How did so many scholars get duped into taking this fairy tale seriously?

How did so many scholars get duped into taking this fairy tale seriously? It's literally just Conan the Barbarian minus the action.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's got nothing to do with what I posted above. You can't prove ANYTHING about the language they spoke.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You can tell from the language that it was a patriarchal and military society

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You can tell from the language that it was a patriarchal and military society

          the very first chuds

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All European cultures were like that. Matriarchal Europe is a meme.
            There are already many studies about this. The G2a farmers were also patriarchal (or at least patrilocal). Here's something new about neolithic farmers from Scandinavia (I'm guessing Funnelbeakers)

            >Repeated Plague Infections Across Six Generations of Neolithic Farmers

            >108 samples
            > Additionally, we reconstruct four multi-generation pedigrees, the largest of which consists of 38 individuals spanning six generations, showing a patrilineal social organisation.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Early Celts were matrilineal

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >You can't prove ANYTHING

        ok well if you and i enter an empty room and i ask you to put a blindfold on, and then i punch you in the face, then ask you to remove the blindfold, you can't PROVE that i punched you in the face. But do you have another, better, explanation?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're not attempting to "prove" that this is definitively the language they spoke. See all those little asterisks next to the words?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          this proves it's nothing more than theorized bullshit.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well, yeah. It's a theory. That's how this shit works. What do you want? Golden tablets? A time machine?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Do you and the guy above have a problem? you are debating with an anti-IE troll.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Well, yeah. It's a theory. That's how this shit works. What do you want? Golden tablets? A time machine?
            Are you ever study linguistic? the asterisks are representative of reconstructed words, of course, but that's where my problem with the lack of honesty of IE scholars comes in.
            You realize that asterisks have different types of acceptability and evidence support, don't you?
            I mean that MANY reconstructed asterisks do not even have a level of evidence required to be considered. It is, at the very least, hypotheses.
            I'm gonna tell you a secret.
            Do you know how linguistics uses sound and words for their reconstructions in PIE? they use literary words from several unrelated languages and often very distant from the original language, simply for the reason that such words make more sense for sound hypotheses that do not exist in more conservative languages.
            and do you know why this is moronic?? Latin words (italics) are often used to cover such holes and this is precisely the problem. the Latin languages have a very high agricultural substrate and they don't really know whether the suffix comes from an IE or EEF source.
            Do I understand how "reconstructions" are done? it is based on convenient assumptions.
            Lithuanian is considered one of the most conservative, but there are more uses of Proto-Italic for reconstructions than Lithuanian haha. Hittite itself doesn't even have some IE main verbs.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >they use literary words from several unrelated languages and often very distant from the original language, simply for the reason that such words make more sense for sound hypotheses that do not exist in more conservative languages.
            can you give some examples of that being done ?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Proves you’re a Dalit zagrosian baboon

      • 3 weeks ago
        Radiochan

        linguistic reconstructionism

        you can make suppositions based on shared mythologies, customs, and yes, recorded ancient languages like Hittite

        [...]
        Since I feel you're not gonna read it just like it's fine, I'll quote from it.

        Proto-Indo-Europeans possessed a Neolithic mixed economy based on livestock and subsidiary agriculture, with a wide range of economic regimes and various degrees of mobility that could be expected across the large Pontic-Caspian steppe. Tribes were typically more influenced by farming in the western Dnieper-Donets region, where cereal cultivation was practised, while the eastern Don-Volga steppes were inhabited by semi-nomadic and pastoral populations mostly relying on herding.
        Proto-Indo-European distinguished between unmovable and movable wealth (*péḱu, the "livestock"). As for the rest of society, economy was founded on reciprocity. A gift always entailed a counter-gift, and each party was bound to the other in a mutual relationship cemented by trust.

        From the reconstructable lexicon, it is clear that Proto-Indo-Europeans were familiar with wheeled vehicles—certainly horse-drawn wagons (*weǵʰnos)—as they knew the wheel (*kʷekʷlóm), the axle (*h2eḱs-), the shaft (*h2/3éih1os), and the yoke (*yugóm).[129] Although wheels were most likely not invented by Proto-Indo-Europeans, the word *kʷekʷlóm is a native derivation of the root *kʷel- ("to turn") rather than a borrowing, suggesting short contacts with the people who introduced the concept to them.

        The technology used was a solid wheel made of three planks joined with their outer edges trimmed to a circle. The swift chariot with spoked wheels, which made the mode of transport much more rapid and lighter, appeared later within the Sintashta culture (2100–1800), associated with the Indo-Iranians. As the word for "boat" (*néh2us) is widely attested across the language groups, the means of transport (likely a dugout canoe) was certainly known by Proto-Indo-Europeans.

        The vocabulary associated with metallurgy is very restricted and at best we can attest the existence of copper/bronze, gold, and silver. The basic word for "metal" (*h2ey-es) is generally presumed to mean "copper" or a copper-tin alloy of "bronze". "Gold" is reliably reconstructed as *h2eusom, and *h2erǵ-n̩t-om designated a "white metal" or "silver". Proto-Indo-Europeans were also familiar with the sickle (*sr̩po/eh2), the awl (*h1óleh2) for working leather or drilling wood, and used a primitive plough (*h2érh3ye/o) made of a curved and forked branch.

        The term for "oven" or "cooking vessel" (*h2/3ukʷ) has been reconstructed based on four branches, as for "baking" (*bʰōg-) and "boiling" (*yes-). They certainly drank beer (*h2elut) and mead (*médʰu), and the word for "wine" (*wóinom) has been proposed, although this remains a debated issue. Proto-Indo-Europeans produced textile, as attested by the reconstructed roots for wool (*wĺh2neh2), flax (*linom), sewing (*syuh1-), spinning (*(s)pen-), weaving (*h2/3webʰ-) and plaiting (*pleḱ-), as well as needle (*skʷēis) and thread (*pe/oth2mo). They were also familiar with combs (*kes) and ointments with salve (*h3engʷ-).

        Animals (mammals in particular) are fairly abundant in the reconstructed lexicon. We can ascribe about seventy-five names to various animal species
        They were familiar with cows (*gʷṓus), sheep (*h3ówis), goats (*díks, or *h2eiĝs) and pigs (*sūs ; also *pórḱos, "piglet").

        They knew dogs (*ḱwōn), milk (*ǵl̩ákt; also *h2melǵ-, "to milk") and dairy foods, wool (*wĺh2neh2) and woollen textiles, agriculture, wagons, and honey (*mélit). The domestication of the horse (*h1éḱwos), thought to be an extinct Tarpan species, probably originated with these peoples, and scholars invoke this innovation as a factor contributing to their increased mobility and rapid expansion.

        The dog was perceived as a symbol of death and depicted as the guardian of the Otherworld in Indo-European cultures (Greek Cerberus, Indic Śarvarā, Norse Garmr). The mytheme possibly stems from an older Ancient North Eurasian belief, as evidenced by similar motifs in Native American and Siberian mythology. In various Indo-European traditions, the worst throw at the game of dice was named the "dog", and the best throw was known as the "dog-killer". Canine teeth of dogs were frequently worn as pendants in Yamnaya graves in the western Pontic steppes, particularly in the Ingul valley.

        Linguistic evidence suggest that Proto-Indo-European speakers were also in contact with various wild animals, such as red foxes (*wl(o)p), wolves (*wl̩kʷo), bears (*h2ŕ̩tḱos), red deers (*h1elh1ēn), elks (moose) (*h1ólḱis), eagles (*h3or), otters (*udrós), snakes (*h1ógʷʰis), mice (*mūs ; from *mus-, "to steal"), or trouts (*lóḱs).
        Some of them were featured in mythological and folkloric motifs. Goats draw the chariots of the Norse and Indic gods Thor and Pushan, and they are associated with the Baltic god Perkūnas and the Greek god Pan. The words for both the wolf and the bear underwent taboo deformation in a number of branches, suggesting that they were feared as symbols of death in Proto-Indo-European culture.

        The term "wolf" is generally applied to brigands and outlaws who live in the wild. Ritual and mythological concepts connected with wolves, in some cases similar with Native American beliefs, may represent a common Ancient North Eurasian heritage: mai-coh meant both "wolf" and "witch" among Navajos, and shunk manita tanka a "doglike powerful spirit" among Očhéthi Šakówiŋ, while the Proto-Indo-European root *ṷeid ("knowledge, clairvoyance") designated the wolf in both Hittite (ṷetna) and Old Norse (witnir), and a "werewolf" in Slavic languages (Serbian vjedogonja and vukodlak, Slovenian vedanec, Ukrainian viščun).

        Damn, a serious of thoroughly detailed posts. What do you recommend for further reading that isn't Wikipedia?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not a single linguist thinks that Reconstructed PIE is 1:1 the same language spoken in real life, and there's no pretension in doing so.
        That's why it's a "reconstructed" language, and all the words have asterisks, a symbol that represents a hypothetical word.

