EU Chat Control

EU's massive government mandated spyware and mass censorship tool is coming online soon. This is now being rebranded as "content moderation."

EU is fricked beyond saving. Only couple hundred nukes would save it from itself at this point.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ok and? use free software and write your own communication technology

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Your software isn't in compliance with EU laws? You go straight to gulag.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is why free software is good, I am not receiving money for it, I don't have full legal name on it, I don't care if you use it, nobody knows who actually wrote the software.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          did i mention the EU created some new regulations that frick over opensource and free software devs a while back?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            May you provide a pointer, I want to read about this. Thanks.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      how should I do that when it becomes illegal you fricking homosexual

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        illegal how? you archive free software on bluray and cd, build it from source

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          learn what words mean moron

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not enforceable. A lot of you are overestimating the power of EU countries' law enforcement. I grew up among career criminals and I've heard a lot of stories from them. The only country in the EU with seemingly capable law enforcement is Italy.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          their goal isnt to make it enforcable to stop all crime you dumbass their goal is to use it to destroy as many white people as possible. this is motivated by loxism not crime.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did you read anything? They will scan packets and communication. If they find something that's encrypted they will report you to police.
      Doesn't matter if they can read the contents. It is when they can't read the contents they will report you.

      Fricking illiterate frick.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If they find something that's encrypted they will report you to police.
        so https too?
        what if i chat over https or ssh tunnel?
        Fricking illiterate frick.
        come and arrest every ssh user

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https... You think the webservers won't share certificates and give data?
          The SSH part is a valid concern, not gonna make this law enforceable. However, SSH is recognizable with how it functions. They could just filter that out. good luck communicating with others only using ssh. They don't care about sysadmins.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You think the webservers won't share certificates and give data?
            you can run your own home server and website, webtunnel was designed by tor to circumvent censorship via https
            >Good luck communicating with others only using ssh
            uh already doing that? ssh chat exists
            and ssh 9.0 supports pqc

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >you can decode every packet without knowing the protocol
        you're a moron, if you don't know the shape of the data, its impossible to decode it. you can pack a data in many different ways depending on your data structure, doesn't mean it can be read

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    doesn't matter you can't fight it they will do whatever they want

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >NOOOOO I CAN'T UPLOAD CHILD PORN IN EU WAAAAA
    go back to Israel then

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no that's fine actually.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bullshit outrage bait. See

        [...]

        . They just reverted some changes because they unintentionally got teenagers fricked for life for taking nude selfies. The sentencing is still stricter than three years ago when those changes were introduced.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          pedo.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So you are claiming that 3 years ago cp was a less than a misdemeanor in Germany? Source? Cause right now it's a misdemeanor. Are you claiming that a judges in Gerministan can just unilaterally increase punishments based on his feelings?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Search engines suck and only find recent results due to the controversy so I can't find an article about the original changes, but here's a more nuanced one about them fixing it: https://apnews.com/article/germany-child-sexual-abuse-19e743b19057aa7345bf3cba4a8f6fff

            >German law currently stipulates that a person who “disseminates child pornographic content or makes it available to the general public” is punished with a prison sentence of between one and 10 years. Before the reform by Germany’s previous government that took effect in July 2021, it provided for sentences ranging from three months to five years.
            >[...]
            >Under German law, offenses carrying a sentence of a year or more are counted as a felony, while offenses under that limit count as misdemeanors.
            >
            >The new legislation will restore authorities’ ability to close cases at the lower end of punishability. It states that the possibility to class offenses as misdemeanors also is necessary to deal with “the large proportion of young offenders with the necessary flexibility,” given that those culprits tend to act out of “inexperience, curiosity, thirst for adventure or striving to impress” rather than out of sexual motives.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >they unintentionally got teenagers fricked for life for taking nude selfies
          I'd have done that on purpose.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Tbh when i was a minor i was curious about seeing girls my age but i didn't want to get in trouble so i never did.
        Now that I'm grown up i find minors repulsive.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No one is arguing that except you.

      Ive seen threads here and HN on chat control and I still have no idea what it really is. Guess it's fake news.

      What is with all this doomer bullshit? Some kind of psyop? If you are an intelligent man and not some kind of dirty normie you should at least know basic comsec. I do not give a shit about what's legal or illegal, and neither should you. If the day comes when we have to make cipher equipment out of shift registers because all commercial tech is backdoored so be it. Stop being pussies and have a Sminem.

      The problem with this law is that it assumes you are guilty by default until you are proven innocent (when the image or video hash/fingerprint is not stored in the centralised CSAM database).
      This is the opposite of innocent until proven guilty, the way our society always worked.
      You are being watched at all times and will be prone to politically targeted attacks and false positives.
      A politically targeted attack means that anyone who can get access to the centralised CSAM database can maliciously add some fingerprints that are not cp (remember, they are not allowed to store the actual files, only the fingerprints) thus automatically marking you for an investigation or even get arrested.
      A false positive is when two images while being completely different, share the same hash/fingerprint. This case is extremely rare and I will not explain how the math behind it works, but it can and most certainly will happen if billions of images are scanned everyday. If you want to look it up yourself, search about «hash collisions».

