How related were the Etruscans to the Iberians and Basques?

How related were the Etruscans to the Iberians and Basques? Why does the Etruscan aristocracy cluster so close to present-day Iberians? They must have had a common origin.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    OG etruscans were lydian, those are assimilated italics

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nonsense and Italics proper generally cluster inbetween modern Spaniards and north Italians (see the Roman IA samples we have.) Those guys on OP's pic may as well be your average Catalan dude.
      Many of Coon observations are outdated, the Etruscans were not Anatolians and if by chance they were they were not like them in race.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Most Etruscan samples are assimilated Italics and that's not surprising. All historians claimed that Etruscans came from Anatolia, they could hardly be mistaken. Just as they were not mistaken when said that original Sicani were from Iberia and we found R-Df27 among them.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The big redpill here is that they indeed came from anatolians, the original ones. Ancient knowledge of a ANF Language remembered.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Most Etruscan samples are assimilated Italics and that's not surprising. All historians claimed that Etruscans came from Anatolia, they could hardly be mistaken. Just as they were not mistaken when said that original Sicani were from Iberia and we found R-Df27 among them.

            That doesn't refute my point thoughever. Etruscans, Basques and Iberians might all have come from but it enter in contradiction with their high rate of R1b, even IE speaking anatolians were overwhelmingly J2 iirc so as I said if they came indeed from Aantolia they would have be very different from other anatolians

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That was a tongue in cheek post about Etruscans speaking an EEF language. You know, the guys who migrated from ANATOLIA.... 8000 years ago in the neolithic lmao

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Honestly I think attributing the languages of non-IE west meds to the EEF is a hasty conclusion. No evidence other mostly EEF people like the Minoans spoke similar language.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well the only alternative is WHG... and in case of the minoans they had clear near eastern Caucaso-Zagrosian admixture with paternal haplogroups and all.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The saddest thing that Tyrrhenika is lost.

            20th century pseudoscience based and semi-mythological and ambiguous antiquity records are entirely worthless in front of real archeological records coupled with genetic evidence, sorry

            phrenology is not an evidence, genetics are

            Genetics has not refuted ancient historians, sorry. The fact that most Etruscans were R1b Italics is to be expected.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            genetics are hard science, ancient historians are closer to mythology

            sorry, science > ramblings of 2000 years old schizos that believed in spontaneous generation

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yes Etruscans had far more R1b than other Italics I reckon. Again we find that weird paradox between a non IE speaking people who has an extremely high rate of IE haplogroups.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Clearly matriarchal culture that became patriarchal after steppe incursion.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            matriarchal farmcels, but no actually, a huge ammount of etruscan r1b was v88 like in whg and sardinians

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          20th century pseudoscience based and semi-mythological and ambiguous antiquity records are entirely worthless in front of real archeological records coupled with genetic evidence, sorry

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Just as they were not mistaken when said that original Sicani were from Iberia and we found R-Df27 among them
          do you have a link for that btw?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Pic rel.

            genetics are hard science, ancient historians are closer to mythology

            sorry, science > ramblings of 2000 years old schizos that believed in spontaneous generation

            Historians were right about sicani and I bet they were right about etruscans. At least they were indeed 70% anatolian lol.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Sicilians used to be sardinians with reversed Yamnaya/WHG profiles. Also, who is the churka in sicily or those 60% Yamnaya guys?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The 60% Yamnaya guys are Scythians they cluster with Tajiks.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no they dont and only a few Tajiks have any Steppe DNA comparable to North Euros.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            comparable with albanians*
            Target: Pamiri_Rushan
            Distance: 1.2578% / 0.01257817
            36.2 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
            30.4 Iran_ShahrISokhta_BA1_BMAC
            16.0 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            6.8 China_Upper_YellowRiver_LN
            5.4 Russia_Sosnoviy_WSHG
            5.2 Iran_ShahrISokhta_BA2_Harappan

            Target: Albanian
            Distance: 2.4084% / 0.02408396
            60.0 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            36.8 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
            1.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG
            0.8 Iran_GanjDareh_N
            0.6 China_Upper_YellowRiver_LN

            incidentially is only a little town raped by russians with 6000 inhabitants

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The Anatolian origin theory was always moronic. So they came from Anatolia in historic times, went around the Greeks somehow, but not just in Greece, even in Southern Italy to then somehow conquer a large part of the North where they left an advanced civilization with writing, but absolutely no trace of it in Anatolia itself?

          https://i.imgur.com/ALmO1dM.jpg

          OG etruscans were lydian, those are assimilated italics

          >last of the three non-indo-europeans
          What did Coon think of the Basques, or who were the first two?