        You are the dumb one who thought Reconstructed PIE was supposed to be true, in fact, it never was.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Not a single linguist thinks that Reconstructed PIE is 1:1 the same language spoken in real life
          Exactly, so it's just a fantasy conlang. You can't prove anything about it and you can't disprove anything about it. It fails to meet Popper's falsification criterion, which means it's unscientific.

          https://i.imgur.com/6q6n9dL.png

          The blonde european scythians be like

          Nice story, bro, but can you prove Scythians were identical to Proto-Indo-Europeans?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You just kill the pie language meme

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Conan the Barbarian was based on real events.

      the PIE emergence and expansion happened as a result of the north sea flooding and dam destructions.
      the godess/name Danu was introduced to the southeastern europe and eastwards by these migrants fleeing the destruction of this water godess.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Everything is political
    That's how all decisions like these are made
    Black folk wouldn't be the same species as humans if it was any other animal

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      a lot of former "subspecies" have been revealed as just color morphs via molecular DNA and black-eurasian divergence is recent (apart from the single digit percent % of neanderthal/denisovan admixture)

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        SSA's are approx. 20% homosexual erectus, something like that. Anons link study

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It wasn't homosexual erectus, and it's nowhere near that high for the vast majority of Africans. The average ranged from 2-19% with a mean estimate of 6-7% for some groups of Africans, and an unknown amount in Eurasians since the admixture happened pre-OoA. If you were stupid enough to belief it was homosexual erectus, a species that went extinct in Africa 900,000 years ago, stop watching Robert Sepehr.

          Honestly though, there's coyote and wolf populations that share 15-30% of each species DNA within them that are still classified as coyotes and wolves. Why would this be any different for humans?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because wolves and coyotes don't breed with eachother in the wild but humans of any physical description will breed with eachother provided they're both comfortable in the same environment and are capable of communication

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I found this stone and nobody can explain if it is proto-indoeuropean.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      where did you find it, why have you omitted several markings on the rock which look to be of the same type as the ones you have outlined, why is it that you have separated various features of the symbol from one another when all of the lines you have outlined are all connected to each other and form one large symbol
      can you find similar markings on nearby rocks, what variety of rock is it and is there evidence of sheeting or cracking, are the markings depressed or raised against the surface

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I upload a different picture. As you can see there is lichen (or whatever the name is) over the marks so it is hundreds of thousands of years old.

        I found it in a very rural and remote area in western Spain where there are some known neolithic structures and also very old idols on stones.

        It is just a stone in the middle of nowhere that probably no one has ever seen it for centuries (or maybe since forever) since it was in the middle of a hill in a place where there is nobody in several hours walking.

        I looked on nearby rocks and I did not see any one with other marks but there were many rocks so I just looked for 10-20 minutes. I think they are depressed but I am not 100% sure.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/clgVTvH.jpeg

          [...]
          *hundreds of thousands of years

          the universe itself is nowhere near 100,000 years old.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            *hundred OR thousands years old.

            Anyways the universe...is 14 billion years old.

            I flipped the image 180º

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >14 billion years old.
            proof?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          because they're all connected, I suspect you found a mapstone, and not a script.
          basically they just line up the heights, lows and rivers in a rock based on what they can see from one or two outlook points merged together. makes it possible to look beyond the current valley by looking at the rock.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I also had that theory that it could have been a mapstone (or the scheme for moving big stones for a neolithic tomb) since I have found near that place several structures like this one that it could probably be megalithic tombs.

            The idea that could be related with proto-indoeuropean is because there is resemblance with what I saw in that book about protoindoeuropean language that I posted on the 1st picture.

            Anyways the marks on the stone have been done by someone several thousands years ago for sure. And since no one can conclude about what it is I don´t think taking it to a museum would be a difference.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Taking it to a museum would actually make a world of difference, they could tell you a more precise dating for the markings and narrow down what language it might be, plus if it's an unrecorded Neolithic site they'd love to know where it is

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Someone did it for sure since the marks are not natural. And it would be stupid for someone from the modern age to do these stupids marks on a stone in the middle of nowhere.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/3DXhkf9.jpeg

          I upload a different picture. As you can see there is lichen (or whatever the name is) over the marks so it is hundreds of thousands of years old.

          I found it in a very rural and remote area in western Spain where there are some known neolithic structures and also very old idols on stones.

          It is just a stone in the middle of nowhere that probably no one has ever seen it for centuries (or maybe since forever) since it was in the middle of a hill in a place where there is nobody in several hours walking.

          I looked on nearby rocks and I did not see any one with other marks but there were many rocks so I just looked for 10-20 minutes. I think they are depressed but I am not 100% sure.

          *hundreds of thousands of years

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/3DXhkf9.jpeg

      I upload a different picture. As you can see there is lichen (or whatever the name is) over the marks so it is hundreds of thousands of years old.

      I found it in a very rural and remote area in western Spain where there are some known neolithic structures and also very old idols on stones.

      It is just a stone in the middle of nowhere that probably no one has ever seen it for centuries (or maybe since forever) since it was in the middle of a hill in a place where there is nobody in several hours walking.

      I looked on nearby rocks and I did not see any one with other marks but there were many rocks so I just looked for 10-20 minutes. I think they are depressed but I am not 100% sure.

      Take it to a museum, stupid.

      >hundreds of thousands of years old
      divide that by 100.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Conan the Barbarian was based on real events.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    An eurōpajonim bhəsoi?
    Pau bhəmai. Dom bhūjāi. Ghostis egṓ.
    Bhersi bhāmnons dhghmonṇs nē pretō.
    Eti jom mḷsēd bhantoi, ati weqos pṛkskō.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Literal $5 Doubleday fantasy novel-tier conlang

      >You can't prove ANYTHING

      ok well if you and i enter an empty room and i ask you to put a blindfold on, and then i punch you in the face, then ask you to remove the blindfold, you can't PROVE that i punched you in the face. But do you have another, better, explanation?

      An impatient person would jump to the conclusion that you were guilty, since you were the one who was closest to the observer when the incident took place, but a true skeptic would refrain from making any claims that cannot be substantiated by empirical evidence, even if doing so could lead to serious deadlocks and the loss of honor, since to a skeptic, unproven truths are of less value than social reputation.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nothing can be definitively proven. Extreme skepticism is a paralyzing philosophy and no one really believes it.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Nothing can be definitively proven.
          At first you started sounding real keyed and Stirnerpilled, but then you said
          >Extreme skepticism is a paralyzing philosophy and no one really believes it.
          which is a locked and gay statement.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If you seriously walked around in your day to day life believing nothing can be proven, that nothing can be shown to be real, then you cannot do anything. But obviously no one really believes that, even you don’t since you care to even argue about. It’s also produces no fruit. You can’t do anything with the notion that nothing can be proven completely. The ultimate skeptic produces nothing and lives in a constant state of uncertainty verging on schizophrenia. It’s one of the worst examples of over-intellectualizing yourself into a corner.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >An impatient person would jump to the conclusion that you were guilty, since you were the one who was closest to the observer when the incident took place, but a true skeptic would refrain from making any claims that cannot be substantiated by empirical evidence, even if doing so could lead to serious deadlocks and the loss of honor, since to a skeptic, unproven truths are of less value than social reputation.

        you understand that to speculate and hypothsize is the foundation of modern science, right? and you, too, are free to speculate and compete in the formulation of hypotheses..? you get that, right? nobody ever spat out a truth fully formed and perfect on the first try.. and one might even be so bold as to say that nothing anyone believes at present is a perfect and full truth.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          morons are literally incapable of separating themselves from the headcanon from which their conclusions are made.
          They do not function from an abstract point of view, but from a narrative point of view.
          Challenging the credibility of their headcanon narrative with an abstract comparison or analysis of oart of their headcanon narrative gets treated as a threat to their entire headcanon, and not the specific part that you target.
          Idiots exist on an objcetive individual level. They are simply not capable in their existant form to challenge any information which they perceive to be foundational.
          to them it's like questioning the existence of the ground itself.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >headcanon
            why do all of you autistic homosexuals love niche buzzwords so much?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            provide alternatives that the zoomers would understand then.
            >inb4 worldview, perception, to their knowledge etc.. boring vague shit

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >headcanon
            preconceived notions? false inferences? there is a whole fricking dictionary of words with agreed upon meanings. you needn't use some modern ambiguous homosexualy term, homosexual.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the ones you listed here has to do with specifics, and not the entirety of their views. you missed my entire complaint. good job tard.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sanskrit has cognates in almost all European languages and some old West Asiatic and Anatolian ones. They have a common origin.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What are borrowings?
      >What are areal features?
      >What are Sprachbünde?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >What is coping?
        >What is seething?
        >What is kvetching?
        >What is being a dumb inbred street-shitting low IQ benchod?
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse,_the_Wheel,_and_Language
        Behold (your) ancestors saar.

        • 3 weeks ago
          a

          I'm of Spanish ancestry, and I don't care about Proto-Indo-European stuff because you can't demonstrate anything about it. Celtic stuff? Well, we got Celtic myths and a handful of inscriptions in ancient Celtic languages, as well as a large corpus of literature in modern Celtic languages.
          Roman stuff? We got a HUGE corpus of Latin literature written in the days of the Roman Republic and Empire.
          Germanic stuff? Oh, boy, we got sagas, mythology, poetry, fairy tales, modern novels, and tons of other stuff.
          Slavic and Baltic stuff? Well, written records only begin during the Middle Ages, but some of the world's greatest novelists and poets wrote in those languages, like Stanislaw Lem and Jaroslaw Hasek.
          But Proto-Indo-European stuff? We got nothing. We know nothing about the people who spoke the alleged ancestor of all other Indo-European languages. We don't know whether they were farmers, yak herders, or forest hunters. We know nothing about the national character or the customs and laws of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Did they have authoritarian governments? Did they have tribal confederacies? Did they have actual democracies? Hell, did they even have a trilled "r" or a guttural "r" in their language? We know nothing about them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >We know nothing
            You could literally just read the Wikipedia article on Proto-IE society or religion and save yourself the embarrassment.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >We know nothing
            You could literally just read the Wikipedia article on Proto-IE society or religion and save yourself the embarrassment.

