How do you answer this problem?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You bomb the ship from existence and continue on your path

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Cope.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Cope, the ship does not matter actually see

        It doesn't matter

        (spbp)

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It doesn't matter

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If there are only Black folk and israelites on the ship, then the ship is dog food
    If there are white people on the ship then idk maybe a ship
    If there are ONLY white people on the ship, then it its a fricking GALLEY SHIP FRIGATE CRUISER BATTLESHIP

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It depends whether the "ship" is more important or "of Theseus". Its the idea vs the material components.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if all of the molecules of Theseus's body are replaced and repaired? Is Theseus still Theseus?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If all the molecules of his body get replaced with black molecules then he becomes Niggeus.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why does it matter whether it's the same ship or not?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I have a master's in philosophy (bachelors in something useful, CS) and I am actually impressed by the answers here. Most are very useful, particularly

      It depends whether the "ship" is more important or "of Theseus". Its the idea vs the material components.

      The ship is a construct of the mind. Whatever you think is the ship, is the ship.

      If everyone agrees that it's still the original ship of Theseus, then it is. The answer is whatever a critical mass of the public believes in.

      To cite the core of those that impressed me.

      If you study a lot of philosophy, you kinda become disillusioned by it. While I wouldn't say the impression a lot of non-philosophers have that most or a lot of it is just linguistic word games, the charge it's something almost as bad -- i.e. discussions about something that ultimately does not matter -- still applies.

      My own stance about the Ship of Theseus thought experiment is this: it matters if it can be made to matter, and otherwise it does not matter, it's just an empty discussion. For example, it would matter within the legal domain if you discussed if some entity that has completely changed all of its subparts still counts as the original entity (to which some older ruling was applied to 80 years ago).
      Then, whatever was the outcome of that discussion (i.e. determining "it's the same" or "it's not the same") is indeed the solution to the Theseus thought experiment restricted to that specific case.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Everytime you replace a plank or even change a single thing about it no matter how minor it's less the same ship as before, it only looks like it and we use shortcuts and arbitrary assumptions by saying it's the same ship.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Try the following:
    >buy a bottle of beer from the grocery store
    >now take a crate of the same beer from the grocery store without paying
    >replace one bottle in the crate with the one you purchased earlier
    >argue with management that since you replaced a bottle, you didn't rob that create
    If the israeli pilpul fallacy truism works, you will profit

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes it remains the same ship until a plank has been replaced, that plank is no longer original and thus the ship has been reduced, it is not fully reduced until the entire ship has been replaced plank by plank.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's a different crate, see

      Try the following:
      >buy a bottle of beer from the grocery store
      >now take a crate of the same beer from the grocery store without paying
      >replace one bottle in the crate with the one you purchased earlier
      >argue with management that since you replaced a bottle, you didn't rob that create
      If the israeli pilpul fallacy truism works, you will profit

      What if all of the molecules of Theseus's body are replaced and repaired? Is Theseus still Theseus?

      Cope, the ship does not matter actually see [...]
      (spbp)

      It depends whether the "ship" is more important or "of Theseus". Its the idea vs the material components.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Easy, the keel timber is the heart of a ship.
    Philosophers should leave their little echochambers with questions they pretend are unanswerable and pick up a craft or hobby instead.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you get a heart replacement, are you now a different person?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No because a heart is not to a person what a keel is to a ship

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What if you removed everything but the keel? Is it still the same ship? If you divide the keel in half, are there now two ships?

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Basically every cell in your body is replaced eventually, but you're not freed from your previous body's debts, responsibilities, etc.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The ship is a construct of the mind. Whatever you think is the ship, is the ship.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're an idiot.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's not what your mom said.

        What if I identify as the ship? Am I now the ship?

        Don't see why you would, but as far as you're concerned, I suppose so.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if I identify as the ship? Am I now the ship?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      OK Plato

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This

      What if I identify as the ship? Am I now the ship?