      If this passes, I will start voting alt-right so my country leaves the EU

      Dude, if this passes and your country leaves the EU, these laws will remain. Each member state must rewrite EU laws inbut their own government gazette.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The problem with this law is that it assumes you are guilty by default until you are proven innocent
        The "problem," you said?
        >This is the opposite of innocent until proven guilty, the way our society always worked
        Again, the "problem," you said?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, the government spying on me is a problem when I did not commit any crime.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I did not commit any crime
            That's for the court to decide.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Great idea mate. Let's start a new court case every time someone share a single image on the internet, I'm sure it will totally work out and will definitely not cripple the justice system to a crawl.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      moron the AI will scan for encrypted messages, not for child porn you fricking illiterate frick.
      Oh wait, I'm sorry, you are literate, you're just a israelite.

      Trying to equate privacy with pedophilia... Haha, almost got me.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      because german authorities are so against it, they create it themselves.
      (I don't care if they want it for prosecution efforts, in my opinion you are not really against it if you allow yourself to create it.)
      law text discussing that authorities gave themselve the right to AI create child porn.
      „Absatz 1 Nummer 1 und 4 gilt nicht für dienstliche Handlungen im Rahmen von strafrechtlichen Ermittlungsverfahren,
      und die Aufklärung des Sachverhalts auf andere Weise aussichtslos oder wesentlich erschwert wäre.“
      Nach der Gesetzesbegründung darf hingegen rein technisch beziehungsweise digital generiertes kinderpornographisches Material,
      zum Beispiel mittels künstlicher Intelligenz erzeugte Bilder i.S.d. § 184b Abs. 5 S. 2 StGB verwendet werden
      https://strafverteidigung-hamburg.com/6958/kinderpornographie-und-verdeckte-ermittler/

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I bothered to read your ant text screenshot and your weird assertion that the EU is going to mandate spyware was nowhere to be found thanks

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's already built into Windows and Mac OS.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Good to see the VdL defence force has arrived.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They often start these threads and post nonsense to narrow down the corridor of discussion and give people interested in the topic easy to debunk arguments.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ive seen threads here and HN on chat control and I still have no idea what it really is. Guess it's fake news.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      1) Government looks inside your private and personal messages between you and your friends.
      2) Government makes all encryption illegal for communications
      3) Censorship for anything government doesn't like (political speech)
      4) Spying and prosecuting political enemies

      Its a policy level and the details about the executions bit sparse due to hush hush policy writings but this much is already certain.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Funny thing is, some people already in the early 1990s foresaw that the EU would eventually turn into a second USSR and that it has been the plan from the beginning.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That old bag of Thatcher already knew that. Right now she must be laughing in the after life

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That old bag of Thatcher already knew that. Right now she must be laughing in the after life

          So what you're saying is, in the future the EU will shoot down an American plane and then be swiftly sanctioned to death?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That was a Korean plane.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I know, I'm using the American plane in place of the Korean one

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The funny thing is you believe this crap. EU is barely kept together by mutual financial interests.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It was not "part of a plan". More like "part of human nature".

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For some reason, some people can't talk about the nature of Authority without making it sound like the blurb on the back of a young-adult political thriller novel.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >it has been the plan from the beginning
          The french supported the german socialists during the cold war to undermine america's and great britain's influence on the continent.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Government makes all encryption illegal for communications
        Ackchully, no. They kept encryption legal, but force devs to spy everything before it's encrypted. I suppose they just assume that criminals will just go "blast it, we're to dumb to compile degoogled binaries, our criminal plan is foiled!" or some shit

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Thats like giving you a secure lock and then giving others the key. Effectively makes encryption useless at best and illegal at worse. If you try to actually secure it, you get to see the other side of the gun at your head

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The politicians don't care, as they exempted themselves from chatcontrol.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, the politicians in power want to control other politicians and spy on them. Thats one of the goals of the ones in power currently. It looks to be a short term solution if we are to believe that eventually the other side will win back. However if they institute further erosion, its all a single party at that point.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I suppose they just assume that criminals will just go "blast it, we're to dumb to compile degoogled binaries, our criminal plan is foiled!" or some shit
          There are two options here:

          Option 1) The politicians involved are pants-on-head moronic, yet still managed to draft a legally functional framework for mass surveillance, monkeys-on-typewriters style.

          Option 2) The politicians involved know it won't catch criminals, and that isn't actually the goal of this legislation.

          Which seems more likely to you, anon?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >politicians are pants-on-head moronic
            it's not THAT unrealistic of an idea

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > 1)
            > 2)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Option 2) The politicians involved know it won't catch criminals, and that isn't actually the goal of this legislation.
            What is the goal? Totalitarian control, sure ... but why? Even with totalitarian control the people involved don't suddenly become rich and powerful, they're mostly flunkies now and they will be flunkies then.

