How did a pacifist religion like Christianity evolve into such a violent faith? Why did the Christians make so much war?

How did a pacifist religion like Christianity evolve into such a violent faith? Why did the Christians make so much war?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hatred is the core of Christianity. Hatred of women, hatred of non-heterosexuals, hatred of israelites, hatred of 'sinners' (so people who do not behave like israelites)...that this much hate would lead of violence is not surprising.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Hatred is the core of Christianity. Hatred of women, hatred of non-heterosexuals, hatred of israelites
      God, if only.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Hatred is the core of Christianity.
      Is that seriously your take away? You sure you weren't reading the Quran?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Christianity is a pacifist religion
        someone sold you a lie, kiddo

        it's not, but they have to invent stuff in order to seethe at something

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Read Nietzsche, it's all about the will to power. The inversion of values was to capture the minds of the Romans, then once they had the power, the priest class was able to control the strong and weak alike, like a parasite.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why must people start using a writer's vocabulary as soon as they mention them? I'm so sick of reading arch shit like 'inversion of values' and 'the will to power'. Nobody talks like that.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Shut the frick up.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        lvl1: the terms concisely summarize a useful concept
        lvl2: it sounds fancy

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because at first they did not have to govern. There were no "Christian countries" until Armenia became Christian in 301 AD so for the first 270 years of Christianity's existence, there was no need to fight - they never had the responsibility of defense.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    no religion even the most loving is immune from dark triad types and their reach upon human society.
    from time to time society toxifies.
    as for wars, the realities of our world are still there and sometimes shit hits the fan.
    Christianity is a religion of sinners because men are sinners.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Christianity is a religion of sinners because men are sinners.
      Sin is a Judeo-Christian ideological concept, it doesn't exist outside of Christianity, or in nature.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It exists in zoroastrianism, socrates never saw a israelite in his life yet did invent virtue ethics

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Sin is the violation of moral law, which exists in any functional system.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Compared to whom? Surviving in the real world requires violence, so you'll naturally have to allow for it using whatever justifications your system allows for, or you won't be around for long.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
      >You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail.
      >IF WE DON'T KILL ALL THESE FRICKING ARABS WE ARE GOING TO BE STOMPED OUT OF EXISTENCE
      Your mind on ideology.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
        >You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail.
        What about these contradicts the desire to continue to exist?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          How did Christianity spread all those years when it was being brutally persecuted by the Romans?

          It exists in zoroastrianism, socrates never saw a israelite in his life yet did invent virtue ethics

          Virtue ethics is a personal choice, read the beginning of Aristotle's Ethics to understand that. You have to want to flourish in order to adopt it, it's not a universally binding standard.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How did Christianity spread all those years when it was being brutally persecuted by the Romans?
            Partly *by* being persecuted, sacrifice and martyrdom are always inspiring to many people. Also, by appealing to those that the existing system didn't have anything to offer.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's my point. So if Christianity spreads through persecution, why did it matter if the Arabs conquered them?
            >inb4 they'll all get converted
            Why? What makes them so different from the Romans?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They are brown and alien.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Those Roman times were pretty tough for the Christians, as you may be aware. Once you're strong enough to use violence instead, it's clearly the preferable option.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Those who live by the sword die by the sword
            >My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the israelites; but now My kingdom is not from here.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Plenty of other quotes to justify a doctrine of just war as well, if that's the game you want to play. As always, you can find passages to justify pretty much anything.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus literally says not to fight, not to wage war on his behalf, and many Christians will still find a way to sate their bloodlust and hatred of human life. Just War was made up by men like Augustine to justify the Romans continuing to act like the Fourth Beast of Daniel. Did you know that in the Early Church it was required that soldiers and magistrates had to give up their positions in order to be baptized? That in later years one could not be a priest if they shed blood? That one would be denied the Eucharist if they killed someone? Everything points to pacifism and spreading the faith through love and peace, but somehow this got turned into the opposite.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            you realize all that can be true and it still doesn't mean Christianity is a pacifist religion

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It fundamentally is, Jesus died a humiliating death on a cross and the Apostles faced a similar fate. Just because men want Christianity to be a political system does not mean that it is, and more likely than not, if Christianity is true, they will all be damned for being workers of lawlessness.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >le pacifism
            lol, just lol

            I do however acknowledge that bull shit artists these days love to try and convince the gullible that it is.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            When was the last time you watched porn?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Son, I fricked your mom last night and we both told you to stay off the IQfys so don't make me ground you again, boy.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah yeah, talk to me when you actually go to Church and get baptized, LARPer.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The reality of being attacked by barbarians for a couple of centuries will cure you of that kind of ideology rather quickly. Adapt or perish - I think the Christians made the right call.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It shows a lack of trust in Jesus.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe so, it does show the presence of some common sense though.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            lmao, amazing that they've lasted this long, they really should be grateful for people like Augustine who managed to twist this sort of stuff into something sensible.