      No cuz the world of ideas is God-given and your identity as a human is entrenched in the idea world reality of God.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >is it the same ship?
    no
    >how similar is it to the original ship?
    case-by-case basis.
    the more time goes on, the greater opportunity for mutation

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you replace one nail holding the wood on the ship together, is it still the same ship?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yes.
        but if you replace EVERYTHING about the ship, it's not.
        it's a replica at that point.
        granted it's phrased as
        >what if all of x type of constituent part is replaced?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What if I replace all the boards of the ship except one, and use the old boards to rebuild the ship minus one board? Are they both the original ship? Or are they two new ships?

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    think of a wizard posessing an anon's body. the wizard does not have his original physical body any longer, but he still knows he's himself, so he's still himself. however, the anon is no longer himself
    and so, this ship, even if you changed all of its planks, it would still be the same ship

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Theseus. That's the answer. You could have just said Theseus. That's the right answer by the way.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It depends on what you consider the "Shit of Theseus" to be.
    It's the Theseus ownership? It's the unique design? It's the unique materials?
    It's a matter of subjectivity.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      *Ship of Theseus.
      But it was a good typo

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If everyone agrees that it's still the original ship of Theseus, then it is. The answer is whatever a critical mass of the public believes in.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if 50% of people disagree? Wouldn't you need to poll each and every person on a continual basis to find out that information?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The ship is in a state of flux, where one day it is the original, and the next it's not, because the pollsters are bad at polling.
        It's 100% not based on the fallacy of large numbers.
        It's the same ship, and only autists have a problem with that. A ship's materials isn't important. It's not like a personality, which can drastically change after a certain type of interaction, and can result in a drastically different type of personality from it.
        The licensing your boats, or houses, or anything, would be an absolute nightmare, if it became a brand new "thing" with even the slightest of changes.
        The moment 1 atom was removed from the original ship, it would become a different ship? No, that's nonsense. It's the same ship, until it's destroyed/decommissioned/etc.
        Otherwise what this anon said(

        What if I replace all the boards of the ship except one, and use the old boards to rebuild the ship minus one board? Are they both the original ship? Or are they two new ships?

        ) would cause all sorts of chaos. Donating your kidney, would gain you control over another person. Or clipping your fingernails would free you of your student loans.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >The ship is in a state of flux, where one day it is the original, and the next it's not, because the pollsters are bad at polling.
          That was me replying to the polling question. That wasn't clear enough.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >What if 50% of people disagree? Wouldn't you need to poll each and every person on a continual basis to find out that information?
        What if instead the true answer is what the owner of the ship museum/the country which uses the lauded warship as propaganda wants the public to believe? I have US banknotes in my pocket. They're just slips of cloth with the faces of long dead American statesmen and Arabic runes printed on them. They have little intrinsic value, but society is conditioned to believe that they are worth exchanging goods and services for. If the ship is held in great regard by the people to which it is an icon, then it doesn't matter if it has no original parts, the people will still believe that it's the real ship. It is possible to have little division in public opinion unless people have a reason to disagree with the commonly held idea.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Soul.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Do ships have souls?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Everything has a remnant when a being with a soul believes in its concept.

  17. 1 month ago
    Radiochan

    sure why not

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's the same ship model, but not the same ship. Just like how there are over 15 million Ford Model Ts. They were all the same car model, but different individual cars. The Ship of Theseus Paradox was pennned before anyone had any concept of mass production, and so the very idea of two different vehicles of the same model was simply unheard of. It's far less of a paradox in this context.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I don't think a bunch of literal copy+paste's in an image is representative of an actual Greek Galley fleet though

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The Ship of Theseus Paradox was pennned before anyone had any concept of mass production
      Man, stop and think for a second before making such dumbass post

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Ship never existed to begin with. Whatever ship Theseus claims as his own, becomes the Ship of Theseus.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is it the same design? If it is, yes, it's the same ship.