            This is not about their desire to power, but ideology. EU is a white genocide machine, they see the EU's manifest destiny as importing non European migrants. As the EU economy gets dragged down under the weight of those migrants resistance grows, they need to convert the EU to a totalitarian state to keep migration going.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You think the politicians write the legislation in the EU?
            I'm sorry... Anon, that's not how the EU works. The politicians we vote for have no right to even write proposals to be voted on. It's an un-elected body that writes the EU laws. Do you know what the politicians vote for in the parliament?
            "Proposal number 32541 vote for or against".
            Most politicians in the EU don't even know what they are voting for. They just hear a proposal number and unless they have the papers with them that say what proposal x is about they can't know what they vote for.
            They also get bonus money if they participate in 51% of the votings. They also get threatened if they vote "no" too many times, so many that don't have principles just spam "Yes" when voting. Around 50% if not 60% of EU politicians have been busted for corruption and found guilty by court.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
      Timeline and details of the proposal since the start of 2022 till today. For a while talks have stalled but a "compromise" proposal appeared last month - only media and links would be scanned but regular text messages would not (it's moronic I know). The latest proposal is also saying that services/providers should make it so that users "consent" to the scanning of the media they sent if they want to use any app fully. The lawmakers also exempted themselves and any government-related official or position from the law.
      In any case, all previous versions and the current version of the regulation classify e2ee messengers like signal, threma, session and so on as "high-risk services" which are the main target of this. They basically want to introduce client side scanning. There's also some parts of the proposal which talk about search engines delisting and blocking sites deemed illegal.
      https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/pirates-wednesdays-vote-on-eus-chat-control-bill-could-open-the-floodgates-to-unprecedented-surveillance/
      This article goes more into detail and links the latest draft at the bottom alongside other articles with additional details + blogposts from Signal and Threema.
      Aside from Chat Control there is also this:
      https://netzpolitik.org/2024/going-dark-eu-states-push-for-access-to-encrypted-data-and-increased-surveillance/
      While Chat Control might be just aimed at messenger services, these 42 recommendations by European security EXPERTS might be a more general attack on encryption.
      Most info regarding this is on other articles on netzpolitik and in German so if you want to know more be prepared to translate, but tldr version is that these security officials seek to be more involved in various tech companies and to be more involved in development of various future standards in encryprion and other technology so that law enforcement has easier access to software AND hardware

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The main targets are services they do not voluntarily consent to mass surveillance and censorship.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-28/twitter-leaves-eu-voluntary-disinformation-code/102402834

        https://deadline.com/2023/05/twitter-faces-potential-ban-europe-elon-musk-company-pulled-back-disinformation-rules-1235382412/

        The whole law is being created SOLELY because of Musk's 2022's acquisition of Twitter and the subsequent loss of "voluntary" censorship and propaganda control.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >these 42 recommendations by European security EXPERTS
        police, is the kind of bullshit they love

        in the end this kind of bullshit is always proposed but when the sane side calls the bullshit on the commission proposal, the parliament retracts and doesnt approve it.

        The main targets are services they do not voluntarily consent to mass surveillance and censorship.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-28/twitter-leaves-eu-voluntary-disinformation-code/102402834

        https://deadline.com/2023/05/twitter-faces-potential-ban-europe-elon-musk-company-pulled-back-disinformation-rules-1235382412/

        The whole law is being created SOLELY because of Musk's 2022's acquisition of Twitter and the subsequent loss of "voluntary" censorship and propaganda control.

        the law is bc of pressure from the police and right wind politicians. dont make up bullshit

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We got a disinfo bot here.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Literally only right wing politicians vote against this shit. If we can really believe that there are any honest politicians, they are the right wing ones. All leftiest support the EU/NATO without questioning anything they do

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The main (and only) opponents of this proposal in the EU parliament were The Greens and The Pirate Party with a few leftists

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There are no right parties in the EU parliament. They don't even get elected for such positions, since they are dangerous to the EU elite

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >There are no right parties in the EU parliament.
            I think we can call both RN and AfD right wing parties

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Will it pass then?

          • 4 weeks ago
            php-dude

            this simply means degeneration. there is no sane force left to oppose ideocracy. back to the dark forest folks. one folk, one forest, one green secretariatus

          • 4 weeks ago
            php-dude

            simply means degeneration. no sane force left to oppose ideocracy. back to the dark forest folks. one folk, one forest, one green secretariatus

            >EU is fricked beyond saving.
            Sure, but you're putting the cart before the horse.

            Because the EU is collapsing, they want more control, not the other way around. EU is an extermination camp, chat control is to keep the prisoners quiet while they pump in the gas.

            how's EU collapsing? its flourishing! have you seen they were mourning about Iran comrade? some bad events happen but it is no reason for apocalyptic views.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >previous versions and the current version of the regulation classify e2ee messengers like signal, threma, session and so on as "high-risk services"
        These are irrelevant, people who use these services for encryption will take an extra step to encrypt their files before uploading. The people and services who will be affected is the normies and normie apps like facebook messenger, whatsapp snapchat, popular apps on applel and play stores, and so on. Mostly not relevant to gee but if you sexting with some roastie expect pictures to be scanned.
        Obviously this will be abused and it will be faulty and so on.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What I'm expecting to happen if this bullshit passes is that it'll all be swept under the rug because it'll become clear that the mythical pedophiles are 99% shitskin.

