Critics of the South-Africa often like to cite that the apartheid only benefited the white population, but after 30 years of no apartheid, blacks live...

Critics of the South-Africa often like to cite that the apartheid only benefited the white population, but after 30 years of no apartheid, blacks lives have not improved, and whites have had their quality of life significantly reduced.
You cannot, in good faith, call the end of the apartheid a success

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  1. 3 months ago
    support ukraine

    Economy and society are complex. There is no reason to believe south african decay was is consequence of the end of apartheid.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      South Africa used to make nuclear technology
      Armoured vehicles
      They pioneered new kinds of surgeries
      Etc etc etc exactly like any western European country does but now they don't have stable electricity and the entire country is fricked

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        They still make armored vehicles.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Denel is absolutely fricked mate much like south Africa

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          No they don't. It was all bought up by Rheinmetal and Saudis. There are no SA defense companies left.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >No they don't. It was all bought up by Rheinmetal and Saudis. There are no SA defense companies left
            The Saudis and Germans bought shares in those South African weapons manufacturing companies.
            Its still South African Research and Development.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Nope. Denel is not a defense company anymore, it's a holding company paying off its former assets to its investors. The defense companies are owned by foreign companies and not called Denel anymore except for "Rheinmetall Denel Munition" which has policy of not hiring South African passport holders because of the poor reputation of newgrads.

            >Airbus DS Optronics (Airbus Defence and Space owns 70% and Denel holds 30% of the shares)
            >Rheinmetall Denel Munition (Rheinmetall holds 51% and Denel holds 49% of the shares)
            >Turbomeca Africa (Turbomeca owns 51% and Denel holds 49% of the shares)
            >LMT Holdings (Denel holds 51% of the shares)[9]

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Show where the R&D, manufacturing,profits from sales are not in South Africa?
            The South African government holds the export permits for any weapons sales to foreign countries and can decline any sale as in the the case of Poland

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Show where the R&D, manufacturing,profits from sales are not in South Africa?
            Show where they are.
            >The South African government holds the export permits for any weapons sales to foreign countries and can decline any sale as in the the case of Poland
            So?

            SA arms exports is 220m. I.e. it doesn't export arms.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Rheinmetall Denel Munition" which has policy of not hiring South African passport holders because of the poor
            reputation of new grads.
            The same Rheinmettell/Denel that manufactures artillery shells in it's South African plant for Ukraine and also recently signed a contract worth €60million for the South African 155mm Assegai munition?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The same Rheinmettell/Denel that manufactures artillery shells in it's South African plant for Ukraine and also recently signed a contract worth €60million for the South African 155mm Assegai munition?
            Yes, the same German company that does those things to get around EU regulations.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes, the same German company that does those things to get around EU regulation
            Germany is part of the EU and NATO, anon.
            The EU is fully aware of in which European defence firms are manufacturing weapons that eventually makes their way back to Europe.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Germany is part of the EU and NATO, anon.
            So? Do you not understand yet that the German government, NATO and the EU all hate white native Europeans?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Nailing sheet metal and barbed wire to your car so you can drive through the township without being raped is not making armored vehicles.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >South Africa used to make nuclear technology
        Isreal helped South Africa to develop nuclear weapons.

        >Armoured vehicles
        Still and continue to export to foreign countries.
        "Armored vehicles continue to be a key element of South Africa’s arms exports, a government report indicates.
        The National Conventional Arms Control Committee (NCACC), a government agency overseeing South Africa’s arms trade, said in its first quarter 2019 report that between January 1 and March 31, 38 locally made armored combat vehicles were delivered abroad to four customers. Mali purchased 19 vehicles at a cost of ZAR55 million, while Saudi Arabia acquired 15 vehicles, the U.S. procured three, and the UAE acquired one.
        DefenceWeb,which reported on the NCACC document, noted, “The NCACC does not provide any information on type of vehicles, whether it is armed and with what or whether it is new or used.”
        Mali received29 Casspir armored personnel carriers (APCs)in July (outside of the first quarter), but these were donated from Germany. The UAE signed a contract forfour Mbombe 4 armored vehiclesin February 2019, at IDEX.
        Other items exported in the first quarter of 2019 include 20 large-caliber artillery systems, which went to the U.S. (13), Jordan (4), and Oman (3). DefenceWeb reported that these systems were “probably either Denel’s G5 or G6.” In total for the period, NCACC approved over 200 export permits for 37 customers, at a total value of over ZAR1 billion.
        Armored vehicles remain a key source of income for the South African arms industry, which has struggled in recent years amid low domestic procurement. Last year, 26 countries purchased 137 armored vehicles from the South African arms industry. The U.N. acquired another 120 for Somalia’s government. Many of the importing countries are utilizing the vehicles to support counterinsurgency campaigns."

