Europe was the location of the first civillisation

Europe was the location of the first civillisation

>In 4500 bc, before the first cities were built in Mesopotamia and Egypt, Old Europe was among the most sophisticated and technologically advanced places in the world ... At its peak, about 5000–3500 bc, Old Europe was developing many of the political, technological, and ideological signs of "civilization". Some Old European villages grew to citylike sizes, larger than the earliest cities of Mesopotamia ... Old European metalsmiths were, in their day, among the most advanced metal artisans in the world, and certainly the most active. The metal artifacts recovered by archaeologists from Old Europe total about 4,700 kilograms (more than five tons) of copper, and over 6 kilograms (13.2 pounds) of gold, more metal by far than has been found in any other part of the ancient world dated before 3500 bc. The demand for copper, gold, Aegean shells, and other valuables created networks of negotiation that reached hundreds of kilometers. Pottery, figurines, and even houses were decorated with striking designs. Female "goddess" figurines, found in almost every settlement, have triggered intense debates about the ritual and political power of women. Signs inscribed on clay suggest a system of primitive notation, if not writing.

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  1. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Europe was the location of the first (proto) writing system

    >The Vinča symbols or Vinča–Turdaș signs are a set of untranslated symbols found on Neolithic era artifacts from the Vinča culture and related "Old European" cultures of Central Europe and Southeastern Europe. Whether this is one of the earliest writing systems or simply symbols of some sort is disputed. They have sometimes been described as an example of "pre-writing" or "proto-writing". The symbols went out of use around 3,500 BC. These findings are important because the bulk of the Vinča symbols were created between 4,500 and 4,000 BC, with the symbols on the Tărtăria clay tablets possibly dating back to around 5,300 BC (controversially dated by association). This means that the Vinča finds predate the proto-Sumerian pictographic script from Uruk (modern Iraq), which is usually considered to be the oldest known writing system, by more than a thousand years. Analyses of the symbols showed that they have little similarity with Near Eastern writing, resulting in the opinion that these symbols and the Sumerian script probably arose independently.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Exactly OP!

      It's amazing how ignorant this board has become. It used to be D tier but it's slid by the wayside quite a bit. Future findings will fill in the history of the world by focusing on eastern and northern Europe, as we have already seen.

      Vinca symbols were the equivalent of cave painting symbols, not actual writing
      There was no civilization in Europe until europeans copied MENA civilizations, only mudhuts and savagery

      >Vinca symbols were the equivalent of cave painting symbols, not actual writing
      Then why do they repeat for several centuries at a time over a span of hundreds of miles?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        So do symbols from other pre modern illiterate societies, dumbass

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          You're making the argument for more pre-modern languages, not less. Thanks for proving my point, Europhobe.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Indus script
            >Banpo symbols
            >Rongorongo
            Those are all considered proto writing and have the same characteristics as the Vinca symbols, tell me what makes your wewuz vinca symbols so special to be considered actual writing?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Those are all considered proto writing and have the same characteristics as the Vinca symbols
            You just proved my point again.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            So the vinca symbols are just proto writing, the same as symbols in some far older cave paintings
            wow so civilized

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because hunter-gatherers are nomadic and move around?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >It's amazing how ignorant this board has become. It used to be D tier but it's slid by the wayside quite a bit.
        Yeah, because of wewuzzing homosexuals like you. The Vinca symbols do not constitute an actual writing system, and there are plenty of other cultures that used symbols, and long before the Vinca ones were ever conceived. OP's post that

        Europe was the location of the first (proto) writing system

        >The Vinča symbols or Vinča–Turdaș signs are a set of untranslated symbols found on Neolithic era artifacts from the Vinča culture and related "Old European" cultures of Central Europe and Southeastern Europe. Whether this is one of the earliest writing systems or simply symbols of some sort is disputed. They have sometimes been described as an example of "pre-writing" or "proto-writing". The symbols went out of use around 3,500 BC. These findings are important because the bulk of the Vinča symbols were created between 4,500 and 4,000 BC, with the symbols on the Tărtăria clay tablets possibly dating back to around 5,300 BC (controversially dated by association). This means that the Vinča finds predate the proto-Sumerian pictographic script from Uruk (modern Iraq), which is usually considered to be the oldest known writing system, by more than a thousand years. Analyses of the symbols showed that they have little similarity with Near Eastern writing, resulting in the opinion that these symbols and the Sumerian script probably arose independently.

