How do Shias go from claiming that Ali is the rightful successor to Mohammad to believing that Ali is actually god

How do Shias go from claiming that Ali is the rightful successor to Mohammad to believing that Ali is actually god

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We do not believe that Ali (AS) is God. Only alawites hold to this.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I thought Druze also believe that Ali is god and the mahdi

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I dont know much about them but they are not shiite

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Druzes believe a random caliph(who persecuted them) is God

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Are alawites Muslims or a separate religion

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        In my view no. I am a shia revert btw

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        In the way Mormons are Christians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Then why do you supplicate to him by saying Ya Ali

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The only real muslim are the shia everyone else is kuffar. I respect the Christians more than the sunni sect. Laanatilalhi asiah, abu bakar and omar

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I respect idolaters and pagans over monotheists
      that explains a lot

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Imam ali kept many Christians companions who took part in the battle of karbala. No Christian ever bombed a shia mosque but the sunnis have. They also side with those who hate the athulbait

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Christians absolutely hate the Prophet and his message. Even Ali hasn't escaped this, though admittedly to a lesser degree but still significant.
          >No Christian ever bombed
          lmao, I suggest you read verses 3:100-105

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The sunnis are the secterians who are mentioned. Shiites kept islam pure

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Everyone thinks their group is pure and that the other started it. Now the question is are you going to listen to God and drop this nonsense?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Christians absolutely hate the Prophet
            Maybe Because he's a scumbag? What Prophet of God steals his son-in-law's wife and fricks kids for fun? You Muslims are moronic

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > What Prophet of God steals his son-in-law's wife and fricks kids for fun?
            What?
            Who got fricked and what relation did they have to the prophet

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >son-in-law's wife
            Your son-in-law's wife is your daughter you fool

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not if you have multiple wives.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Did Muhammad cuck ali?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ali is his cousin, moron
            He did not

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I was thinking about becoming a Zaydi but they're going extinct due to Twelver influence

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >but they're going extinct due to Twelver influence
      They were reduced to yemen by the 10th century. Twelvers were always the largest sect

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ismailis were the largest sect in the 11th century.
        12ers only became dominant after the Ismaili state fell.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Ismailis were the largest sect in the 11th century.
          >12ers only became dominant after the Ismaili state fell.
          Wrong. Twelvers dominated the alborz region and south of that had many cities with a twelver majority. Southern Iraq was also the domain of the twelvers. When Al Mamun adopted the temporary measure of placating the shia he made the twelver imam his heir suggesting that they were already the largest. The Ismailis controlled some forts and castles and their surroundings in Iran. And had recruits scattered across the rest of Iran. They were never large enough to attempt to form an actual state. They were reliant on their dai'is to gain followers for them and they targeting regions where islam did not penetrate far like among the pamiris, gilgit-baltistan, india, etc which are the regions in modern times with the most ismailis. In Egypt they empowered the christians to counter the sunnis. And medieval Sunni chroniclers whined about the "rafezis" which is a term for Twelvers and rarely used to describe other shia groups who had their own descriptors.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The fatimids were ismailis.
            >Isma'ilism rose at one point to become the largest branch of Shia Islam, climaxing as a political power with the Fatimid Caliphate in the 10th through 12th centuries.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I mentioned the case of egypt. The ismailis were a ruling minority who balanced their empire by empowering christians. Ismailis never suceeded in changing the situation in iraq and iran which continued to be dominated by the twelver sect. Their main expansions were in Yemen, Central asia, and india. So to reiterate Twelvers were always the largest sect. The ismailis had a wide geopraphic range but had very few concentrated populations. They would even lose most of their territory and influence in the 12th century. And again when sunni chroniclers and ulama complained about shias they would write about rafezis (twelvers) most of the time. Polemics against the twelve imams were also common.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >So to reiterate Twelvers were always the largest sect.
            You haven't established that.
            >They were never large enough to attempt to form an actual state.
            Is idotic. And I don't know what your point about sunni polemics is but there were heavy anti ismaili polemics both by the abbasids and during Saladdin's rule.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You haven't established that
            I clearly have

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe because Ali is God? Did you ever consider that?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do Twelver Shias realize they are following a separate religion? I would respect them more if they just stopped attributing themselves to Islam. Nobody except Daniel Haqiqatjou believes you are Muslim anyway from among the Sunnis. Muslims are not allowed to eat your sacrifices and we are not allowed to pray behind you. Just go and attach yourself to Zoroastrians or something and be happy.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Do sunnis realise they are following a separate religion? They follow a prostitute aisha (la) and a homosexual omar (la). Also what Daniel thinks is completely irrelevant to being Muslim. A Muslim submits to Allah (swt) and follows the sunnah of the prophet muhhamad (saw) and accepting imam Ali (AS) as their leader

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >1.6 billion people the world over are wrong
        >all converts are wrong
        >the tiny cult of less than 1m ppl operated by Persian nationalist majoosis in a tiny irrelevant portion of the world are the right ones, they are the ones following "true Islam"

        Yeah sure thing, Reza

        You kill the people of Islam. You venerate graves. You call on other than Allah. You go against the Qu'ran and say the Qu'ran was wrong (Allah absolved all sahabas of wrongdoing in Qu'ran). You are not Muslim

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >>1.6 billion people the world over are wrong
          >>all converts are wrong
          Obviously. Does your inbred iq not allow you to realize you're making a claim with that same logic against christians?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Obviously. Does your inbred iq not allow you to realize you're making a claim with that same logic against christians?