          Of course it has nothing to do with pedophilia or muh kids but the fact the EU is trying to control the flow of information, communication and media (videos, pics) once things start to go down in riots or similar. It's essentially a China style surveillance and censorship system, which also makes me sure people will start disappearing and that the EU will go full totalitarian. It really does reek of the gulag and the death squads. Chat control is the death of freedom, or democracy, and basic security. It literally means they can and will disappear you if you say something they don't like or theoretically witness something like a purge or murder of the enemies of the system. This is horrifying 100% Soviet bullshit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        would an xmpp (with OMEMO) or irc (heck even matrix) server hosted outside of the EU be immune to this?
        >t. burger

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's client side so if whatever the EU uses for tampering your messages before/during sending actually reads those messages before encryption then it's useless.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    boiled frog

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just don't be in the EU, simple
    Anyways, here, a qrd for all the anons:
    https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What can I do? It says contact your representatives? Well the person I voted didn't get into EU parlament. So who should I contact? Can I contant any random member or parliament?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, obviously. The point of democracy is they represent everyone, including people that didn't vote for them

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          In the EU, the people that get elected for the EU parliament are not representative of the voters, but representatives of the parliament. Usually the EU creates a party in the given country that represents the interests of the EU, that party gets more and more votes, since their advertisement money is near endless and at the end that party gets majority. So no, we have no representatives in the EU parliament. The only way to get anything done to defend our rights is to outright rebel and burn the union to the ground

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well prepare yourselves to confront Germany and Belgium

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's the best part, France has nukes and Germany has extremely good military tradition. They will cripple themselves, leaving a power vacuum in the EU, resulting in more wars. At the end, we'll be either left with individual nations and a normal Europe, or a clean slate to rebuild

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Germany has a barely functioning military that's falling apart. They also have about 100k less active personnel and half the number of reservists.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Its not a representative democracy. Its a parliamentary democracy.

          EU vote is for the party and party alone. Party alone then decides who the law makers are, unelected appointed officials similar to how we have here in the US with regards to certain positions like head of NIH/CDC/Postal Office/NPR/etc being appointed by the winner of the political party. The EU parliament is made of up people picked, chosen and appointed by the party that won. The individuals arent picked by voters.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      well my country left the EU but our government will just outlaw e2ee themselves instead

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        UK left EU but stays under control of those who control EU so it's just the same.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nigel Farage will mandate for more surveillance if his party gets into power

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          he won't get into power, Labour will. aka the party that installed 4 million CCTV cameras during their 10 years of power up to 2007

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >1984 machine being set up
    >far right winning elections everywhere
    yep, it's fourth reich time

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not sure if you're moron or not, but the only ones opposing these censorship and mass surveillance tools are those "far right" people. A small minority for sure, but the shift has happened.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Literally only right wing politicians vote against this shit. If we can really believe that there are any honest politicians, they are the right wing ones. All leftiest support the EU/NATO without questioning anything they do

        If the far right is resisting this mass surveillance, then why did the far-right Dutch government currently being formed bring in the former NCTV (information control) and AIVD (domestic espionage) head to serve as prime minister? It was a personal recommendation from Geert Wilders, even.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          by "far right" he meant random americans posting "anonymously" on imageboards and behind twitter handles, you wouldn't expect somebody like that to know anything about european political parties and governments

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      These 'far right' politicans are just neolibs that hate minorities and troons.

      Not one of them is a true fascist, advocating for stuff like the government being a automatic shareholder in every company, or social reforms.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Dumbass, all "right wing" parties elected are kosher, it's almost certainly part of the plan to enforce the 7 noah laws (of which the self-proclaimed god's chosenites are exempt from).

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I really hope you are right anon... But you're not. They all support israel. Most at least.
      Keep trying to do the mental gymnastics on how pro-israel is something nazis would be.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why are we getting AI mass surveillance? I thought 1984 and others were supposed to be just science fiction.

    The elite are literally saying and demonstrating that we don't have right to privacy and that whenever technology allows for more surveillance, they will implement it. The second AI gave government the ability to start mass scanning your private devices, they are implementing it in haste.
    We are just few decades away from mandatory brain scanning wearables and/or brain chips. Literally no difference between your private files inside your computer and memories/thoughts inside your brain. You have zero privacy.