            Since I feel you're not gonna read it just like it's fine, I'll quote from it.

            Proto-Indo-Europeans possessed a Neolithic mixed economy based on livestock and subsidiary agriculture, with a wide range of economic regimes and various degrees of mobility that could be expected across the large Pontic-Caspian steppe. Tribes were typically more influenced by farming in the western Dnieper-Donets region, where cereal cultivation was practised, while the eastern Don-Volga steppes were inhabited by semi-nomadic and pastoral populations mostly relying on herding.
            Proto-Indo-European distinguished between unmovable and movable wealth (*péḱu, the "livestock"). As for the rest of society, economy was founded on reciprocity. A gift always entailed a counter-gift, and each party was bound to the other in a mutual relationship cemented by trust.

            From the reconstructable lexicon, it is clear that Proto-Indo-Europeans were familiar with wheeled vehicles—certainly horse-drawn wagons (*weǵʰnos)—as they knew the wheel (*kʷekʷlóm), the axle (*h2eḱs-), the shaft (*h2/3éih1os), and the yoke (*yugóm).[129] Although wheels were most likely not invented by Proto-Indo-Europeans, the word *kʷekʷlóm is a native derivation of the root *kʷel- ("to turn") rather than a borrowing, suggesting short contacts with the people who introduced the concept to them.

            The technology used was a solid wheel made of three planks joined with their outer edges trimmed to a circle. The swift chariot with spoked wheels, which made the mode of transport much more rapid and lighter, appeared later within the Sintashta culture (2100–1800), associated with the Indo-Iranians. As the word for "boat" (*néh2us) is widely attested across the language groups, the means of transport (likely a dugout canoe) was certainly known by Proto-Indo-Europeans.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The vocabulary associated with metallurgy is very restricted and at best we can attest the existence of copper/bronze, gold, and silver. The basic word for "metal" (*h2ey-es) is generally presumed to mean "copper" or a copper-tin alloy of "bronze". "Gold" is reliably reconstructed as *h2eusom, and *h2erǵ-n̩t-om designated a "white metal" or "silver". Proto-Indo-Europeans were also familiar with the sickle (*sr̩po/eh2), the awl (*h1óleh2) for working leather or drilling wood, and used a primitive plough (*h2érh3ye/o) made of a curved and forked branch.

            The term for "oven" or "cooking vessel" (*h2/3ukʷ) has been reconstructed based on four branches, as for "baking" (*bʰōg-) and "boiling" (*yes-). They certainly drank beer (*h2elut) and mead (*médʰu), and the word for "wine" (*wóinom) has been proposed, although this remains a debated issue. Proto-Indo-Europeans produced textile, as attested by the reconstructed roots for wool (*wĺh2neh2), flax (*linom), sewing (*syuh1-), spinning (*(s)pen-), weaving (*h2/3webʰ-) and plaiting (*pleḱ-), as well as needle (*skʷēis) and thread (*pe/oth2mo). They were also familiar with combs (*kes) and ointments with salve (*h3engʷ-).

            Animals (mammals in particular) are fairly abundant in the reconstructed lexicon. We can ascribe about seventy-five names to various animal species
            They were familiar with cows (*gʷṓus), sheep (*h3ówis), goats (*díks, or *h2eiĝs) and pigs (*sūs ; also *pórḱos, "piglet").

            They knew dogs (*ḱwōn), milk (*ǵl̩ákt; also *h2melǵ-, "to milk") and dairy foods, wool (*wĺh2neh2) and woollen textiles, agriculture, wagons, and honey (*mélit). The domestication of the horse (*h1éḱwos), thought to be an extinct Tarpan species, probably originated with these peoples, and scholars invoke this innovation as a factor contributing to their increased mobility and rapid expansion.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The dog was perceived as a symbol of death and depicted as the guardian of the Otherworld in Indo-European cultures (Greek Cerberus, Indic Śarvarā, Norse Garmr). The mytheme possibly stems from an older Ancient North Eurasian belief, as evidenced by similar motifs in Native American and Siberian mythology. In various Indo-European traditions, the worst throw at the game of dice was named the "dog", and the best throw was known as the "dog-killer". Canine teeth of dogs were frequently worn as pendants in Yamnaya graves in the western Pontic steppes, particularly in the Ingul valley.

            Linguistic evidence suggest that Proto-Indo-European speakers were also in contact with various wild animals, such as red foxes (*wl(o)p), wolves (*wl̩kʷo), bears (*h2ŕ̩tḱos), red deers (*h1elh1ēn), elks (moose) (*h1ólḱis), eagles (*h3or), otters (*udrós), snakes (*h1ógʷʰis), mice (*mūs ; from *mus-, "to steal"), or trouts (*lóḱs).
            Some of them were featured in mythological and folkloric motifs. Goats draw the chariots of the Norse and Indic gods Thor and Pushan, and they are associated with the Baltic god Perkūnas and the Greek god Pan. The words for both the wolf and the bear underwent taboo deformation in a number of branches, suggesting that they were feared as symbols of death in Proto-Indo-European culture.

            The term "wolf" is generally applied to brigands and outlaws who live in the wild. Ritual and mythological concepts connected with wolves, in some cases similar with Native American beliefs, may represent a common Ancient North Eurasian heritage: mai-coh meant both "wolf" and "witch" among Navajos, and shunk manita tanka a "doglike powerful spirit" among Očhéthi Šakówiŋ, while the Proto-Indo-European root *ṷeid ("knowledge, clairvoyance") designated the wolf in both Hittite (ṷetna) and Old Norse (witnir), and a "werewolf" in Slavic languages (Serbian vjedogonja and vukodlak, Slovenian vedanec, Ukrainian viščun).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The vocabulary associated with metallurgy is very restricted
            Killing the pie theory, again

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lack of evidence for theory ≠ killing a theory

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >lack of evidence
            Exactly

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The use of two-word compound words for personal names, typically but not always ascribing some noble or heroic feat to their bearer, is so common in Indo-European languages that it is certainly an inherited feature. These names often belonged in early dialects to the class of compound words that in the Sanskrit tradition are called bahuvrihi.
            A second type of compound consists of a noun followed by a verbal root or stem, describing an individual performing an action.

            Many Indo-European personal names are associated with the horse (*h1éḱwos) in particular, which expressed both the wealth and nobility of their bearer. Since domestic animals also served to sacrifice, there were often used as exocentric structures in compound names (the bearers are not 'horses' themselves but 'users of horses' in some way), in contrast to endocentric personal names rather associated with wild animals like the wolf.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Poetry and songs were central to Proto-Indo-European society. The poet-singer was the society's highest-paid professional, possibly a member of a hereditary profession that ran in certain families, the art passing from father to son as the poet had to acquire all the technical aspects of the art and to master an extensive body of traditional subject matter. He performed against handsome rewards—such as gifts of horses, cattle, wagons and women—and was held in high esteem.

            A transmitter of inherited cultural knowledge, the poet sang as a recall of the old heroic times, entrusted with telling the praises of heroes, kings, and gods. Composing sacred hymns ensured the gods would in turn bestow favourable fate to the community, and for kings that their memory would live on many generations. A lexeme for a special song, the *erkw ("praise of the gift") has been identified in early Proto-Indo-European.

            The concept of fame (*ḱléwos) was central to Proto-Indo-European poetry and culture. Many poetic dictions built on this term can be reconstituted, including *ḱléwos wéru ("wide fame"), *ḱléwos meǵh2 ("great fame"), *ḱléuesh2 h2nróm ("the famous deeds of men, heroes"), or *dus-ḱlewes ("having bad repute"). Indo-European poetic tradition was probably oral-formulaic: stock formulas, such as the imperishable fame (*ḱléwos ń̥dʰgʷʰitom), the swift horses (*h1ōḱéwes h1éḱwōs), the eternal life (*h2iu-gʷih3), the metaphor of the wheel of the sun (*sh2uens kʷekʷlos), or the epithet man-killer (*hₐnr̥-gʷhen), were transmitted among poet-singers to fill out traditional verse-lines in epic song lyrics.
            The poet would compose and retell poems based on old and sometimes obscure formulations, reconnecting the motifs with his own skills and improvisations. Poetry was therefore associated with the acts of weaving words (*wékʷos webh-) and crafting speech (*wékʷos teḱs-).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Although Proto-Indo-Europeans have been often cast as warlike conquerors, their reconstructed arsenal is not particularly extensive. There is no doubt that they possessed archery, as several words with the meaning of "spear" (*gʷéru ; *ḱúh1los), "pointed stick" (*h2eiḱsmo) or "throwing spear" (*ǵʰai-só-s) are attested. The term *wēben meant a "cutting weapon", probably a knife, and *h2/3n̩sis a "large offensive knife", likely similar to bronze daggers found across Eurasia around 3300–3000 BCE. Proto-Indo-Europeans certainly did not know swords, which appeared later around 2000–1500. The axe was known as *h4edʰés, while the word *spelo/eh2 designated a wooden or leather shield. The term *leh2wós meant "military unit" or "military action", while *teutéh2- might have referred to the "adult male with possession" who would mobilize during warfare.

