros.....

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 months ago
      Chud Anon

      Vegans are moronic and age like they opened the ark of the covenant. I'm thinking like pesctarian. Fish are barley sentient and don't cause the carbon footprint red meat does.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        your individual actions won’t affect the meat industry or carbon footprint in the slightest. Might as well eat the meat and not waste it

        • 2 months ago
          Chud Anon

          There's millions of people who have made the decision to opt out, that's put a dent in overall demand.

          Fish are sentient and feel pain just like mammals.

          Eh, i have no qualms about sardines and anchovies

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >your individual actions won’t affect the porn industry or immoral footprint in the slightest. Might as well consume the porn and not waste it

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            False equivalence. How specifically is a digital video going to be "wasted"?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fish are sentient and feel pain just like mammals.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I'm thinking like pesctarian
        This is the way, but it sucks if you don't have access to good fish, and you're going to have to get comfy with cooking it at some point if you're not already. Dense fish like swordfish and wahoo will make you forget about eating meat when cooked right. Even rays and crazy looking fish like grouper are fricking delicious. I wish I could eat every fish in the ocean.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I wish I could eat every fish in the ocean.
          Are you Chinese bu any chance? Since that is what they are doing. Depopulating entire sea ecosystems and eating them

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Many call chinese "gross" for eating live animals but they simply are doing natural predator things. Most predators eat their prey whole or still moving and very much alive, when they kill it's only to subdue.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Many call chinese "gross" for eating live animals but they simply are doing natural predator things.
            No, they are sadistic animal torturers.
            They are like domestic cats that torture their prey rather than dogs that just efficiently chase and kill as quick as they can.
            People choke to death from eating live octopus because of the functioning suckers.
            People get parasite infections from not fully killing or cooking their meals before eating.
            There is no logical reason for doing what the Chinese do aside from Sadism. They treat each other like shit too. So all around that are just an ethnicity or sadistic, effeminate, cat-like people.

            Why are humans superior to animals, and why in turn does it justify their ruthless exploitation?

            >Why are humans superior to animals
            Do you understand how stupid that question is?
            Animals don't give a flying frick about killing other animals or different species.
            Are crabs sentient? no...
            Can crabs dream? no...
            Can crabs consciously perceive pain? no...
            Can crabs read, write, remember things for ten years, use tools etc? no...

            So if you get mauled by a bear in the wild, that makes bears superior to humans?

            >So if you get mauled by a bear in the wild, that makes bears superior to humans?
            No, because if humans wanted we could genocide every single bear species on Earth in five years.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not Chinese, or any other type of Asian. Many fish are just damn tasty, but with the exception of a few, most need to be prepared and cooked properly.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >carbon footprint
        fake chud

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fish do feel pain, just not the same way we do. They probably even feel it more than we do. There are exceedingly few creatures where we can say with some amount of certainty that they do not feel pain. Like oysters.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Insects don't feel pain

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The same kind of delusion that people who say that aborted children do not have soul to justify their genocidal practices.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's virtually guaranteed that they've been programmed to dislike getting damaged.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They don't actually react to damage though.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            A spider definitely reacts to its leg getting torn off.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Insects feel, they have feelers, nerve endings. Even singular non-neuron cells feel changes in their environment.
            what you call "pain" is the adverse reaction toward a certain input on the cells which triggers a short or long term self-preservation response toward what the organism treats as harm or potential harm.
            Tho you'd probably want to restrict it as said input when relayed to a central nervous system that then triggers said reaction.
            But is it always beneficial for an organism to have strong adverse reactions to sensing harm? Making it more alert to danger? Said reactions can be destabilizing and counterproductive.

            Now why would it matter to me or my desire to consume other organisms?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because I'm woman-brained and I see myself or a baby in the cute puppers treating like like a human being when they're not without knowing any better, I'm woman-brained so I feel no incentive to.
            Those puppers over there aren't my pets but I'm woman-brained so I act as if what isn't mine was my own and will try to force you to do as I say.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Vegans unironically believe human moral laws should be applied to nature and animals, the most moronic ones I've seen argue for the extinction of predator species like Lions and Wolves since they "perpetuate le suffering"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the most moronic ones I've seen argue for the extinction of predator species like Lions and Wolves since they "perpetuate le suffering"
            no one does that, build a better strawman. the point of animal activism is to fight against industrial cruelty and slaughter of billions of innocent animals every year.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >industrial cruelty and slaughter of billions of innocent animals every year.
            What about the natural cruelty and slaughter of billions of innocent animals every year?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Vegans are usually arbitrary, yes.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Vegans are absolutely consistent. Animals kill other animals for food and because they have to. We kill other animals for our own pleasure, and we do it in numbers that are multiple times higher and in a way that is infinitely more cruel. A lion does not keep the gazelle in a small cage its whole life, steals her babies and throws her in a slaughter machine at the end.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Animals kill other animals for food and because they have to
            No they all don't, very reductivist anon.
            See

            Sentience is just a feature like gills or leaves, they are not us, you don't own them, they are fair game. I crave I eat.