        >Europe was the location of the first (proto) writing system
        Is just a blatant lie lol

        https://i.imgur.com/7PNnKcZ.jpg

        Europe was the location of the first civillisation

        >In 4500 bc, before the first cities were built in Mesopotamia and Egypt, Old Europe was among the most sophisticated and technologically advanced places in the world ... At its peak, about 5000–3500 bc, Old Europe was developing many of the political, technological, and ideological signs of "civilization". Some Old European villages grew to citylike sizes, larger than the earliest cities of Mesopotamia ... Old European metalsmiths were, in their day, among the most advanced metal artisans in the world, and certainly the most active. The metal artifacts recovered by archaeologists from Old Europe total about 4,700 kilograms (more than five tons) of copper, and over 6 kilograms (13.2 pounds) of gold, more metal by far than has been found in any other part of the ancient world dated before 3500 bc. The demand for copper, gold, Aegean shells, and other valuables created networks of negotiation that reached hundreds of kilometers. Pottery, figurines, and even houses were decorated with striking designs. Female "goddess" figurines, found in almost every settlement, have triggered intense debates about the ritual and political power of women. Signs inscribed on clay suggest a system of primitive notation, if not writing.

        I literally just told you to google it you lazy good for nothing homosexual.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols#:~:text=The%20Vin%C4%8Da%20symbols%20or%20Vin%C4%8Da,Central%20Europe%20and%20Southeastern%20Europe.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture

        Imagine being such a abonoxious homosexual that you dismiss an argument because you won't do a 5 second google search but insist on being spoon fed. Actually have a nice day.

        >Europe was the location of the first civillisation
        There was no state, there was no social stratification, and there was no true writing. It doesn't have any of the marks of civilisation. It was basically the same as the subsistence farmers in India. There simply was TOO much food to create a demand for actual organisation

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          >there was no state
          define state

          >there was no social stratification
          blatantly false

          >there was no true writing
          again blatantly false

          Find me a writing system as complex and as old as this. I'll wait. You are arguing from bad faith out of an inferiority complex likely because you are left leaning or non-European. These are accepted facts in academia you are going against with zero evidence of your own to discredit it.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >define state
            Why do you need me to hold your hand through something so simple? A state is a society with strong social stratification, with the upper echelons organising labour, public projects, taxes, etc. We know that the upper tiers of society in civilisations like the Sumerians had this, and that these people possesed a much larger share of wealth, had systems and symbols for accounting, kept track of grain etc. We see none of that in these early "proto-civilisations" you suggest existed in Europe

            >blatantly false
            No, it really is true. There are very few signs of social stratification in any of the places that you mentioned. All houses were of a similar size and there were no indication that there was some central "government" organising the city planning

            >there was no true writing
            >again blatantly false
            >These are accepted facts in academia you are going against with zero evidence of your own to discredit it.
            I am not going against the fact that the symbols existed, I'm arguing against the fact that they constitute a real language system. Even the Indus script isn't really considered a true language, and it is far more complex than those few symbols. It's not even a proto-language - it is at best simple symbolic communication, and at worst just literal ornament lol

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >A state is a society with strong social stratification, with the upper echelons organising labour, public projects, taxes, etc.
            So the Vinca civilization.

            >these people possesed a much larger share of wealth, had systems and symbols for accounting, kept track of grain etc.
            So the Vinca civilization.

            >All houses were of a similar size
            Except the ones that were larger, of higher quality, and contained more valuable goods.

            >there were no indication that there was some central "government" organising the city planning
            Other than the actual city planners that designed the plans of the cities, of course. And, y'know, the massive central building that clearly housed something of great importance given that it was at the center of each fricking city.

            >I am not going against the fact that the symbols existed
            You initially were and now you're shifting the goal posts.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So the Vinca civilization.
            You have not provided any evidence for any such upper echelon organising the state

            >So the Vinca civilization.
            Still no evidence, just feels. Literal wewuzzing

            >Except the ones that were larger, of higher quality, and contained more valuable goods.
            >And, y'know, the massive central building that clearly housed something of great importance given that it was at the center of each fricking city.
            Some of them did have a single communal building or temple, yes, but that's not evidence of a central government or even stratification. Would you say that any other of the religious buildings in the past that required a community effort are evidence of a state? Then places like Jericho have far older "states", except, of course, it is not actually enough to qualify as that, you idiot

