Give it to me straight. What happened? Did one generation of people just stop caring?

Give it to me straight. What happened? Did one generation of people just stop caring? Did the minds who knew how to build and operate these things die withput teaching anyone?

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  1. 1 month ago

    Gengis Khan happened

    • 1 month ago

      unironic climate change. the last vestiges of the ice age caused periodic flooodings and a much more humid climate in the middle east. as the air masses stabilized into the more modern patterns, the land became more arid and caused mass exodi

      The ancient irrigation systems of Iraq were wrecked by the Mongols and the region never recovered.

      Also, by the time the Mongols got there, the population centres of the Iron Age and Antiquity had long been abandoned. No one lived in Babylon any more, they lived in places like Baghdad or Samarra.
      The abandonment of the old pre-Seleucid population centres and capitals was the product of a long period of decline, part of which was down to changing political landscapes and new regional capitals (like Seleucia ad Tigrim, Dura-Europos, Ctesiphon and Al-Hirah), but also due to changing irrigation infrastructure (concomitant with new regimes) and the changing landscape, the natural wandering of the rivers across the floodplains due to hydrological processes. The climate had also become drier and more arid since the humid period of the Holocene Climatic Optimum that precipitated the settlement of the Fertile Crescent and Hilly Flanks during the Neolithic and Bronze Age, as mentioned here

      unironic climate change. the last vestiges of the ice age caused periodic flooodings and a much more humid climate in the middle east. as the air masses stabilized into the more modern patterns, the land became more arid and caused mass exodi

      . Intensive farming and silt build-up over 5000 years probably had an impact as well. By the time of the Arab conquest, all that was left of Babylon was a small village. According to medieval Arabic writings, Babylon was a popular site to extract the bricks used to build cities from Baghdad to Basra.

      • 1 month ago

        Baghdad is literally only a few miles away from Babylon. Why abandon Babylon? All the buildings and infrastructure and shit is already there. Is it because wells dried up or something?

        • 1 month ago

          It's 85 km away.

        • 1 month ago

          Babylon got deliberately depopulated to full up Seleucea, which itself became an exurb of Ctesiphon. By 1 AD Babylon was little more than a tiny village with some priests still working at the temple.

      • 1 month ago

        That's a fake drawing supposedly representing the Arabs and the Persians House of Wisdom library not the city of Bagdad which was a favela. Neither the Semites nor the Indo-Europeans Levantines ever built lasting structures, their mud Ziggurats are all dust in the wind, these low IQ couldn't even build Allah a proper temple, their kaaba was a shithole up unti the 20th when Allah got rich oil.

    • 1 month ago

      Iranics happened. Mainly Medians, but all iranics had a hand.
      > Did the minds who knew how to build and operate these things die withput teaching anyone?
      Yup. Iranics killed off the local Mesopotamian aristocracy and ran oversized inefficient despotic states that keeled over when faced against competent fighting forces.
      You saw it with Alexander the great, you saw it with Rashidun, now you're seeing it with Israel.
      I personally only feel bad for the Assyrians in the crossfire. Everyone else is guilty and deserves the living conditions that they crea9ted for themselves.

    • 1 month ago

      wasn't it the Persians?

      • 1 month ago

        medians and a few other hill bantoids
        medians are one ancestor of Persians but there's a few others

        • 1 month ago

          I see most people here take licenses when talking about IQfytory, kek, thanks for the info pham

  2. 1 month ago

    unironic climate change. the last vestiges of the ice age caused periodic flooodings and a much more humid climate in the middle east. as the air masses stabilized into the more modern patterns, the land became more arid and caused mass exodi

    • 1 month ago

      >unironic climate change
      this but the climate changed because the people in the region cut down all the trees and turned every last bit of land into agricultural land. This destroys the microclimates that enable rainfall and groundwater restoration.

      • 1 month ago

        wouldn't be surprised. that's not the first time humans are the architects of their own downfall. see eater island.

        • 1 month ago

          it's really simple.. forests create a sheltered cool microclimate which is required for a cloud to drop its moisture as rain or for atmospheric moisture to condensate on the ground. Sun-baked ground creates a warm rising pillow of air which sends any atmospheric moisture further up the conveyer belt to the higher latitudes.

  3. 1 month ago

    inbreeding --> decline in mental faculties

    • 1 month ago

      So outbreeded race mixed people are the smartest in the world? Fascinating. Tell me more.

