Mathematicians know mathematics. Physicists know mathematics AND physics. Engineers know mathematics AND physics AND engineering.

One guy I know is a nuclear engineer. Super smart. Graduated high school at 15. When I needed help with calculus, I asked him for help. When I need help with my physics coursework, I ask him for help. Heck, when I needed help with electrical issues at my house I asked him for an opinion and he was 100% correct although I decided to hire a certified electrician at the end to do the actual work just because doing it officially and having all the papers makes things easier when selling the house.

Dear GOD/GODS and/or anyone else who can HELP ME (e.g. TIME TRAVELERS or MEMBERS OF SUPER-INTELLIGENT ALIEN CIVILIZATIONS): The next time I wake up, please change my physical form to that of FINN MCMILLAN formerly of SOUTH NEW BRIGHTON at 8 YEARS OLD and keep it that way FOREVER. I am so sick of this chubby Asian man body! Thank you! - CHAUL JHIN KIM (a.k.a. A DESPERATE SOUL)

I feel that the mathematics and physics community dislikes engineers because they are jealous of them. An engineer can do the job of both the mathematician and the physicist but a mathematician cannot do the job of the physicist or engineer (the physicist might be able to do all three jobs if he/she takes a few engineering courses though).

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The shitty math and physics knowledge you acquired as an engineer is only a small part of what they teach to math and physics students. Also the Venn diagram you put here literally shows this, are you too stupid to see it?

>The shitty math and physics knowledge you acquired as an engineer is only a small part of what they teach to math and physics students.

If i wanted to finish college early i could just get a math degree, but I wont because that would just be an easy copout

>Dear GOD/GODS and/or anyone else who can HELP ME (e.g. TIME TRAVELERS or MEMBERS OF SUPER-INTELLIGENT ALIEN CIVILIZATIONS): The next time I wake up, please change my physical form to that of FINN MCMILLAN formerly of SOUTH NEW BRIGHTON at 8 YEARS OLD and keep it that way FOREVER. I am so sick of ŤŮțqlbrhbht'vegt'lebuqagadwh chubby Asian man body! Thank you! - CHAUL JHIN KIM (a.k.a. A DESPERATE SOUL)

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>ŤŮțqlbrhbht'vegt'lebuqagadwh

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you have to be 18 to post

>Engineers know mathematics

*calculation methods

>Physicists know mathematics

>Engineers know mathematics

Many future mathematicians knew more math than engineers when they were in high school.

Mathematicians know mathematics. Knowing physics and engineering often comes as a bonus.

Physicists know physics and pretend to know math while not being able to tell a rigorous argument apart from a fallacious one. (Laundau-Lifschitz books are the prime example of this)

Engineers don't know anything.

>Engineers don't know anything.

Pic related is the table of contents for "Advanced Engineering Mathematics 5th edition". It's 1,100 pages in length and covers multivariable calculus, differential equations, PDEs, linear algebra, probability and statistics, real and complex analysis, and Fourier analysis.

Why is there such a huge difference in content between 4th and 5th edition? Is this really the same book?

Same author but the first is the advanced version for graduates and advanced undergraduates and the second is the general version for undergrads. The second one is just titled "Engineering Mathematics 4th edition" - i.e. I should have removed the "Advanced" part of the filename.

That makes sense.

Where is algebra, differential geometry, topology, number theory, numerical analysis, discrete math, measure theory, functional analysis?

You just learn what every math undergrad learns in their first year kek.

Maybe not a regular engineer (although already knowing multivariable calculus would allow an engineer to learn e.g. differential geometry if they wanted to) but a computational physicist would definitely be familiar with many if not most of the subjects you listed (especially differential geometry, topology, and discrete math).

matrices and vectors are only a tiny portion of (elementary) linear algebra. I'm assuming it's all in R^3, but if I am wrong then I will eat my words

Nope everything is in R^n

woah, R^n!? Jesus, man. i was wrong tho

So basically a sample of the stuff studied by math and physics majors in their first and second years of college? Well, I guess it might impress Art and Sociology majors who only have to take Intro to Stats for Liberal Arts Majors.

I would count PDEs as advanced level math since you need ODEs, multivariable calculus, and ideally some linear algebra and complex analysis as prerequisites. They are considered to be a notoriously difficult subject by many people regardless of major.

