I am the China Sage

Ask your historical questions concerning Imperial Chyna and I'll answer to the best of my abilities. I've read a few books, plenty of Wikipedia pages and even some Stanford articles, which essentially makes me more educated in the matter than 91% of this board.

As the spammer is seemingly gone I supposed we can finally have these threads.

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  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    why are you gay?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      I am not gay, but since you brought the subject up: the Ming dynasty had to ban same-sex relations due a crisis that also faces modern China. Female infanticide led a demographic crisis, as there were not enough females the men resorted to homosexual behavior and even marriage. This was of course in the most affected regions, though the census may not be accurate there were across the country some 9 females for every 10 males.

      Homosexuality was only one of the ways to deal with this problem, some places practice polyandry, in which brothers would marry the same woman. Though the lady was certainly happy about the financial security, this was obviously not the best of arrangements. This practice was common in Tibet but some claim the Japanese introduced it.

      Why didn't your ancestors drink more milk to fight off the Mongols?

      I am not related to the Chinese or any East Asians. China actually put up a good fight against the Mongols, mainly because they were already prepared for them (due to terrible previous territorial losses). By the time the Song dynasty breathed its last the territory held by the Khans stretched as far as eastern Europe.

      One of the last strongholds of the Song was thought by the court to be impregnable, usually a display of arrogance but somewhat correct. After years of siege involving Chinese turncoats, Koreans and steppe peoples the defenses finally fell to Muslim engineers. As for the last emperors, one, a child, drowned after a tragic sea battle, the other was sent into exile in Tibet.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Female infanticide led a demographic crisis, as there were not enough females the men resorted to homosexual behavior and even marriage.
        Whats your source on this, it was represented to me as a ban on homosexual anal penetration purposed to uphold social roles
        Also how is banning butt sex supposed to solve the demographic crisis

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why didn't your ancestors drink more milk to fight off the Mongols?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Song’s resistance against Mongols lasted for a century, only fell because of a moronic emperor. Your hard as nail afghanis surrounded within minutes.

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    1. What are the zaniest religions in China that went extinct?
    2. What were the zaniest policies implimented?
    3. Why has Chinese not developed a sonic approach to etymology that seeks to draw out similarities and differences between Chinese and Sino-Tibetan languages?
    4. What zany directions did Chinese mathematics go into that Western math didn't?
    5. What are some cool Chinese technologies that the West didn't/hasn't adopted?
    6. What's some stuff that you've stumbled upon that's stood out to you most?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >1. What are the zaniest religions in China that went extinct?
      China seems to have a variety of cults that spawn on occasion mainly due to the diversity in religious beliefs. The more popular cases like Hong Xiuquan are the end of a tradition more than anything, uprisings in fact are often led by some self-proclaimed wizard, the Yellow Turbans being the most famous. The Five Pecks of Rice for instance were in pursuit of Taoist immortality which involved a variety of rituals, including detailed sexual practices to muster one's qi.

      Going that way of course brings us to Chinese alchemy which is more magic than not. Several emperors have dropped dead due to immediate, delayed, accidental and supposed poisonings, mercury being the main culprit. Mercury is associated with eternal life, the first emperor's tomb may even include artificial waterways of mercury meant to simulate China's rivers. Some people have suggested that the consumption was a Taoist ritual in which people would "fake" their deaths so as to attain true immortality, and that emperors in particular engaged in it aware and willingly.

      Witch doctors, mages and alchemists were quite common in society, some emperors patronage of a particular quack would lead to a charlatan boom. Magic, medicine and religion blended in bizarre ways which I suppose still survive to this day.

      >2. What were the zaniest policies implimented?
      Subjects of the Emperor couldn't used certain characters of his name, the usual practice was then to use unusual characters to name/renamed an incumbent but sometimes an emperor with an ubiquitous one refused to change their name which led to absolute chaos in the records.