            A number of scholars propose that Proto-Indo-European rituals included the requirement that young unmarried men initiate into manhood by joining a warrior-band named *kóryos. They were led by a senior male and lived off the country by hunting and engaging in raiding and pillaging foreign communities. Kóryos members served in such brotherhoods (Männerbünde) for a number of years before returning home to adopt more respectable identities as mature men. During their initiation period, the young males wore the skin and bore the names of wild animals, especially wolves (*wl̩kʷo) and dogs (*ḱwōn), in order to assume their nature and escape the rules and taboos of their host society.

            A continuity of an "animal-shaped raid culture" has been also postulated based on various elements attested in later Indo-European-speaking cultures, such as the Germanic Berserkers, the Italic Ver Sacrum, and the Spartan Crypteia, as well as in the mythical Celtic fianna and Vedic Maruts, and in the legend of the werewolf ("man-wolf"), found in Greek, Germanic, Baltic and Slavic traditions alike.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The reconstructed cosmology of the proto-Indo-Europeans shows that the ritual sacrifice of cattle, cows in particular, was at the root of their beliefs, as the primordial condition of the world order. The myth of *Trito, the first warrior, involves the liberation of cattle stolen by a three-headed serpent named *Ngwhi. After recovering the wealth of the people, Trito eventually offered the cattle to the priest in order to ensure the continuity of the cycle of giving between gods and humans. The creation myth could have rationalized raiding as the recovery of cattle that the gods had intended for the people who sacrificed properly. Many Indo-European cultures preserved the tradition of cattle raiding, which they often associated with epic myths.

            The study of astronomy was not much developed among Proto-Indo-Europeans, and they probably had established names for only a few individual stars and star-groups (e.g. Sirius, Ursa Major).

            Proto-Indo-European beliefs were influenced by a resistant animistic substratum, and the few names that can be reconstructed based upon both linguistic (cognates) and thematic (reflexes) evidence are the cosmic and elemental deities: the 'Daylight-Sky' (*Dyḗus), his partner 'Earth' (*Dʰéǵʰōm), his daughter the 'Dawn' (*H2éwsōs), and his Twin Sons, the 'Sun' (*Séh2ul) and the Sun-Maiden, and deities of winds, waters, fire, rivers and springs. The Proto-Indo-European creation myth tells of a primordial sacrifice performed by the first man *Manu ("Man") on his twin brother *Yemo ("Twin"), from whom emerged the cosmological elements. Other deities, such as the weather-god *Perkʷunos and the guardian of roads and herds, *Péh2usōn, are probably late innovations since they are attested in a restricted number of traditions

            And so on and so forth.
            So you see, we know "nothing".

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            thank you for the informations.
            I didn't know about some actually
            But can I be honest? you literally threw temoo away because this moronic troll has been doing this for a few months denying anything IE.
            First he had a kind of anger towards the non-med, now he denies it and says that "we have no proof".
            related photo is a topic he made a while ago.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >pic
            This is particularly funny given the respect learned Greeks and Scythians actually had for each others.
            The (probably legendary) Scythian philosopher-king Anacharsis was sometimes included as one of the Seven Sages of Greece, or mythologized to be a friend of Solon of Athens. I seem to remember Athenian cops were nicknamed Scythians (or maybe just dressed like Scythians)
            Some philosophers and historians like Ephorus were noted Scythiaboos. Plato often took inspiration from Scythians for his social engineering fantasies.
            So yes, I'd be curious to see how he'd react.
            Inversely they spoke fondly of the fact that the Scythians apparently venerated some Greek heroes.

            So yes, I'd be curious to see how he'd react.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You did not see anything yet.
            I'm sure it's the same guy, because he uses the same argument that "we don't know anything".
            the photo is just one of a few insane posts he's made. you unfortunately passed information to someone and a forum that only cares about memes..

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no? Have you read Greek accounts of the Scythians? they were seen as dirty barbarians.
            and the Greeks treated them with disdain
            muh effeminate people, even if it is false, it is just evidence of how badly they were seen as Greeks
            Of course, starting from the premise that there was a Scythian group

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Have you read Greek accounts of the Scythians?
            Have you? Who did you read?

            Here's Herodotus for example:
            >The Euxine sea, where Darius now went to war, has nations dwelling around it, with the one exception of the Scythians, more unpolished than those of any other region that we know of. For, setting aside Anacharsis and the Scythian people, there is not within this region a single nation which can be put forward as having any claims to wisdom, or which has produced a single person of any high repute.
            Did you catch that? The Euxine (Black) Sea is surrounded by nations "more unpolished than any other region"... "there is not a single nation" there that has "any claims to wisdom" or has produced any great men... with the sole exception of the Scythians and their wise Anacharsis in particular.
            Herodotus is, if anything, a Scythia-hater (he particularly despises their cannibalistic rites) and has plenty of unflattering anecdotes about them. ("Their customs otherwise are not such as I admire.")
            But he can't even speak of the coarse barbarians living around the Black Sea, without singling out Scythians as a brilliant exception among them.
            He also admires their nomadic ways, because it makes them unconquerable: "The Scythians indeed have in one respect, and that the very most important of all those that fall under man's control, shown themselves wiser than any nation upon the face of the earth."
            He also relates that the Scythians claim descent from "Jupiter" (he is outraged at the gall of them) but also that the Pontic Greeks claim they are descended from Heracles' son Scythes, something he apparently finds acceptable (!)

            Book 4 of his Histories is largely devoted to the Scythians and contains a wealth of information about them. Go read it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            As an aside, Herodotus, listing all the Scythian people in the region:

            >The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs each way, built entirely of wood. All the houses in the place and all the temples are of the same material. Here are temples built in honour of the Grecian gods, and adorned after the Greek fashion with images, altars, and shrines, all in wood. There is even a festival, held every third year in honour of Bacchus, at which the natives fall into the Bacchic fury. For the fact is that the Geloni were anciently Greeks, who, being driven out of the factories along the coast, fled to the Budini and took up their abode with them. They still speak a language half Greek, half Scythian.

            What book?
            Ps: i m not this fool

            Indo-European Poetry by M. L. West. It's on libgen

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            my bad, Indo-European Poetry AND MYTH*

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For all of Herodotus' dislike of Scythians, he also can't help lionizing them when they're making fools of the Persians. He certainly likes their attitudes:

            Darius at last sent a horseman to Idanthyrsus, the Scythian king, with the following message:- "Thou strange man, why dost thou keep on flying before me, when there are two things thou mightest do so easily? If thou deemest thyself able to resist my arms, cease thy wanderings and come, let us engage in battle. Or if thou art conscious that my strength is greater than thine- even so thou shouldest cease to run away- thou hast but to bring thy lord earth and water, and to come at once to a conference."

            To this message Idanthyrsus, the Scythian king, replied:- "This is my way, Persian. I never fear men or fly from them. I have not done so in times past, nor do I now fly from thee. There is nothing new or strange in what I do; I only follow my common mode of life in peaceful years. Now I will tell thee why I do not at once join battle with thee. We Scythians have neither towns nor cultivated lands, which might induce us, through fear of their being taken or ravaged, to be in any hurry to fight with you. If, however, you must needs come to blows with us speedily, look you now, there are our fathers' tombs- seek them out, and attempt to meddle with them- then ye shall see whether or no we will fight with you. Till ye do this, be sure we shall not join battle, unless it pleases us. This is my answer to the challenge to fight. As for lords, I acknowledge only Jove my ancestor, and Vesta, the Scythian queen. Earth and water, the tribute thou askedst, I do not send, but thou shalt soon receive more suitable gifts. Last of all, in return for thy calling thyself my lord, I say to thee, 'Go weep.'" [Piss off?] So the herald departed, bearing this message to Darius.

            Kinda reminds me of a certain other reply to an oriental emperor...

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            When the Scythian kings heard the name of slavery they were filled with rage, and despatched the division under Scopasis to which the Sauromatae were joined, with orders that they should seek a conference with the Ionians, who had been left at the Ister to guard the bridge. [...]
            The Scythians, when they perceived signs that the Persians were becoming alarmed, took steps to induce them not to quit Scythia, in the hope, if they stayed, of inflicting on them the greater injury, when their supplies should altogether fail. To effect this, they would leave some of their cattle exposed with the herdsmen, while they themselves moved away to a distance: the Persians would make a foray, and take the beasts, whereupon they would be highly elated.

            This they did several times, until at last Darius was at his wits' end; hereon the Scythian princes, understanding how matters stood, despatched a herald to the Persian camp with presents for the king: these were, a bird, a mouse, a frog, and five arrows. The Persians asked the bearer to tell them what these gifts might mean, but he made answer that he had no orders except to deliver them, and return again with all speed. If the Persians were wise, he added, they would find out the meaning for themselves. So when they heard this, they held a council to consider the matter.