          Well the only alternative is WHG... and in case of the minoans they had clear near eastern Caucaso-Zagrosian admixture with paternal haplogroups and all.

          My theory is Basque=WHG, Etruscan=EEF and Minoan=Sumerian/Hurro-Urartian/whatever, until the scientists find any more connection.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Basque is definitely EEF.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            EEF language has connections to other parts of Europe not to mention Basques are 70% EEF.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Of course it depends on what we mean, as EEF were a mix of WHG and Anatolian.
            Western EEF which should be ancestral to Basques was almost entirely WHG paternally. Etruscans had a good amount of haplogroup G, and on G25 looks like most of their WHG would come from their steppe part.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No. Western EEF was divided between G2a, I2, H, E1b1b, etc. It was never entirely one group.

            Basque is an EEF language from an Anatolian one connected with other EEF languages and you will have to live with it.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, it was one group that's associated with the spread of Megaliths, probably originating somewhere between France and Germany (Michelsberg culture?). British and Scandinavian farmers were entirely I2. And we have samples from Wartberg culture that are still around half WHG in 3000 BC.
            Of course we don't know if they actually spoke a language from WHG or if Basque really comes from them, but they are the most obvious source, and what Basques really differ from the people around them is higher WHG.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >British and Scandinavian farmers were entirely I2.
            They weren't but this is irrelevant.
            >between France and Germany
            >Wartberg culture
            Which has nothing to do with Iberian EEF which came from Italian EEF. Try to use your nonexistent brain.
            >what Basques really differ from
            Wrong again, moron. Basques differ in their lack of African DNA that Spaniards have and have less WHG than the French. Basque is EEF.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Wrong again, moron. Basques differ in their lack of African DNA that Spaniards have and have less WHG than the French. Basque is EEF.
            Wrong other non nafri admixed Spaniards are still different from Basques

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, frick you, you stupid fricking Black person.
            Just because the earliest Iberian farmers come from the Mediterranean it doesn't mean there were no population movements later. The association between the Atlantic Megalithic, higher WHG and overwhelming majority Y-haplogroup I is undeniable.
            Basques aren't really even Iberian, they probably originate from somewhere in France.
            The models where northern Europeans get more WHG are shit, it's always because Yamnaya is used as the Steppe source while the real Corded Ware source was more EHG/WHG shifted.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Basques aren't really even Iberian, they probably originate from somewhere in France.
            gay Black person moron alert.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Basques aren't really even Iberian, they probably originate from somewhere in France.
            homosexual black dumb alert.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Basques, Nuragics and Aquitanians are derived from Iberians, same linguistic family.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Aquitanians are subhumans frenchoid chimp thoughbeit and no the basques aren't aquitanians, they merely speak a similar language but explaining the details would take too long and would make us derive from the subject
            >Nuragics
            idk but regardless sardinians are very far from Iberian genetically unlike etruscans

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The language of Basques, Iberians, Nuragics and pre-French aquitanians share a lot of elements. A Sardinian university took the time to study.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Which would give strength to the EEF hypothesis then

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            According to the Spanish myths, from pagan and christian era, Sardinia, Ireland and Sicily got colonized by Spanish, kinda ironic since both share inherently linguistic elements of Iberian Preindoeuropean from Spanish Mediterranean coast, or Indoeuropean Q-Celtic from Spanish Atlantic coast. There is truth behind the myths.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Basque was clearly always an EEF language. WHG creatures did not leave any linguistic remains behind.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >WHG creatures did not leave any linguistic remains behind.
            This we do not know. Maybe stuff relating to fishing or forests and its contents/creatures.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pre-IE iberians are paternally whg. Unless it was a matriarchal society it would be a weird case

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Most of societies prior to Bronze Age were culturally matriarchal or matrilocal at least, but politically lead by men. Sumerians, Minoans, Egyptians, Lydians, Canaanites, etc.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            WHGs and ENFs had more in common than WHGs and Siberians. To start with they originated in Balkans, very close to Anatolia and Caucasus.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Just because the earliest Iberian farmers come from the Mediterranean
            Seething moron. Iberian farmer are from Italy and you are talking about German and British farmers.
            >Basques aren't really even Iberian
            Basque originate in Iberia you shit eating moron.
            >The models where northern Europeans get more WHG are shit
            There's no point in debating with this monkey.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'll just repeat insults
            Good argument. Did you even read my fricking post?
            You are probably just an idiot stuck at 19th century ideas of descending from Cro-Magnons, that's why you are clinging to WHG so much. In reality there's likely no one today who has more than 15% WHG admixture, but Basques at least had 20-30% WHG farmer ancestors.

