I dislike Wayland.

It's their PR wing that turned me off. And the fact that it's bloated.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Oy vey that's anti semitic and transphobic. Now you deserve to be censored.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >domain revoked
      >dropped by anti-ddos service
      >dropped by payment processors
      >blacklisted from ever using visa, mastercard, amex and discover

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It deliberately omits critical feature like kinetic scrolling and a window's ability to position itself. 100% convinced it's goal is to sabotage desktop linux.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >a windows ability to position itself
      I haven't seen a window do this in the 26 years I've been using a computer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You have no idea what you're talking about then. Tons of apps do this.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Oh really? Name one so I can check it out.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            wine

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            wine? which application are you running through wine? or are you talking about the configuration GUI?

            When loading a saved desktop file, Emacs can reposition every single window exactly where it was.

            I tried this on X and it failed horribly, all of my windows ended up on the same workspace with incorrect positions

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            skill issue

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            More like emacs doesn't have any idea that my window manager has multiple workspaces windows can appear on. I tried it on awesome, i3 and kde. This is why saving state needs to be handled by the wm.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            nope

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I accept your concession. The only example having been provided is emacs, which handles it poorly.

            >GE fork that everyone and their mum uses
            I have no idea what this is supposed to be. But anyways wine wayland does a crazy hack where it abuses subsurfaces to implement it instead of just positioning windows.

            >I have no idea what this is supposed to be.
            You've seriously never heard of the GE fork? Even the latest lutris wine builds are all derived from GE now, same with Sodium.
            >crazy hack
            That's not a hack, they're subsurfaces constrained by a surface, which is a completely normal way to handle this kind of functionality.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Feel free to stop being moronic at any time.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I accept your concession. Wine's virtual desktops (which no one uses anymore) don't require the protocol to position its windows, so this is not even an example (talk about moronation).
            emacs desktop sessions (which I doubt anyone uses) didn't even work on X.
            A critical feature isn't something that a single application used poorly. There are a lot of things you could've chosen to poke a stick at, and you chose one that makes you out to be a moron.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The virtual desktop feature

            So far you guys have 1 application that uses this, and does it poorly. Then someone said wine, which means nothing, because wine only has a configuration GUI.

            moron

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Virtual desktops were dropped from mainline support. Also considering it renders a 2D surface it is more than likely able to position whatever window it wants using its own internal API. It wouldn't need wayland to manage it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Oh, actually it was just dropped from the GE fork that everyone and their mum uses, wine still supports it upstream. Either way I don't see why wine needs either X or wayland to position windows inside a virtual desktop.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >GE fork that everyone and their mum uses
            I have no idea what this is supposed to be. But anyways wine wayland does a crazy hack where it abuses subsurfaces to implement it instead of just positioning windows.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I tried this on X and it failed horribly, all of my windows ended up on the same workspace with incorrect positions
            I do this every day on both X and Windows and it just works.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            When loading a saved desktop file, Emacs can reposition every single window exactly where it was.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You can do it yourself with SDL2, position window.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            literally any GUI toolkit wanting to center a window on a screen or any other part of the screen, so: a crapton of software.
            windows can and will be used for everything from splashes to quick edit popups.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            All of the splash screens for software I use open in the center.
            >popups
            layer surfaces can be positioned wherever the application wants.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also that's not an example. So far we have emacs. And it's just emacs. And it's also broken on X with any WM that provides multiple workspaces/virtual desktops.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >100% convinced it's goal is to sabotage desktop linux.
      X11 has already achieved this

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        kek this delusion

        wayland will be abandoned and sooner than later

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah only 2 more weeks, amirite? X11 is an absolutely abhorrent shitfest and a major reason behind Loonix's frickery. Wayland is shit too, but it will eventually (probably decades) be better in every way to X1

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Wayland is shit too, but it will eventually (probably decades) be better in every way to X1
            Way to go gayland, only 30 more years to be semi usable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Sorry x11 isn't gonna die. People are still writing software in xlib because it isn't ass like wayland. at best you'll end up with xlib apps on xwayland on wayland. Then some frickwit is gonna decide that in fact wayland was a mistake and we gotta write a new display server protocol and we'll have another layer.