      • 1 month ago

        You don’t understand
        It is sunnah in Islam to marry your 1st cousin.
        So generation after generation of doing this has caused them to become moronic.
        It’s not an ingroup outgroup problem it’s actual inbreeding.

        • 1 month ago

          >So generation after generation of doing this has caused them to become moronic.
          But most don't. Especially since in the ME there has been a lot of outmarrying. Actual inbreeding only occurs in the really isolated villages and areas but that's seen allover the world outside of the ME

  4. 1 month ago

    The ancient irrigation systems of Iraq were wrecked by the Mongols and the region never recovered.

  5. 1 month ago

    “Though you rejoice, though you exult,
    O plunderers of my heritage,
    though you frolic like a heifer in the pasture,
    and neigh like stallions,
    your mother shall be utterly shamed,
    and she who bore you shall be disgraced.
    Behold, she shall be the least of the nations,
    a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
    Because of the wrath of the Sovereign she shall not be inhabited
    but shall be an utter desolation;
    everyone who passes by Babylon shall be appalled,
    and hiss because of all her wounds.
    Set yourselves in array against Babylon all around,
    all you who bend the bow;
    shoot at her, spare no arrows,
    for she has sinned against the Sovereign.
    Raise a shout against her all around;
    she has surrendered;
    her bulwarks have fallen;
    her walls are thrown down.
    For this is the vengeance of the Sovereign:
    take vengeance on her;
    do to her as she has done.
    Cut off from Babylon the sower,
    and the one who handles the sickle in time of harvest;
    because of the sword of the oppressor,
    every one shall turn to his own people,
    and every one shall flee to his own land.

  6. 1 month ago

    “Behold, I am against you, O proud one,
    declares the Sovereign God of hosts,
    for your day has come,
    the time when I will punish you.
    The proud one shall stumble and fall,
    with none to raise him up,
    and I will kindle a fire in his cities,
    and it will devour all that is around him.

    “Thus says the Sovereign of hosts: The people of Israel are oppressed, and the people of Judah with them. All who took them captive have held them fast; they refuse to let them go. Their Redeemer is strong; Yahweh Sabaoth is his name. He will surely plead their cause, that he may give rest to the earth, but unrest to the inhabitants of Babylon.

    “A sword against the Chaldeans, declares the Sovereign,
    and against the inhabitants of Babylon,
    and against her officials and her wise men!
    A sword against the diviners,
    that they may become fools!
    A sword against her warriors,
    that they may be destroyed!
    A sword against her horses and against her chariots,
    and against all the foreign troops in her midst,
    that they may become women!
    A sword against all her treasures,
    that they may be plundered!
    A drought against her waters,
    that they may be dried up!
    For it is a land of images,
    and they are mad over idols.

    • 1 month ago

      “Therefore wild beasts shall dwell with hyenas in Babylon, and ostriches shall dwell in her. She shall never again have people, nor be inhabited for all generations. As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the Sovereign, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her.

      “Behold, a people comes from the north;
      a mighty nation and many kings
      are stirring from the farthest parts of the earth.
      They lay hold of bow and spear;
      they are cruel and have no mercy.
      The sound of them is like the roaring of the sea;
      they ride on horses,
      arrayed as a man for battle
      against you, O daughter of Babylon!

      “The king of Babylon heard the report of them,
      and his hands fell helpless;
      anguish seized him,
      pain as of a woman in labor.

      “Behold, like a lion coming up from the thicket of the Jordan against a perennial pasture, I will suddenly make them run away from her, and I will appoint over her whomever I choose. For who is like me? Who will summon me? What shepherd can stand before me? Therefore hear the plan that the Sovereign has made against Babylon, and the purposes that he has formed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the little ones of their flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be appalled at their fate. At the sound of the capture of Babylon the earth shall tremble, and her cry shall be heard among the nations.”

  7. 1 month ago

    “Set up a standard against the walls of Babylon;
    make the watch strong;
    set up watchmen;
    prepare the ambushes;
    for the Lord has both planned and done
    what he spoke concerning the inhabitants of Babylon.
    O you who dwell by many waters,
    rich in treasures,
    your end has come;
    the thread of your life is cut.
    The Lord of hosts has sworn by himself:
    Surely I will fill you with men, as many as locusts,
    and they shall raise the shout of victory over you.