      Early cities had a very precise layouts based on Feng Shui, with strict rules and curfew. As imperial authority inevitably dwindled over the years, citizens would dig holes into the walls as doors to their own house to get out at night. By the later days you'd have stalls and shops all over the streets.

      cont

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >2. What were the zaniest policies implimented?
        Nuns of different religions would be persecuted on occasion depending on what their reputation for whoring was at a given dynasty or year.

        Chinese paper money came about for two reasons, the first that the copper and iron coins used were too heavy to transport and pay taxes with, the second is that the barbarians to the north would hoard all of what they got through trade so as to keep their metals.

        The Mongols couldn't really manage paper money as well as the Song, but it was the Ming founder who basically buried the practice for good. Being of a humble background and not understanding inflation, he printed as much of it as he could.

        Emperor Taizong, one of the most celebrated Chinese emperors, had a sort of complex about his background. He issued a genealogy of great Han families to be catalogued and ranked, but his scholars put the dynastic Li clan in the middle of it, behind several traditional Chinese clans, which deeply enraged Taizong.

        Empress Wu, China's only female ruler, managed to remain in power by promoting talented individuals of low birth whose career depended entirely on her good will. This opened the way for Chinese meritocracy as the old scholar class would eventually be killed off.

        Empress Wu also claimed to be the reincarnation of Buddhas, even publishing her own religious texts to back it up.

        Traditionally the court employed a small government to rule over a large territory, but exams were divided into several levels as well as being the aspirations of the common man. This often produced an excess of bureaucrats who, without being able to find a job would turn to teaching, basically causing a ponzi scheme.

        Talented scholars who couldn't find work were sent to imperial academies, where they'd spend their days publishing complaints about imperial policies. Some would do that their whole lives without ever getting a job.

        I'll continue with these later if I remember more

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >3. Why has Chinese not developed a sonic approach to etymology that seeks to draw out similarities and differences between Chinese and Sino-Tibetan languages?
          >4. What zany directions did Chinese mathematics go into that Western math didn't?
          These are too big-brained for me I'm afraid. I recall reading somewhere that the Chinese didn't have a Greek heritage and therefore couldn't really work things out as well as Westerners. For instance, court astronomers could catalog and predict the movement of celestial bodies but they didn't work that into a system of how it all operated together, which was later introduced by the Jesuits.

          I think there's a paper written on this subject but I don't recall it, sorry.

          >5. What are some cool Chinese technologies that the West didn't/hasn't adopted?
          I think the Chinese had iron casting much earlier than anyone else, but it never really left the region or developed further.

          Since China employed large armies early on, they developed a flag system to issue commands from hilltops and coordinate large groups. The Mongols employed it with great success.

          The Han Dynasty employed large infantry units armed with crossbows against horse archers, again successfully.

          Barbarians as frontier defense was a common, and often disastrous practice. They would settle along the border and act as the first line against incursions but as authority weakened they'd become the raiders themselves.

          Flooding was a common tactic used by the military, mainly due to the large amount of canals and waterways in China. Entire cities would be besieged and then flooded, left to rot and disease until the enemy succumbed.

          The Chinese economy was very well integrated due to the Grand Canal, which used a water lock system to level sections of the waterways so that ships could rise or descend safely.

          China practiced intensive farming, which took a much heavier toll on the average peasant but it also produced larger yields with smaller fields.

          cont

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >5. What are some cool Chinese technologies that the West didn't/hasn't adopted?
            Many large projects, including most of the Great Wall, are made from rammed earth. Earth is packed into a mold such as a wall and then bound with blood or some sort of glue, though not the prettiest way to build things it's quite resilient and simple. Most of what we have of ancient Chinese cities is the rammed earth foundation.

            The Chinese court always monopolized two very important commodities, namely salt and iron. Iron allowed for a strong grip on many industries and salt, being a vital necessity produced a lot of revenue. Salt was acquired from either the sea or brine wells which were described by Marco Polo.

            I'll add more if I remember.

