>feature complete. >stable. >working fine for decades. >suddenly it's broken and needs to be replaced

>feature complete
>stable
>working fine for decades
>suddenly it's broken and needs to be replaced
why?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because kernels, software and hardware keep progressing but xorg keeps rotting

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >rotting
      how?
      please give specific examples

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you will never get examples. people who complain about xorg, or any software, dont know the internals of any of it. they're just guessing. they're just liars that guess. they feel it's bad so that's good enough for them, but the reality is xorg is awesome and just works. there's no problem. cya

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          based

          [...]
          why did you reply to yourself?

          delete your IQfy account

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn't call them liars. They genuinely don't know. More like naïveté or ignorance.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Hardware and networking have changed. Relative latencies, between CPU, RAM, GPU, and NIC. X11 is built with networking at it's core. You know what percentage of users display X11 apps over a network? Almost zero. There are a dozen other things about it that were true in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but are nolonger true in the 00s, 10s and the 20s.

          If you were to design a windowing system today, it would not look like X11. It would also not look like wayland's protocol either which is already 15 years old.

          There's a reason why steve jobs didnt just adopt X11 for the OSX macs. There's a reason why you wouldnt just adopt it (or wayland) today if you were building a new OS.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you will never get examples. people who complain about xorg, or any software, dont know the internals of any of it. they're just guessing. they're just liars that guess. they feel it's bad so that's good enough for them, but the reality is xorg is awesome and just works. there's no problem. cya

        why did you reply to yourself?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Refresh rate difference in multi monitor setup.
        Add ress dif to that and you have a bad time

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't use multiple monitors, but I didn't have any issues when I hooked up my laptop to a screen.
          Then again, I wasn't using a compositor.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, my ford pinto never burned me alive, doesn't mean there wasn't a problem with it

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        wayland literally doesn't work. it's shit. cya

        you will never get examples. people who complain about xorg, or any software, dont know the internals of any of it. they're just guessing. they're just liars that guess. they feel it's bad so that's good enough for them, but the reality is xorg is awesome and just works. there's no problem. cya

        Half of IQfy use rolling-release distros yet fail to see that X11 is 40 years old and barely maintained because over the years it has become a hot steaming pile of shit that no one knows how to tend to.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Works perfectly fine on my machine.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Protocol sees little development after 40 years of maturing
          Woah.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          but enough about windows

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >buhwhaddabouh
            Congratulations, dipshit, you solved nothing and avoided the problem. Also DX12U is almost 3 years old.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >have a software that is "broken"
          >don't work on it for 16 years
          >see its broken guys !!!!
          kys gaylander

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >lockscreen is a shitty hack and is part of the screensaver program
        >right-click anywhere to open a menu dialog
        >screensaver program cannot run and the screen can no longer be locked until the menu is closed

        >open any program that changes gamma values (mostly WINE stuff)
        >close it
        >X is unable to reset the original settings

        >multi-monitor setup is a pain in the ass

        >there's 3 different clipboards

        >it's entirely possible for X to crash and leave the computer in a completely unresponsive and unrecoverable state

        Wayland is no better btw.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Works on my machine. Must be a (You) issue.
          >wine
          Yeah, if you emulate another, completely different, operating system, thinks can go wonky, what a surprise.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Anon gives examples
            >Acktually... None of those are problems!
            >What do you mean wine is one of the top most used desktop apps?
            The only applications where this broken shit is getting fixed is on the wayland side. Wine will probably be wayland native next year. But wait there's more:
            No stable, working android emulator on x
            No way to hot plugging displays in the age of usb C docking stations being everywhere
            Apps have relied on shitty hacks, like drawing over other applications in order to get things like password authentication
            And much more!
            The company that has been putting the most time and money to maintaining x11 has decided to stop. If it was really that popular you'd have devs willing to maintain it without them, and users willing to support those devs. yet so far no one has stepped up, and it's unlikely anyone will.
            So we get to start over with wayland.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            if you bring up examples of issues that only you have, then
            >works on my machine
            is a proper response

            Why should i care about problems only you have? It's much more reasonable to conclude that the problem is on (You).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Why should i care about problems only you have?
            That is a good argument to use against (you) when x11 breaks due to an updated mesa or nvidia driver in the future. Kde 6 had issues on xorg after release because even though they had lots of testers, no one even bothered testing on x11. This will be the future for gpu drivers and libraries, maybe not this or next year, but eventually.
            >Works on everyone else's machine.
            The problem will no doubt be on (you)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The only applications where this broken shit is getting fixed is on the wayland side
            Did wayland already fix the cursor stutter?
            It was so funny to see wayland shills having problems that nobody encountered since the 80s.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, it doesn't. Those are legitimate issues that come from X's design.
            >emulating
            WINE Is Not an Emulator. Programs running in WINE are no different from native GNU programs.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://groups.google.com/g/comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine/c/yYfTNV3Z2J0/m/fu4dtf_A2RcJ

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >X is unable to reset the original setting
          not technically. Kde plasma wayland has the same issue with hdr. The xorg server could just check when the program exits and reset the value, nothing in X prevents that

          Refresh rate difference in multi monitor setup.
          Add ress dif to that and you have a bad time

          not true

          [...]
          [...]
          Half of IQfy use rolling-release distros yet fail to see that X11 is 40 years old and barely maintained because over the years it has become a hot steaming pile of shit that no one knows how to tend to.

          everybody that says that has never looked at the code. Stop repeating shit you have no idea about. The xorg server isn't really more complex than wayland compositors.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Multimonitor is no pain in the ass unless you use WM, and if you do you should know how to use it. Xfce 0 issues. KDE 0 issues with that.