            And then we'll have another protocol that 42%ers insist you have to use for muh security that has middle click paste broken for another literal 12 years.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Wayland is shit too, but it will eventually (probably decades) be better in every way to X1
            How will it do that when it deliberately makes it impossible to scroll through a long document on most laptops?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Do you not have page up/down?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I can do it with my keyboard or mouse because I use X11, which is not intentionally crippled by omitting nice features. Do you have stockholm syndrome or something? How could you actually defend not being able to scroll with a mouse?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Both of those seem incredibly painful compared to just using page down/up.
            >How could you actually defend not being able to scroll with a mouse?
            My mouse doesn't even allow me to do that on Windows.

            For me, it's the fact that it's literally unusable with high-DPI mice.
            >accidentally move the mouse too fast
            >shit randomly crashes
            This is because if the event queue fills up, the server kills the connection, crashing the application. Wayland wienersuckers defend this inherently unstable design, because "uI tHrEaDs ShOuLdN't BlOcK," and anyone who runs any CPU-intensive task in the background can go frick themselves.
            Xorg doesn't have this problem, btw.

            I use an aerox 5 and I'm getting an aerox 9, I've never had a problem with high dpi modes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            are you a gnome developer by any chance?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, I use a keyboard-driven workflow. I've never found scrolling with the mouse an effective method for traversing documents.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >he doesn't know the glory of mouse chording

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This is not your screen and mouse chording is overrated.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah I just cranked all of the rates to max and wildly waved my mouse around, nothing happened.

            It typically happens while something CPU- or IO-intensive is running in the background. To simulate this, try running a Wayland application through a terminal, suspend it with Ctrl-Z, move the mouse over the app for a few seconds, and then resume the process. The application will crash with the message
            >The Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
            Btw this also affects debuggers, since debuggers prevent the debugged application from clearing the event queue.

            For me, it's the fact that it's literally unusable with high-DPI mice.
            >accidentally move the mouse too fast
            >shit randomly crashes
            This is because if the event queue fills up, the server kills the connection, crashing the application. Wayland wienersuckers defend this inherently unstable design, because "uI tHrEaDs ShOuLdN't BlOcK," and anyone who runs any CPU-intensive task in the background can go frick themselves.
            Xorg doesn't have this problem, btw.

            btw here's the relevant issues
            >issue created 3 years ago
            https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/159
            and here's a more recent one from just 2 weeks ago
            https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/443

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > Btw this also affects debuggers, since debuggers prevent the debugged application from clearing the event queue.
            How in holy hell are you supposed to write a graphical app in wayland? Glad my work is too deep in Xorg to ever switch off Wayland, I sometimes keep programs paused in nsight for hours.

            What the frick? do wayland people actually use their computers?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Pretty sure there's some meme about Wayland devs using MacOS.
            Though I might be confusing them with FootDE.

            >suspend it with Ctrl-Z, move the mouse over the app for a few seconds, and then resume the process
            This is totally different from the scenario you just described.
            >his also affects debuggers, since debuggers prevent the debugged application from clearing the event queue.
            The gtk debugger seems to work just fine.

            >This is totally different from the scenario you just described
            That's just a way to reliably reproduce the same exact bug.
            As a real-world example, Firefricks will often crash on Wayland if you don't wait long enough after launching it to start moving the mouse. If you move the mouse while a tab is lagging your PC? Crash. Moving the mouse too soon after alt-tabbing between windows? Crash.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >That's just a way to reliably reproduce the same exact bug.
            You said using a hi dpi mouse would cause this bug but I have a hi dpi mouse and even trying excessively hard to reproduce it I couldn't. This is a totally different scenario.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >he did mention cpu intensive workloads
            Give me an application or test I can run with a CPU intensive workload, not some fake scenario where you're suspending a program. I'll even run stable diffusion at the same time to max out the GPU.