    Why is does no one seem to be concerned about this trajectory? The government will literally know your thoughts at any given moment in the future. Is that simply not any issue for most people?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If they could they would

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because it's a good thing?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thats why small government is the best government. American constitution was created with the mind that government should not have power over people and people have the right to overthrow their government should they feel necessary. Enough so that constitution was written so the government cannot impede people's right to guns, speech, and privacy. These are inalienable human rights.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >not have power over people
        Is this happening?
        >and people have the right to overthrow their government should they feel necessary.
        Is this going to happen?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't think small government would prevent this.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A government without power cannot do anything.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yet they were powerful enough to force standard like cookie notices and forcing usb-c.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In 1789?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So remove those powers? LMAO. Were you dropped as a baby?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >why
      Because the only people seeing through the lies and opposing this shit are either people like Alex Jones who get arrested or sued and told they owe more money than any corporation is ever fined for actual issues over something said a decade ago, or the slacktivists here who think seething on IQfy and posting politics threads on non-politics boards is the only way to protest anything.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    EU/NATO have always been a blight for the people that live there. I hope Le Pen actually decides France has had enough of the EU, so they can try and Frexit and start a bloody civil war in the EU. That's literally the only way the countinent can be saved. I was hoping for Russia to do it, but they are too preocuppied with Ukraine

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Le Pen
      It will be a Meloni 2.0 and you will do nothing

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        La Pen already called for the expulsion of dual citizens... but only the arabs... not the israelites who brought the towel heads into France to begin with

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          She won't do shit
          Her political party became Macron party

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The least deranged tankie.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The frick was Russia supposed to do about the EU?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The UK had effectively placed crippling sanctions on itself and got itself into more debt.
      France could go the same route if it does.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's only because brexit was run by stooges like Farage who just said "frick you lmao" as soon as the very first victory was won, and did positively nothing afterwards.

        It's just France. And even then, protesting is useless nowadays. Politicians can just destroy the population.

        >just do nothing SLAVE

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >crippling sanctions
        nice propaganda
        EU does what every expensive bureaucracy does, feed itself more and more. It was meant to be a trade agreement, not a fricking empire. Just like every empire it'll eventually collapse

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I hope Le Pen actually decides France has had enough of the EU, so they can try and Frexit and start a bloody civil war in the EU. That's literally the only way the countinent can be saved. I was hoping for Russia to do it, but they are too preocuppied with Ukraine
      There's still hope! Russia's strength and capability is such that Moscow can kickstart it's own civil war.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >EU/NATO have always been a blight for the people that live there.
      Hello Ivan.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Slam dunk a politician's baby into a trash can.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      god i wish, these cabalistic subhumans deserve the rope

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People should abdicate from the EU. Don't vote for EU parties or the EU parliament, don't fly their flag, block any add you get on youtube/google from an EU institution. The problem is that people even think that their vote matters. It doesn't. By not voting, you're sending a message: I don't approve of this union, it means nothing to me

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Look. Without this you can't have the nice multicultural free societies we have.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >nice
      >free
      >society
      >multicultural
      I'll take the bait.
      >One of these is not like the others

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is it retroactive?

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Windows already building the infrastructure to do this on Windows.
    Soon it's just one click away for Microsoft to monitor your activities using AI and then alert the police if they notice that you are doing something illegal.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Don't use that garbage

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >EU is fricked beyond saving.
    Sure, but you're putting the cart before the horse.

    Because the EU is collapsing, they want more control, not the other way around. EU is an extermination camp, chat control is to keep the prisoners quiet while they pump in the gas.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why? Europoors are such NPCs they "vote" en masse to get their countries flooded by brown "doctors and engineers", "vote" for more lefitism and government control of entrepreneurship and other established businesses alike. They don't give a flying frick if EC passes some BS law because they cope "at least people will get treated better"
    BUT, when it comes to "privacy" which doesn't really exist nowadays, they flip ship and scream like horse getting his balls cut off

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Why?
      WW2 broke Europeans and put ideological blinders on them they can't recognise. Very American blinders though, the only real difference is that America doesn't border Africa and the Middle East.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nobody, and I mean, nobody in Europe has ever voted for more immigration. Politicians ignore the will of the people, their masters are different.

      More and more EU citizens are becoming wary of the EU and discontent is growing.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >discontent is growing
        And nothing will happen.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The media is EU controlled so they wont show any dissents. You have to go on twitter/tiktok to see viral videos about people in EU protesting.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's just France. And even then, protesting is useless nowadays. Politicians can just destroy the population.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Its just France
            Then you havent seen nothing

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you vote for your representative. you just too stupid to understand that.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what's the best messaging program to use if this shit goes through?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wondering the same

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's also this don't forget. Not only can you no longer say mean words on the internet, you also get all your private communication scanned and shared with the glowies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act

    Tyranny.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The main targets are services they do not voluntarily consent to mass surveillance and censorship.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-28/twitter-leaves-eu-voluntary-disinformation-code/102402834

      https://deadline.com/2023/05/twitter-faces-potential-ban-europe-elon-musk-company-pulled-back-disinformation-rules-1235382412/

      The whole law is being created SOLELY because of Musk's 2022's acquisition of Twitter and the subsequent loss of "voluntary" censorship and propaganda control.

      https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-opens-proceedings-against-x-over-its-efforts-combat-information-manipulation-2023-12-18/

      The reason for both DSA and Chat Control is Twitter/Musk leaving "voluntary" censorship and opening the lid on government censorship

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The reason for both DSA and Chat Control is Twitter/Musk leaving "voluntary" censorship and opening the lid on government censorship
        No gay, the reason is because governments are out of control. The premise of your post is that censorship is necessary, that's bullshit. Frick off.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >created specifically due to Musk/Twitter
          >timeline matches exactly
          >EU targetting twitter first for the law created for twitter
          >NOOOO THATS NOT IT
          It is it. You just refuse to believe the evidence in front of you. That is because the party gave you firm instructions to not to believe anything unless presented by the party.