            Basques, Nuragics and Aquitanians are derived from Iberians, same linguistic family.

            https://i.imgur.com/6YDXUNd.jpg

            The language of Basques, Iberians, Nuragics and pre-French aquitanians share a lot of elements. A Sardinian university took the time to study.

            Which would give strength to the EEF hypothesis then

            Sardinians obviously don't come from purely Italian Neolithic, they have higher WHG and around 40% haplogroup I.
            I don't know all the Sardinian haplogroups, but here's an example, straight from Michelsberg actually, found in later Neolithic Iberia and Chalcolithic Basque country
            https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-S12377/tree
            Or this one which include most of modern Sardinian I, something like a 4000 BC migration from Iberia
            https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-L160/tree

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what are you even talking about? literally fake premise

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Basque is WHG. I have no proof but neither do I have doubts. There just isn't enough to data to actually ascertain anything.
            Also I2 is a HG haplogroup.
            Being haplogroup G must be painful though.
            Just a lifetime of this:

            >British and Scandinavian farmers were entirely I2.
            They weren't but this is irrelevant.
            >between France and Germany
            >Wartberg culture
            Which has nothing to do with Iberian EEF which came from Italian EEF. Try to use your nonexistent brain.
            >what Basques really differ from
            Wrong again, moron. Basques differ in their lack of African DNA that Spaniards have and have less WHG than the French. Basque is EEF.

            Basques also have north african DNA doe.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Being haplogroup G must be painful though.
            Stalin was a G thoughbeit he avenged them

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      phrenology is not an evidence, genetics are

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >earlier el Argar people of Spain
      Western Mediterranean. El Argar is well tested, they are all West Mediterraneans similar to Basques. This time there's no doubt about it because both commoners and elites (including the richest Bronze Age Iberian graves) have been tested.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Europeans are basic and very related to one another with minimal drift except Balto-Slavs. Etruscans just so happened to have similar Steppe-WHG-ANF to Iberians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No I think they might also be related to them culturally and linguistically. It can't be a coincidence that all the non-IE speaking (iberians, basque, etruscans, tartessian...) people of the ancient western southern europe all cluster so much genetically, it's more than just a matter of having similar admixture.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Good point. Also that R1b. I take my past back, clearly there is some relation.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Another similitude is the worshiping of chtonic gods as opposed to IE who worshipped celestial deities
    the most famous god among iberians was Endovelicus, a sort of local Hades.
    Likewise the main deity among the etruscan Suri is a chtonic solar god (as weird as it sound)
    Among the basque the main god is Sugaar a cave dwelling dragon.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > How related were the Etruscans to the Iberians and Basques? Why does the Etruscan aristocracy cluster so close to present-day Iberians? They must have had a common origin.
    you're a fricking Black person. your blood is mud

    Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
    Distance: 3.3838% / 0.03383825
    54.8 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
    32.0 CordedWare_PNL001
    11.2 Hungary_EN_HG_Koros
    2.0 Yoruba

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Modern 50-60% R1b Iberians

    Now use 100% R1b ancient Iberians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >100% R1b ancient Iberians
      nonsense, nobody was 100% r1b.
      And they're still pretty close.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >nobody was
        Well, Iberians pretty much were. In the El Argar set there was one E1b and 50 or so R1b, and those were multiple different sites, so it's not like they tested related families.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Those samples are low coverage.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The aristocrat outliers resemble Greeks and Italians.

    The slaves resemble Iberians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is what frustration and inferiority complex look like. The Monterozzi necropolis was literally where the highest caste of Etruscans were buried.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's where the slaves were buried.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ok guys hear me out for the super schizo theory.
    What if the Basques, Iberians, Etruscans were all Austronesians in origin?
    You find that stupid right? A French anthropologist affiliated with the nazi-friendly Vichy regime classed the Iberians as part of the Austroneisan race
    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Montandon#Taxinomie_des_races
    I think he might have been onto something. After all what are Iberians know for historically? Navigation and what are Polynesians know for? navigation as well, it all make sense

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is what reading outdated anthropologist does to a mfer

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >They must have had a common origin.
    obviously, both descend from bell beakers p312 carriers that passed through france, a branch went west and the other east

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shared Bell Beaker roots

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Too broad since Irish or Bretons aren't part of this west med cluster

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Too broad since Irish or Bretons
        Lack of Atlantic Megalithic cultures admixture.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        italics and iberians specifically descend from the the same branch of p312 bell beakers that passed though france

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What do you guys use to generate those tables?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      vahaduo

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