            >6. What's some stuff that you've stumbled upon that's stood out to you most?
            Bureaucracy. I find China to be rather unique in that regard. There was hardly a lack of military careers or duties but at one point people began to shun it in a way, that being a warrior or military man was not exactly something to be proud of. Parents wanted their children to be learned and well educated, a gentleman above all else.

            I historically consider China to be, military, very weak, not compared to their enemies and neighbors but with itself. With their riches and population they should've been devastating but as a nation of scholars, and Confucianism opposing expansionism, they underachieved in that regard.

            In the Song dynasty one would say that "you shouldn't make nails out of good iron".

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks for all the replies.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            The impression I have of Chinese statecraft (from The Water Margin and reading their history) is one where they did "balance of power" stuff but with *China* as the area to do so, rather than, say, England with the Continent.
            I got the impression that the high court basically viewed the military with suspicion, and tried to keep it minimal.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, that's mostly the case. A common misconception is that the Emperor is nothing but a powerless puppet in history, this is often true but they also have an absolute authority and so the means to seize power if they wish. Most statesmanship considers the Son of Heaven to be an axis of power for the sake of bureaucratic action, a good Chinese emperor is one that simply delegates tasks to talented individuals, never overstepping his competence or virtuous duties.

            Low trust in the military is the norm but the dynamic depends on each dynasty. The founding Qin was a legalist state constructed as a war machine, meant more for conquest than anything, the succeeding Han therefore went through a demilitarization of sorts, most military action moved away to periphery as border patrol so that the center couldn't be challenged. Eventually this frontier guard was manned by lowlifes and the very barbarians it was meant to keep at bay, commanders were no longer rotated due to uprisings and incursions, by the end the Han had not only raised several of its own subjects into warlords, they even gave them a loyal army as well a rebellious peasants to train them on.

            The Tang were of a northern background, with a stronger military tradition. Taizong conquered China but never truly unified it, regions remained in control of subjected military commanders. An Lushan is one of the best examples of court politics turning into an inevitable rebellion, with the death of his patron at court and the rise an enemy, his choices were to either abandon everything or fight for his life. The uprising was devastating and the Tang never recovered from it.

            cont

            Thanks for all the replies.

            cheers!

            >most people fled to southern China
            did they decide to switch haplogroups or did their Y dnas die out?

            that's what the book say I know nothing about haploshit it's runes to me

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Song dynasty is a bizarre case for history in general. After the collapse of the Tang a period of chaos followed in which certain provinces south of the Wall were not part of the Song realm, but rather in control of enemies. The courts response to this situation was a ridiculous investment into the military that was not only inconclusive in the short term but didn't really prevent them being driven south, furthermore, the Song also paid for the standing armies of their own enemies through tribute. They seemed to get things together by the time the Mongols came but then it was already a force too mighty to resist.

            Later military suffered from a completely different problem, an inability to properly adopt foreign technology. By the Ming this was already an issue, when a Portuguese gunner managed to blast himself (and nearby Chinese) with a cannon, the court went into a typical round of factionalism.

            >Female infanticide led a demographic crisis, as there were not enough females the men resorted to homosexual behavior and even marriage.
            Whats your source on this, it was represented to me as a ban on homosexual anal penetration purposed to uphold social roles
            Also how is banning butt sex supposed to solve the demographic crisis

            I use a Harvard series of Chinese history for reference, the Ming book mentions marriage between men in Guangdong and Fujian (mainly among seafarers), which was done by replacing some characters in the words which to me may as well be magic. It mentions Shen Defu as a source, I'm not sure if this is a serious practice or just a custom thing. I can post the quote if you want.

            Why did people take claims about eunuchs causing decline/collapse of dynasties seriously? One would think that there would be some backlash to this narrative but i have seen it spread to modern pop-culture like Europa Universalis 4. Even a quick glance at the actual events shows how biased this narrative is.