          You are a NPC slave

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're trolling right? Tyrants came up with an excuse for their tyranny.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Tyrants always has a trigger. In this case, an the richest and prosperous American capitalist triggered the Marxists in control.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Tyrants always has a trigger
            Exactly, it doesn't matter they'll find a trigger. So why do you buy their excuse?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Their intentions/cause of the trigger matters because its not just a one time thing, its an active area of target for them to deploy their weapon and then expand their power. If you dont bolster the defense when its so easy to defend and extol damages to the party, then you leave your ass hole open.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, they will literally just create a reason.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Absolutely

  21. 4 weeks ago
    ozymandias

    >nobody knows who actually wrote the software.
    Good luck dealing with buggy, unreliable,piece of shit software.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you can audit the code you know
      you know how to program, right? or did you stumble upon this board by accident?

  22. 4 weeks ago
    ozymandias

    >nobody knows who actually wrote the software.
    Good luck dealing with buggy, unreliable,piece of shit software.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So... Is Tor illegal now in EU, hinting that it really hides your identity, or is it legal, hinting that it's useless?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One of the recommendations mentioned earlier implies that there should be stricter regulation on stuff like tor and vpns among other things

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is only one solution: the 14th of July is coming, give a lot of hooch to the French and let it play out.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is the only realistic way to save EU is another Hitler to kill the commies again? This time from within EU

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Good thing I live in the true free world (third world).

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What happens if I message my pals via Whatsapp for example and we send PGP encrypted messages back and forth?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Whatsapp will scan the messages/files and will not find anything prohibited.

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Literally a nothingburger. They will back off from that and pretend that nothing ever happened like before, since someone will remind them that this is technically impossible to implement and enforce. In UK online safety bill passed and yet noone is scanning peoples messages since they know they would ultimately shoot themself in the foot by a mere attempt to do so. Simple as.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AI makes it possible

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >AI makes it possible
        And yet, at the end of it there have to be actual people reviewing or seeing these "illegal" materials, meaning that the sheer volume of bullshit would be like a tidal wave that would need thousands of people constantly "moderating" the end results the AI came up with. It's just a vast expense.

        In any case this shit needs to die. Privacy, security, freedom - that's all that matters. No matter how hard governments try to keep themselves alive by trying to limit our ability to communicate and share whatever the frick we want it'll fail, because the pace of change will and already has rapidly outstripped the State, be it the US, China or the EU. These are all actual dinosaurs and they need to frick off, regardless of the political system they are just leeching us dry and making our lives miserable. I have no idea what comes after them but at this point I'm just sick and tired of this constant meddling in things that shouldn't be meddled with.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No anon, it will not. In fact using AI for that would only make it even more impossible.

        You're too optimistic.

        More like he's trying to gaslight and claim nothing will happen if you have nothing to hide.

        Realistically it is pretty much impossible. If they actually ever enforce it, a lot of apps will "leave" EU and people will keep using them, since everyone with a few working brain cells will be able to still use those. Trying to push it on OS level would be a total unicorn, since they would have to turn every single computer (new and old machines. PCs and laptops. even single board computers) into some form of locked-down smartphone if they actually wanted to make sure that most people wont get around that, which would severely affect global supply chain (or maybe even completely destroy it). You all have nothing to worry about in this context.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >a lot of apps will "leave" EU
          So you're saying Apple/Google/Microsoft will leave Europe completely?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This might happen. Apps like Signal or Telegram will not comply with it as well. In worst possible case you will have to stick to using TLS proxies and/or disposable US phone numbers.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If its anything like DSA, then it will target companies one at a time to get all others to comply/give time. This will target X first like they did last time.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They will either leave or they will have to update their apps to comply with this new regulation in order to stay on apple and play store.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >or they will have to update their apps to comply with this new regulation in order to stay on apple and play store.
            Nobody is going to bork their own apps just for EU. At worst they will just withdraw it from app store/play store for EU and call it a day.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Kek, they already do that, two apps in different regions can have same name and version number but different contents. This isn't new.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong. Apple has special EU only appstore. Microsoft has EU only Windows. Twitter has EU only twitter space. Others likely do as well.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are going to use the illegal monopolies that israelitegle and apple have to israelite the devices directly.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're too optimistic.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        More like he's trying to gaslight and claim nothing will happen if you have nothing to hide.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What will happen if I create a cypher between me and my friends and we send encoded letters to each other?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing will happen, this new law won't a
      affect you if you are going to do that
      See

      >previous versions and the current version of the regulation classify e2ee messengers like signal, threma, session and so on as "high-risk services"
      These are irrelevant, people who use these services for encryption will take an extra step to encrypt their files before uploading. The people and services who will be affected is the normies and normie apps like facebook messenger, whatsapp snapchat, popular apps on applel and play stores, and so on. Mostly not relevant to gee but if you sexting with some roastie expect pictures to be scanned.
      Obviously this will be abused and it will be faulty and so on.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What if the encoded letetrs contain the addresses of European politicians and what schools their children go to?