            Darius gave it as his opinion that the Scyths intended a surrender of themselves and their country, both land and water, into his hands. This he conceived to be the meaning of the gifts [...]
            To the explanation of Darius, Gobryas, one of the seven conspirators against the Magus, opposed another which was as follows:- "Unless, Persians, ye can turn into birds and fly up into the sky, or become mice and burrow under the ground, or make yourselves frogs, and take refuge in the fens, ye will never make escape from this land, but die pierced by our arrows. Such were meanings which the Persians assigned to the gifts.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The single division of the Scyths, which in the early part of the war had been appointed to keep guard about the Palus Maeotis, and had now been sent to get speech of the Ionians stationed at the Ister, addressed them, on reaching the bridge, in these words- "Men of Ionia, we bring you freedom, if ye will only do as we recommend. Darius, we understand, enjoined you to keep your guard here at this bridge just sixty days; then, if he did not appear, you were to return home. Now, therefore, act so as to be free from blame, alike in his sight, and in ours. Tarry here the appointed time, and at the end go your ways." Having said this, and received a promise from the Ionians to do as they desired, the Scythians hastened back with all possible speed.

            [things turn bad for Darius who abandons some sick men to escape faster]
            >When day dawned, the men who had been left behind, perceiving that they were betrayed by Darius, stretched out their hands towards the Scythians, and spoke as befitted their situation. The enemy no sooner heard, than they quickly joined all their troops in one [...]
            Finding that the Persians were not yet arrived, they addressed the Ionians, who were aboard their ships, in these words:- "Men of Ionia, the number of your days is out, and ye do wrong to remain. Fear doubtless has kept you here hitherto: now, however, you may safely break the bridge, and hasten back to your homes, rejoicing that you are free, and thanking for it the gods and the Scythians. Your former lord and master we undertake so to handle, that he will never again make war upon any one."
            [But the ungrateful Ionians prefer to be under the Persian yoke and sabotage them]

            >And hence the Scythians are accustomed to say of the Ionians, by way of reproach, that if they be looked upon as freemen, they are the basest and most dastardly of all mankind- but if they be considered as under servitude, they are the faithfulest of slaves, and the most fondly at. to their lords.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How are you male
            In your own source
            >there is not within this region a single nation which can be put forward as having any claims to wisdom
            >or which has produced a single person of any high reputation.
            >Euxine (Black) Sea is surrounded by nations "more unpolished than any other region"..
            >he particularly regrets their cannibalistic rites
            >Scythia-hater
            >But he can't even speak of the coarse barbarians living around the Black Sea
            (Of course. You're going to say that many Scythians were the exception even though they had several derogatory comments, but you realize that these nomadic barbarians were literal "Scythians", don't you?)
            You tasted what I said and didn't even notice...
            But since you asked for some reports, since you helped me refute you, I present to you what I read:

            >blonde and white hair, like the Scythians, means stupidity, evilness and savageness
            Source: polemon, physiognomica 8.11

            Why on earth would anyone bother to associate with the Scythians, anyway? They were literally primitive nomads who lived in tents, their trinkets made by Greek artisans who immigrated to their Black Sea colonies.
            Persians and Indians, on the other hand, were described by the Greeks as mostly dark, and in fact, they were civilized, wealthy, and influential. See how Persian warriors are represented in Greek pottery, for example.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You're going to say that many Scythians were the exception
            I'm not saying that. Herodotus said verbatim, that Scythians were the sole exception among a coarse region. Repeat after me. Herodotus, not me.
            >but you realize that these nomadic barbarians were literal "Scythians", don't you?
            Herodotus didn't, funnily enough. Maybe someone should have told him while he was busy listing every tribe in the region and noting which ones were true Scythians or not.

            >polemon, physiognomica 8.11
            Anon, that's a 2nd century AD century Roman text. Yes, it was written by a Cappadocian Greek (you can imagine his features), but I was talking about classical Greeks, not people who lived half a millennium later, at a time when Rome was fighting blonde-haired barbarians on every border.
            Either way, you'd have to do better than that single quote by some eccentric who hates blonde hair (How many classical Greeks do you think despised blonde hair?)

            >Why on earth would anyone bother to associate with the Scythians, anyway?
            Because they were often mythologized as a race of noble savages and there was that one wise philosopher... You know, Herodotus didn't bring up Anacharsis for no reason. It's because Anacharsis was famous and he knew, if he wrote "all the people around the Black Sea are dumb savages", people would think "but wait, what about the wise Scythian Anacharsis?" So he had to mention the exception.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm going to go to work now, and I'll answer later (today lol)
            wait for me, but basically you just didn't understand what I said

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why of course anon, I'll be impatiently waiting for your return to continue this most productive discussion, I'm sure you have plenty of Greek sources you'll cite as soon as you come back.

            I hope you're good at flipping burgers at least.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And we never heard from him again

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm not saying that. Herodotus said verbatim, that Scythians were the sole exception among a coarse region. Repeat after me. Herodotus, not me.
            No. The Greeks and Romans always viewed the Scythians in a pejorative way, including as evidenced in your posts.. you are literally using individuals as evidence of some kind of exception. Do I need to say this is moronic? Stop forcing an admiration that never existed.
            >Herodotus didn't, funnily enough. Maybe someone should have told him while he was busy listing every tribe in the region and noting which ones were true Scythians or not.
            Why are you using semantics? Of course... the ancient Greeks and Romans used broad terms for various peoples (like the Celts, etc.) but magically they did not recognize that the "Scythians" were steppe people... even with similar clothing, culture and lifestyle. Of course.. don't still use this excuse, they knew that the "Scythians" (a group that doesn't exist genetically) were like the nomads of the steppes. Barbarians and strangers.
            Either way, you'd have to do better than that single quote by some eccentric who hates blonde hair (How many classical Greeks do you think despised blonde hair?)
            Your own texts prove what was written above.
            That the Scythians were barbarians and savages. What's the point here? Do you really think it was hatred for blonde hair when the description of salvation looks a lot like the ones you posted?
            Because they were often mythologized as a race of noble savages
            In fact, like murderous, disgusting, primitive barbarians. As you stated.
            and there was that one wise philosopher
            >one.
            Yes, because the "Scythians" were the aforementioned barbarian steppe nomads.
            >all the people around the Black Sea are dumb savages",
            Including the Scythians. Why do you use an individual as a representative of something general? What if I use Joana as an example of female warriors in the ancient world? It's fair?
            You proved they were they were barbaric

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The Greeks and Romans always viewed the Scythians in a pejorative way
            You haven't provided a single Classical source to support that, and you claim always?

            >Ephoros himself will only tell about those who follow “most just” habits, for there are some of the Scythian nomads who feed only on mare’s milk and excel all people in justice. They are mentioned by the poets: by Homer, when he says that Zeus spots the land “of the Galactophagians (milk-eaters) and Abians (those without a fixed source of living), men most just,” and by Hesiod, in what is called his Circuit of the Earth, when he says that Phineus is carried by the Storm Winds “to the land of the Galactophagians, who live in wagons.”

            >Then Ephoros reasons out the cause as follows: since they are frugal in their ways of living and not after money, they are not only orderly towards one another (because they have all things in common) but also remain invincible and unconquered by outsiders, because they have nothing to be enslaved for. Ephoros cites Choirilos also, who says, “the sheep-tending Sakians, of Scythian descent: they used to live in wheat-producing Asia, but they were colonists from law-abiding nomads.” Furthermore, when Ephoros calls Anacharsis “wise,” he says that he belongs to this descent group (genos), and that he was also considered one of the “Seven Sages” because of his perfect self-control and good sense.

            Strabo after citing Ephoros:
            >These things I tell knowing full well that Ephoros himself does not tell the whole truth about everything. [...] I tell them because I wish to make my point clear that there actually was a common report, which was believed by the men of both early and of later times, that a portion of the nomads, I mean those who had settled the farthest away from the rest of humankind, were “Galactophagians,” “Abians,” and “most just,” and that they were not an invention of Homer.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            More Strabo summarizing ancient sources:
            >Homer called “most just” and “proud” those who by no means spend their lives on contracts and money-getting but actually possess all things in common except sword and drinking-cup, and above all things have their wives and their children in common, in the Platonic way?
            >Aischylos, too, is clearly pleading the cause of the poet when he says about the Scythians: “But the Scythians, law-abiding, eaters of cheese made of mare’s milk.”
            >This assumption even now still persists among the Greeks, for we regard the Scythians the most straightforward of men and the least prone to mischief, as also far more frugal and independent of others than we are.

            >Those who lived before our times, and particularly those who lived near the time of Homer, were (and among the Greeks were assumed to be) some such people as Homer describes. Look at what Herodotos says concerning that king of the Scythians against whom Darius made his expedition, and the message which the king sent back to him. See also what Chrysippos says concerning the kings of the Bosporos, the house of Leuko. Not only are the Persian letters full of references to that straightforwardness of which I am speaking but also the memoirs written by the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Indians. It was on this account that Anacharsis, Abaris, and other men of the sort were in fair repute among the Greeks, because they displayed a nature characterized by complacency, frugality, and justice.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you proved what I said

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whatever helps you sleep at night, anon.

            >a common report, which was believed by the men of both early and of later times
            >Those who lived before our times, and particularly those who lived near the time of Homer, were (and among the Greeks were assumed to be) some such people as Homer describes

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Lucian, writing a dialogue about Scythians' worship of greek heroes:

            Mne. Now, Toxaris: do you mean to tell me that you people actually sacrifice to Orestes and Pylades? do you take them for Gods?
            Tox. Sacrifice to them? of course we do. It does not follow that we think they are Gods: they were good men.
            Mne. And in Scythia ‘good men’ receive sacrifice just the same as Gods?
            Tox. Not only that, but we honour them with feasts and public gatherings.
            Mne. But what do you expect from them? They are shades now, so their goodwill can be no object.
            Tox. Why, as to that, I think it may be just as well to have a good understanding even with shades. But that is not all: in honouring the dead we consider that we are also doing the best we can for the living. Our idea is that by preserving the memory of the noblest of mankind, we induce many people to follow their example.