          X can reset to original settings, albeit you need to remove the config file, hassle sure. Never had X crash and leave it in unuseable state, just switch tty, no?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was purposely sabataged. The "devlopers" decide to kill it and focus on Wayland, nobody else is allowed to work on X, they won't accept the patches.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Many Wayland devs and maintainers are Xorg devs. Basically Xorg is getting sabotaged, because these people decided to abandon Xorg and to implement new features only in Wayland.
      Whether there were real advantages in Wayland or not, they're creating them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >progressing

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        regressing in what way? stop dodging the question.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you can't disable compositing
          >inb4 you don't need that

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What is the use case? Full screen applications on GNOME or KDE are not composited.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lol jumped straight to "you don't need that"

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's not "rotting" except by design of big tech.

          see

          X doesn't have any "deep problems," they were all abstracted away decades ago. The argument against it seems to be that modern coders can't into c, and that it's "huge" but x.org includes tons of ancillary software that never needs to be touched, from googly eyes to a PDF reader. This is all completed software, it's done, never needs to be touched.

          What the x.org people did is contrary to their foundation's mission statement, the Freedesktop Foundation's mission is to "maintain and extend X.org" not replace it. Over the years they have left it largely moribund, even though promising, working, stable patches which were popular with the community such as xgl (remote 3D accelerated X11) were rejected for vague reasons. There's still nothing like xgl even though we've had the bandwidth for it since gige became common on lans, now it's even be fine over the Internet. But the x.org people work for big tech, that's the problem. They are all moonlighters with real employers, and they do the bidding of their real employers.

          >What the x.org people did is contrary to their foundation's mission statement, the Freedesktop Foundation's mission is to "maintain and extend X.org" not replace it. Over the years they have left it largely moribund, even though promising, working, stable patches which were popular with the community such as xgl (remote 3D accelerated X11) were rejected for vague reasons. There's still nothing like xgl even though we've had the bandwidth for it since gige became common on lans, now it's even be fine over the Internet. But the x.org people work for big tech, that's the problem. They are all moonlighters with real employers, and they do the bidding of their real employers.

          We're at the point where the x.org people are removing working "old rotten" but 100% completed drivers from the tree because "nobody uses them," ie the destruction phase of the project. Luckily I've been saving the tree so it was easy to put a driver back in for something I used. This is a big plot and it's obvious that big tech is slowly wrecking the working, stable foundations of Free OS's and their interfaces to prepare us for something else. What is it? It's gay. That's all I know.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When people work for free they'll only do what they like. Developers like shiny new things.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wayland literally doesn't work. it's shit. cya

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >lags on modern hardware

    yeah, no. Wayland + AMD is butter

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As it gets older and every competent boomer X dev starts dying off, it becomes a liability.
    Nobody knows how to write native applications that use Xlib or XCB calls directly anymore.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Nobody knows how to write native applications that use Xlib or XCB calls directly anymore.
      xlib is piss easy. any moron can write a WM with it in like a weekend or two. xcb is significantly more complicated but it's primary difficulty comes from having zero documentation more than anything else. Programming against libwayland I would put somewhere inbetween the two until you want to do something that goes against wayland development philosophy.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Xorg is extremely active on gitlab
      Mis-informed morons say this about Xorg, but don't even know anything about its development because they're just npcs who repeat Red Hat's Propaganda

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Nobody knows how to write native applications that use Xlib or XCB calls directly anymore.
      Really? I wrote a few programs with XCB and it was comfy tbh. Haven't done anything in Wayland but I don't really want to.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What's the point of writing something in Xlib or XCB nowadays, though? It's kinda like writing Java AWT GUIs today.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Still no TearFree in the release branch

    What the frick is taking so long? Are they deliberately holding it back to avoid taking away Wayland's only benefit?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's just for the modesetting driver. everyone else has had that option for ages

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The modesetting driver is the only correct driver for Intel. The actual Intel driver is deprecated.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          sure but the old intel driver still works for me

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          modesetting driver still won't let me control the brightness on laptop displays or use tearfree compositing at the driver level.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >let me control the brightness on laptop displays
            Works on my machine (Thinkpad with 11th gen CPU). I can even control the keyboard brightness.
            >use tearfree compositing
            Already discussed in the beginning of the chain. The issue is that they've locked it behind the git branch, but it's more than capable of doing it.

            sure but the old intel driver still works for me

            It works, but it's not that good. I get higher game performance with modesetting

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    waytroons having a meltdown. I will never use your shitware.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Xorg: Monolithic (security vulnerabilities)
    Wayland: Compartmentalized design (apps are isolated)

    Xorg: designed for hardware and use-cases that are obsolete today
    Wayland: designed from the ground up to be lightweight and efficient by reducing the number of context switches

    Xorg: massive due to legacy support
    Wayland: nah

    Xorg: Has latency in the input handling due to how it's coded
    Wayland: Nah

    Xorg: Extensive legacy support
    Wayland: Has XWayland

    Xorg: Bug fixes > features
    Wayland: Features > bug fixes

    I still prefer the stability of Xorg over bleeding edge, but I will admit that Wayland is way faster and where we need to go (i.e. HDD vs SSD debate when SSDs were first introduced to the consumer market)