        >Etc et

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          They export them to Egypt it's not like it's keeping the electricity on

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They export them to Egypt it's not like it's keeping the electricity on
            The article says that South Africa exports to multiple Middle-Easter countries including 3 to the US.

            Thats besides the NATO standard mortar bombs, ammunition and artillery shells that's sold to Germany, Turkey , Indonesia,Kuwait,Jordan and Malaysia.
            South Africa recently suspended weapons delivery to Poland.
            Impressive for a country that can't keep the lights on.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Was South Africa really dominating the defense export market in the 80s? Maybe they were, but I dunno.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >South Africa used to make nuclear technology
        Isreal helped South Africa to develop nuclear weapons.

        >They pioneered new kinds of surgeries
        South Africa successfully reverse engineered the Moderna COVID vaccine including making improvements to it.

        >The new space telescope was built in 2008.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Jarvis, pull up the racial composition of the people who built/developed all of that stuff

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Proceeds to move goalposts

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            If you show me that black people are developing science and new technologies in SA, i will eat dirt and leave the thread

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If you show me that black people are developing science and new technologies in SA, i will eat dirt and leave the thread
            Here you go.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >TELL THE CHILDREN! THIS IS WHAT A REAL SCIENTIST LOOKS LIKE!

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            If you show me that black people are developing science and new technologies in SA, i will eat dirt and leave the thread

            >Aiem Atestmonké, lead researcher on reverse engineering the vaccine
            >Mónkei Enaroketshep, lead developer of the space telescope

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Neither of these made up names are even Bantu names lmao.

            Why are you shilling for Black folk you know nothing about? Just vague support for genocidal monkeys?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Aiem Atestmonké
            >Mónkei Enaroketshep
            kek

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Isreal helped South Africa to develop nuclear weapons.
          Other way around. The design was built by SA who also developed the first pebble bed nuclear reactor technology.
          >South Africa successfully reverse engineered the Moderna COVID vaccine including making improvements to it.
          Bullshit. They still bought MODERNA, SA did not reverse engineer it, the Chinks stole the tech from MODERNA and it's a version that doesn't work.
          >The new space telescope was built in 2008.
          MEERKat was built by White researchers and engineers and only funded to get to host the lucrative SKA funded and built by Europeans.

          Since heavy AA policies the CSIR has completely crumbled and lost all international funding. It's little more than a tax laundry scheme for the daughters of politicians now with little to no international reputation.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Other way around.
            And who were the South African scientists behind South Africa's nuclear weapons program if they actually developed it?

            >The design was built by SA who also developed the first pebble bed nuclear reactor technology.
            Kek. South Africa 's only nuclear reactor was developed and built by France.

            >South Africa successfully reverse
            engineered the Moderna COVID vaccine including making improvements to it.
            >Bullshit. They still bought MODERNA, SA did not reverse engineer it, the Chinks stole the tech from MODERNA and it's a version that doesn't work.
            Only because Big Pharma threatened to sue and Western nations threatened South Africa with sanctions if the country went ahead and used the copied Moderna vaccine.Doesn't change the fact that South Africa was the first nation to reverse engineer the Moderna vaccine. If China had copied South Africa's design then they would have had more success in defeating COVID.

            >The new space telescope was built in 2008.
            >MEERKat was built by White researchers and engineers and only funded to get to host the lucrative SKA funded and built by Europeans.
            Don't see problem. At least present day South Africa actually has a space program unlike Apartheid South Africa's non-existent 'Space Program 'on paper.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        The only thing White supremacists predicted incorrectly was how fast it would all collapse. They thought it would be two to three generations, not one.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was the implementation of neoliberal polices.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Name a prosperous country run by Black folk.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Seychelles
        Botswana
        Cape Verde

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          None of those are successful outside the minds of reddit. Seychelles is a tourist destination. Botswana is a cattle farm with a GDP per capita of 6,805.22 USD. Cape Verde has a GDP per capita of fricking 3,293.23 USD.