            Stop acting high and mighty for being a childish picky eater. You are no better than any of us. Been using toilet paper to wipe your ass? The Lorax would like to have a few words with you.

            I enjoy eating fried beef brain, my favorite offal.

            Pic rel
            They kill because they can, not just because they have to.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes of course you are entirely correct. Dolphins killing purpoises definitely is the same as industrial mass slaughter. I will go to McDonalds right now and stuff my gob cave with gone-off animal carcasses.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Vegans are absolutely consistent.
            They fail to explain why human law and value applies to none-humans indiscriminately, even to the ones we haven't domesticated for social purposes. They generalize and clump all animals together in one arbitrary group since they are too moronic to accept the differences between them. This is by design since Vegan arguments rely on guilty tripping you by equating the slaughterhouse pig to the pet animal you spent decades investing yourself in.
            >Animals kill other animals for food and because they have to.
            Not true. Some do it for sport, to establish/maintain territory, to cut back on competition and etc. Lions will kill the cubs of others. Otters will rape baby seals. Macaques will torture and kill outcasts. Animals are just as capable of barbarism against their own kind and others and this is why I consider vegans arbitrary. Why should we stop at slaughterhouses? A truly humane vegan would argue for policing nature as well unless they are some cowardly hypocrite.
            >We kill other animals for our own pleasure,
            You are absolutely correct here if "pleasure" includes "eating the food you want to eat" -- however, I don't see it as a moral wrong because the desires of humans to live as they please within the boundaries of their own territories and social laws is no less valid than an animal doing the same.
            >and we do it in numbers that are multiple times higher and in a way that is infinitely more cruel.
            Have you never seen a predator tear apart a living, screaming animal?
            >A lion does not keep the gazelle in a small cage its whole life, steals her babies and throws her in a slaughter machine at the end.
            I genuinely don't care though. You need explain why humanity as a whole should restructure itself to act in a way you think would please these artificial domestic breeds that would go extinct the moment after or why a human value system applies to them.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I genuinely don't care though.
            Why would I waste your time addressing all your points (which honestly is not that hard and has been done by people far more intelligent and articulate than I numerous times), when this is your final rebuttal? You obviously like to eat meat and do not care about the consequences satisfying your cravings has. That's why you have to equate nature to industrial slaughter houses and argue away animals' capacity to feel pain, because God forbid you ever have unpleasant thoughts while eating a steak. You are silencing your conscience.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Why would I waste your time addressing all your points (which honestly is not that hard and has been done by people far more intelligent and articulate than I numerous times), when this is your final rebuttal?
            I gave you the criteria for changing my mind which is explaining why human values should apply to animals we prey upon. You can't do that since it's purely arbitrary just like a meat eaters choice to continue being a meat eater so you're back to deflecting.
            >You obviously like to eat meat and do not care about the consequences satisfying your cravings has.
            Not true. It has consequences on my wallet.
            >That's why you have to equate nature to industrial slaughter houses and argue away animals' capacity to feel pain,
            Are you moronic? I aknowledge animals die and feel pain in my first post here:

            Why should I care if animals die or feel pain? I already consider it a given when it comes to eating meat.

            I am fully conscious of the meat industry because I want to know where my food comes from.
            >because God forbid you ever have unpleasant thoughts while eating a steak.
            What kind of weepy loser acts like that? If I had issues eating meat because animals suffers for it I simply wouldn't eat it. If I said I had issues, but kept eating it, that would obviously be meek and hollow.
            >You are silencing your conscience.
            I see no reason to think a vegan would know what that word means.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If I had issues eating meat because animals suffers for it I simply wouldn't eat it.
            That's the whole point though. If you admit that you fully know and understand the scale of animal suffering you are actively contributing to but still continue to boast about your meat consumption on a basket weaving forum, you will not be convinced to change your habits one bit by a discussion of the ethics of wildlife.