If you want to go beyond bachelor's level then certain engineering fields (e.g. nuclear engineering) can also involve some very high level math like differential geometry and tensor calculus (pic related). But the average engineering undergrad won't study these topics unless they take them as electives.

Then you have 'research engineers' at places like Intel that are sort of like hybrid engineer/physicists and might have PhDs in areas like solid state physics or materials science for example. These guys are officially engineers who do engineering but might have had exposure to very advanced math like group and representation theory during their graduate studies.

there are entire classes in postgrad and undergrad dedicated to just specific kinds of pdes. the "advanced" pdes you take aren't advanced by math standards. in fact nothing in undergrad mathematics is considered advanced by math standards.

You simply can't compete with someone whose entire curriculum is mathematics. while you were fiddling with autocad and the oscilloscope, mathchads were developing foundations and mastering proofs.

there is only so much you can learn in 4 years

This is less than half a typical math undergrad degree. It's also watered down below what a mathematician would deem acceptable for learning.

sorry to disappoint you bro but math undergrads here in europe learn all of these (among other pure math topics) in their first 3 semesters.

don't get me wrong, these are hard and some questions can be borderline sadistic but there is way more in mathematics that engineers are missing

Dude it's impossible to know Physics without being a God at math. It is not like engineering full of route memory shortcuts, the accuracy level and creativity involved in solving Physics problems is superhuman.

People who study physics aren't required to prove shit. They are basically oblivious to how math has been built for the past 3000 years.

A good engineer should be a competent mathematician and physicist, but don't expect him to know shit about some purely theoretical aspects of maths of physics. That is reserved for people with autism and those who want to siphon funds doing jack shit.

Are there any documentaries on the history of engineering? 200 years ago there was basically just architecture, and it probably didn’t use math. By 100 years ago, they were building trains, battleships, skyscrapers, bridges and much more, probably involving a little math. Then obviously now we have very complex engineering involving math.

No. We have been using math in engineering for milennia. In bridges, aquaducts, weapons, ships, pyramids, steamboats, babbage machines, telegraphs and more. The ancient egyptians for example actively used math to build stuff and irrigate crops. All great civilizations made use of math and engineering, which allowed them to gain an advantage.

Do you have any book sugggestions about your claim?

I would say this thread proves Physics > math

I got interested in higher math trying to build a facial recognition system (coding). The deep learning and computer vision papers were pretty mathy if I remember correctly.

P.s. I did build some pretty cool AI projects in my time.

Physicist here. In undergrad I had pretty much all the math classes that mathgays had except for meme classes like euclidean geometry, logic or number theory. Algebra, topology, functional analysis, differential geometry, Fourier analysis? Had them all. Even got to learn some algebraic topology and representation theory on the side since the math department had NO undergrad classes for these topics. This fact alone makes my eyes roll any time someone says math > physics. Perhaps decades ago that was true, but nowadays math courses are all dumbed down to appeal to morons going into teaching.

>nowadays math courses are all dumbed down to appeal to morons going into teaching.

Absolutely true, but not a math-specific phenomenon. That's just the natural result of treating university as a mandatory vocational program for high school graduates not interested in trades. I'm suspicious of anyone who claims their specific field is immune to this.

What field are you in now?

Currently in first year of master's degree and doing a project on condensed matter physics with a professor but am planning to change to another field.

Isn’t mechanical engineering or the sorts just the bare basics of physics? Kek

Mechanical engineering is highly advanced physics.

Highly advanced physics is quantum physics, material science, solid-state physics, condensed matter physics, particle physics and astrophysics.

Mechanical engineers only learn classical mechanics and thermodynamics and electrical engineers only learn electromagnetism and basic solid-state physics.

>Mechanical engineers only learn classical mechanics and thermodynamics

In some shitty college from the boonies maybe. Material science and solid-state physics are major parts of MechE.

>Material science and solid-state physics are major parts of MechE.

Wonder how they learn that if they don't know quantum mechanics KEK

Physicists learn enough mathematics to study physics. Engineers learn enough physics and mathematics to practice engineering. The differences may start to blur at higher levels of education, e.g. a mathematician studying theta functions and a physicist studying quantum field theory may end up converging in research interests, but in general it's unreasonable to expect that an engineer knows as much about physics as a physicist or that either knows as much about mathematics as a mathematician.