            And here we get to the real problem: wayland devs are too proud to admit that a bug they can't figure out how to reproduce might exist, even if there's an alternate way to reproduce the same exact bug.
            My hat is off to FootDE for apparently trying work through Wayland's mess.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The real problem is that I have asked all of you for working examples of the hypothetical you're referring to and every single time you've tried to sidestep providing anything practical. You're just as lame as the needlessly bureaucratic process behind every decision for the protocol.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I personally can't recreate this bug that many other people experience so it must not exist, they must just hate wayland
            ok

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            i provided one

            >This is totally different from the scenario you just described.
            not him but not really, he did mention cpu intensive workloads, sigstopping a program to simulate this is accurate
            personally i think this is unacceptable behaviour regardless, like i sometimes sigstop a game to do something else just so it's not chewing up resources/creating heat/using power, then sigcont it when i want to go back to it, this i can do reliably on X, apparently this is just another "you don't need that" on wayland

            i sometimes intentionally stop a program that otherwise can't be told to stop within itself, to temporarily prevent it using resources
            this you can test yourself, just;
            kill -STOP <program>
            anything you like, after however long you like, run;
            kill -CONT <program>
            and it should resume

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >bugs can't exist unless they happen to me
            >wontfix
            >imagine 1000 things malicious apps could potentially do
            >make wayland unusable trying to prevent them

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >bugs can't exist unless they happen to me
            Never stated this.
            >wontfix
            Yeah, the bureaucratic process they go through is needlessly drawn out. Obvious requests like tearing support should have been in the moment they were told its a necessity for games, Valve shouldn't have had to come in for it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >make wayland unusable trying to prevent them
            Hyprland works perfectly fine for me. All of this shit like not being able to tear or not being able to pass input to other applications aren't problems for me. Debuggers not being able to pause execution for GUIs is a real issue, I'm sure I'll be able to work around this just like I worked around the issues I had with X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >suspend it with Ctrl-Z, move the mouse over the app for a few seconds, and then resume the process
            This is totally different from the scenario you just described.
            >his also affects debuggers, since debuggers prevent the debugged application from clearing the event queue.
            The gtk debugger seems to work just fine.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >This is totally different from the scenario you just described.
            not him but not really, he did mention cpu intensive workloads, sigstopping a program to simulate this is accurate
            personally i think this is unacceptable behaviour regardless, like i sometimes sigstop a game to do something else just so it's not chewing up resources/creating heat/using power, then sigcont it when i want to go back to it, this i can do reliably on X, apparently this is just another "you don't need that" on wayland

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >he did mention cpu intensive workloads
            Give me an application or test I can run with a CPU intensive workload, not some fake scenario where you're suspending a program. I'll even run stable diffusion at the same time to max out the GPU.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >X11 is an absolutely abhorrent shitfest and a major reason behind Loonix's frickery
            Explain this.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Different refresh rates on different monitors for one. That's a basic functionality that will never be supported by X11. It's not even a Nvidia issue, it's purely an X issue

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Different refresh rates on different monitors for one
            >That's a basic functionality that will never be supported by X11
            X has never not supported that moron. Set your modelines for each monitor in xorg.conf.d or refresh rates in a DE monitor config.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That does not work. X11 does not have the capability in the slightest, it's well known

            i'm using two monitors in X right now that are set to different refresh rates

            You're the first person in the world to do that, bro. Congrats! Publish a paper

            How did you configure this? When I tried to use xrandr to set my refresh rates it locked each monitor to the lowest one provided.

            That's what's happening, the output is just wrong. X11 does not have the ability to do it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            i'm using two monitors in X right now that are set to different refresh rates

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How did you configure this? When I tried to use xrandr to set my refresh rates it locked each monitor to the lowest one provided.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            i literally just set each monitor to different modes, like you would if you were using one
            i just recently hooked up the left monitor, and i run;
            xrandr --output DVI-D-0 --mode 1280x1024 --rate 75 --left-of HDMI-A-0

            it left "HDMI-A-0" on the same mode it was
            one thing that might be relevant is that i do not use a compositor

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That does not work. X11 does not have the capability in the slightest, it's well known
            [...]
            You're the first person in the world to do that, bro. Congrats! Publish a paper
            [...]
            That's what's happening, the output is just wrong. X11 does not have the ability to do it

            what can i say?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That does not work. X11 does not have the capability in the slightest, it's well known
            [...]
            You're the first person in the world to do that, bro. Congrats! Publish a paper
            [...]
            That's what's happening, the output is just wrong. X11 does not have the ability to do it

            and before you go "well one must be tearing"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Why is it so easy to disprove the lies of Wayland gays?