    “It is he who made the earth by his power,
    who established the world by his wisdom,
    and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
    When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens,
    and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth.
    He makes lightning for the rain,
    and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
    Every man is stupid and without knowledge;
    every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols,
    for his images are false,
    and there is no breath in them.
    They are worthless, a work of delusion;
    at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
    Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob,
    for he is the one who formed all things,
    and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance;
    Yahweh Sabaoth is his name.

  8. 1 month ago

    Building and maintaining infrastructure of that kind requires a lot of surplus wealth and manpower to be funneled into the cities. When powerful states go through periods of decay due to war, famine, plague or any other reason these things become harder and harder to maintain. Cities are sacked and might not recover, a capital could be changed (so wealth is siphoned someplace else) or climate change in the form of the region cooling, getting hotter or the quality of the soil eroding over time can also have devastating effects. The Mesopotamian region isn't nearly as fertile as it used to be, on an episode of Fall of Civilizations about Sumeria the creator talked about how there were records of harvest failures and over time there was a shift in focus to crops that were more resistant to salt and dry climate, hinting at a decline in agricultural capacity for staple crops.

    • 1 month ago


      What needs to be maintained? The stones are already stacked.

      • 1 month ago

        Everything wasn't built out of stone and even stone doesn't last forever, evident by the vast amounts of castle ruins all over Europe. Everything needs to be regularly cleaned. Some places would need gardening to prevent weeds from growing everywhere (a better example of this would be regressed civilizations in South East Asia where the jungle just reclaimed whole cities as they were abandoned), painted works need to be repainted, things like that.

    • 1 month ago

      >over time there was a shift in focus to crops that were more resistant to salt and dry climate

      Well, frick...

  9. 1 month ago

    All of these reconstruction are pure fantasy I'm afraid

  10. 1 month ago

    >fate of empires

  11. 1 month ago

    >self destruct

  12. 1 month ago

    Mudbricks have to be replaced every 20 or so years.

  13. 1 month ago

    Mesopotamians had a habit of destroying everything they conquer then rebuild it until the snake has bitten it’s tail

  14. 1 month ago

    2500 year gap anon

  15. 1 month ago

    What leads to the downfall of civilizations generally is democracy and socialism. Ancient civilization relied on masses of slaves. During these dark past times, those of the first civilizations, a man wouldn't even be considered civilized if he worked some low menial job. They would either lead the comfy life of a nobleman, or go to the military or hold a governmental position. And all these civilized people saw slavery as the basis for civilization and the slaves were not considered to be civilized folks. Neither were the tribes who might have achieved very sophisticated levels of civilized life, but who did not have slaves.
    So they earliest societies held and commanded these masses of slaves, directed by a middle class of administrators and leaders, themselves servile to the nobility and royalty.
    However, how can we explain the growth of a social decay, of mad philosophers inventing social theorems about equality when there was no previous history that told the story of past societies decaying into democracy and socialism, when those examples did not exist, because it is the first proper societies we are talking from? Practical and down to earth as we have to imagine the people and the social climate of that time, they didn't philosophize much about the order of society, because they wouldn't have seen the sense to do so. In fact, I cannot consider a situation in wich any sort of slave revolt could have formed itself out of a few middle or upper class madlads corrupting society through the form of writing pseudoscientifical slop about the equality of the humans. Not than after long periods of social changes, of long social evolutions brought by society becoming increasingly more complex and specialized.
    Indeed, I do not see these early societies collapsing, because they were ideal from every point of view in that every caste was, not even by the law but by the ideas it's people naturally held, impermeable and segregated from each other.
    End part 1

    • 1 month ago

      Neither could they have collapsed by foreign conquest. Warlike and in constant aggression and competition against their neighbouring civilizations as early societies naturally were, they couldn't have collapsed by merely falling under the sword of a neighbouring (civilized) country. The laws might have been changed here and there, and the ruling class partly replaced by foreigners, but collapse, no, because the social building would have remained standing, it would have lead to a progress of the general standard and sociability by it's cities becoming associated to other cities. Trade and commerce would have increased, not only that of objects but also that of ideas.
      Here, I see the rise of a parasitical merchant class who, first living as half-nomads in their wagons going from city to city in order to exchange ware, become more powerful because the now-empire has itself become more rich, and there being more gold in circulation, the merchant class would have as well. However, the merchants, the demi-urban nomads who they were in this dark faraway era, would have been too far away from the immediate necessity even at that time so as to catch serious attention of the ruling classes. They were something outside of society because most of the times the nobility satisfied it's needs with slaves. In short, they didn't need them, and only individuals visited their smelly tents as a last resort to adquire this or that specific ware. Again, long social developments would have been necessary for the merchant class to make a social collapse happen.
      End part 2