            >being attacked by barbarians should make you a barbarian
            we don't become barbarians because we don't like barbarians.
            we don't like barbarians because we grew out of it.
            we grew out of it because Jesus

            >defending yourself against an attacker makes you a barbarian

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            not getting my point makes you one

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm happy you grew out of violence, just don't let your less civilized neighbors know, they might get ideas.

            https://i.imgur.com/YsO8TzY.jpeg

            The Amish and Mennonites have been around like 400 years, all they had to do was go to the Americas. There are similar sects in Lutheran countries, such as the Laestadians in Finland, which also have lasted a fairly long time.

            Yes, those who live in civilized societies (which protect themselves through force of arms) get to outsource their violence to others.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >being attacked by barbarians should make you a barbarian
            we don't become barbarians because we don't like barbarians.
            we don't like barbarians because we grew out of it.
            we grew out of it because Jesus

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Christianity spread by the sword.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Holy war is in the heart of any religion, islam, christianity, hinduism, roman paganism, germanic paganism, no matter

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >pacifist

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Germanics and Mediterraneans adopting it

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's not "violent" to defend yourself.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        That means you should forgive minor offenses, not that you should allow foreign invaders to kill you and take your stuff.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” No, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
          >Never avenge yourselves
          >It's just about forgiving minor offenses bro
          >As he was on the cross, "Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I have set you an example so that you should do as I have done for you. Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Basically it was a reaction to Islam taking over 70 percent of the Christian world and raiding the entire Mediterranean for slaves to fill galleys and harems.

    Then colonialism happened as a result of the Ottomans taking Constantinople and cutting off trade with the east.

    Before then the biggest threat they had faced was Rome, who they converted, and the Huns.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      One thing I still can't explain is, why not violently resist persecution at the hands of the Romans? Sounds like that would have been a serious threat to Christianity's survival if Christians are being killed every other day. My guess is the obvious fact that such resistance would probably be futile and only make the persecution worse.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >why not violently resist persecution at the hands of the Romans

        Because it would not have been effective.
        Christians at the time were a tiny minority, so random stabbings or arson would have just brought the hammer down even harder. Your job is to convert people, not engage in self defeating terrorism that will only drive people away.

        Most of Jesus' teaching about the Romans is about how futile it is to resist them militarily, like what the zealot israelites wanted to do.

        He prescribed other methods to overcome and resist, effective ones. Nonviolent resistance is very underrated.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's pretty much what I figured. Remember how Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple? Yeah, that was a good lesson as to the consequences of violently resisting Rome that no Christian probably ever forgot.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            My thoughts exactly.

            Remember that bit where he says that if some compels you to carry their bag for a mile, to go an extra mile?

            He's talking about how the Romans would compel people passing on the road to carry their pack for a mile. It was a law.

            But Jesus knew that it was only a mile, and that their CO would reprimand them if they caught their men making someone go more than a mile. So he tells people to go the extra mile for the lulz.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Throughout history, there's always pacifist Christian branches popping up for you to join. They don't tend to last long, naturally, but if you think that's the way to be a real Christian, knock yourself out.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Amish and Mennonites have been around like 400 years, all they had to do was go to the Americas. There are similar sects in Lutheran countries, such as the Laestadians in Finland, which also have lasted a fairly long time.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The best.

        This is what peak performance looks like.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Christianity was always up to change into whatever.

  14. 2 months ago
    Radiochan

    "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." - Jesus Christ

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the Old Testament is in the Bible

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because after the pacifistic sects tried that shit they got fricking annihilated and only the fighty bastards were left.

    Shit, a couple hundred years ago you'd only see a Buddhist Monk if they were there to beat the shit out of anything over 65lbs and frick everyone's day up. Same exact shit for almost every single monastic orders military branch (and they all fricking had one, because reality is full of shitters). In fact, generally, the more warlike a civilization is the more their religions are weirdly pacifistic at the surface. Mostly because they appreciated and admired the same exact qualities they often lacked the ability to express. So they all made war and preached peace and tranquility, because their ideals extended outside of the world they lived in and mostly after death.

    Or I'm moronic

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's evolution at work.
    Pacifists refused to compete with their ruthless, savage peers, and as a result, got wiped out.
    Just like how the OT's neighboring tribes got wiped out because they were weaker.
    And how they themselves got BTFO by iron chariots, because they hadn't invented them yet, and so, paid the price for their outdated war tech.
    Simple as.

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