            All those Christians are following what they believe (wrongly) Jesus to have been upon. Just as the israelites today are following what they believed Moses brought. Obviously from an Islamic perspective we believe both are mistaken, but they are however attributing what they follow to 2 of the most influential men ever in history and what they believe the scripture given to them came with. Are you seriously comparing this to your obscure cult started by some literal who israelite (Abdullah Ibn Saba) and which functions today primarily to spread crypto-majoosi beliefs and Persian supremacism around the Middle East? What you are upon has nothing to do with "Abrahamic tradition" and has nothing to do with Allah. The Christians and israelites however mistaken can at least claim that they are basing what they believe in revelation and scripture, no matter how much we disagree with them. What you are bringing has nothing to do with any of it and fits more in line with your hidden Zoroastrianism sympathies. You are not a semite and you have no share in Islam. Revert to Islam.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They have bigger numbers than you therefore they are correct. Your logic not mine

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >1.6 billion people the world over are wrong
          Convert to christianity. It has over 2 billion

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >1.6 billion people the world over are wrong
          yes
          >all converts are wrong
          yes
          >the tiny cult of less than 1m ppl operated by Persian nationalist majoosis in a tiny irrelevant portion of the world are the right ones
          no, they are also wrong.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Your iq is below average. More numbers does not mean true. More christians than sunni therefore christianity is true. At one point a lot of people believed the earth to be flat but that has no effect on the shape of the earth yet I know that many of you salafis hold to a flat earth still.
          >You kill the people of Islam
          All terrorist are sunni
          >You venerate grave
          Do you not say salam to rasulullah at his grave?
          >You call on other than Allah
          We workship Allah alone but we see no issue with intercessors
          >You go against the Qu'ran and say the Qu'ran was wrong
          The Qu'ran can only be understood through the imans and we love the sahabas we just dont accept some of the companions you call sahaba.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >we love the sahabas we just dont accept some of the companions you call sahaba.

            Taqiyya. You believe all apostated except a few. How can people who claim to love Islam curse those who spread Islam far and wide? Who spread Islam from China to Morocco? It was the sahabas you guys curse and revile. And we know you hate Umar because he put an end to Khosrow's shirki empire. What have the Shia ever done for Islam? did they ever spread Islam to any land? All they do is fight against Muslims and side with the enemies of Islam. (Shia even helped America in Afghanistan!) and Iran took weapons from Israel to slaughter Iraqis and fight Saddam. You are fooling no one anymore. We are aware of your hatred for Islam and that's why many Sunni's see you as bigger enemies than even the Zionists

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ofc we hate umar (la) I wasn't hiding it. How your sunni sect spread is completely irrelevant to truth. We workship one God without any limitations, you workship a god with 2 right hands and a foor. I do not workship what you do.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This but unironically https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/march/lokman-slim-lebanon-shiite-christian-funeral-hezbollah.html

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            https://hormozshariat.com/2017/12/08/shiite-christianity/

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Looking at it historically, using sunni sources, Shias are absolutely correct that Ali was the true successor to the Prophet. You have Umar himself in Sunni sources saying that Abu Bakr's succession was a mistake. What sunnis did to the Prophet's family is a tragedy

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        How did abu bakr end up winning over ali

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Ali and the rest of the Prophet's family were busy handling the Prophet's burial and funeral arrangements. Abu Bakr, Umar, and a few other men gathered among themselves in a meeting in which almost none of the prominent muslims were present, and decided amongst themselves that Abu Bakr should be the successor. Sunni and Shia sources agree on this.

          Sunni and Shia sources also agree that Ali did not approve, and he refused to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr for months afterwards. Sunni and Shia sources only disagree about why he changed his mind. Shias say he came under pressure to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr. Sunnis say that even though he felt so strongly about it that he refused to pledge allegiance for several months, he suddenly changed his mind and embraced Abu Bakr wholeheartedly.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            But why did Sunnis end up as the majority
            Was there some tribal politics involved
            What reasons did the majority of people have to support abu bakr over ali

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There was a lot of tribal politics involved. Many people whom sunnis love but shias dislike, such as Abu Sufyan, Muawiya and others, were very late converts to Islam. Abu Sufyan in particular was one of the biggest opponents of Islam before his conversion. These people converted only when the muslims captured Mecca. This means that until that day, they fought in most of the battles against the Muslims, and since Ali was such a powerful warrior, he killed many of their family members on the battlefield. So there were grudges against Muhammad's clan, Banu Hashim, and specifically against Ali himself. Banu Hashim was also a very powerful and noble clan even before Muhammad's prophethood. For both the prophethood and caliphate to be vested in one clan would make Banu Hashim preeminent over all others, and thus the other clans, especially Banu Umayya, which later killed most of the Prophet's family, benefitted a lot by keeping them out of power.