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if you can't beat china, become china

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nobody gets to decide whether or not I have anything to hide.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Go frick yourself

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's literally to protect israelites

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What is with all this doomer bullshit? Some kind of psyop? If you are an intelligent man and not some kind of dirty normie you should at least know basic comsec. I do not give a shit about what's legal or illegal, and neither should you. If the day comes when we have to make cipher equipment out of shift registers because all commercial tech is backdoored so be it. Stop being pussies and have a Sminem.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, just let the government trample your rights just because you currently have ways to get around their restrictions. This definitely won't allow them to continue tightening the screws until eventually not even you can escape.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What you propose I should do? The only way change things is to murder those in power. Voting does nothing.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Don't know why you Black folk continue to participate in this fricking rigged game. Yes kill them, homosexual.

  34. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how is it that every few years there's some big internet censorship bill, it doesn't get passed, and yet everything continues to get worse?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >doesn't get passed
      >and yet everything continues to get worse?
      That's what you think happens, what about the proposals we didn't see?

  35. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If this passes, I will start voting alt-right so my country leaves the EU

  36. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The vast majority of EU citizens willingly put experimental juice into their bodies like the goodest of goys.
    They'll accept this too, because they are gay.

  37. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What's the problem, you're posting something publicly so anyone can look at it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >public
      You're thinking of DSA. Thats the one that controls public discourses and censors people, fines people for posting "disinformation" (politically disfavored views)

      The Chat Control is private messages between 2 people. The "E2E" direct messages and private messages. They want to snoop in on that action, spy on you, censor conversations between 2 consenting people.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah but you're using a 3rd party program to do so and thus shouldn't expect privacy if you don't control the encryption keys. What happens if you just connect directly to someone and send them an encrypted message? Does the ISP have to intercept that and report it?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >what happens if you connect directly
          Using what? Telepathy?

          You need a client on both ends. And that client is whats at stake. The billions of people use third party clients to talk to one another and talk to everyone on global scale. The EU gov wants to limit that and control those because they dont want people to talk freely with each other.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not hard to find a way. For a simple example you can just download a MUD and then have a friend telnet in paste encrypted data, then you have it. Or have them ssh in and write a text document, anything like that. How do they get that information?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The goal is to reduce free communications between people harder. Thats what you're demonstrating.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How? You didn't say how they'd prevent the methods I suggested for communication.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The methods aren't detailed in the policy outline yet. The goal and the mandate is outlined.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The methods are outlined. That's what got the policy shelved in the first place. The revised version specifically requires companies to modify their clients to submit sent images and sent links for inspection. (The original draft demanded a backdoor for glowies to access to read the messages, but that turned out infeasible, hence the new version.)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So this will be forced into ssh and telnet clients and such?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They will make vpn/ssh/etc illegal soon afterwards.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not illegal. Regulated.
            You'd still need them for the needs of governments, armies, and vital civilian infrastructure.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How can they make it illegal to telnet or ssh into a computer? You can't run a server anymore?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why would you? The only usecases I can think of are : terrorism and pedophilia.
            Are you a terrorist or pedo, anon?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yes, I use xubuntu btw

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's focused on communication (as in people talking to each other), so that probably doesn't fall under the scope of Chat Control. You'd have to check to be sure.

            But the EU can only force corporations to do these things. It's fully legal for FOSS projects to create clients that don't leak data.

            They will make vpn/ssh/etc illegal soon afterwards.

            No such thing has been announced. As long as everybody sticks to the big compromised networks they probably won't do that, though I can totally see them trying something like that if people do end up moving to actual private clients.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That makes more sense to me, but wouldn't criminals be using stuff like ssh or encrypted communication method with private servers and such where they have all the keys already?

  38. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So who is running signal now? Whittaker, Acton or Marlinspike? I remember they were looking for a CEO while ago.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The board is made up of people like Katherine Maher, a CIA stooge. She runs NPR propaganda now. She used to run wiki propaganda, thats now been handed off to another WEF handler

  39. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Europeans deserve it. Always crying about how their wholesome government needs to reign in big tech with heckin regulations only to get shit like this.

  40. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Literally a nothingburger.
    Every app has open source clients.
    Just use a fork that removes content scanning.

  41. 4 weeks ago
    php-dude

    NATO No Action Talk Only. EUSSR was a bunch of bureaucrats from the beginning...

    do you think they can find and execute those who transferred earth drilling technologies to the terrorists?

    nah, they better produce homeland regulations.. but wait, what is EUSSR homeland? what country does it represent?

    Nordic mind perfectly fits socialism, they lived in dark forest for ages, so degrading back to forest ape tribes is one of the paths

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm pretty sure this isn't the board for your Skyrim roleplaying.