    Eventually you just need to find a point where you gotta shift all your focus over and transition to the future and conquer the bugs so that it can be the new Xorg. Same shit happened with SystemD and SysVInit.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >designed from the ground up to be lightweight and efficient by reducing the number of context switches
      I'll go out on a limb here and say you pulled this completely out of your ass

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Xorg: X-Client->X-Server->X-Compositor->X-Server->CRTC
        Wayland: Wayland-Client->Wayland-Compositor->CRTC

        Feel free to interpret this however you wish.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I interpret that you're moronic

          Xorg:
          >Change DPI settings
          >Apply settings
          >Don't see changes
          >Log out of the desktop then log back in
          >Changes finally apply
          Wayland:
          >Change DPI settings
          >Apply settings
          >See changes instantly
          If a user who switched from Windows or MacOS tries to apply DPI settings on Linux, they would expect the changes to apply instantly.
          So if they are using a desktop running on Xorg, they will either think that changing DPI doesn't work or they figure out that they'll need to log out and then log back in to see the settings but will think Linux is "outdated" or "janky" because of this.
          That's because Xorg IS "outdated" and "janky". Either way, this will form a negative impression on a new Linux user who wants to change DPI settings. Xorg is not a modern display protocol and is holding desktop Linux back.

          frick are you on about. works on my Thinkpad e15 running debian+xorg

          >a user who switched from Windows or MacOS
          empty set
          there is no reason to use Linux on desktop in 2024

          >yes I would like my computer to use me, instead of me using my computer please

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >security vulnerabilities
      so just fix it kek that's what openbsd did

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I agree. But for now, it has them so I'm using Xorg till they're fixed like openbsd did.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Wayland: Compartmentalized design (apps are isolated)
      But that breaks shit in annoying ways requiring extensions that then remove any security added in the first place
      Doesn't it?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It also adds a lot more space. Another reason I hate flatpacking ffmpeg apps

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Xorg has more features than wayland.
      SystemD is a bigger security issue than Xorg. Give me a single modern instanse post 2010 where Xorg security issues were exploited due to non-moron related reasons.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Xorg: designed for hardware and use-cases that are obsolete today
      Xorg is hardware agnostic unlike Wayland, how is that obsolete? Well maybe if you like sucking corpo wiener and support planned obsolesce.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's quite a distorted way of putting it. It's only agnostic insofar as it doesn't assume OpenGL is a thing, but OpenGL is pretty agnostic in and of itself. It can be done entirely in software if needed.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wayland being designed around opengl semantics is not really a selling point. The opposite actually. It's one of the reasons why the entire mess with explicit sync existed only on wayland. It quite amusing how xorg, designed when GPUs didn't even exist yet, was better at adapting to vulkan than wayland.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wayland has a backdoor, obviously

    also x.org works on weird ancient computers which don't have backdoors, but wayland needs a new gpu making tons of entire architectures functionally obsolete, can't have people putting old computers with no backdoors on the internet now can we?

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Rust trannies

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can the Xorg homosexuals stop being so stupid. You’re asking a question that a quick search will answer your question.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even though it has dictated the path for so long, it's becoming harder to maintain, in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only wayland.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Xorg:
    >Change DPI settings
    >Apply settings
    >Don't see changes
    >Log out of the desktop then log back in
    >Changes finally apply
    Wayland:
    >Change DPI settings
    >Apply settings
    >See changes instantly
    If a user who switched from Windows or MacOS tries to apply DPI settings on Linux, they would expect the changes to apply instantly.
    So if they are using a desktop running on Xorg, they will either think that changing DPI doesn't work or they figure out that they'll need to log out and then log back in to see the settings but will think Linux is "outdated" or "janky" because of this.
    That's because Xorg IS "outdated" and "janky". Either way, this will form a negative impression on a new Linux user who wants to change DPI settings. Xorg is not a modern display protocol and is holding desktop Linux back.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >a user who switched from Windows or MacOS
      empty set
      there is no reason to use Linux on desktop in 2024

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Many people want to switch to Linux now more than ever because Windows keeps getting worse and worse with no signs of it getting any better
        Your willingness to accept Windows or even MacOS getting worse and worse without even considering a better alternative that respects the users more than Microsoft or Apple ever would shows that you are a pathetic slave that values comfort more than freedom and it shows that you deserve to get ads shoved down your throat on your operating system and a artificial intelligence that spys on everything you do
        Soon, you are going to be forced to keep your computer online at all times in order to keep using your OS, then you will pay a subscription in order to keep using it while Microsoft Pluton prevents you from cracking Windows, then you will live in the pod and then start eating bugs because you have done nothing to secure your liberties and you deserve it, cuck

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why include Mac OS in this rant when it remains completely fine
          Apple periodically add some stupid bullshit like widgets that you can just ignore until they lose interest and remove it again but the core of the OS has remained good and stable for 20 years

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Is the Gatekeeper shit still a thing? Last time I used a mac it wouldn't let me open programs that weren't signed with Apple. When trying to fix that the "Anywhere" option is hidden by default https://osxdaily.com/2016/09/27/allow-apps-from-anywhere-macos-gatekeeper/
            Had some trouble with SIP as well. Other then that macOS was great when I've had to use it. much better than Windows