            They were a large and influential faction. When the Tang collapsed some warlord put 5000 eunuchs to the sword. They were in control of military affairs too.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            I know they got gay married but I'm asking about the connection between that and a demographic crisis and sodomy laws

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Seems to be a conclusion reached by the author more than anything in the sources. He claims that the demographic issues contributed to a regularization of this type of behavior. Looks like conjecture to me.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Alright thx
            Addendum what's ur favourite Chinese author

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            I know they were, I'm asking why they constantly get blamed for stuff
            "Scholar-gentry" or princes aren't really despite constantly shitting up China

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            What is your personal favourite major dynasty, and favourite period of disunity?

            Were there notable benefits for having a daughter sent off for Imperial concubinage? It only ever seems to come up when a concubine falls out of favour and gets her whole family eradicated, but I have to assume that it's usually a social benefit.

            On the best emperors being good delegators, does that mean that the more workaholic emperors like Hongwu tend to get a bad rep among contemporary sources?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Song dynasty and Tang collapse. I don't know exactly how harem politics worked but I'd assume a prominent official could promote his daughter well enough. Princes could be made on an emperor's whim and that was often a point of serious strife at court. Noblewomen had a varying degree of influence historically but in some cases like the Tang dynasty they were very influential and in complete control of politics for a time. There were plenty of merchants willing to pay exorbitant prices to marry a girl of a prestigious line.

            Ming autocracy carries a bad reputation in general as it's seem as a source of brutality and purges. Bureaucrats obviously want more influence which is why they're so keen on having child emperors, proactive rulers however are not really a bad thing in itself, but when princes learned about Li Shimin's life it was surely about diplomacy and administration and not how to lead armies and shoot the bow.

            Hongwu has some unflattering portraits and at his deathbed he told off ministers who wished to change laws. Seems like a shaky relationship.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            well liked officials and people usually entered their daughters into the imperial harem starting of as servant staff
            and the relatives of the daughter in the harem will usually see sponsorship from the imperial household or moved to a more favourable dwelling people who's daughter did not make it above a servants position after a certain period of time would see their daughter leave the imperial staff and return home with a pension for them and the family this could also include a tax exemption favourable daughters that have become concubines of the emperor or his male relatives or servants of influential female members of the imperial family may see themselves receive honours or on the rear occasion even titles and land they may also find themselves recommended by eunuchs for the imperial exam or for official positions

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            just to clarify i am not op i am the person below
            I me
            v

            well liked officials and people usually entered their daughters into the imperial harem starting of as servant staff
            and the relatives of the daughter in the harem will usually see sponsorship from the imperial household or moved to a more favourable dwelling people who's daughter did not make it above a servants position after a certain period of time would see their daughter leave the imperial staff and return home with a pension for them and the family this could also include a tax exemption favourable daughters that have become concubines of the emperor or his male relatives or servants of influential female members of the imperial family may see themselves receive honours or on the rear occasion even titles and land they may also find themselves recommended by eunuchs for the imperial exam or for official positions

            this is mostly drawing from qing dynasty history about the time of qianlong though the examples i've given may not be too common that is not to say that they are rare either

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Talented scholars who couldn't find work were sent to imperial academies, where they'd spend their days publishing complaints about imperial policies. Some would do that their whole lives without ever getting a job.
          Based academic capture of dissent and faux-dissident capture of academia.

          >This often produced an excess of bureaucrats who, without being able to find a job would turn to teaching, basically causing a ponzi scheme.
          Thank God the West has moved past such horrors!

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          the old scholar classes existed because the meritocracy of the examination system meaning it wasnt just the aristocracy and whoever had gained the favour of the government or monarch who gained power

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Empress Wu, China's only female ruler, managed to remain in power by promoting talented individuals of low birth whose career depended entirely on her good will. This opened the way for Chinese meritocracy as the old scholar class would eventually be killed off.
          wrong anon she was one of a handful of chinas female rulers, including cixi.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >What's some stuff that you've stumbled upon that's stood out to you most?
      I'm not OP, but what stood out to me was how much energy was expended on irrelevant matters of ritual detail in medieval China.
      There was some Song emperor who was the adopted son of the previous emperor. For the first few years of his reign, the most important political issue among the elite; crowding out all discussion of military and economic matters; was an autistic dispute over the correct ritual terminology to be used for the emperor's natural and adopted fathers.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Confucian rituals can be incredibly autistic. Officials had to take some years off their duties in case a parent died, for mourning. If the realm was shitting itself they'd make an exception for talented individuals but still it wasn't very good for political stability. Court affairs were tedious, giving unrequested opinions or speaking about matters that did not directly concern one's duties could be punished with death. Sima Qian was castrated for defending an incompetent general.