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    But don't say it outloud, gayland shills can't handle the truth.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >And the fact that it's bloated.
    i hate wayland with passion but this is blatantly false

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >x.org - runs on a 486 with 4MB RAM
      >wayland - requires much more powerful computer, won't even run on most legacy systems
      Wayland is bloat

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >>x.org - runs on a 486 with 4MB RAM
        LMAO as if that's a good thing
        chapter 7
        https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
        >>won't even run on most legacy systems
        this isnt an issue with performance, if you write proper drivers it will run, dumbass

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It is an issue with performance, and Wayland offloads the driver issue to the OS. It pretends to be small but if you count the drivers (as one does with x.org) as a dependency it's huge and bloated far beyond x.org.

          Stupid Red Hat jeet.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It is an issue with performance
            shit performance is not bloat this is irrelevant i never claimed it runs well because i dont fricking use it because it runs like shit
            >Wayland offloads the driver issue to the OS
            wayland implementations run on the same drivers as Xorg you fricking cretin you are one stupid fricking Black person

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >shit performance is not bloat
            Yes it is. See all you need to do is look at what kind of CPU resources Wayland needs in total, including drivers etc. and simply compare that to what x.org needs. For example, 90% of x.org's codebase is drivers. But you only typically need ONE driver, not the entire mess of 'em.

            Wayland is HUGELY bloated.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            no it's not and i have explicitly stated that i think it performs worse than xorg you fricking moronic Black person aboriginal monkey ape baboon neanderthal luddite brainlet cancer patient reddit tourist go have a nice day you fricking imbecile niglet chimp

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >you fricking moronic Black person aboriginal monkey ape baboon neanderthal luddite brainlet cancer patient reddit tourist go have a nice day you fricking imbecile niglet chimp
            And with that you lost the little credibility you had.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >It's their PR wing that turned me off
    what schizo moron world do you homosexuals live in?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What PR wing? X is shilled 10 times more than wayland, without anyone actually wanting to maintain it, obviously.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >bloated.

    Other way around - "devs" (hard to call it serious development because Gayland is just a protocol, set of rules without actual substance) are refusing to implement important elements while flailing their neoveganas and screeching at everybody else for not comforting to their dogshit ideas.
    Wayland will never be ready, it's moronic and rotten to the core idea maintained by literal idiots. X.org may be a seasoned and aging thing but if Wayland is supposed to be an alternative for it and the future then Linux has no future.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland is dead.

    I hope nVidia single-handedly creates X12 and Xorg2 and forces them on everyone.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      this

      >I hope nVidia single-handedly creates X12 and Xorg2 and forces them on everyone.
      THIS

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you realize the left is the same as right, right? just because you don't use other X11 display servers doesn't change this fact.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        there's practically only Xorg as far as X servers go
        all DE's and WM's run atop Xorg, that's what everyone uses
        so no, X does not have internal display server competition

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        there are no other real-life use X11 display servers
        there is only Xorg which JustWorks(tm)
        (and special purpose Xnest etc, but they are not meant for stable desktop end-user usage)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The only other X server implementation I can think of is Xenocara, which is for the most part only used in OpenBSD and Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre. Unless some obscure X implementation becomes mainstream overnight there's nearly zero competition for Xorg.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Xenocara isn't another implementation. It's literally just a small set of patches on top of hw/xfree86 or 'modeset ddx'. This is by design. Xorg has an integration layer for the lower level OS bits. Just as Xwin, Xwayland, Xquartz, ... it's all just the same Xorg. All the business logic, drawing functions, scheduling, protocol implementation etc. is exactly the same.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This
      >I hope nVidia single-handedly creates X12 and Xorg2 and forces them on everyone
      Looking at today's software tendencies, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened.