    It's not the same design? Then no, it's the Ship of Theseus® V2.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Let's make it more interesting

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It’s the same ship even if every part of it is replaced if it happens gradually throughout the life of the ship, just as cells degrade and get replaced in human bodies. Nobody even thinks the same problem about human bodies because we link human existence to consciousness, but with non-conscious things, we have to rely on more abstract ideas of continuity. Of course, tou can always make edge cases about what constitutes as ”gradual”.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Your statement is unfortunately false and valueless (i.e. vacuous, this isn't slang for "I disagree"). Neural cells never get replaced. They are molecularly the exact same as the one that grew when you were still a fetus. This isn't true for all cells in the body, but it is true for neurons. Since neurons are the things that give you consciousness, this non-mutation can't be discounted as a salient fact.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Objectively no but practically yes

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    All the cells in your body replenish or renew themselves once every 6/10 years. But you are still you because the concept of you is still the same, right? Why should it be any different for a ship?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Assuming "you" are a specific pattern of brain activity that changes over time and the brain matter is just conductors for your existance, then no, "you" are the same pattern, no matter of your body. Meanwhile a ship has no such driving structure, thus it is only ever a sum of its parts.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on the observer. A senile grampa Thesius received a refurbashing of his rotten ship as a gift and happily sailed one last voyage thinking "just like old times". A nitpicker snob Thesius whines non-stop about how "its not the same" ever since he broke the steering wheel and had it replaced.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It will not be the same ship materially as it was historically but due to continuity it will still be the Ship of thesueus

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Unless majority opinion will be that its NOT the same ship. See the problem? You are just projecting your perception on if it will be the same ship on the perception of others. Granted, its reasonable that the majority will think the same because its stupid to assume that repairs invalodate what an object is. But really, ship of Thesius only ever existed as a title in the minds of those who knew about it and it is their view on the titles legitimacy that determines it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you cant rebuild that parmesan temple in athens and call it the same thing

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yes you can if you gaslight people enough about it being 100% accurate reconstruction using certified ancient methods.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it is true if I control the narrative
            Ah yes. War is peace and the other 1984 slogans. moron.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >that parmesan temple
          The what now?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            very good post

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're an idiot.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Does the builder of the ship change?
    If it's of the same design and name given by the builder then it's the same ship.

    I have changed countless times over in my lifetime.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No it is still the same ship you moron.

    Here is a better example to put it into perspective.
    You own a car. Your car gets a flat tire. You replace the tire. Do you have a new car? No.
    A year goes by and your head gasget blows. You fix it. Do you have a new car? No.
    Repeat ad nauseum over the course of 10 years and eventually you replace every single piece on your car has been replaced.
    Do you have a new car? Does insurance say you have a new car? Does Kelly Bluebook say your car is worth exactly the same as when you bought it? No. No. And no.
    So no you do not have a new car just because you replace parts on it and insurance damn well won't pay you the exact price you paid for it if you get in an accident.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Okay but what of you have a big box that has all the parts that could be assembled to your model of a car and you replaced all your car parts with those over one weekend of tinkering? You are removing the absurdist extreme part from this silly question by only considering a reasonable real-world scenario. In the end, there is no paradox - just you who has to answer for themselves if its enough for it to be considered as not the same thing or not, because ultimately its all just social and personal perception of the originality that matters.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You are removing the absurdist extreme part from this shitty question by only considering a reasonable real-world scenario
        Yes. How dare I use reason and logic to apply an answer to a question based in reality. moron.

        If a question has no answer applicable to our lives it is irrelevant and a waste of time.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    such a question holds for Greece itself. Is an ancient greek represented in the contemporary?

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Language doesn’t have power over real objects. Language is used to break down reality into easily understandable, distinct chunk to better think and talk about them.
    So the Ship of Theseus is the one, whose planks has been replaced over time. Because that is what people would recognize and understand as his ship. And it would also still be his ship in a legal sense and in a practical real sense. He occupies it. His crew operates it.

    The second ship they built would only be considered another ship of Theseus if its construction was ritualized. Like how you melt down an artifact of significance, like an old crown and use its metal in the construction of a new crown. This continuity is symbolically important in a religious and ritualistic sense. If you explicitly intend to that with the old planks of theseus ship, then it‘s his second ship, a continuation of the first. Or the only ship of theseus, if the first one is destroyed.

    But yeah. Sorry Gnostics, there is no such thing as a language based on pure rationality. A chair doesn’t need a perfect definition to be a useful concept.

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It just depends on how you define "same."

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Does it still perform the role of ship for Theseus?

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