            While Banu Hashim was preoccupied with the Prophet's burial, Abu Bakr took the initiative and many people pledged their allegiance in order to maintain unity. Others might have been pressured, considering that there were powerful people behind Abu Bakr. Many prominent Muslims however, refused, and Ali only consented months later.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Again, you've taken a political issue and conflated it with religion. The Prophet (PBUH) did not name a successor because he did not want to start a chain of dynastic rulers, which is the very thing he destroyed. This does not give Shias permission to slander His (pbuh) wives and companions

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Again, you've taken a political issue and conflated it with religion
          Muslims don't have separation of church and state.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >This does not give Shias permission to slander His (pbuh) wives and companions
          lmao. Sunni theology is not questioning any of the early events of islam and that to let Allah decide. It's a joke.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What do you mean again? That was my first post in the thread. Also, the succession issue is at the heart of the dispute between Sunnis and Shias, so I'm not sure why you're making a distinction here. Lastly, Sunnis and shias agree that the Prophet said in front of thousands of people that whoever takes the Prophet as his mawla, Ali is his mawla. Sunnis just translate mawla as friend, as if nobody knew that already

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Sunni allah is a joke

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What do wahabis think of allah
      Isn’t it the same as israelites

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They reject Christ and walk in darkness

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's very little difference in how sunnis view muhammad and shias view Ali

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How the Prophet viewed Ali, according to Sunni sources:
      >You are to me what Aaron was to Moses
      >I am the house of wisdom, and Ali is the gate
      >Made an announcement about the virtues of the flag bearer at Khaybar, then handed Ali the flag, and everyone remembered Ali for that
      >On his last ever pilgrimage said to everyone: If I am a person's mawla, Ali is his mawla

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Are you dumb? My point was that all muslims worship a man. Whoever that man is irrelevant

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >How do Shias go from claiming that Ali is the rightful successor to Mohammad to believing that Ali is actually god
    Influence of Gnosticism and Iranian folk messianism.
    Twelver Shiism was deliberately purged of a lot of the more wacky and literally paganistic accretions by later scholars in an attempt to make it look respectable to Sunnis.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Twelver Shiism was deliberately purged of a lot of the more wacky and literally paganistic accretions by later scholars in an attempt to make it look respectable to Sunnis.
      t. knows nothing of what twelvers actually believe

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Sunnis
    >everything is made of Muhammad
    >Shia
    >Everything is Made of Ali
    The first and foremost to representatively stand to the concept of nūr muḥammadī (the essence of Muhammad) being the quintessence of everything was Sayyid Abdul Qadir Gilani, who described this idea in his book Sirr ul Asrar.[2] This concept was then preached by his disciples. One of Sayyid Abdul Qadir Gilani's disciples was the Andalusian scholar Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi, who categorized nūr into different levels of understanding from the most profound to the most mundane.[citation needed] Shias believe nūr, in the sense of inner esoteric understanding, is inherited through the Imams, who in turn communicate it to the people

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >In Islamic theology, Quranic createdness is the doctrinal position that the Quran was created, rather than having always existed and thus being "uncreated".

    >One of the main areas of debate in Islamic theology was about God's attribute of kalam (lit. word, speech) revealing itself through wahy and it was a counterpart reflection of the logos) in greek philosophy meaning 'aql or reason.[1] If the logos was accepted as part of "God's essence" or nature (then the Kalam was one of God's attributes), it was out of the question for it to be created. On the other hand, the word consists of human-made Arabic letters and words, and it was out of the question for these to be eternal.[2]

    >The dispute over which was true became a significant point of contention in early Islam. The Islamic rationalist philosophical school known as the Mu'tazilites held that if the Quran is God's word, logically God "must have preceded his own speech".[3] The Mu'tazilites and the Jahmites negated all attributes of God, thus believed that God could not speak, hence the Quran was not the literal word of God, but instead a complete metaphor of his will.[4] In the Muslim world, the opposite point of view — that the Quran is uncreated — is the accepted stance among the majority Muslims
    Imagine worshipping a fricking book. Why do mudslimes claim to be monotheists?

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    He has a speech where he said he is the first the last and the omniscient, but those who worship Ali also worship Mohammed so i never understood the obsessive focus on Ali

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