      I just compiled my terminal emulator WITHOUT Wayland support. Get fricked trannies

      Based

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      bait used to be believable

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        it still is, though. prove it wrong. go ahead. try.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I only run one engine in my car and it's called hyprland, it does everything I need it to do and better than the X wm I used.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      remove xwayland and xclient and keep wlroots only and it's pretty clean

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I mean the fricked up part is that the decisions of GNOME and how they handled GTK means that applications like Ardour, which is the only decent FOSS daw, are going to be stuck on GTK 2 forever unless it's ported to something like Iced or Qt. For me, even if everything else moves to Wayland, I'll still be forced to have xwayland just for Ardour.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          (con't)
          Although last I remember they were actually trying to drop GTK entirely and just do everything custom. So maybe not.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't appreciate Wayland.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    chuds always whining about wayland

    it's over, you already lost, all big distros moving already

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >you already lost
      with Wayland we have all lost

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      all big distros also moved to
      >pulseaudio
      >consolekit
      >systemd
      >gtk3
      etc. There's always trendy new bad software. I'm on gentoo so I don't have to deal with this shit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >all big distros moving already

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You WILL move to Wayland, GOY

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why are anti wayland chuds always transphobic or antisemitic? And then they wine about getting censored.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >
      >Why are anti wayland chuds always transphobic or antisemitic? And then they wine about getting censored.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I wonder what it is about wayland that attracts these people. maybe it's just a correlation with intense crippling autism. Because you have to have extreme autism to want to rewrite an entire graphics stack that works.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I just compiled my terminal emulator WITHOUT Wayland support. Get fricked trannies

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >bloated
    How?

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the fact it is bloated
    >it's merely protocol left to implement and one of the key complaints about that protocol was that it is too minimal

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Id use it if it ever worked. It seems like the only people it works for have a single monitor and do nothing but browse the internet

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I hate Wayland too, but you can in fact check on the repos that Xorg is several times larger than Wayland. Doesn't matter anyway, if X was rewritten and modernized (that is, dropping obsolete shit from the codebase) it'd be several times better. Nevertheless, I use Xorg because I don't support gay marriage/sex.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      just because wayland is a piece of shit doesnt mean that X11 isn't, rewriting this diarrhea spaghetti wouldnt fix shit

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Propose your display server then

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          NeWS
          arcan
          Mir
          MGR

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >window's ability to position itself
    There's security reasons for this, hence it's not enabled by default.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's a terribly inefficient way to build an X server.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    How can it be bloated if it is just a spec sheet that weights 1kb only?

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Me too.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So far you guys have 1 application that uses this, and does it poorly. Then someone said wine, which means nothing, because wine only has a configuration GUI.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >wayland is just a protocol
    >now we're left waiting for GTK/GNOME devs to implement a continuously evolving protocol

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >no real argument
    so you made the thread to self-report yourself as a contrarian moron?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Observe, the "civility" of the wayland PR team:

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        nice try Black person, but i'm a wincuck.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          All wayland advocates don't actually use linux.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >wayland conspiracy
            take your pills schizo

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    we should write a new window system to replace that Wayland mess

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    let X11 go grampa

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      not until Wayland provides all the functionality and runs on old hardware

      wayland glows and a troony literally runs the project, lol

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I use hyprland, single thing I could do on X I can do using hyprland. There's never going to be a reason for me to go back to using the enormous pile of bloat X was.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Wayland is far more bloated than X.org, you can run X on a 486 with 4MB RAM.

          Wayland needs something faster than a Cray YMP. Plus, Wayland is heavily trooned.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Wayland is far more bloated than X.org, you can run X on a 486 with 4MB RAM.
            >X supports legacy hardware no one uses
            Yeah, that's why it's bloated. I don't care if it doesn't support hardware without graphic acceleration, I haven't owned a single device without graphic acceleration since 2001.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Nobody cares if YOU don't care. You're not relevant. The people who aren't running Wayland are the only relevant people.