      • 1 month ago

        So, as a conclusion, ancient societies could not collapse because they were too perfect, and they were perfect because they were aristocratic utopias where the nobilities did not sympathize with the lower classes and the foreigners, and because everyone obeyed them and their master the God-Monarch without question.
        If they died, they died a natural death like do those people who lead fulfilling lifes.
        They were succeeded by a period inferior to their own, a period I have named Middle Antiquity.

  16. 1 month ago

    >What happened?
    Assyrians, Islam, Turkic migration, Mongols happened in that order.

  17. 1 month ago

    Economics. Technically, Iraq could rebuild it, but it is economically in a worse shape than it was 2000 years ago and the prices of all the materials you see in the Hanging Gardens have inflated absurdly.

    It's too bad the Saudis would never be cool enough to fund something like that over their tacky Las Vegas kitsch.

  18. 1 month ago

    It's amazing how stupid people ITT are. Mudbrick doesn't last long without maintainance and the town of hillah was built on top of babylon

  19. 1 month ago

    The river shifted

  20. 1 month ago

    >Many historical accounts detailed the cruelties of the Mongol conquerors.

    >The Grand Library of Baghdad, containing countless precious historical documents and books on subjects ranging from medicine to astronomy, was destroyed. Survivors said that the waters of the Tigris ran black with ink from the enormous quantities of books flung into the river and red from the blood of the scientists and philosophers killed.

    >Citizens attempted to flee, but were intercepted by Mongol soldiers who killed in abundance. The loss of life was several hundred thousand.

    >The Mongols looted and then destroyed mosques, palaces, libraries, and hospitals. Grand buildings that had been the work of generations were burned to the ground.

    >The caliph was captured and forced to watch as his citizens were murdered and his treasury plundered. According to most accounts, the caliph was killed by trampling. The Mongols rolled the caliph up in a rug, and rode their horses over him, as they believed that the earth was offended if touched by royal blood. All but one of his sons were killed, and the sole surviving son was sent to Mongolia, where Mongolian historians report he married and fathered children, but played no role in Islam thereafter.

    >Hulagu had to move his camp upwind of the city, due to the stench of decay from the ruined city.

    >Baghdad was a depopulated, ruined city for several centuries and only gradually recovered some of its former glory.

    >The Mongol invasion destroyed much of the irrigation infrastructure that had sustained Mesopotamia for many millennia. Canals were cut as a Mongol military tactic and never repaired. So many people died or fled that neither the labor nor the organization were sufficient to maintain the canal system. It broke down or silted up.

    • 1 month ago

      Gengis Khan happened

      why are you bringing up mongols..? the people that destroyed babylon were Medians (persians)
      Mongols sacked northernwestern Iranian provinces and mosques. Nothing remained of Babylon for them to sack.

  21. 1 month ago

    IQfy continues to impress by providing absolutely cream-of-the-crop schizos. other boards simply cannot compete in quality. as a gentleman of refined tastes, i must thank you all for your great posts and i hope that you will continue contributing to the board. genuine chuckles like these are harder and harder to come by for me.

    • 1 month ago

      I think it's more that you expect to see schizos on /misc/ and /x/ so you don't even bother to read most of the shit posted on those boards cause you know it's not worth your time. Here, there is a veneer of academia, of actual intellect, only for it to also be mostly the same collection of idiotic schizophrenics posting their nonsense.

  22. 1 month ago

    Demographic change.

  23. 1 month ago

    Millennia of conquests and raids by the latest steppe Black folk to ride into Mesopotamia. The farming techniques employed by the Mesopotamians also caused the salinity of the soil to increase, ruining agriculture along stretches of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

    Basically, the entire region peaked economically 3000 years ago and it's been struggling in vain to reclaim that peak since. It had a long way to fall, though, since even remnants of those lost empires like the later Persian empires were still very powerful and wealthy, just much less so than the heights of the Bronze Age.

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