            >Some do it for sport, to establish/maintain territory, to cut back on competition and etc. Lions will kill the cubs of others. Otters will rape baby seals. Macaques will torture and kill outcasts. Animals are just as capable of barbarism against their own kind and others and this is why I consider vegans arbitrary. Why should we stop at slaughterhouses? A truly humane vegan would argue for policing nature as well unless they are some cowardly hypocrite.
            In case I am wrong and you will stop eating meat once that simple misunderstanding is cleared, I will humour you anyway. Your examples do not contradict what I said at all. Animals do not make the conscious decision to be cruel. They lack the capacity. A lion who eats his cubs is not evil. A hamster who eats his youngs is not barbaric. They do so because they are biologically compelled to. They literally can't help themselves, they run on instinct. We as humans on the other hand (at least most of us), have risen above that. We are no longer slaves to our instinct. We possess an intellect that drives our decisions. We are capable of choosing different actions. If a human kills another human, it's wrong. Because they had the choice to choose differently. That's also where our judicial system comes in. If it can be proven that killing the other person was necessary, that we had no choice (self defense for example), it's acceptable. Because they had no choice. Again, animals never have a choice. It is you who is applying human morality on animals. Post too long, I'll maybe answer in greater detail later.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That's the whole point though. If you admit that you fully know and understand the scale of animal suffering you are actively contributing to but still continue to boast about your meat consumption on a basket weaving forum, you will not be convinced to change your habits one bit by a discussion of the ethics of wildlife.
            I do agree that it's a subjective choice that each person makes. Ethics are placed at a level above laws but how you or I view what's Ethical will differ greatly.
            >Animals do not make the conscious decision to be cruel. They lack the capacity. A lion who eats his cubs is not evil. A hamster who eats his youngs is not barbaric. They do so because they are biologically compelled to. They literally can't help themselves, they run on instinct. We as humans on the other hand (at least most of us), have risen above that. We are no longer slaves to our instinct. We possess an intellect that drives our decisions. We are capable of choosing different actions. If a human kills another human, it's wrong. Because they had the choice to choose differently. That's also where our judicial system comes in. If it can be proven that killing the other person was necessary, that we had no choice (self defense for example), it's acceptable. Because they had no choice. Again, animals never have a choice. It is you who is applying human morality on animals. Post too long, I'll maybe answer in greater detail later.
            Let's say I agree with you 100% here, if they are that unthinking it only makes it easier to put our requirements over their own. They are clearly not capable of evil, they are also not capable of good either. Why should we change as a species to accomodate them and the Vegans like yourself who want to project their own lifestyle and values on other sapient humans?
            >It is you who is applying human morality on animals.
            We are both doing it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They are clearly not capable of evil, they are also not capable of good either. Why should we change as a species to accomodate them
            Because they are capable of suffering and we are capable of good.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >suffering
            Subjective experience, they react to pain and stress so what? They aren't *of us*
            I don't care and neither should you

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Subjective experience, they react to pain and stress so what? They aren't *of us*
            >I don't care and neither should you
            Vegans and animal rights activists use the same insane logic as zoophiles.
            "They are just like us and need to be treated exactly like humans"...

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They aren't *of us*
            >I don't care and neither should you
            Dividing life worthy of living and that unworthy of living by whether it's human or not, is narrow-minded.
            According to the religious creeds which we have characterized as “man-centered,” man, alone created “in the likeness of God,” is God’s most beloved child, perhaps even his only child on this earth. The heavenly Father of the Christian Gospels no doubt loves the sparrows. But he loves man infinitely more. He loves the lilies too; he has clothed them more beautifully “than Solomon in all his glory”; yet, man is the main object of his solicitude, not they. Among all the living beings that are born in the visible world man alone is supposed to be endowed with an immortal soul. He alone was created for eternity. The transient world was made for him to enjoy and exploit during his short earthly life, and creatures of several species were appointed — both quadrupeds and birds — as meat for him to eat. And that is not all. A whole scheme of salvation was worked out for him by God himself, so that man might still reach everlasting bliss in spite of his sins. God raised prophets to urge rebellious humanity to repentance and to point out the way of righteousness. And according to the Christian belief, he even sent his only Son to suffer and die, so that his blood might become the ransom of all sinners who put their faith in him. (1/2)

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            All the splendor of the material world; all the grace, strength and loveliness of millions of beasts, birds, fishes, trees and creepers; the majesty of the snow-clad mountains, the beauty of the unfurling waves — all that and much more — is not worth, in God’s eyes, the immortal soul of a human imbecile — so they say, at least. That is why the hunting of tigers and deer, the butchering of innocent woolly lambs, so glad to live, the dissecting of pretty white guinea pigs or ofintelligent dogs, are not “sins” according to the man-centered faiths — not even if they imply the most appalling suffering. But the painless chloroforming of worthless human idiots is a “crime.” How could it be otherwise? They have two legs, no tail, and an immortal soul. However degenerate they be, they are men.

            I cannot help here recalling the answer of a French medical student, a
            member of the “Christian Federation of Students,” whom I has asked, twentyfive years ago, how he could reconcile his religious aspirations with his support of vivisection. “What conflict can there be between the two?” said he; “Christ did not die for guinea pigs and dogs.” I do not know what Christ would actually have said to that. The fact remains that, from the point of view of historical Christianity, the boy was right. And his answer is enough to
            disgust one forever with all man-centered creeds. (2/2)
            Impeachment of Man, 4-5.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            All the splendor of the material world; all the grace, strength and loveliness of millions of beasts, birds, fishes, trees and creepers; the majesty of the snow-clad mountains, the beauty of the unfurling waves — all that and much more — is not worth, in God’s eyes, the immortal soul of a human imbecile — so they say, at least. That is why the hunting of tigers and deer, the butchering of innocent woolly lambs, so glad to live, the dissecting of pretty white guinea pigs or ofintelligent dogs, are not “sins” according to the man-centered faiths — not even if they imply the most appalling suffering. But the painless chloroforming of worthless human idiots is a “crime.” How could it be otherwise? They have two legs, no tail, and an immortal soul. However degenerate they be, they are men.