            >Other than the actual city planners that designed the plans of the cities
            May I see them? There weren't any walls or even the close kind of space that creates a demand for city planning. They were literally just placed near randomly across an area lmao

            >You initially were and now you're shifting the goal posts.
            No? Are you a literal braindead ape? Can you go back in my post and find one time I argued against the existence of the Vinca symbols? I said that they are not a language or even a proto-language. Fricking Black person tier reading comprehension

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not Vinca, but related. The Varna cemetery has individual graves with more metal goods than the rest of the planet in 5th millennium BCE.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, it's interesting, but grave goods != civilisation, and a big part of this is also just geography. Egypt and Sumer has access to very ore rich locations locally

            >You have not provided any evidence for any such upper echelon organising the state
            I don't need to, someone already did. See [...]

            >Still no evidence, just feels. Literal wewuzzing
            You should've read the citations first.

            >Some of them did have a single communal building or temple, yes
            All of them did.

            >but that's not evidence of a central government or even stratification.
            Already proven wrong.

            >Jericho
            Is an older continuously inhabited human settlement but displays social stratification only after it shows up in Old Europe. Not that it matters because I don't doubt the fact that civilization can appear multiple times independently, it's not inherited.

            >May I see them?
            You didn't read the thread, you're welcome to do so.

            >Can you go back in my post and find one time I argued against the existence of the Vinca symbols?
            Yeah sure [...].

            >I don't need to, someone already did. See

            I literally just told you to google it you lazy good for nothing homosexual.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols#:~:text=The%20Vin%C4%8Da%20symbols%20or%20Vin%C4%8Da,Central%20Europe%20and%20Southeastern%20Europe.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture

            Imagine being such a abonoxious homosexual that you dismiss an argument because you won't do a 5 second google search but insist on being spoon fed. Actually have a nice day.
            Don't you think people are aware of these cultures on IQfy? It's basic history tier lmao. Simply being able to link to them does not make C-T or Vinca actual civilisations
            This is literally from the Wiki:
            >Members of the Cucuteni–Trypillia culture shared common features with other Neolithic societies, including:
            >An almost nonexistent social stratification
            >Lack of a political elite
            >Generally speaking craft production within the Vinča network was carried out at the household level; there is little evidence for individual economic specialisation.

            Do any of these quotes suggest an actual civilisation to you? You can twist its definition to suit you, but at that point, you are again literally just wewuzzing

            >>but that's not evidence of a central government or even stratification.
            >Already proven wrong.
            No, not already proven wrong. Find me an actual quote of a serious scholar that suggests that there is stratification LET ALONE a state. Your wikipedia links didn't do too well

            >Is an older continuously inhabited human settlement but displays social stratification only after it shows up in Old Europe
            No, it's an older settlement period

            >Yeah sure

            >It's amazing how ignorant this board has become. It used to be D tier but it's slid by the wayside quite a bit.
            Yeah, because of wewuzzing homosexuals like you. The Vinca symbols do not constitute an actual writing system, and there are plenty of other cultures that used symbols, and long before the Vinca ones were ever conceived. OP's post that [...]
            >Europe was the location of the first (proto) writing system
            Is just a blatant lie lol

            [...]
            [...]
            >Europe was the location of the first civillisation
            There was no state, there was no social stratification, and there was no true writing. It doesn't have any of the marks of civilisation. It was basically the same as the subsistence farmers in India. There simply was TOO much food to create a demand for actual organisation (You).
            And where in my post am I arguing against the actual existence of the Vinca symbols? Can you point out the exact line? The part where I said it is not a proto writing system? That's a fact, but do you for some reason think that symbols are the same as proto writing?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You have not provided any evidence for any such upper echelon organising the state
            I don't need to, someone already did. See

            I literally just told you to google it you lazy good for nothing homosexual.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols#:~:text=The%20Vin%C4%8Da%20symbols%20or%20Vin%C4%8Da,Central%20Europe%20and%20Southeastern%20Europe.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture

            Imagine being such a abonoxious homosexual that you dismiss an argument because you won't do a 5 second google search but insist on being spoon fed. Actually have a nice day.

            >Still no evidence, just feels. Literal wewuzzing
            You should've read the citations first.

            >Some of them did have a single communal building or temple, yes
            All of them did.

            >but that's not evidence of a central government or even stratification.
            Already proven wrong.