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can bypass Gatekeeper for individual apps by just right clicking them and clicking Open. Turning it off permanently can now only be done from recovery mode after clicking through a big warning so people can't scam your grandma into turning it off to install ransomware
            SIP was only a problem for apps that were doing things wrong to begin with (e.g. Homebrew dumping shit all over the place instead of staying in /usr/local) and everyone has long since got their shit together.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >SIP
            >Gatekeeper
            >Syscall entitlements granted only from app store distribution
            Gee, I wonder.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            SIP is objectively good, you don't need random apps on your computer to be able to overwrite system files and it has zero impact on normal use
            Gatekeeper is, again, optional and can be bypassed simply by right clicking on something or running things from the terminal, or turned off from recovery mode
            I have no idea what you mean with the last one, as far as I know there are no app store specific calls except things like in-app purchases (because they are done via the store, obviously)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >um actually? all those anti-consumer things?
            >le good
            holy shit.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What is anti-consumer about not letting random apps overwrite your operating system
            It's not even an Apple-only thing, there's a bunch of immutable Linux distros

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >What is anti-consumer about not letting random apps overwrite your operating system
            the part that you aren't allowed to own your machine?
            and Linux distros that have immutable filesystems can be mutated because they're free software.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You do own the machine? You can turn SIP and Gatekeeper off and you can install other operating systems (and in fact Apple intentionally changed their bootloader to make this easier).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >and you can install other operating systems (and in fact Apple intentionally changed their bootloader to make this easier).
            then why the frick would you use gayOS?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because it's a reliable, stable OS with good software and a UI that has remained mostly unchanged for 20+ years, and if I want to do actual work on my computer that is exactly what I want

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's the software equivalent of glue, ovalhead screws and warranty seals.

            They tell you that it's because of safety, but just try to come up with a scenario where it actually prevents damage.
            The ransomware can still encrypt your private data.
            The keylogger can still fake a trusted application.
            The spyware can still steal your browser cookies and credentials.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The ransomware can still encrypt your private data.
            It actually can't, apps can't modify existing files unless you open them via the system open dialog or explicitly give it "full disk access" permission
            >The spyware can still steal your browser cookies and credentials.
            Similarly apps can't read other apps' library folders or keychains without an entitlement signed by the same developer
            There are actual good security benefits to this stuff, that's why it's there, but if you want to go back to the wild west era of any executable on your computer doing whatever it wants that is one radio button away

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ok machomosexual. In a bid of trying to be more positive, I will concede that app permissions are a good idea, and unlike Windows, at least gayOS tries to.
            Closest equivalent in Linux is either containerizing or being really anal about LSMs to a level that's too autismal for most.
            You win.

            I still think the syscall entitlements and the toolchain, crt and other code aspects of macOS to simply be too cucked to ever be worth using over Linux, but I can appreciate that gayOS is objectively better than Windows in many respects.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >what's anticonsumer in literally locking down kernel features by requiring a validly signed executable entitlement?
            holly shit.
            the other stuff is just junk that you can bypass/disable, but it's still literally like

            It's the software equivalent of glue, ovalhead screws and warranty seals.

            They tell you that it's because of safety, but just try to come up with a scenario where it actually prevents damage.
            The ransomware can still encrypt your private data.
            The keylogger can still fake a trusted application.
            The spyware can still steal your browser cookies and credentials.

            said.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Linux is such a complete joke, that people are still willing to put up with windows in its current state. The sad thing is that linux has actually gotten worse. Desktop linux was better 15 years ago.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The sad thing is that linux has actually gotten worse. Desktop linux was better 15 years ago.
            No it wasn't. Most people are unwilling to switch to Linux when Windows 7 was at its peak and was receiving a lot of attention from Microsoft and developers. Nowadays, more and more people have switched to Linux either full time or part time because they still needed to use software that works on Windows but once they find a better alternative on Linux or the software they were using gets ported, they'll ditch Windows because it's getting shitted on by jeets

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Desktop linux was better 15 years ago.
            I disagree in general but things like snaps/flatpaks, PulseAudio, Wayland, GNOME 3+ are worse than the alternatives. If you avoid those then desktop Linux is actually a pleasant experience.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what's wrong with flatpaks?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The moment Microsoft pushed ads and tried to force their microsoft accounts, was the moment Windows died for everyone who doesn't rely on it.
            No cope will ever make up for this.

            If you use Windows for any other reason than
            >i need this one application that isn't available somewhere else
            you are an idiot.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Desktop linux was better 15 years ago.
            How?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The linux desktop was somewhat more coherant before gnome3 came fricked everything up. Gnome3 was created by agents of Microsoft to destroy desktop linux and remove possible competition.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's true. Linux Desktop quality is like sine wave:
            >come up with concept
            >implement it
            >polish it (over the years)
            >remove bugs (over the years)
            >stop maintaining it because you found a new idea
            >implement new idea while old desktop is bitrotting
            >force everyone to switch over to your unfinished new desktop
            I think some older iterations were better, they simply had higher peaks before it went down again.