            I cannot help here recalling the answer of a French medical student, a
            member of the “Christian Federation of Students,” whom I has asked, twentyfive years ago, how he could reconcile his religious aspirations with his support of vivisection. “What conflict can there be between the two?” said he; “Christ did not die for guinea pigs and dogs.” I do not know what Christ would actually have said to that. The fact remains that, from the point of view of historical Christianity, the boy was right. And his answer is enough to
            disgust one forever with all man-centered creeds. (2/2)
            Impeachment of Man, 4-5.

            Uh... sorry
            I don't really care about your semitic myths.

            I don't think any life is "worthy of living" or what not.
            I believe in living with fellow humans and using all types of resources, living or not, toward our flourishment. Simply because that's what I, we, aspire to.
            Sharing a delicious meal with our significant others

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't really care about your semitic myths.
            this is a case against semitic myths, but way to showcase your reading comprehension

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh? I assumed you were trying to evangelize me, my apologies.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >this is a case against semitic myths
            No it isn't lol. You don't need to be Christian to understand that Crabs aren't people.
            Crabs don't value humans as their own and humans don't value crabs as their own.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why are humans superior to animals, and why in turn does it justify their ruthless exploitation?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because they are, if we weren't we would be able to exploit them.
            We exploit them because we can and have a lot to gain from it. Why shouldn't we?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            So if you get mauled by a bear in the wild, that makes bears superior to humans?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Superior in physical strength, but If I had a gun or even just a sturdy pointy stick with time to prepare I could overcome the bear with intelligence and techniques. Proving myself superior.
            Now add numbers to the equation.

            Doesn't matter if the beetle is superior to one ant, it's still ant food.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Many call chinese "gross" for eating live animals but they simply are doing natural predator things.
            No, they are sadistic animal torturers.
            They are like domestic cats that torture their prey rather than dogs that just efficiently chase and kill as quick as they can.
            People choke to death from eating live octopus because of the functioning suckers.
            People get parasite infections from not fully killing or cooking their meals before eating.
            There is no logical reason for doing what the Chinese do aside from Sadism. They treat each other like shit too. So all around that are just an ethnicity or sadistic, effeminate, cat-like people.
            [...]
            >Why are humans superior to animals
            Do you understand how stupid that question is?
            Animals don't give a flying frick about killing other animals or different species.
            Are crabs sentient? no...
            Can crabs dream? no...
            Can crabs consciously perceive pain? no...
            Can crabs read, write, remember things for ten years, use tools etc? no...
            [...]
            >So if you get mauled by a bear in the wild, that makes bears superior to humans?
            No, because if humans wanted we could genocide every single bear species on Earth in five years.

            So it comes down to intelligence? What if a more intelligent species were to come to earth? Of what if a more intelligent race of humans were to emerge? Would they be justified in exploiting you?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So it comes down to intelligence?
            We are literally the most intelligent life form to ever exist. We are the most self-aware animals to ever exist.

            >What if a more intelligent species were to come to earth?
            Aliens don't exist but if they did we would attempt to genocide them. Early humans almost went extinct in the past due to competition with other animals. Yet we persevered.
            Other animals have also persevered.
            Animals that equate others with themselves don't live very long.
            A sheep trying to befriend wolves doesn't live very long.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You didn't answer the question. Is higher intelligence enough of a moral justification to exploit less intelligent beings? And if so, would you find it moral to be exploited and slaughtered by a more intelligent race?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >moral
            They aren't human, morality isn't applied here. This is a power struggle, may the victor feast on the flesh of the defeated!

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You didn't answer the question
            It did answer your question...

            >Is higher intelligence enough of a moral justification to exploit less intelligent beings?
            All animals by default don't see any problem with genociding other species that aren't them. Animals go by appearance, smell and behaviour to determining what isn't them and thus what is of less value to them.
            Humans following that trend don't value other animals as much as them because they are less intelligent, look different etc.

            >And if so, would you find it moral to be exploited and slaughtered by a more intelligent race?
            No, because like all other animal species we don't see any problem with killing those that aren't us and we will do anything in our power to win in conflicts.
            This isn't rocket science you fricking moron lol.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why are humans superior to animals, and why in turn does it justify their ruthless exploitation?

            Humans are superior to animals in every conceivable way imaginable. When was the last time a horse looked at a sunset and felt contentment? They can't because their minds are litteraly to simplistic to take it in.
            If animals are equal to humans where are the Michelangelo Rhinos? Where is the Ceasar Eagle? Where is my Serpent Vivaldi?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >race
            No since all humans are equal (yes even nigs and morons) and every human is superior to even the smartest animal.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >equal
            To the law you mean? Individuals are not equal in wealth, strength, education, culture, skill and intelligence...