            >Jericho
            Is an older continuously inhabited human settlement but displays social stratification only after it shows up in Old Europe. Not that it matters because I don't doubt the fact that civilization can appear multiple times independently, it's not inherited.

            >May I see them?
            You didn't read the thread, you're welcome to do so.

            >Can you go back in my post and find one time I argued against the existence of the Vinca symbols?
            Yeah sure

            >It's amazing how ignorant this board has become. It used to be D tier but it's slid by the wayside quite a bit.
            Yeah, because of wewuzzing homosexuals like you. The Vinca symbols do not constitute an actual writing system, and there are plenty of other cultures that used symbols, and long before the Vinca ones were ever conceived. OP's post that [...]
            >Europe was the location of the first (proto) writing system
            Is just a blatant lie lol

            [...]
            [...]
            >Europe was the location of the first civillisation
            There was no state, there was no social stratification, and there was no true writing. It doesn't have any of the marks of civilisation. It was basically the same as the subsistence farmers in India. There simply was TOO much food to create a demand for actual organisation

            .

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >repeat some signs 4-6 times
            >add the cope rectangles
            >lookie there, isn't this a very large alphabet

  2. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    This is peak wewuzzery.
    Were these ancient people hyperboreans?

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      das rite, we wuz aryan kangz

      This is all substantiated by archaeological evidence and accepted by mainstream scholars. Go and google Vinca symbols or old Europe. It's literally all true.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >cites no sources
        >copes and seethes

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          The hittite iron age is the only thing here that can be said with confidence. They definitely invented it, even though someone like OP would consider a hittite a sandBlack person or wop or something

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          I literally just told you to google it you lazy good for nothing homosexual.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols#:~:text=The%20Vin%C4%8Da%20symbols%20or%20Vin%C4%8Da,Central%20Europe%20and%20Southeastern%20Europe.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture

          Imagine being such a abonoxious homosexual that you dismiss an argument because you won't do a 5 second google search but insist on being spoon fed. Actually have a nice day.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Vinca symbols were the equivalent of cave painting symbols, not actual writing
        There was no civilization in Europe until europeans copied MENA civilizations, only mudhuts and savagery

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          MENA stole civilization from Africa.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            North Africa* and Egyptians and Sumerians were contemporaries, pretty much all the basic civilizational advances come from MENA, eurangutans have to cope with this wewuz shit because they can't accept that MENAs created civilization as we know it

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          sounds like barbarian cope to me

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        I literally just told you to google it you lazy good for nothing homosexual.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols#:~:text=The%20Vin%C4%8Da%20symbols%20or%20Vin%C4%8Da,Central%20Europe%20and%20Southeastern%20Europe.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture

        Imagine being such a abonoxious homosexual that you dismiss an argument because you won't do a 5 second google search but insist on being spoon fed. Actually have a nice day.

        >Make claim
        >refuse to give a source
        You are a laughable moron

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      das rite, we wuz aryan kangz

      >cites no sources
      >copes and seethes

      VGH

      Why are you so mad?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        im not mad, i said VGH
        VGH is positive

        why are YOU so mad?

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    das rite, we wuz aryan kangz

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      WE WUZ

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Here's your proto-iranians bro

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          These are not iranians tho

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Indo-Europeans were the first to enter the Iron age

    >The earliest tentative evidence for iron-making is a small number of iron fragments with the appropriate amounts of carbon admixture found in the Proto-Hittite layers at Kaman-Kalehöyük in modern-day Turkey, dated to 2200–2000 BC. Akanuma (2008) concludes that "The combination of carbon dating, archaeological context, and archaeometallurgical examination indicates that it is likely that the use of ironware made of steel had already begun in the third millennium BC in Central Anatolia".

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      The paper from which that quote is from conflates proto-hittites and pre-hittites

  5. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    VGH

  6. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    shieeeeeeeet

  7. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    So what? Concurrent is what matters, and no culture from the past truly exists in the present. We pass the torch, and if your generation wants to die with it, someone will pick it up from your feeble corpse

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Concurrent is Western dominance. You can cope and seethe all you want about it being over for whitey but the fact of the matter is that outside of this shithole website, every colored is complaining about being oppressed by whitey and they have all the power.

  8. 4 months ago
    Radiochan

    Then they got steamrolled by the Indo European Aryans lol.
    Besides that, Jericho has been inhabited for more than ten thousand years, other cities in the Middle East/Anatolia have been inhabited for as nearly as long.

  9. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wewuz thread

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