        Do you have some recommendations for a beginner to get into Chinese history?

        There are plenty of introductory books for Chinese history but I think they're either very simple or a waste of time. Harvard has a series of short books on each dynasty which is a good enough overview, though and it doesn't really go into pre-unification and post-imperial periods. You may want to pick a particular dynasty you like and look for specific works about it. In-depth works like the Cambridge History of China are several tomes worth which is a little overwhelming.

        Wikipedia isn't perfect but if you know absolutely nothing about the subject it's always a good start.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    BUMP
    have a random tongue twister that i found
    虚者实之,实者虚之,虚虚实实,用兵之道!
    xūzhěshízhī, shízhěxūzhī, xūxūshíshí, yòngbīngzhīdào!

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    What are the main historical implications of a rice growing south a wheat/milet growing north? I recently read this is the chief driver of chinese history. Summarize it for my like im an undergrad and this is a 101 course, great monkey sage, equal of heaven

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Imperial China was founded some 2200 years ago, the most important region to the Han people being the Yellow River basin in the north. The Yellow river is an abysmal system that constantly requires maintenance so as to not kill the locals surrounding it, which made agriculture a hefty, but doable task. After the collapse of the Han dynasty and the civil war that followed, most people fled to southern China, to the basin of the Yangzi river which at the time was marshland. Centuries followed the fall of the Han with a divided China, the south being reclaimed into quality agricultural land and slowly becoming the breadbasket of the entire region.

      This deal was sealed with the construction of the Grand Canal, a gigantic system connecting both rivers. From this point on the northern part of country, despite being the prestigious cradle of Chinese civilization, became dependent on the rich southern half. In the centuries before reunification the south had also developed a distinctive culture from the "barbarian" north, which from that point became the dominating aspect of Chinese civilization. Though foreign dynasties would follow they had to rely on southern excellence to manage the bureaucracy. Yuan and Qing for instance had quotas for their own kin and northerners because they couldn't compete with Yangzi academics.

      When European trade arrived wealth was driven even further south due to the huge influx of silver. From that point on the bulk of China was basically down there, even if the emperor was not.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >most people fled to southern China
        did they decide to switch haplogroups or did their Y dnas die out?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Arr rook same, mtDNA has more differences, as southern Han settlers often commit genocide against local proto-Hmongs.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >did they decide to switch haplogroups or did their Y dnas die out?
          Other way around, Inner Mongolians and Manchus have significant Han ancestry.
          Modern northerners are southern shifted compared to Iron age samples.

          Arr rook same, mtDNA has more differences, as southern Han settlers often commit genocide against local proto-Hmongs.

          While all Southern Han derive part of their ancestry from neolithic Yellow river millet farmers this component isn't entirely derived from historical Sinitic migrations and many minorities within the region were impacted as well.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    What is pic rel thinking about?

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    How's the weather in Ontario?

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous
  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why did people take claims about eunuchs causing decline/collapse of dynasties seriously? One would think that there would be some backlash to this narrative but i have seen it spread to modern pop-culture like Europa Universalis 4. Even a quick glance at the actual events shows how biased this narrative is.

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Had the Tang not declined and collapsed the way it did would general antipathy towards military power escalated the way it did in later dynasties? The Tang was probably the most militant and militarily competent dynasty that actually utilized the empire's size and wealth to
    advantage and generally brought prosperity to the empire as a whole.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm not too sure, empires are always struggling to centralize power. Early Qin reforms were introduced to prevent accumulation of land by the wealthy, the Tang too changed the examinations to force powerful landlords to move to the capital, this way they'd lose influence and become dependent on imperial authority. Despotism is a real issue later, paranoia becomes the norm under brutal punishments and nasty successions, the people with power to challenge that naturally come under suspicion.