            >no coherent thought
            >no example(s)
            I accept your concession.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            KDE<n>
            GNOME<n>
            Xorg versus Wayland
            Sound server wars
            Replace <n> with increasing integer.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what exactly is your argument you absolute mentally ill moron? were you even alive 15 years ago? do you even know what you're talking about?
            use an actual example of "the linux desktop of 15 years ago" being better than today.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >were you even alive 15 years ago? do you even know what you're talking about?
            Yes, I actually used that stuff. Did you?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's true. Linux Desktop quality is like sine wave:
            >come up with concept
            >implement it
            >polish it (over the years)
            >remove bugs (over the years)
            >stop maintaining it because you found a new idea
            >implement new idea while old desktop is bitrotting
            >force everyone to switch over to your unfinished new desktop
            I think some older iterations were better, they simply had higher peaks before it went down again.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think nowhere has failed as hard as the UI design of Gnome, which is seemingly based on treating Apple's iPad Human Interface Guidelines as a starting point and religious text, and then assuming that 100% of their users are children with brain damage who have never used a computer before

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The bigger failure to me is other DEs relying on GTK that much. It's a mess for distros like Linux Mint where they now have to look for a way forward away from it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            LXDE switched to qt 11 years ago.
            The ones who didn't are now in a sunk cost fallacy. They spent years trying to make gtk3 work.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            15 years ago we used ndiswrapper to extract windows drivers to get wifi working.

            >Desktop linux was better 15 years ago.
            I disagree in general but things like snaps/flatpaks, PulseAudio, Wayland, GNOME 3+ are worse than the alternatives. If you avoid those then desktop Linux is actually a pleasant experience.

            This is correct.
            You just have to ignore all the fragmentation that RedHat and other companies push. They want to create a "Linux App Store". But that should not bother you. Just don't use it.
            >but muh wine
            If you need windows gayms, install windows. You can even install windows on a VM and do GPU passthrough.
            I used wine for almost a decade and dropped it two years ago. It is not worth the hassle.
            Unless you are in an environment where Valve has to make sure that things work, of course.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I have also used wine for a decade plus and Proton+DXVK has made it pretty much hassle free compared to where we were a decade ago. I hardly have to tweak anything any more and the games I buy on GoG without a native Linux version just work. I see no reason to dual-boot and can't even be bothered to keep a VM around these days because Wine has gotten so good.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i first used linux in 2004, it was pretty comfy, i used it on a laptop for about a year without knowing the first thing about linux (i didn't even discover the package manager), but since it shipped with everything i wanted like gaim (msn messenger), k3b (cd burner) and mozilla (web browser) it was nice, ran better than XP. it even worked with my parallel printer easier than windows (the printer was fairly old so getting it working in XP was a pain)
            i think the reason i never noticed anything wrong with the ecosystem was just because i didn't know the ecosystem, i used kde and qt apps because that's just what it came with, i wasn't concerned about gtk or aRTS and all the different options or any of that because i just didn't know about any of it, i was like most windows users, i just used what was given to me and was happy in my ignorance

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous
  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >needs to be replaced
    no

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wonder if they'll call the wayfire version WAYFCE

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    One of the core X devs did a write-up years ago on why they are replacing it with Wayland. It's not like the Wayland people are different people. A bunch of the X devs are Wayland devs.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >One of the core X devs
      Give a name.
      Then we can check if he either joined the project recently (post wayland introduction, which was 15 years ago) or if he got employed by RedHat.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I can't remember. It was a decade ago, perhaps.

        https://i.imgur.com/8PiBReG.png

        >feature complete
        >stable
        >working fine for decades
        >suddenly it's broken and needs to be replaced
        why?

        There is actually a bunch of nice changes to come from all this. Unfortunately, because Linux isn't Windows, you're never going to get industry to fix Linux problems as a priority. It is what it is.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Certain companies (IBM) trying to sabotage the Linux desktop deliberately. That's why.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    everything must be replaced
    everything must be rewritten in rust
    the trannies have spoken and you will comply

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >so completely skullfricked by /misc/troon nonsense you turned "replace" into a danger word
      Wow, what a moron.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    X11 is fine. the only privacy issue is the fact that windows can snoop on eachother. then again: don't download stuff you don't trust, ez pz

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      preventing windows from snooping on each other causes more problems then it solves

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's outdated shit not made for modern technology

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It works fine on modern technology

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Technology evolves, deal with it

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Works on my machine

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Alright X11 people, I'm using an AMD GPU and Firefox
    How can I make this scroll smoothly, because I tried like 7 different fricking compositors and it's frameskipping at times

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Are you using GPU-acceleration in Firefox? Search for "WebRender" in about:support and check if it says "(Software)"

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, webrender is enabled but not on software mode. Tried on both EGL and GLX.
        Autoscrolling (that thing that windows does with the middle mouse button) makes it a bit evident, there's some jitter (not to mistake with tearing) and rarely, but at times, it will just skip a few frames, like it's jumping.

        I considered maybe it's because TearFree is enabled, but VRR will not work without TearFree. I thought it was a compositor thing but I did try most of em, and disabling compositing.
        Thing is 1. Firefox on Wayland is smooth, doesn't have this issue, and 2. Anything else on x11 is smooth, I had no problems with games for instance.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're going to tell you to tinker troony xorg.conf file while a more elegant solution is to use a Wayland desktop/compositor which just werks on a AMD GPU

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scrolled this page with zero skips on Chromium.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I am not switching to a chromium based browser for that kind of inconvenience.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't have proper drivers or are you talking about tearing? The only moronic thing about X is the default to not use tearing. It has an auto setting but by default it is off. Feels, smells, and looks like sabbotage.
      xrandr --output (output, DP-2 for example, check by just typing xrandr) --set TearFree on

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're asking too many questions, goy

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because Wayland empowers transwomen.

