>hmm, multiplayer games break when window is occluded

>hmm, multiplayer games break when window is occluded
>adding new protocol that tells apps that they are not being rendered by compositor is bad
>rendering apps even when they are occluded is bad
>throttle the app to render at 1Hz
PERFECT

Lets post some broken by design fuel here:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/159
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/188
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/18359
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/99

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    to be honest i get why they want to force wayland on people, its most likely because they want it to mature faster with bug reports but it wont happen because people will switch back to x11 or back to macos/windows because of how broken it is. im not even including people who use nvidia like me.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >fix bugs faster
      yeah tell that to the socket stall PR that's been open for 3 years and is most reported crash on firefox

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        what does X do?
        i can SIGSTOP an X program for days and continue it without any issue

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          On wayland that will crash if compositor tries to send any events to the app since the socket will fill up. But on X11 if you do SIGSTOP then of course that will have same effect on multiplayer games, the connection will break.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But on X11 if you do SIGSTOP then of course that will have same effect on multiplayer games, the connection will break.
            well obviously, but i'm not talking about multiplayer games, rather in general

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah the general case is worse in wayland

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            which is why i wonder what X does
            i've skimmed over the huge bug report about it on wayland, where people can't imagine how it can be fixed, and that anything they do will break something
            ... but it works on X, so there must be a difference
            i can only assume it's something like "well we can't guarantee anything if we start dropping messages, which goes against our ethos of every frame is perfect, so deal", wayland doesn't seem like a pragmatic protocol, it only seem to care about ideals, not reality

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think X11 simple discards if client does not respond.

            [...]
            like, can wayland not handle clip related?

            You can see it on this gif. If it was wayland and if it did not crash, the browser would scroll really fast for a while since it would process all the buffered input events

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            both of those are my post, and yea, i understand the desire of wayland to keep things perfectly coherent, but that's just unrealistic, computers have limited memory, so it's impossible to guarantee coherence given an arbitrary-length process suspension. it needs to be able to handle desyncs gracefully, not like now where it just kills the program
            if i want to sigstop a game to do something else to reduce power usage then resume it an hour later, i should be able to do so

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            both of those are my post, and yea, i understand the desire of wayland to keep things perfectly coherent, but that's just unrealistic, computers have limited memory, so it's impossible to guarantee coherence given an arbitrary-length process suspension. it needs to be able to handle desyncs gracefully, not like now where it just kills the program
            if i want to sigstop a game to do something else to reduce power usage then resume it an hour later, i should be able to do so

            really, for a supposedly new and improved display system, i would have expected to do MORE than i currently can, not less
            like a way to save and restore graphical/gpu programs
            have you heard of CRIU? i'd love to be able to use that on graphical programs, but it's not currently possible with X

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            which is why i wonder what X does
            i've skimmed over the huge bug report about it on wayland, where people can't imagine how it can be fixed, and that anything they do will break something
            ... but it works on X, so there must be a difference
            i can only assume it's something like "well we can't guarantee anything if we start dropping messages, which goes against our ethos of every frame is perfect, so deal", wayland doesn't seem like a pragmatic protocol, it only seem to care about ideals, not reality

            like, can wayland not handle clip related?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Lol, they might also want more teams to develop Wayland. I remember back when wayland had a "gnome moment", where people would fight you when someone actually developed features. Valve seems like the one that might actually save Wayland unironically because the "gnome dude" kind of shut their mouth instead of fighting someone who developed features when valve and kde joined to develop wayland

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >games

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >you vill own notink
      >you vill not have fun whit your life
      >you vill werk for me for rezt of yur life
      shalom rabbi are ve eating *ze bugs* tonight?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >shalom rabbi
        And konichiwa [shrine-maiden nippon word I don't care enough to look up] to you too.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you have to be 18 to post here

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            he's probably older than you, newbie.
            t. at least ~2008er

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            See

            >games

            (Me)

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do you freetards even care about more than high refresh rates?
    Isn't quake 3 arena still the only fps you can run?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it depends, are you talking about 2024 or 2002?