      Alright thx
      Addendum what's ur favourite Chinese author

      I think I've only read co-authors, almost all sources I have are western. I plan on reading some of the classics eventually, Chinese however is way too complex for me.

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    What was the impact of PIE migrations on China?

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    When did China’s technology fall significantly behind the west as a whole? Was it during the Manchu era?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      The big leap happened in the Qing yes, but the divergence started around the renaissance. China started to significantly fall behind in technology but remained richer until the 19th century or so.

      I know they were, I'm asking why they constantly get blamed for stuff
      "Scholar-gentry" or princes aren't really despite constantly shitting up China

      Arguably because powerful eunuchs aren't necessary to run the bureaucracy. Most Chinese statecraft sees factionalism as inherently bad, a large group of influential inner-palace people is considered to be a sign of decay. When eunuch factions grow large enough they also start to fight with each other which makes things even worse.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Were there Renaissance, or simply pre-Qing Westaboos in China who liked Western goods and ideas, or wanted China to catch up to the West in such ways?

  13. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Who are the principal figures in Chinese philosophy aside from Confucius and Lao Tzu?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      There are other figures to Confucianism such as Mencius, since Confucius had a lot of disciples. Neo-Confucianism came around in the Song with its own scholars revising the meaning of the classics so you might want to look into that. Legalism is mostly concerned with statecraft but it's very important to Chinese history with characters such as Shang Yang, Han Fei and Li Si. Chinese Buddhist sects have their own philosophies but I know little about that.

      China developed many of its philosophical schools in the Warring States period but they didn't survive through unification. We have some idea about things like Mohism but of others like Agriculturalism and Militarism very little remains. Legalism was shunned after the Qin collapsed but its ideas were still very important for later dynasties.

      >Empress Wu, China's only female ruler, managed to remain in power by promoting talented individuals of low birth whose career depended entirely on her good will. This opened the way for Chinese meritocracy as the old scholar class would eventually be killed off.
      wrong anon she was one of a handful of chinas female rulers, including cixi.

      I meant as proper emperor more so than being in control of political affairs.

      Were there Renaissance, or simply pre-Qing Westaboos in China who liked Western goods and ideas, or wanted China to catch up to the West in such ways?

      Yes, there were always people like that, in fact that's how Buddhism took a hold in China despite being a foreign belief. Jesuits and other early missionaries found plenty of success because local scholars were open to new ideas, even though officials may have opposed it. European cannons made a big impact even at court, as some advocated using them in the northern border.

      Tributary states worked in a similar way. China wasn't dependent on foreign riches but tribute was still seen as important for its exotic nature, foreign goods and even animals such as giraffes were highly prized as a means for the emperor to show the extent of his influence.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Frick I just realised I could have made the pun 西aboos

  14. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Are you Chinese or brown?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Are you Chinese or brown?

  15. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Do you have some recommendations for a beginner to get into Chinese history?

  16. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Opinions on New Qing history? Should we really take their word when the Manchus referred to their territories as China? Or was it all contrarian bs?

  17. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >is responsible for ~50% of the overseas chinese population
    what the frick was their problem

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >what is terrain?

  18. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I’ve read three books and a few Wikipedia articles, I am now an expert, AMA!

    When are you killing yourself? Please record a video of it for us. Seppuku ideally.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >When are you killing yourself? Please record a video of it for us. Seppuku ide-ACK

  19. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why did the Chinese stop exploring in the 1400s?
    Why did they kill and belittle Zheng He?
    Did they kill him for being Persian and Muslim?
    han people are moronic

  20. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Give me some good book/s in english on Chinese history that go from the first dynasties to roughly 1900's in about 500-1500 page span and are written by Chinese authors.

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