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Test

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >whole source code is one big WTF
    >share/record screen > fps drops to 60-70 because of software latencies
    >50 years of development, still no a way to isolate trash from each other without running a second X

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    xinput is shit. Main reason I switched was because using a laptop touchpad was immensely better on Wayland. Cope if you want, but there are numerous other QoL basic shit that a Wayland compositor can actually do that X will literally never do.
    YWNBAC, X troon.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    so i want PURE wayland on archlinux, how can i achieve that? i dont care for bugs or lost useabillity

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You would probably go for sway or hyprland and simply not install xwayland.
      Good luck.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ty

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >every desktop environment puts the main effort into their own insufficient system configuration dialogs that only work in the most simple cases
    This is why the Linux desktop is trash.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing you said has anything to do with Linux. All the major desktops require you to know how to interact with your system in a level more advanced than a shitty GUI settings app to get acceptable behavior. Not every setting can be enumerated for display in a GUI and you'd know this if you used Windows.

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it's broken and needs to be replaced
    >why?
    insecure: no isolation between applications (each of them can keylog every other)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      don't run malware

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >we don't need security, instead make sure every X program is 100% secure!
        lol you idiot
        every program gets exploits, for example web browsers, all the damn time
        you moron

        you can fix it by various MAC/RBAC solutions to block them from accessing files they shouldn't - but still they can access X and do what ever.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >you can fix it by various MAC/RBAC solutions
          The easiest solution, that everybody knew for decades, is to run as a different user.

          Flatpak is a one-way sandbox. You run your browser as flatpak? Then any application running as user or running as flatpak with user folder permissions can access its cookies under ~/.local/share/flatpak-crap
          Meanwhile if your browser runs as a different user, none of your applications can access its data. Which is much more important, because the common threat model is malware stealing browser cookies, not the browser stealing things from others.

          And the interesting thing:
          xdg-desktop-portals, dbus and wayland make it HARDER to run software as different user.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Openbsd forked X and fixed this why can't they take those changes?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nobody wants to suffer the indignity of maintaining someone else's code when they could be in charge of their own project with their own big wonderful ideas

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Openbsd forked X and fixed this why can't they take those changes?
        does it really fix that problem? how exactly?

        >(each of them can keylog every other)
        That's also the case on Wayland, you absolute moron.

        >>(each of them can keylog every other)
        >That's also the case on Wayland,
        orly? explain. because everyone says they can't

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >everyone
          Well, then everyone is stupid, because nothing stops an application on xwayland from simply mimicking something that you type in.
          They even could infect the compositor itself. User rights are enough to do so, because your compositor runs as user.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >orly? explain. because everyone says they can't
          The protocol itself makes it "possible" to isolate an application. But it really is bullshit if you think it through. For example, a compositor would need a way to identify an isolated application, how would it do that? Otherwise it could use all the advanced protocols that a proper desktop has. Even if they're somehow isolated by default as well, the attack surface is as wide as the sea.
          An application that simply runs as your user can infect everything else anyway, even with a Wayland display server that isolates safely by default.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It will be like dbus, but worse.
            Dbus has a permission system built in. So you can allow a specific application or user to only be able to access specific domains.
            Then flatpak came and they didn't want to use those (a design decision, not a technical one) so they implemented a dbus proxy that has to run for every flatpak.

            tl;dr:
            We will get a "wayland-proxy" middleware that is a black box, not standardize and that does shit that you don't know.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >permission system nobody knows and uses
            >permission checking proxies
            Both are complex ideas that won't really work in real life.
            dbus is the cancer of the Linux desktop. I don't even understand why it's "needed".

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >dbus is the cancer of the Linux desktop. I don't even understand why it's "needed".
            Because you want an easy way to compartmentalise different functionality in different programs and then have them communicate. Either you use the widely standardised D-Bus to give RPC access, use some obscure shit like Cap'n'proto, bodge something together with protobufs or go the mpd and others and roll your own protocol. I have tried most of these in different variations and for all its suckieness, D-Bus is pretty all right to develop against if you can stomach the licenses of the popular D-Bus libraries.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Same reason Windows has COM and OLE. moronic question.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            COM and OLE are different things.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            every wayland compositor i know of only sends input events to the one - currently focused - window
            >the attack surface is as wide as the sea
            all the more reason to start closing some holes

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So there won't be protocol extension that lets you do useful things like adding global key bindings? All why attackers can just LD_PRELOAD your entire system with a trojan?
            Enjoy your castrated "secure" system.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >global key bindings
            a protocol would allow applications to register keybinds which means the compositor knows which application is interested in which shortcuts and can make policy decisions
            >attackers can just LD_PRELOAD
            provided they can make changes to your profile which isn't necessarily the case

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >provided they can make changes to your profile which isn't necessarily the case
            I always find it funny when LD_PRELOAD is brought up as some huge security risk. If someone can manipulate your loader environment, you already lost long ago.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Anyone with the same access necessary to keylog your X applications can do that.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah. I didn't mean it in a Wayland vs X sense, just in general. If you run untrusted software on Linux/Unix without a MAC, you're fricked either way.

            If they don't you can just let them access a nested X session, which would be isolated.
            An actually secure Wayland sanboxing implementation also would use a nested compositor, instead of letting the untrusted application access your Wayland desktop session.