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes! But we wouldn't go down without a fight, would we? Eheheh
            Maybe they're naive and we'd be cunning enough to exploit their weakness, maybe they aren't that numerous and we'd crush them with numbers. So many factors... but I have faith in our ability to defeat any foe! Competition would only make us grow

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Aliens would think they are right in exploiting us. We would think its wrong.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Demons demonise to rationalise the fulfillment of their craven demands. They are possessive.
            Possessives are possessed.
            I don't think any intelligent being would allow this to be the state of play in their own mind.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            We humanise what we don't understand. And we see demons.... surprise surprise.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What's the image?
            Bugs exploit everything - their brain is non-existant and spawling around their body. They do what feels good. Like a robot in a sense.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The image is the aliens from the C. M. Kosemen book "All tommorrows". Basically, they are an ancient nomadic alien species that exterminates most of humanity and keeps the remainders as genetically modified pets or decorations. They do that because they apparently believe themselves to be the only truly sentient creatures in the universe and thus the only ones who are allowed to modify it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And that is their right.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Aliens would think they are right in exploiting us. We would think its wrong.

            %3D%3D
            the way scientists talk about aliens almost makes it sound like genocide is guaranteed if we ever discover a sapient species, the question is who will genocide who first.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Your views on what is good applies to people who share your personal ethics and lifestyle while mine is the same, but on the opposite spectrum. The most that can be reasonably done about this is allowing people to live as they please within the bounds of the law and not forcing others to conform strictly to mine or your values and mindset. You can of course try to take over the world and tyrannize others to change how they live to line up with your own beliefs which is a bit harder but who knows if we don't try.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The most that can be reasonably done about this is allowing people to live as they please within the bounds of the law
            What a shit take. Laws are made by men. If I make a law that forbids eating meat, would you still find it reasonable to live as you please within the bounds of the law?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Of course not since like a Vegan I would think my personal biases are important than the law.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's their living conditions, having to live in a box, in their own shit, being fed antibiotics not to die, chickens getting their beaks burned off so they don't kill each other, that is more cruel and disgusting than anything that happens in the wild.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Don't bother, you're replying to people who think chocolate milk comes from brown cows.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >cruel
            They aren't people, they are food, mobile vegetables, meat.
            I do prefer my vegetables organic, high quality, but that adds to the price. I'm glad the cheap stuff exists so that more people get to enjoy them and their benefits. You see I have a lot of empathy for my fellas

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They aren't people, they are food, mobile vegetables, meat.
            You've clearly never been on a farm or interacted with any of them. Just living in your own box thinking your stupid thoughts.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They arent mobile food but they aren't humans either.
            Vegantards would unironically consider a pig their equal so we should consider factory farming them as well.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Lots of people have much fulfilling relationships with their friendly dogs and cats than with mean, dull, butthole people. Pigs and cows are no different.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            many of the smartest people are actually on record prefering the company of animals to that of humans

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh I've been, quick to assume things and ad hominem are we?

            Let's see... I own dogs. The dogs I own I don't consider them the same as people. Why? Cause they're not? I may treat them as my companions but I know the limit between them, me and other humans. I take good care of what I own and care about. In fact I own more than just dogs. I'm very familiar with how animals feel and think.
            Now about livestock, I considered owning chickens for a while but my neightborhood doesn't allow that unfortunately. I used to witness my rural grandparents behead chickens themselves. I used to be a kid like you trying to treat animals and humans as equal, since children entertainment heavily rely on anthromoporhized animals, not knowing any better... but I grew up and I started questioning all this conflicting information.

            My conclusions?
            Animals are not people, they are, to us, exploitable resources. Living things are to be exploited. Be it for nourishment or emotional entertainment.
            Why? Because we can and gain a lot from it. So... why not?
            >suffering
            Not people, nothing "moral" here, your empathy is misplaced. Like anon said, woman-brained. Not all animals are your pets

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >having to live in a box
            Animals, especially domesticated animals, don't mind it as much as you think they do.
            >in their own shit
            Once again, they don't mind it as much as you think they do, plus plenty of farms do regularly clean their living areas.
            >being fed antibiotics not to die
            Why is that a bad thing?
            >chickens getting their beaks burned off so they don't kill each other
            A one-time event to prevent future pain, so again, why is that a bad thing? Also, it's banned in a number of countries.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't decide if you're a psychopath, willfully ignorant or just genuinely moronic, as in the medical sense.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >no argument

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't believe it's taken me this long to realize Vegans are moralgays that can't argue beyond trying to gaslight you into thinking you're evil.