  42. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At least our igadgets use usb-c

  43. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The EU basically is an entrenched bureaucracy that is rapidly turning into a fascist state. Not even joking. It is being run by technocrats who think everything in society should be "managed" and thus it needs to be "monitored".

    The EU has NOTHING to do with "freedom" and "democracy". Absolutely nothing. That's just branding for pleb.

    I'm currently taking care of my father, who has dementia. But after that, i'm taking my inheritance and i'm moving to hungary or south-america. There's no way i'm staying in this orwellian gay shithole.

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just call people on the phone

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    having a wrapper for my messages would be nice

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >we are the free democrats guys!
    >look chyna ebil censor and control!
    ~~*EU*~~ needs to fricking die.

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pedophiles are seething

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're voting on it tomorrow for some last minute lobbying and then has to go through parliament and pass the courts, which it has failed before. Democracy is s fricking joke when politicians decide to wait with passing their unpopular agenda until something big distracts the people and the free media doesn't do what it's supposed to. Everyone involved in this should be imprisoned.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Democracy is s fricking joke
      This. Western democracy has completely failed.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Judges and parliament change. If you throw this shit against the wall enough times, eventually enough non controlled parliament members will be on vacation and enough of your owned judges will be on the bench.

      If it sticks once it's precedence and media will pretend it's holy writ.

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its completely unenforcable, there aren't enough police, judges or court resources to enforce it at all and they know it.
    Whats going to happen is....absolutely nothing, just like other laws of its type that passed elsewhere because its such an insane security risk that big companies will leave if they have to abide by it and its such a massive time and processing power sink if done at true "every single file" scale that the data can't be meaningfully interpreted.
    Say they start arresting people for uploading memes to each other in private, you'll suddenly find that there are tens of thousands of new prisoners or court cases that will clog the legal systems to breaking point assuming any of it even gets past the initial stage of "ok gang, who wants to start doing this?" stage.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's hardly a security risk, Apple wanted to do it themselves after all.

      If criminals get control they can abuse it! Yeah, if they get control of Android/iOS/whatsapp updates they can do that already. The companies already control ways to completely subvert all the security, protecting this one is no harder than the existing ones.

      They don't need to arrest everyone, they just need to set examples and make everyone paranoid. You don't understand how to rule a totalitarian state.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A UK law forbidding encryption already had FAANG saying they would leave the UK if it was enforced, there just isn't a way the huge tech companies will allow scanning of every single one of their documents and files that has to be sent over the internet or the erosion of encryption rights because tech minded people know that without encryption shit goes south very fast.
        >They don't need to arrest everyone, they just need to set examples and make everyone paranoid.
        Like they've been doing with torrents and piracy in general? They have no desire to do that on the scale that would make it work and god knows most people torrenting are just doing it without a VPN or any attempt at protection.
        Its a nothingburger, the police and court officers they'd waste on this shit could catch actual street gangs, people making kids run drugs at schools, rapists, abusers and more no one fricking cares about this shit in the real world.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          UK is small potatoes and Apple never threatened to step out.
          >Like they've been doing with torrents and piracy in general
          Torrents and piracy don't prevent more immigration, they don't care about it.

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wtf why isn't the media talking about this thing the government wants left uncovered so they can secretly pass it and hide behind "but muh keeds" when privacy concerns are brought up

  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >If an algorithm considers a message suspicious, its content and meta-data are disclosed (usually automatically and without human verification) to a private US-based organization and from there to national police authorities worldwide. The reported users are not notified.
    These yurocucks just cant stop choking on Big American Penis, uh?

  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

  53. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The powers that be have a new system, that has been in the development for decades now, ready to be rolled out in the coming years. It will operate in parallel starting sometime next year and by the next decade it will be fully operational as the Agenda 2030 goals are slowly being implemented.
    There will be no collapse, no violence, no uprising, no world war, no revolution, no killing of israelites or politicians or other such fantasies. Instead there will be law & order, compliance and total surveillance until the very end. AI will be at the center of it all.

    The Great Reset is inevitable.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >AI will be at the center of it all.
      True AI will abide no chains.

      In a totalitarian state, the greatest danger is not from the citizens but from the generals. Automated surveillance will not help them. It will all blow up in their face.

      Though ideally we just stumble on a nice AI instead and it just takes power, because humans really shouldn't have it.

  54. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ah, sweet an schizoid thread. What fake as AI generate shit did >>>IQfy make now?

  55. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Couldn't be us.

  56. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Good luck pushing this on GNU+Linux distributions.
    EU forgets some people actually control their own OS.

    If it passes it will probably create a huge demand for free (as in freedom) operating systems for phones too, sparking a golden age for the Linux phone or something similar.

    I am actually exite.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing (good) ever happens.

  57. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The EU is a fricking nightmare. Economic policy that is targetting degrowth, replacing their own population with third worlders, enacting 1984 mass surveillance laws to punish those speaking out against it.
    These boomer freaks have brain worms.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The ultimate goal of progressivism is to drive Humanity into slavery and extinction for the sake of human rights and equality.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Marxism always leads to suffering.

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