            I think Wayland does things right considering isolation and security from the start, but with the rest of the system designed the way it is, it doesn't do much over all. With the current threat model employed by the Linux/Unix desktop, I think Wayland or X makes very little difference in practice.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >With the current threat model
            I meant security model.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >considering isolation and security from the start
            If they would really care about this so much, they would make CSD impossible, which is inherently insecure.

            Somehow hotkeys are insecure, but allowing an application to put shit into its window decoration and completely hijack it, is not?
            Makes no sense.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not saying they're necessarily doing a great job and I still haven't seen any real reason to switch away from X (I want oneko to work), but Xorg was developed in a different time and clearly has design from a time when threat models, if they existed at all, looked very different. Personally, I think Arcan is more interesting than Wayland.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Nr.1 threat model nowadays is ransomware and browser-data stealers.
            Both is perfectly doable by an application that is either running as user or running in a sandbox with user directory permissions.

            Neither flatpak nor wayland addresses that.
            Keyloggers were a threat over ten years ago, but aren't the main danger nowadays. It's unironically the wayland dudes who are stuck decades in the past (not surprising, cause wayland is 15 years old).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Neither flatpak nor wayland addresses that.
            >prevent arbitrary applications from carte blanc access to user's home folder
            >doesn't prevent ransomware or credential stealing
            are you literally moronic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >prevent arbitrary applications from carte blanc access to user's home folder
            They don't prevent that though.
            Flatpak could theoretically do it but they don't.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Flatpak could theoretically do it but they don't.
            wtf are you talking about? I am in a shell in my steam flatpak and my user profile is completely devoid of any of my real $HOME's content.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but but what if the malware is shipped as flatpak and doesn't request user directory permissions
            yeah... that is totally where the majority of malware comes from...

            You know what security model perfectly prevents browser-data-stealers?
            RUNNING IT AS A DIFFERENT USER
            The security model from 40 years ago is better than fricking flatpak.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >RUNNING IT AS A DIFFERENT USER
            ok, show me you executing software as a different user while:
            having the application draw to your X and submit audio to your audio server.
            then realize that X access would btfo your whole security model.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >having the application draw to your X
            Are you moronic?
            X is a multiuser server. Different users on the same X server is no problem at all.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I run minecraft as a different user ever since they found mods with malware in it.

            The only thing that stops me running the browser as own user is unironically the GNOME filepicker.
            xdg-desktop-portal doesn't work, because the security of the default linux permissions prevents it.... very ironic.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you should use flatpak and wayland instead if you actually cared about security.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Making a different user for every application is much more secure than all that crap hacked on top of a system that was never designed for it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That would be far less secure.

            Running the browser as flatpak still stores all browser data in my home, accessibly to everything.
            I gain nothing. There is no security benefit from flatpak in that specific matter.
            Running minecraft in a flatpak with filesystem permissions modified just takes more space and again has no benefit over a different user.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I think Wayland does things right considering isolation and security from the start,
            So did X.
            X was conceived from the start as a networked multiuser display server.
            Hence every window of a user is isolated from windows of other users.
            It works completely in line with the classic UNIX security model.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, as I outlined in

            I'm not saying they're necessarily doing a great job and I still haven't seen any real reason to switch away from X (I want oneko to work), but Xorg was developed in a different time and clearly has design from a time when threat models, if they existed at all, looked very different. Personally, I think Arcan is more interesting than Wayland.

            , I understand this. I should probably have written "modern security and isolation".

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >modern security and isolation
            That's just a code for phone OS crap that tries to protect users from themselves.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Being protected from yourself is a good thing as long as (You) are the one defining the security policies and have full control to configure the system. Phones take that control away from you and that is the problem, not the ideas themselves.

            The Nr.1 threat model nowadays is ransomware and browser-data stealers.
            Both is perfectly doable by an application that is either running as user or running in a sandbox with user directory permissions.

            Neither flatpak nor wayland addresses that.
            Keyloggers were a threat over ten years ago, but aren't the main danger nowadays. It's unironically the wayland dudes who are stuck decades in the past (not surprising, cause wayland is 15 years old).

            Yes, Wayland is no solution to the issue of shared file system state between all programs running as your user. Flatpak can mitigate some of those issues depending on how you use it, but it's mostly shit done for ease of packaging. If we go to the ultimate paranoia level, no solution in software can ever be made safe. You need to run each piece of software on isolated hardware, but it is, as always, a trade-off between usability and security.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >With the current threat model employed by the Linux/Unix desktop, I think Wayland or X makes very little difference in practice.
            i agree but even users on lax, general purpose systems without a strict access control still benefit from linux being a more obvious choice in more contexts like for example embedded/automotive that would almost naturally be more strict because of the low per deployment cost of a high deployment to configuration ratio, because more users = more contributors = more better

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no they don't? do you even know X can be done over network?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Then I can run xterm too and change that user's LD_PRELOAD.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            either way, you're an idiot and ignoring the biggest hole in all this:
            containerization exists in the Linux kernel and yet if you want applications to have performant ability to draw a window, you just completely expose everything running in your X

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can run X isolated in a container too, moron.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I could put a wrapper binary into your PATH called "mutter" and could keylog you.
            User permissions is all i need.