            >animals actually don't mind being tortured from birth until their miserable end. I've asked them, they told me so.
            Do you really believe a statement like this deserves anything other than an ad hominem response?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            How are they being tortured from birth to death?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            gee i don't know

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They "suffer" for a good cause, our human enjoyment! No bigger value than that.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't believe it's taken me this long to realize Vegans are moralgays that can't argue beyond trying to gaslight you into thinking you're evil.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Why is that a bad thing?
            They wouldn't need antibiotics if they weren't living in putrid conditions and chickens don't peck each other to death if they have some freedom of movement and aren't stressed out 24/7.
            You are right that they don't need all that much but they absolutely do enjoy walking around outside instead of being in a cage all day.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They wouldn't need antibiotics
            Animals don't get hurt in the wild?
            >if they have some freedom of movement and aren't stressed out 24/7.
            Depends on the farm.

            gee i don't know

            See above and picrelated.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Most animal rights people are fine with the farm on your picture, it's the industrial one above that is disgusting and shouldn't exist.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Most animal rights people are fine with the farm on your picture
            Nope. Animal rights activists are like homosexuals.
            It's a never ending list of ever more batshit insane demands until they destroy everything good around them because they are mentally ill human hating misanthropes being kept alive by the modern welfare state.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I got more "industrial" ones for you that are still far better than your vegan propaganda pic.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They have freedom of movement and their beaks haven't been burned off here. Don't pretend like those nightmare factories don't exist.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is your issue excess cruelty on killing animals or just killing animals in general?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Mine is excess cruelty and disgusting living conditions. I don't see what the world would win if chickens went extinct and we all ate roaches.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Of course they exist, but they shouldn't be used as an argument against eating meat.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            looks like a clients hen house, super clean, birds are in excellent health, genuinely loves all of his animals. That's what we should strive for in nearly all faculties, we'd live in a better country if we prioritized that over bullshit like mUh pRoFitS

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The vegan to gnostic pipeline.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >what you call "pain" is the adverse reaction toward a certain input on the cells which triggers a short or long term self-preservation response toward what the organism treats as harm or potential harm.
            Yeah because that's what pain is.
            >Now why would it matter to me or my desire to consume other organisms?
            It doesn't.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Realistically, the most ethical choice is to advance cultured meat.

        Animals eat other animals, even "herbivores" like cows snap up birds and mice once in awhile and eat them without any second thoughts. This why I don't understand veganism. Why would it be immoral for an omnivore like humans to eat animals if even herbivores do it?

        >implying

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >horrific dystopian technological "meat" abomination
          >ethical
          lmao

          techgays should drop the act and stop pretending like they have any moral compass at all

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fishing is in many ways even worse than farming.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Animals eat other animals, even "herbivores" like cows snap up birds and mice once in awhile and eat them without any second thoughts. This why I don't understand veganism. Why would it be immoral for an omnivore like humans to eat animals if even herbivores do it?

    • 2 months ago
      Chud Anon

      Well there's the environmental impact of factory farming for one. then there's the prison like conditions cows, chickens, and pigs are kept in where they go psychotic from not being able to even walk around. Honestly, wild hunted game is so much better morally than factory farmed food.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        this is what I take issue with, the bullshit that factory farms put animals through. Literally they produce nothing of substance outside of "MEAT", but the side affects of polluting local water tables, grass land, air pollution, shitty wages, disgusting work environment, etc etc.

        I lost of a shit ton of clients with my IT consulting business because a lot were near the red before covid and that accelerated their demise. So many sold to a factory farm company that had been eyeing the general area for a near decade. It was literally one month where I lost well over 30 clients, all family farms, all sustainable, all good people.

        Now it's some dogfricker in a suit not giving a frick about the general area. The county I'm in has had their hand forced to close about a dozen wells already for extreme elevated levels of bacteria, and methane. Dozens of rolls overs of liquid manure because they allow mexicans with no CDLs to drive these fricking semis.

        I fricking hate corporations, been buying a quarter of a cow every year, ya its more expensive up front, but frick giving those Black folk any of my money.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Pollution is the actual issue not "livestock feelings"

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      why would it be immoral to rape kids if other humans and animals do it?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        eating meat doesn't screw up a child's mental state for life, rape does. Who would have thunk it?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That's why I never understand them. At least vegetarians eat eggs and drink dairy.

      why would it be immoral to rape kids if other humans and animals do it?

      False equivalence.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's a disgusting sickening practice. I have honestly considered vegetarianism for a while, because frick I can't live without eggs.

    The mass industrial farming we got in the USA is an abomination and needs to be nuked with fire.

    I think one of the solutions is going to be synthetic meat, we don't need to slaughter any animals in the process and remove alot of the horrible effects that consuming certain meat can do to you.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The mass industrial farming we got in the USA is an abomination and needs to be nuked with fire.
      Lawmakers could easily sanitize them and force farmers to have cows live in luxury conditions but that would make the price of burgers go up.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Lawmakers could easily sanitize them and force farmers to have cows live in luxury conditions but that would make the price of burgers go up.