>I feel that the mathematics and physics community dislikes engineers because they are jealous of them.

Possible, but not for the reason you describe. Engineering programs tend to attract people who want to be upwardly mobile, that is they chose to study engineering so they could make a lot of money. In terms of motivation, it's a lot closer to being a premed than being a math major or physics major. That's not to say that the motivations of math and physics majors are necessarily more 'pure', but they're different, which creates friction when these different people share classes. If anyone's jealous of engineers, it probably has more to do with money than knowledge: think "why does this dipshit think he's going to make 6 figures when he can't even write a proof?" more than "damn, he understands thermodynamics AND materials science?"

Wrong, none of those people know mathematics

What do math phys gay do for a living?

This is pretty quality bait. So if it is trolling good job on that.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

More than half of the classes engineers take are theoretical unscientific bullshit about infrastructure, process, the electrical grid, cement-ology, client negotiation, etc.

I have respect for physicists, chemists and biologists because they are still pure science and they know their place.

Engineers on the other hand, are always overly confident without the merit to back their confidence. Pure dunning kruger's effect. That's why a lot of pseudoscientists tend to be engineers.

Bros, physics or cs degree?

Depends on your intelligence. If you are high IQ studying CS will feel like being in hell. Otherwise choose CS

Are the career prospects of physics grad comparable to a CS grad? I feel that most physics grad just end up working in academia.

>Are the career prospects of physics grad comparable to a CS grad?

Yes, tech companies keep poaching physics grads from my university. I've also seen quite a few going into accounting firms.

Are you saying that people in CS are low IQ?

High quality bait

You guys should know the difference between engineers and scientists.

Engineering is trade school tier. Shouldnt even compare it to actual sciences.

>i spread myself thin

>yeah well i spread myself thinner!

lol cool story bro

physicists are the Black folk or STEM

>nobody wants them there

>start Black personblabbering about some dumb shit they can't prove

>muh light speed muh disregard friction disregard everything

>just leeches of mathbros

>shits on everyone else about how important they are for society

>cries because wypo gooberment doesn't spend 10 trillion tax payer dollars on new particle accelerator

Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been.

Engineering is quite different from science. Scientists try to understand nature. Engineers try to make things that do not exist in nature. Engineers stress innovation and invention. To embody an invention the engineer must put his idea in concrete terms, and design something that people can use. That something can be a complex system, device, a gadget, a material, a method, a computing program, an innovative experiment, a new solution to a problem, or an improvement on what already exists. Since a design has to be realistic and functional, it must have its geometry, dimensions, and characteristics data defined. In the past engineers working on new designs found that they did not have all the required information to make design decisions. Most often, they were limited by insufficient scientific knowledge. Thus they studied mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology and mechanics. Often they had to add to the sciences relevant to their profession. Thus engineering sciences were born.

4th year EE student

I realized that yes I know A BIT of math/physics, but I also realize what I don't know, and it's a lot. To a normalgay it all looks the same but if you're in academia for long enough you appreciate the differences.

If you go for engineering and expect to compete in the theoretical science fields then you are pretty dumb.

The same way I wouldn't want my airplane being designed by a bunch of physicists.

Engineering is the only one that matters. Math is cool if you are a quant. Who cares about physics in the real world unless you are a geek.

Tbh all the top tier scientists, mathematicians, engineers and physicists were great at other subjects too. Take the example Knuth "The art of computer programming guy" some would categorise him as an engineer as he wrote many compilers and invented Tex. But he studied mathematics in college.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth

I majored in math for two years before switching to computer engineering and I must admit that engineering and physics are much harder than math.

It's not because of the complexity of the topics, but the way they're taught.

In maths everything is taught in a very structured, logical and concise language, it's hard at first but once you et the hang of it, it makes sense and you wouldn't want it in any other way. Every new topic always starts with a motivation instead of throwing everything at once without providing reasoning.

I have never had a bad math professor in those two years, all of them were clear, helpful and solved examples step by step during lectures.

every single CE professor i had this year was shit

You left math degree just to be a Verilog/VHDL codemonkey? Kek

I grew up and realized that money is all that matters. A math degree without a high gpa and not from a top uni is utterly useless.

Dude you could at least study some fancy EE shit like antennas, RF circuits, radar, optics, solid-state physics etc.