            Mne. But what could you find to admire in Orestes and Pylades, that you should exalt them to godhead? Why, when they were shipwrecked on your coast, and your ancestors laid hands on them, and took them off to be sacrificed to Artemis, they assaulted the gaolers, overpowered the garrison, slew the king, carried off the priestess, laid impious hands on the Goddess herself, and so took ship, snapping their fingers at Scythia and her laws. If you honour men for this kind of thing, there will be plenty of people to follow their example, and you will have your hands full. It seems to me that it will soon end in your having no religion left at all: God after God will be expatriated in the same manner, and then I suppose you will supply their place by deifying their kidnappers, thus rewarding sacrilege with sacrifice. If this is not your motive in honouring Orestes and Pylades, I shall be glad to know what other service they have rendered you, that you should change your minds about them, and admit them to divine honours.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Tox. Now, in the first place, the incident you refer to is very much to their credit. Think of those two entering on that vast undertaking by themselves: sailing away from their country to the distant Euxine [Black Sea] —that sea unknown in those days to the Greeks, or known only to the Argonauts—unmoved by the stories they heard of it, undeterred by the inhospitable name it then bore, which I suppose referred to the savage nations that dwelt upon its shores; think of their courageous bearing after they were captured; how escape alone would not serve them, but they must avenge their wrong upon the king, and carry Artemis away over the seas. Are not these admirable deeds, and shall not the doers be counted as Gods by all who esteem prowess? However, this is not our motive in giving them divine honours.

            Mne. Proceed. What else of godlike and sublime was in their conduct? Because from the seafaring point of view, there are any number of merchants whose divinity I will maintain against theirs: the Phoenicians, in particular, have sailed to every port in Greek and foreign waters, let alone the Euxine, the Maeotian Lake and the Bosphorus; year after year they explore every coast, only returning home at the approach of winter. Hucksters though they be for the most part, and fishmongers, you must deify them all, to be consistent.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Tox. Now, now, Mnesippus, listen to me, and you shall see how much more candid we barbarians are in our valuation of good men than you Greeks. In Argos and Mycenae there is not so much as a respectable tomb raised to Orestes and Pylades: in Scythia, they have their temple, which is very appropriately dedicated to the two friends in common, their sacrifices, and every honour. The fact of their being foreigners does not prevent us from recognizing their virtues.
            We do not inquire into the nationality of noble souls: we can hear without envy of the illustrious deeds of our enemies; we do justice to their merits, and count them Scythians in deed if not in name. What particularly excites our reverent admiration in the present case is the unparalleled loyalty of the two friends; in them we have a model from which every man may learn how he must share good and evil fortune with his friends, if he would enjoy the esteem of all good Scythians.
            The sufferings they endured with and for one another our ancestors recorded on a brazen pillar in the Oresteum; and they made it law, that the education of their children should begin with committing to memory all that is inscribed thereon. More easily shall a child forget his own father’s name than be at fault in the achievements of Orestes and Pylades. [...]

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [the Scythian and Greek then engage in a contest of comparing who has the best rolemodels for friendship in their mythologies]
            Tox. I will commence with the recent story of Dandamis. In our conflict with the Sauromatae, Dandamis’s friend Amizoces had been taken captive,—oh, but first I must take the Scythian oath, as we agreed at the start. I swear by Wind and Scimetar that I will speak nothing but truth of the Scythian friendships.[...] Four days after Dandamis and Amizoces had shared the cup of blood, the Sauromatae invaded our territory with 10,000 horse, their infantry being estimated at three times that number. The invasion was unexpected, and we were completely routed; many of our warriors were slain, and the rest taken captive, with the exception of a few who managed to swim across to the opposite bank of the river, on which half our host was encamped, with a part of the waggons. The reason of this arrangement I do not know; but our leaders had seen good to divide our camp between the two banks of the Tanais. The enemy at once set to work to secure their booty and collect the captives; they plundered the camp, and took possession of the waggons, most of them with their occupants; and we had the mortification of seeing our wives and concubines mishandled before our very eyes.
            Amizoces was among the prisoners, and while he was being dragged along he called upon his friend by name, to witness his captivity and to remember the cup of blood. Dandamis heard him, and without a moment’s delay plunged into the river in the sight of all, and swam across to the enemy.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Sauromatae rushed upon him, and were about to transfix him with their raised javelins, when he raised the cry of Zirin. The man who pronounces that word is safe from their weapons: it indicates that he is the bearer of ransom, and he is received accordingly. Being conducted into the presence of their chief, he demanded the liberation of Amizoces, and was told in reply, that his friend would only be released upon payment of a high ransom.
            ‘All that was once mine,’ said Dandamis, ‘has become your booty: but if one who is stripped of all can have anything yet left to give, it is at your disposal. Name your terms: take me, if you will, in his place, and use me as seems best to you.’ ‘To detain the person of one who comes with the Zirin on his lips is out of the question: but you may take back your friend on paying me a part of your possessions.’ ‘What will you have?’ asked Dandamis. ‘Your eyes,’ was the reply. Dandamis submitted: his eyes were plucked out, and the Sauromatae had their ransom. He returned leaning on his friend, and they swam across together, and reached us in safety.

            There was comfort for all of us in this act of Dandamis. Our defeat, it seemed, was no defeat, after all: our most precious possessions had escaped the hands of our enemies; loyal friendship, noble resolution, these were still our own. On the Sauromatae it had the contrary effect: they did not at all like the idea of engaging with such determined adversaries on equal terms; gaining an advantage of them by means of a surprise was quite another matter. The end of it was, that when night came on they left behind the greater part of the herds, burnt the waggons, and beat a hasty retreat. As for Amizoces, he could not endure to see, when Dandamis was blind: he blinded himself, and the two now sit at home, supported in all honour at the public expense.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And now let me introduce you to another friend, not inferior to Dandamis,—a cousin of Amizoces, Belitta by name. Belitta was once hunting with his friend Basthes, when the latter was torn from his horse by a lion. Already the brute had fallen upon him, and was clutching him by the throat and beginning to tear him to pieces, when Belitta, leaping to earth, rushed upon him from behind, and attempted to drag him off, and to turn his rage upon himself, thrusting his hands into the brute’s mouth, and doing his best to extricate Basthes from those teeth. He succeeded at last: the lion, abandoning his half dead prey, turned upon Belitta, grappled with him, and slew him; but not before Belitta had plunged a scimetar into his breast. Thus all three died together; and we buried them, the two friends in one grave, the lion in another close by.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For my third instance, I shall give you the friendship of Macentes, Lonchates, and Arsacomas. This Arsacomas had been on a visit to Leucanor, king of Bosphorus, in connexion with the tribute annually paid to us by that country, which tribute was then three months overdue; and while there he had fallen in love with Mazaea, the king’s daughter. Mazaea was an extremely fine woman, and Arsacomas, seeing her at the king’s table, had been much smitten with her charms. The question of the tribute was at length settled, Arsacomas had his answer, and the king was now entertaining him prior to his departure. It is the custom for suitors in that country to make their proposals at table, stating at the same time their qualifications. Now in the present case there were a number of suitors—kings and sons of kings, among whom were Tigrapates the prince of the Lazi and Adyrmachus the chief of the Machlyans. [...]