        Getting really sick of "muh profits line go up" mindset.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Getting really sick of "muh profits line go up" mindset.
          Pathetic manchild. The moment you have to pay $20 for a Big Mach you would start screeching. You take everything for granted, the reason why meat is cheap is that the cows live in miserable conditions and the farmhands don't get paid well.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      If you need eggs, legit look locally, nearly everyone is going back to self sustaining practices and will love to offset their costs by selling their surplus of meat, milk, eggs etc.

      If you have a farmers market, legit talk to farmers who sell the previously mentioned, if they have eggs for sale at the market I guarantee they know someone who will sell you eggs.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    What's the solution? Eating roaches and never having the cows be born?
    As long as they can live in ok conditions and be killed without prolonged suffering there is no reason not to eat cows.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Don't forget that eating vegetables is also immoral. Plants don't want them to be eaten. That's why they are so bitter, unlike the fruits that plants give us by making them tasty and sweet.

    • 2 months ago
      Chud Anon

      What?

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Future generations will absolutely despise us for our systematized mass slaughter of animals, all so we can eat something that has viable alternatives.

    Going full shit vegan is one thing but IMO eating red meat is not morally justifiable considering its meager gains.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Eat the bugs

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Morality is for humans between humans, it doesn't concern other animals unless those animals are tied to humans(pets) or are limited resources.
    Killing and eating animals is amoral

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Sentience is just a feature like gills or leaves, they are not us, you don't own them, they are fair game. I crave I eat.

    Stop acting high and mighty for being a childish picky eater. You are no better than any of us. Been using toilet paper to wipe your ass? The Lorax would like to have a few words with you.

    I enjoy eating fried beef brain, my favorite offal.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why?

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah, Namegay, you're right. Please become malnutritioned and switch over to Reddit while you're at it. I heard they know a lot about onions milk over there

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why should I care if animals die or feel pain? I already consider it a given when it comes to eating meat.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Why should I care if animals die or feel pain?

      Would you like to see your dogs legs broken in front of you and it crying?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >dog
        Belongs to me. I care when my things get broken.

        >Why should I care if animals die or feel pain?
        Caring about animals distinguishes people with souls from hylics.

        >souls
        No such thing, schizo

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Why should I care if animals die or feel pain?
      Caring about animals distinguishes people with souls from hylics.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Would you like to see your dogs legs broken in front of you and it crying?
    Of course. I don't have a dog but if I had one I would no doubt care about and feel sebtimental over it because that dog is a companion to me, not because it's an animal. You don't give as much of a shit about a stranger as you do family. Same logic here. Not all animals are equal to me.
    >Caring about animals distinguishes people with souls from hylics.
    Caring about companion animals and caring about prey items is not the same.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Meant for:

      >Why should I care if animals die or feel pain?
      Caring about animals distinguishes people with souls from hylics.

      >Why should I care if animals die or feel pain?

      Would you like to see your dogs legs broken in front of you and it crying?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >caring about prey items
      you fricking larper I dare you to go out there and kill all the animals you eat with you own hands. You are not a predator, you are an armchair chauvinist.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I called them prey items because we prey on them but you fell into an incoherent rage because you get upset over wording lmao.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >never went hunting/fishing before
        Poor city slickers, sheltered from the joys of reality....

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Antinatalism means sterilizing/euthanizing every conscious living beings to eliminate all suffering.
    It is immoral to let conscious life continue to suffer on Earth

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well good luck being Vegan OP, just don't feel too bad when your meat cravings eventually buck break you into partaking of the flesh.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >carnivorecure
      >nutrition with judy

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >killing animals bad
    >killing israelites good
    Lmao hilarious

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      animals bad
      israelites good
      >Lmao hilarious
      Indeed Hitler is a joke of a person.
      People seem to forget that Hitler cared more about animals than people, killed more white people than israelites, didn't drink alcohol but abused an early form of diluted meth etc.

  17. 2 months ago
    Chud Anon

    im trans btw, my pronouns are she/her

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The weak should fear the strong

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Mistreating animals is morally wrong. Proper sacrifice and consumption is morally acceptable.

    From a religious perspective animal sacrifice is present from the book of Genesis. Actually god performed the first animal sacrifice. When he expelled Adam and Eve from the garden they were poorly covered with fig leaves, but he had mercy on them and made them garments of skin. Which implies that animals had to die for humans to survive.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is mistreating potted plants morally wrong?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes. All live has the intrinsic will to live. Plants grow towards the sun, they thrive when cared for and even react to being talked to. Mistreating living beings is by default morally wrong. We should not afflict avoidable harm on other creatures. That being said, there are differences in degree of sentience. And mistreating plants is not the same as mistreating animals.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        but we cannot provide infinite resources for all living things. The oak tree reaches out and blocks the grass's sunlight. Compared to the trillions of life forms and 100s of millions of years of life on earth, it is of miniscule importance, it is a fool's errand to even try. We are simply projecting our sense of morality developed between conscious humans onto animals and plants.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >We are simply projecting our sense of morality developed between conscious humans onto animals and plants.
          And how is that a bad thing? We are extending our compassion to all living things, because we are humans and we are capable of compassion. If anything that shows that we are indeed nature's (or God's) best creation.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because is like a firefighter neglecting an inferno to save a cat stuck up a tree.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What exactly is the inferno in your allegory?