            See what I did there? I did what you did but you're not going to like it. It's typical of Wayland shills.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You're not relevant.
            You're right, the majority of people are relevant, not you. Good thing the majority of people have been using graphic accelerated systems since 2006.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >wayland glows
        yeah X11 is clearly more secure, where the calculator app can see your browser

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Can you name just three instances where this has been a problem?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            are you for real?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You have thirty seconds.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >we should let keyloggers run rampant just because
            >we shouldn't secure obvious problems, we should just wait until we get fricked in the ass first

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            So name just three Linux keyloggers caught in the wild snooping between X.org windows. Just three.

            You have thirty seconds.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            see

            >we should let keyloggers run rampant just because
            >we shouldn't secure obvious problems, we should just wait until we get fricked in the ass first

            >we shouldn't secure obvious problems, we should just wait until we get fricked in the ass first
            You're the kind of person that would sit there and say
            "oh well our massive pipeline hasn't been hacked yet so it's not important to secure this 60 year old legacy code running everything"
            And then you get hit by ransomware

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            see

            not until Wayland provides all the functionality and runs on old hardware

            wayland glows and a troony literally runs the project, lol

            Nobody wants your shitty glowBlack personware, like with Rust and System D you have to sneak it in the back door, like a gay.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >sneak it in the back door
            Pretty sure systemd, wayland and hell red hat itself walked right in the front door.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            systemd-resolved

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Who cares about keyloggers in X, just only use root on a virtual console, it's easy. Restrict sudo to updating packages or something to lessen the times you have to leave X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hyprland works better for me than X. I don't care about what you think should or shouldn't happen or your uneducated opinion on GUI isolation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >uneducated opinion on GUI isolation
            unironically kys. windows and mac allow "keylogging" aka global hotkeys. restricting apps from listening to other app keystrokes is wayland brain damage. it doesn't even improve security.
            >apps now have to use a permission system to keylog
            yeah that's fricking great. malicious apps will just ship those permissions on and no one will be able to tell it's unusual because loose global permissions are so common with flatpaks. wayland's various "security" measures say nothing about how secure or non-malicious any app/lib in the chain of doing "safe" ipc actually is. this stuff kills or cripples old programs for no reason except a gnome like fixation on controlling what the user is allowed to run.

            if you don't trust an executable don't fricking run it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >windows and mac allow "keylogging" aka global hotkeys
            On Windows any application that wants to use global hotkeys must be run using Administrator. You cannot run OBS without elevated privileges and use global hotkeys, you can't do this with Dicksword either. I've tried.
            I can set global hotkeys in Hyprland.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >On Windows any application that wants to use global hotkeys must be run using Administrator
            I can find literally no evidence of this. the closest thing I can find is that windows blocks key listening of root apps by non-privileged apps.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I can find literally no evidence of this.
            https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/hotkeys-not-working-properly.69137/
            Literally one of the first replies:
            >Run OBS as admin.
            I also just found this out through this thread:
            >On a Mac, you have to give permission for OBS to listen to input devices (keyboard) for hotkeys to work. Go to System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Scroll down and select 'Input Monitoring' -> Enable for OBS.app (you may have to click the lock in the bottom left).

            So it seems you just made shit up. Both Windows and Mac require you to eiter elevate privileges or specifically allow input monitoring.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Here's one for Discord:
            https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/3kc72r/hotkeys_not_working_in_game_windows_10/

            see
            https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/hotkeys-not-working-properly.69137/page-2#post-524238
            this is an application specific issue. there is no restriction on monitoring inputs of same-privilege applications at an os level.
            >mac
            that is nothing like wayland's brain damage security model. wayland has pretend security by making everything go through approved dbus interfaces that have to be supported at both ends to listen for keys.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >this is an application specific issue. there is no restriction on monitoring inputs of same-privilege applications at an os level.
            It's an application specific issue that's specific to every single application that uses global hotkeys?
            >Even if I'm in OBS, with nothing else open - hot keys still aren't working.
            This is a completely different issue you just brought up. This is about his his hotkeys not working at all. There are many threads where people say you need to run it as admin in order to get global hotkeys to work.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It's an application specific issue that's specific to every single application that uses global hotkeys?
            It's a game specific issue. Feel free to show anything from microsoft stating that you need admin permission to keylog non-admin applications.
            >This is a completely different issue you just brought up
            I don't care his issue. I care about the fact that wayland's security is fake and gay even within the display server context. it does nothing to stop an actually malicious app even if it operates entirely within the bounds of wayland and flatpak "isolation", because they still permit keylogging they only hide it behind a vista uac tier prompt that 99% of users will never see because the app will ship with those permissions on.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Here's one for Discord:
            https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/3kc72r/hotkeys_not_working_in_game_windows_10/