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >multiplayer games break when window is occluded
    How bad at programming do you have to be for that to happen? Why is the game's logic tied to the viewport this much?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Didn't read the report, but window visible tests are often used for optimization.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why does it have to suspend programs when their windows are occluded? That's bullshit enough but at least somewhat justifiable on a phone (man I miss Web OS with it's real multitasking) but on a laptop or desktop system? Get the frick out of here with that bullshit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It doesn't suspend the program, it simply doesn't send frame callbacks anymore. The program continues running like normal, it's just not supposed to draw anything to its windows. Which makes sense since they're not visible.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How does Wayland prevent the app from detecting that it's being throttled?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      By blocking on SwapBuffers, app could detect it if they had other thread or process being a watchdog, but the blocking thread can't be interrupted. The correct way (tm) to write wayland app is to write against its frame callback signaling paradigm. The ecosystem does not like while(true) {} loop apps and games.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >frame callback signal
        LMAO, sounds like javascript webgl garbage.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    microsoft sorted this shit out in 2006
    holy fricking shit freetards its been almost 20 years

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To be honest, Windows had also issue with various refresh rate monitors up until halfway of W10 life.
      I do not know the autistic details or terms for it, but 2019 LTSC finally fixed the behaviour of how running 60 fps content on your 60hz 2nd screen would make your 144+ monitor stutter frames waiting for the 60hz monitor to refresh. The difference was immense and i'm glad it's now over, but that's how it worked since the XP up until now.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why doesn't wayland just drop mouse movement events if the client doesn't respond? you don't need every single movement if you have absolute coordinates and that would deal with the vast majority of buffer filling up. You could do the same for all other stateless events.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >>hmm, multiplayer games break when window is occluded
    sounds like a shitty program tbh.
    wayland saved you from yourself.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you can but you shouldn't

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        why not
        >have laptop (60Hz)
        >buy external monitor
        >high refresh rate is exceedingly common and barely more expensive, and everything is much smoother and easier on the eyes on it
        Why would you either throttle it to 60Hz or be forced to turn off your laptop monitor?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Using it rn with no problems, AMDGPU of course. NVIDIA is another story though.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        what about intel (igpu)

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Never tried it. I heard people don't have many problems but you should ask others.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You can do that on nvidia as well, but you have to set an environment variable to the highest refresh rate monitor

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    works on my machine

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >3 years ago
    >2 years ago
    >1 year ago
    >2 years ago
    if you dont like it, simply dont use it, moron

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Actually it works kinda fine, but you have to do some preparations. For programs that use SDL as a window system (most of games, actually), you have to do put this line here on ~/.profile:
    export SDL_VIDEODRIVER="wayland,x11"

    And you have to do the same for other window systems too.
    *it works* but my problem with Wayland is the high cache pollution because of the packing/unpacking of events. Every fricking game that i tested in both X11 and Wayland, Wayland was slower, and when i got to run the game with perf to check for cache-misses, cache-misses on wayland sessions skyrocketed to 10%+, while in X11 were all around 1%~2% range.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i can't think of a single advantage to using wayland

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is my issue with linux compatibility.
    >Hey guys we wrote a better replacement for x
    >try it
    >its missing 90% of the function of x

    Had this exact problem with libinput on a laptop, couldn't get the sensitivity of a touch pad and scroll bar to work right, looked on google for an answer everything pertains to synaptics which is no longer used and libinput only had basic config options.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing is stopping you from just using synaptics unless you're using some moronic display server (that's actually just a protocol) where the compositor controls what input drivers you use.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wayland more like NO WAYland

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      HAAAAAA

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Weird, I can use my laptop screen at 120Hz and my 144Hz display on X11 with no problem (on AYYMD iGPU)

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
    wayland never caused any problems for me, even with games
    its only slightly bit more of a hassle for forwarding displays for e.h. SSH or containers

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the OP is asshurt because his game's render loop is tied to everything else and it can't handle being un-presented. It's basically shitty software problems by incompetent morons.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This was fixed already by lying about the framerate to the game

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >X11 kinda sucks... I can't use a 144hz monitor with a 60hz one
    works perfectly fine in X11 + proprietary nVidia + KDE
    I guess only real trannies have this problem

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nvidia being sorta-fine is very recent, and only happened because they gave up trying to be the de facto owner of the GNU/Linux desktop.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Nvidia being sorta-fine is very recent
        what?!
        nvidia was the best driver for Linux for decades
        I use nVidia cards + nVidia proprietary drivers since 2003. it *always* worked perfectly.

        contrary to the fglrx shitty amd/ati driver. and now the opensource shitty amd drivers.

        *and* nVidia supports legacy GPUs like 15 years back.
        literally my old 15 years old PC is still in use today.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >nvidia was the best driver for Linux for decades
          this
          >*and* nVidia supports legacy GPUs like 15 years back.
          this
          based

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Wayland
    kill this utter shot with fire already
    it's unusable crap that will never work because it is broken by design
    kill this delusional abomination and go back to working on X11

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This image is wrong. You can use a 144hz monitor with a 60Hz one on X11. It just doesn't work by default when using a compositor.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've been using Wayland since Ubuntu made it default. I didn't even notice the change

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >x11 sucks
    >wayland also sucks
    if every alternative sucks we can objectively say that the linux overall sucks

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