            And thanks to flatpak, you NEED to have PATH point to at least one user-modifyable location.
            It's funny how all your modern security measures hijack each other.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            are you literally fricking moronic?
            flatpaks are put in ~/.var on purpose anyhow.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I can also just change the user's PATH.
            Or frick with the user's .desktop entries to just call a completely different binary.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >And thanks to flatpak, you NEED to have PATH point to at least one user-modifyable location.
            what the frick are you on about?
            do you even know how flatpak works?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If they don't you can just let them access a nested X session, which would be isolated.
            An actually secure Wayland sanboxing implementation also would use a nested compositor, instead of letting the untrusted application access your Wayland desktop session.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No they didn't. They forked it and left a critical CVE in X that let a user become root. Xenocara is just as shit and probably even more suspect because basic maintenance was completely missing from it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >(each of them can keylog every other)
      That's also the case on Wayland, you absolute moron.

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was actually wondering the same thing. Finally a piece of software is considered 'done', and now we suddenly need a replacement. Fricking hell.

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >we want the phone security model on the desktop
    What is your response?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Android uses different users, one user for every app, and i agree that we should make it easier to use the strength of the good old linux permission system.

      The flatpak and wayland security model is a completely different thing with needless complexity and it needs to be abandoned.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There are parts of it that are actually a good idea (immutable system, sandboxing, granular permissions) and Apple already implemented those. It would be nice to see them more widely used elsewhere but I don't think anyone else has the sort of leverage Apple does to browbeat developers into implementing them, so you'd just get a Windows Vista situation where people complain that all of their apps are broken because they're no longer allowed to do stupid insecure shit

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        CSD is stupid insecure shit because a hostile application can make the titlebar unusable.

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it was NEVER stable, NEVER worked fine and needed a replacement DECADES ago.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    My webserver and my sql server are "sandboxed" by running as their own user.

    Who do the corporations want us to abandon this easy and effective permission system?

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >all display servers on linux suck
    >all audio servers on linux suck

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is wrong.
      Reminder that Winshit needed a 10 -> 11 just to fix how bad DWM is:
      borderless window performance issues.
      can't remember window positions when changing monitor geometry (literally turning your DP monitor off, lmao)

      Everytime some moron says Linux is, le bad, I am reminded how GNOME alone has had features that Windows is only just recently (like last 4-5 years) started adding. pathetic cope.

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "Jobs for the boys"
    Tale as old as time.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In a secure environment, the user is not allowed to install any own binary, whether sandboxed or not.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's an impossible goal tbh. Eventually you will run into some user accessible method of loading and executing some form of arbitrary code. Even a web browser ultimately allows you to execute arbitrary javascript.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >impossible goal
        it was the default for decades and applied in any company where security matters

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          good for you moron? no usable OS will work that way unless it's literally a fisher-price toy.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ransomware encrypts your ~/.var
    nothing personal, kid

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it's over bros....
      >btrfs send .muhbackup/.var-2024-05-30 | btrfs recv .
      we're back

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >BUT WHAT IF THE RANSOMWARE COMES AS A FLATPAK THAT DOESN'T ASK FOR FILESYSTEM PERMISSIONS, CHUD?

      >OUR SECURITY MODEL ONLY WORKS AGAINST MALWARE THAT COMES IN THAT ONE SINGLE WAY WE APPROVE OF

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I can't fathom being such a mind broken moron.
        It's unreal.
        literally have a nice day.

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >feature complete
    Literal keylogger.
    No HDR.
    Poor support for multiple monitors with different refresh rates.
    Xtards are massively moronic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Poor support for multiple monitors with different refresh rates.
      I don't disagree with the rest but that part is a literal myth. my 3 monitors have different refresh rates and resolutions and everything works fine for me (xfce so no wayland)

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wayland more like gayland
    imagine inventing hexagonal wheels and forcing everyone to use it when the circle ones work just fine

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >x
    works
    >wayland
    doesn't work

    simple as

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wayland is better because.....BECAUSE IT JUST IS, OK?!?!
    ganna stick with x. been working just fine for me for the past 20 years

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    gayland

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Trannies.
    Unironically.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wayland isnt written in rust though

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    X doesn't have any "deep problems," they were all abstracted away decades ago. The argument against it seems to be that modern coders can't into c, and that it's "huge" but x.org includes tons of ancillary software that never needs to be touched, from googly eyes to a PDF reader. This is all completed software, it's done, never needs to be touched.

    What the x.org people did is contrary to their foundation's mission statement, the Freedesktop Foundation's mission is to "maintain and extend X.org" not replace it. Over the years they have left it largely moribund, even though promising, working, stable patches which were popular with the community such as xgl (remote 3D accelerated X11) were rejected for vague reasons. There's still nothing like xgl even though we've had the bandwidth for it since gige became common on lans, now it's even be fine over the Internet. But the x.org people work for big tech, that's the problem. They are all moonlighters with real employers, and they do the bidding of their real employers.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >X doesn't have any "deep problems," they were all abstracted away decades ago.
      Abstraction doesn't mean not caring about the design. It means designing something abstract, like an audio API that can work with any output device instead of making all the programs use Sound Blaster I/O ports. Something abstracted away can still be badly designed.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Luckily there is a plethora of choices with X11 for that.

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only thing wayland compositors do better than xorg is my browser refresh rate matching properly my monitor's. For some reason, it's stuck at 60 on xorg.

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    xeyes gang rise up

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      NOT SECURE

      no desktop mascots for you either

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Old and boring. Trooneys need to feel important by cooontribuuuting to new tech.

    Wayland is older than android and windows reinvented display server things from scratch 3 times while wayland was in development.

    But now that it is useable yea, my first point applies. It's still shit tho'

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