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    reminder

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      No, I'm pretty sure killing of mosquitoes that cause malaria is fine. It's not placing animals at the top of the moral hierarchy above everything, so guide, and guard dogs are fine. You won't be needing sheep livestock in "vegan utopia" anyway, and as for spearchuckers- I guess they will have to bow down to the settler BVLL, like they have been consistently doing over the long arch of history.

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why? It‘s not immoral, since it doesn’t go against our traditions, which is what determines moral and immoral behavior.

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    gay

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Its nature, if a carnivore could kill you it would, same logic applies. Besides you arent killing the animal yourself, you are just eating its remnants.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      So I'm free of any moral repercussions as long as it is not I who does the killing, even if I'm directly financing and profiting from it? Is Stalin not responsible for any of the millions that perished under his rule, because he himself didn't pull the trigger?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah you are, theres nothing you can do about it, if you dont purchase that meat somebody else will, your action does not matter and never will, might as well profit from it.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          If everyone were to stop buying meat, the industry and the injustice against creation would just collapse. If everyone thinks like you, nothing will ever change.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah and? My individual action will not change anything nor can I (or anybody for that matter) to convince a large enough amount of people to actually affect the Market. Thinking that it would is ridiculous Idealism.

  25. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    this is the redditest thread I've seen on this entire website

  26. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I feel you bro.
    I don't have a solution.
    Kind of makes you realize why that whole "original sin" thing resonates so well with some people, subconsciously we realize our lives are built on murder.

  27. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    burger tasty

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why is it immoral

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    All animals were made to serve us, we are the lords of the earth, plain and simple.

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Are you also starting to think you should wear women's clothing?

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It sometimes saddens me how most people's mind is so narrow that they cannot recognize the beauty in anything that doesn't look like themselves.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >beauty
      You can find beauty in nature but also in what you call "animal suffering" which the fast growth and fattening of species domesticated thousands of years ago for their consumption. I find it marvelous how we achieved such a feat

      If the reason eating meat is immoral is because of animal suffering, imagine one day we can make infinite meat in the lab. Do you agree that not only we should stop eating meat, we should also ensure that carnivores eat this lab grown meat too? I mean, no animal would need to suffer ever again, right? But what then? maybe put every carnivore in fenced areas so that they don't hurt the herbivores. We would need to castrate most of those animals too, since overpopulation would become a problem. Evolution would stop and mutations would be randomly passed to the next generation if we don't genetically engineer them. Most of their activity is usually related to mating and hunting for predators, and mating and avoiding being hunted for herbivores, so they're now with nothing to do. Castrated animals living in fences, bored out of their minds. At least they're not suffering anymore. Reminds me of the experience machine thought experiment. I'm not even making a point, just thinking out loud.

      >animal
      So it's amoral, morality deals with human interactions.

      Artificial meat, once perfectioned, will become for the standard animal protein source of the poor and space workers. Natural animal meat will be a delicacy for the rich and an occasional treat on festivities for the middle class.
      If Humanity keeps a steady course of technological progress it is bound to happen and will contributes to the colonization of outerspace beyond the confines of Earth's orbit. Not only could we grow flesh for consumption but flesh for organ and tissue repair as well, call the future man a ship of theseus cause he'll go beyond the restrains of aging and DNA decay by replacing all the parts that fail him.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I can recognize the beauty in the cow as she lives as well as in the steak she is eventually turned into.

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If the reason eating meat is immoral is because of animal suffering, imagine one day we can make infinite meat in the lab. Do you agree that not only we should stop eating meat, we should also ensure that carnivores eat this lab grown meat too? I mean, no animal would need to suffer ever again, right? But what then? maybe put every carnivore in fenced areas so that they don't hurt the herbivores. We would need to castrate most of those animals too, since overpopulation would become a problem. Evolution would stop and mutations would be randomly passed to the next generation if we don't genetically engineer them. Most of their activity is usually related to mating and hunting for predators, and mating and avoiding being hunted for herbivores, so they're now with nothing to do. Castrated animals living in fences, bored out of their minds. At least they're not suffering anymore. Reminds me of the experience machine thought experiment. I'm not even making a point, just thinking out loud.

  33. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It is but I also don't like vegans even more.

  34. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think you need to get testosterone checked because you're either a woman or a homosexual.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why would a woman get her testosterone checked?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        My mother had to, made conceiving complicated she had to take medication to birth me and my siblings. Made her fat too, or so she claims.

  35. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You’re almost there! Soon you’ll learn that just existing as a human is immoral. You know what to do to remedy this!

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