            ‘Sire,’ [Arsacomas] said, ‘give me your daughter Mazaea to wife: if wealth and possessions count for anything, I am a fitter husband for her than these.’ Leucanor was surprised: he knew that Arsacomas was but a poor commoner among the Scythians. ‘What herds, what waggons have you, Arsacomas?’ he asked; ‘these are the wealth of your people.’ ‘Waggons and herds I have none,’ was Arsacomas’s reply: ‘but I have two excellent friends, whose like you will not find in all Scythia.’ His answer only excited ridicule; it was attributed to drunkenness, and no further notice was taken of him. Adyrmachus was preferred to the other suitors, and was to take his bride away the next morning to his Maeotian home.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Arsacomas on his return informed his friends of the slight that had been put upon him by the king, and of the ridicule to which he had been subjected on account of his supposed poverty. ‘And yet,’ he added, ‘I told him of my wealth: told him that I had the friendship of Lonchates and Macentes, a more precious and more lasting possession than his kingdom of Bosphorus. But he made light of it; he jeered at us; and gave his daughter to Adyrmachus the Machlyan, because he had ten golden cups, and eighty waggons of four seats, and a number of sheep and oxen. It seems that herds and lumbering waggons and superfluous beakers are to count for more than brave men. My friends, I am doubly wounded: I love Mazaea, and I cannot forget the humiliation which I have suffered before so many witnesses, and in which you are both equally involved. Ever since we were united in friendship, are we not one flesh? are not our joys and our sorrows the same? If this be so, each of us has his share in this disgrace.’ ‘Not only so,’ rejoined Lonchates; ‘each of us labours under the whole ignominy of the affront.’ ‘And what is to be our course?’ asked Macentes. ‘We will divide the work,’ replied the other. ‘I for my part undertake to present Arsacomas with the head of Leucanor: you must bring him his bride.’ ‘I agree. And you, Arsacomas, can stay at home; and as we are likely to want an army before we have done, you must be getting together horses and arms, and raise what men you can, A man like you will have no difficulty in getting plenty of people to join him, and there are all our relations; besides, you can sit on the ox-hide.’ This being settled, Lonchates set off just as he was for the Bosphorus, and Macentes for Machlyene, each on horseback; while Arsacomas remained behind, consulting with his acquaintance, raising forces from among the relations of the three, and, finally, taking his seat on the ox-hide.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Our custom of the hide is as follows. When a man has been injured by another, and desires vengeance, but feels that he is no match for his opponent, he sacrifices an ox, cuts up the flesh and cooks it, and spreads out the hide upon the ground. On this hide he takes his seat, holding his hands behind him, so as to suggest that his arms are tied in that position, this being the natural attitude of a suppliant among us. Meanwhile, the flesh of the ox has been laid out; and the man’s relations and any others who feel so disposed come up and take a portion thereof, and, setting their right foot on the hide, promise whatever assistance is in their power: one will engage to furnish and maintain five horsemen, another ten, a third some larger number; while others, according to their ability, promise heavy or light-armed infantry, and the poorest, who have nothing else to give, offer their own personal services. The number of persons assembled on the hide is sometimes very considerable; nor could any troops be more reliable or more invincible than those which are collected in this manner, being as they are under a vow; for the act of stepping on to the hide constitutes an oath. By this means, then, Arsacomas raised something like 5,000 cavalry and 20,000 heavy and light armed.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [Arsacomas' friends deliver him the king's head and the bride through various adventures]
            Arsacomas, amazed at so unexpected a sight, was beginning to express his gratitude: but Macentes bade him hold his peace. ‘You speak,’ he exclaimed, ‘as if you and I were different persons, when you thank me for what I have done. It is as if my left hand should say to my right: Thank you for tending my wound; thank you for your generous sympathy with my pain. That would be no more absurd than for us—who have long been united, and have become (so far as such a thing may be) one flesh—to make such ado because one part of us has done its duty by the whole; the limb is but serving its own interest in promoting the welfare of the body.’ And that was how Macentes received his friend’s thanks.

            [They then fight a great army that was sent in revenge but things go badly. Half the Scythians try to retreat, but the other half ends up surrounded]

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But the other and smaller division was completely surrounded by the Alanians and Machlyans, and was being shot down on every side by the copious discharge of arrows and javelins; the position became intolerable, and most of our men were beginning to throw down their arms. In this latter division were Lonchates and Macentes. They had borne the brunt of the attack, and both were wounded: Lonchates had a spear-thrust in his thigh, and Macentes, besides a cut on the head from an axe, had had his shoulder damaged by a pike.
            Arsacomas, seeing their condition, could not endure the thought of turning his back on his friends: plunging the spurs into his horse, and raising a shout, he rode through the midst of the enemy, with his scimetar raised on high. The Machlyans were unable to withstand the fury of his onset; their ranks divided, and made way for him to pass. Having rescued his friends from their danger, he rallied the rest of the troops; and charging upon Adyrmachus brought down the scimetar on his neck, and cleft him in two as far as the waist. Adyrmachus once slain, the whole of the Machlyans and Alanians soon scattered, and the Greeks followed their example. Thus did we turn defeat into victory; and had not night come to interrupt us, we should have pursued the fugitives for a considerable distance, slaying as we went. The next day came messengers from the enemy suing for reconciliation, the Bosphorans undertaking to double their tribute, and the Machlyans to leave hostages; whilst the Alanians promised to expiate their guilt by reducing the Sindians to submission, that tribe having been for some time in revolt against us. These terms we accepted, at the instance of Arsacomas and Lonchates, who conducted the negotiations and concluded the peace.

            Such, Mnesippus, are the deeds that Scythians will do for friendship’s sake.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            One more story: Abauchas once arrived in the capital of the Borysthenians, with his wife, of whom he was extremely fond, and two children; one, a boy, was still at the breast, the other was a girl of seven. With him also was his friend Gyndanes, who was still suffering from the effects of a wound he had received on the journey: they had been attacked by some robbers, and Gyndanes in resisting them had been stabbed in the thigh, and was still unable to stand on account of the pain.
            One night they were all asleep in the upper story, when a tremendous fire broke out; the whole building was wrapped in flames, and every means of exit blocked. Abauchas started up, and leaving his sobbing children, and shaking off his wife, who clung to him and implored him to save her, he caught up his friend in his arms, and just managed to force his way down without being utterly consumed by the flames.
            His wife followed, carrying the boy, and bade the girl come after her; but, scorched almost to a cinder, she was compelled to drop the child from her arms, and barely succeeded in leaping through the flames; the little girl too only just escaped with her life.
            Abauchas was afterwards reproached with having abandoned his own wife and children to rescue Gyndanes. ‘I can beget other children easily enough,’ said he: ‘nor was it certain how these would turn out: but it would be long before I got such another friend as Gyndanes; of his affection I have been abundantly satisfied by experience.’

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [in the end Toxaris and Mnesippus, the Scythian and the Greek, are unable to settle who won the tale contest (they had bet their tongue and their right hand on it), but swear friendship to each other, with a little jab at Scythian customs.]

            Mne. And, Toxaris,—we will dispense with the blood-and- scimetar ceremony. Our present conversation, and the similarity of our aims, are a much better security than that sanguinary cup of yours. Friendship, as I take it, should be voluntary, not compulsory.
            Tox. Well said. From this day, I am your friend, you mine; I your guest here in Greece, you mine if ever you come to Scythia.
            Mne. Scythia! I would go further than Scythia, to meet with such friends as Toxaris’s narratives have shown him to be.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but magically they did not recognize that the "Scythians" were steppe people... even with similar clothing, culture and lifestyle.
            Read these passage and tell me that Herodotus was somehow confused about who is Scythian and who is merely a steppe nomad:

            >Above the mart of the Borysthenites, which is situated in the very centre of the whole sea-coast of Scythia, the first people who inhabit the land are the Callipedae, a Greco-Scythic race. Next to them, as you go inland, dwell the people called the Alazonians. These two nations in other respects resemble the Scythians in their usages, but sow and eat corn, also onions, garlic, lentils, and millet. Beyond the Alazonians reside Scythian cultivators, who grow corn, not for their own use, but for sale. Still higher up are the Neuri. Northwards of the Neuri the continent, as far as it is known to us, is uninhabited. These are the nations along the course of the river Hypanis, west of the Borysthenes.

            >Across the Borysthenes, the first country after you leave the coast is Hylaea (the Woodland). Above this dwell the Scythian Husbandmen, whom the Greeks living near the Hypanis call Borysthenites, while they call themselves Olbiopolites. These Husbandmen extend eastward a distance of three days' journey to a river bearing the name of Panticapes, while northward the country is theirs for eleven days' sail up the course of the Borysthenes. Further inland there is a vast tract which is uninhabited. Above this desolate region dwell the Cannibals [Anthropophagi], who are a people apart, much unlike the Scythians. Above them the country becomes an utter desert; not a single tribe, so far as we know, inhabits it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Crossing the Panticapes, and proceeding eastward of the Husbandmen, we come upon the wandering Scythians, who neither plough nor sow. Their country, and the whole of this region, except Hylaea, is quite bare of trees.

            On the opposite side of the Gerrhus is the Royal district, as it is called: here dwells the largest and bravest of the Scythian tribes, which looks upon all the other tribes in the light of slaves. Its country reaches on the south to Taurica, on the east to the trench dug by the sons of the blind slaves, the mart upon the Palus Maeotis, called Cremni (the Cliffs), and in part to the river Tanais. North of the country of the Royal Scythians are the Melanchaeni (Black-Robes), a people of quite a different race from the Scythians.

            >When one crosses the Tanais, one is no longer in Scythia; the first region on crossing is that of the Sauromatae[...] Beyond these people, a little to the east, dwells a distinct tribe of Scyths, who revolted once from the Royal Scythians, and migrated into these parts.
            >Passing over a great extent of this rough country, you come to a people dwelling at the foot of lofty mountains, who are said to be all- both men and women- bald from their birth, to have flat noses, and very long chins. These people speak a language of their own, the dress which they wear is the same as the Scythian. [...] No one harms these people, for they are looked upon as sacred- they do not even possess any warlike weapons. [...]They are called the Argippaeans.

            >Up to this point the territory of which we are speaking is very completely explored, and all the nations between the coast and the bald-headed men are well known to us. For some of the Scythians are accustomed to penetrate as far, of whom inquiry may easily be made [...] The Scythians who make this journey communicate with the inhabitants by means of seven interpreters and seven languages.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Do you really think it was hatred for blonde hair
            Philomon literally said "blonde hair is a mark of stupidity."

            >Including the Scythians.
            It's incredible how you read a text expressly saying "with the one exception of the Scythians", and still delude yourself into thinking "this obviously included the Scythians."