          What you meant to say was
          >Reddit told me that these aid reliant shitholes are succussful relative to other black countries!
          And you are just as ignorant as they are or any tourist in the Bahamas that imagines locals have the living standards they enjoy in hotels.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            They are very successful and prosperous in their own right, they just don't hold up to western standards of success and prosperity, but those standards just aren't realistic, globally, HDI ends to rise over time in both Africa as well as the western world, which means the western world will always have a higher level of development when compared to Africa

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >they just don't hold up to western standards of success and prosperity
            Right, so as I said you don't view Africans as human and treat them like agentless animals who should have a different standard and be coddled like pets.

            You want to hold this turbo racist opinion while at the same time you play the Marxist acting as if black South Africans did see massively increased living standards under Apartheid from what they had before. The were given much for free from Whites who didn't owe then anything to begin with and you centrally you complain that they weren't given more.

            Well Africans have been constantly benefitting from White and now Chinese tax payer money for centuries, it's time that that stops and the WMF is dissolved.

            >HDI ends to rise over time in both Africa
            This isn't true. HDI has stagnated or even declined in most African countries since the end of the colonial era.

            They are getting more White money than ever, they just lack White rule. I don't want to see a return of the latter, but I definitely want to put an end to the neocolonial injustice of the former.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Seychelles
        Botswana
        Cape Verde

        Gabon

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Modern economies rely on intellectual capital. That is not a complex statement.

      High IQ countries like East Asia and Europe does well. As Western countries import lower IQs they are getting worse due to the burden on the state.

      Africa's GDP per capita today is LOWER than it was in 1960s.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Africa's GDP per capita today is LOWER than it was in 1960s.
        Source?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      you sound israeli

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >support ukraine

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >South-Africa

    Just heard on NPR the other day that the unemployment rate in South Africa among young people is now at _60%_.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >but after 30 years of no apartheid, blacks lives have not improved
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/143036/21-ways-life-in-south-africa-has-improved-since-1994/

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Black lives are also worse. Morr blacks living in slums than ever before. Inequality higher than ever. Trash everywhere where there was once green spaces. Education standards below that of Bantu.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Show where they are.
    Are the South African defence manufacturing companies based in Germany and Saudi Arabia or in South Africa?

    >The South African government holds the export permits for any weapons sales to foreign countries and can decline any sale as in the the case of Poland
    >So?
    Thought Germany and Saudi Arabia had acquired most of the South African defence firms? But somehow don't have a desicion making on where the weapons can be sold? Thought the Germans and Saudi's were tough negotiators.

    >SA arms exports is 220m. I.e. it doesn't export arms
    What's this

    >South Africa used to make nuclear technology
    Isreal helped South Africa to develop nuclear weapons.

    >Armoured vehicles
    Still and continue to export to foreign countries.
    "Armored vehicles continue to be a key element of South Africa’s arms exports, a government report indicates.
    The National Conventional Arms Control Committee (NCACC), a government agency overseeing South Africa’s arms trade, said in its first quarter 2019 report that between January 1 and March 31, 38 locally made armored combat vehicles were delivered abroad to four customers. Mali purchased 19 vehicles at a cost of ZAR55 million, while Saudi Arabia acquired 15 vehicles, the U.S. procured three, and the UAE acquired one.
    DefenceWeb,which reported on the NCACC document, noted, “The NCACC does not provide any information on type of vehicles, whether it is armed and with what or whether it is new or used.”
    Mali received29 Casspir armored personnel carriers (APCs)in July (outside of the first quarter), but these were donated from Germany. The UAE signed a contract forfour Mbombe 4 armored vehiclesin February 2019, at IDEX.
    Other items exported in the first quarter of 2019 include 20 large-caliber artillery systems, which went to the U.S. (13), Jordan (4), and Oman (3). DefenceWeb reported that these systems were “probably either Denel’s G5 or G6.” In total for the period, NCACC approved over 200 export permits for 37 customers, at a total value of over ZAR1 billion.
    Armored vehicles remain a key source of income for the South African arms industry, which has struggled in recent years amid low domestic procurement. Last year, 26 countries purchased 137 armored vehicles from the South African arms industry. The U.N. acquired another 120 for Somalia’s government. Many of the importing countries are utilizing the vehicles to support counterinsurgency campaigns."

    >Etc et

    then?

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >but after 30 years of no apartheid, blacks lives have not improved

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like I've read this before on this board, more than once in fact

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    how did black life improved when they weren't allowed to go to college or live in cities.

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >but after 30 years of no apartheid, blacks lives have not improved

    >Source: Everything but African people

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'll never understand how people can care so much about the country they don't live in.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      To feel better about themselves because their own lives suck.

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    capital flight and brain drain + nepotism and corruption

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