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the text literally calls them barbarians.
            and use individual exception

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            there isn't even a quote hahaha
            and the reports are wrong about his appearance hahaha
            they were mostly dark

            the text literally calls them barbarians.
            and use individual exception

            You lost again haha

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you drunk?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cope
            The Scythians were mainly dark features

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Scythians are routinely described as fair-skinned, red, blonde or auburn haired, and as having green or blue eyes.
            Granted, this is by the standards of Mediterranean writers, and these traits may not have been all that common among them, just enough to be notable, but meds universally recognized the Scythians as being fairer than them on average.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Scythians are routinely described as fair-skinned, red, blonde or auburn haired, and as having green or blue eyes.
            That's not what the SNP say.
            genetics show that they were mainly dark-haired.
            everything summed up and exaggerated is something rare among the Mediterranean. And what is "cite"? are we talking about Hungarian Scythians? or the Scythians from central Asia with high bmac blood who some cluster with non-European peoples? or are we talking about the hapas? "Scythian" was never an ethno-linguistic group. It is very variable
            >but meds universally recognized the Scythians as being fairer than them on average.
            Yes, your sources are wrong.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Scythian sorry
            I m spanishard and we call them "citas"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your timeline is off, Hapa scythians aka Turks are a new breed of race

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No.
            >Genomic inference reveals that Scythians in the east and the west of the steppe zone can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and an East Asian component.
            Check the sakas haha even before the Turks.
            They always was been mixed dude

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Although Proto-Indo-Europeans have been often cast as warlike conquerors, their reconstructed arsenal is not
            particularly extensive.
            Wow, thank you so much
            Yes. we know it is false that they were conquering warriors. no evidence like much of the theory

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This

            What do you mean by "take seriously?" Everybody understands it's just a hypothetical model. I think perhaps it is you, OP, who are taking it too seriously

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The poet-singer was the society's highest-paid professional,
            >source?
            >it was revealed to me in a dream

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's attested by the recorded rewards and status of the poet in Irish, Greek or Vedic cultures.
            (see Indo-European Poetry, M. L. West, a 540 pages book, which dedicates its first portion to the poet's occupation in itself)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ok poem anon

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This does not prove that it is "PIE".
            you proved that some IE people used "poetry" (an anachronistic term depending on the place).
            His argument is summarized in:
            "people x and people y like music, so it's certainly likely that their ridiculously distant Neolithic ancestors did too"
            That's a weak argument.
            It's a very dangerous argument, as it depends a lot on temporal issues and doesn't take into account how people change quickly and create new lifestyles without even knowing about their "ancestor".
            Have you seen the Celtic deities? at least 1/3 doesn't look like "ie", but looks like something much more national and organic. wootan is almost like an animistic creation

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This
            Germanic is very recent, it was spoken in the Iron Age, it didn't exist before that

            What?

            his conclusion, not mine

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I beg of you, please read that book (and its sources) instead of wasting your time grappling with your own ignorance. You apparently can't even imagine the work that has been put into researching this.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This isn't a good argument

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not an argument, you dunce.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Stop this text spam, Brazilian, post the shitty PDF. no one will read
            besides, my argument makes sense.
            You didn't even realize that you showed how flawed the theory is with your statements.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >post the PDF
            I gave you the name of the book and the author and even told you where to find it, do I also need to type it into the search bar for you?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >can't even read a book
            >wants to have "arguments"
            NGMI

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What book?
            Ps: i m not this fool

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Useless farmtroony babble

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What's the Lithuanian-Sanskrit Sprachbunde?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It got submerged with Atlantis during intercontinental antimatter armageddon of the Finno-Korean Hyperwar.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Dis homie knows da lore

            >We know nothing
            You could literally just read the Wikipedia article on Proto-IE society or religion and save yourself the embarrassment.

            >You coulda read a bunch of lies so you could be an Aspartame-fuelled bluepilled Bas'dkuk
            Nice try, CIgay

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            this is my first post in this thread so i'm not any of those anons, but why does every third person on this website act like an edgy basement dweller? do any of you go out in public and talk with people who might beat your ass for talking without respect? it seems like all of your interactions must be through the safety and anonymity of the internet

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >without respect?
            that's the problem, idiots treat challenging their headcanon as a threat to their persona, rather than an inspection of facts. Muslims are prime examples of this kind of inbred moronation.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            PIE fled the sinking of Othaland of the north sea.
            The capitol of the doggerbank was a salt-mining/wildlife hunting base of the much older Odaland/Asgard/Aztlan cross-atlantic mound-fishing cultures.
            The shellfish mounds of northeastern americas could potentially house remnants of north sea salt deposits.
            there, i gave a concrete thing to look for. some archeologist take me up on it, and be shocked.
            (ps, make sure to actually test mounds old enough, ca 8000bc and before should be when this specific salt mine was active other) other than salt, ivory from north sea walrusses or repurposed mammoth remains (of the north sea as opposed to americas) should also be of note.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OP there are these things called linguistics, archealogy, genetics, and religious studies. And they all point towards the existence of this culture

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >OP there are these things called schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder, confirmation bias, and ethno-chauvinism
      ftfy

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Take your meds.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    where should I get started with Conan, OP? Tried Sword of the Phoenix but him already having seized the throne felt like I was missing something

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >? It's literally just Conan the Barbarian minus the action.
    You know Conan was loosely based on historical research.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What do you mean by "take seriously?" Everybody understands it's just a hypothetical model. I think perhaps it is you, OP, who are taking it too seriously

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Posting in an ebin Indian inferiority complex thread

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dilate.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why does comparative linguistics cause so much seethe in brainlets?

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Individuals from the eastern part of Ukraine, archaeologically associated with the “local elite”, have more Southeastern European influences (Near Eastern ancestry) in their genome (including Y hg E1b), when compared to “local agriculturalists''. Most of “nomad elite” individuals (Siversky Donets basin) have a genetic profile similar to that of people from the Caucasus.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scythian era kurgan. He was probably a Thracian.

      >The artefacts included an iron sword with a golden scabbard, two spears with iron pointed tips and iron shafts. To the northwest of the head of the skeleton there were the remains of a quiver with arrows that had bronze sleeve tips. A total of 57 bronze arrowheads and 5 of their fragments were found. Also, an iron knife, lekythos, Greek ceramic jugs were found in the burial. Chronology according to archaeology: end of 5th until beginning of 4th c. BCE.
      E1b1b male with Greek/Balkan ancestry.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scythian era kurgan. He was probably a Thracian.

      >The artefacts included an iron sword with a golden scabbard, two spears with iron pointed tips and iron shafts. To the northwest of the head of the skeleton there were the remains of a quiver with arrows that had bronze sleeve tips. A total of 57 bronze arrowheads and 5 of their fragments were found. Also, an iron knife, lekythos, Greek ceramic jugs were found in the burial. Chronology according to archaeology: end of 5th until beginning of 4th c. BCE.
      E1b1b male with Greek/Balkan ancestry.

      >Scythians are routinely described as fair-skinned, red, blonde or auburn haired, and as having green or blue eyes.
      That's not what the SNP say.
      genetics show that they were mainly dark-haired.
      everything summed up and exaggerated is something rare among the Mediterranean. And what is "cite"? are we talking about Hungarian Scythians? or the Scythians from central Asia with high bmac blood who some cluster with non-European peoples? or are we talking about the hapas? "Scythian" was never an ethno-linguistic group. It is very variable
      >but meds universally recognized the Scythians as being fairer than them on average.
      Yes, your sources are wrong.

      >coping browncels retreats to haplotism
      Many such cases.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's just how it is. Most Scythian elites were South European or Caucasian.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You lost

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >daily brown cope thread
    Southern Arc has been debunked as brown cope. Its been proven that nordic looking peoples on horses conquered eurasia. Accept your dalit status now

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fanfic

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    anyone with any understanding of linguistic drift will know there's way too many coincidences across PIE languages to simply dismiss.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lucian has another dialogue between Scythian and Greek by the way, featuring (who else?) Anacharsis and Solon of Athens.
    Solon arrogantly explains traditional Greek customs, defending them with the usual contrived and specious explanations.
    And Anacharsis is the archetypal Noble Savage looking at Greek society with fresh eyes and laughing at the absurdity of the customs and their justifications, in short the author's mouthpiece.
    On the subject of Spartans whipping their young men to toughen them up:

    Solon: Seeing these things, never take them for madmen, nor say that, since it is neither a tyrant’s bidding nor a conqueror’s ordinance, they victimize themselves for no good reason. Lycurgus their lawgiver would have many reasonable remarks to make to you on the subject; he was not wasting the state’s young blood for nothing; he only thought it proper that defenders of their country should have endurance in the highest degree and be entirely superior to fear.

    An. Solon, did Lycurgus take his whippings at the fighting age, or did he make these spirited regulations on the safe basis of superannuation?

    So. It was in his old age, after returning from Crete, that he legislated. He had been attracted to Crete by hearing that their laws were the best possible, devised by Minos, son of Zeus.

    An. Well, and why did you not copy Lycurgus and whip your young men? It is a fine institution quite worthy of yourselves.

    So. Oh, we were content with our native exercises; we are not much given to imitating other nations.

    An. No, no; you realize what a thing it is to be stripped and scourged with one’s hands up, without benefit to oneself or one’s country. If I do happen to be at Sparta when this performance is on, I shall expect a public stoning at their hands for laughing at it all, when I see them being whipped like robbers or thieves or such malefactors. Really, I think a state that submits to such ridiculous treatment at its own hands wants a dose of hellebore [meds].

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The blonde european scythians be like

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