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well, more specifically I can choose to pass any application I want input in Hyprland. This problem doesn't exist for me. I've done this for Ardour, OBS and Dicksword.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >muh keyloggers!
            How does Wayland prevent the malicious use of LD_PRELOAD?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >K-K-Keyloggers! My theoretical issue that is born from my poor understanding of Internet safety!

            Sorry to disappoint you but attaching safety wheels to a bike is not protecting child from being dumb frick that pushes themselves in front of a speeding car. If this is reasoning of Waylandgays why it's okay to push half-working, garbage shit like Wayland while we already have working solution (Xorg) then Wayland will never be a good choice. I don't even understand why this is a discussion, it's moronic point of view that only someone with mentality of an 8yo child would make.

            "Please frick over everyone else so I'll feel safe. And no I'll not learn to not click dumb shit on Xitter and Discoord"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >muh keyloggers!
            How does Wayland prevent the malicious use of LD_PRELOAD?

            Both of you as well

            Hyprland works better for me than X. I don't care about what you think should or shouldn't happen or your uneducated opinion on GUI isolation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I-It werks for meeee! MEEE! IT'S WORKS FOR MEEEE SO IT MUST WORK FOR EVERY ONE ELSE! I'M THE SPECIAL SUGAR FAIRY THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT CREATURE IN THE UNIVERSE!!!

            have a nice day. Actually don't bother continuing and just have a nice day. It's not even fricking funny how delusional are Wayland shills. You have no fricking arguments besides strawmanning about "muh safety" (which could be dealt with you dipshit learning about basics of how to use Internet) and anecdotal "it wurks for me" baby babble.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >IT MUST WORK FOR EVERY ONE ELSE!
            I didn't say this. This is some delusion you dreamed up. This is something you want me to say. That's too bad though, because I never said it.
            It works for me and that's what I care about. It does something for me X couldn't do, it's also a better experience in general than I had with X. I have more requirements for my display server/wm/compositor than most people do. I use more software than most users do. This isn't saying that it's going to work for everyone else, it's just stating a fact.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This is a filthy no coder take. Even the dirtiest, filthiest disgusting street shtiting Indian that just picked up Python and is writing xirs first calculator app uses keylogging in some form to do basic shit (you know like taking user input). If you have a malicious keylogger on your system you're already fricked and your display server won't save you. Only morons think using disgusting hacks to allow apps to move data between each other is an acceptable thing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >applications need to accept user input
            No way.
            Applications shouldn't be able to read user input being sent to other applications.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I agree. I think we should go one step further and have 1 application per system (of course with no internet connection and the app being containerized). That way we can ensure no user data is leaked with or without their permission.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Careful, you're entering dangerously based territory.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This.
          >more secure
          >smaller codebase
          >just werks on AMD
          >still hated
          I'm convinced this thread is just one big meme caused by some ecelebs hot anti-wayland take on israelitetube

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >smaller codebase
            Big meme.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you're underselling it, collabora is an absolute hive of trannies.

        >wayland glows
        yeah X11 is clearly more secure, where the calculator app can see your browser

        Calculator can delete all the files in in your home folder moron. if you have untrusted software running bareback in linux, you are simply fricked. No amount of breaking screengrab software and breaking copy-paste fixes that.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Calculator can delete all the files in in your home folder moron
          yeah but if glowies did that to you you'd kinda figure out something up. instead of them recording your SD gens. you utter waste of pixels

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >figure out something up
            After the damage has already been done. Doing something malicious like that isn't even the worst of your problems in this scenario, having some bad actor have access to every single keystroke you make and being able to see data from every other process to harvest is far worse.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Calculator can delete all the files in in your home folder moron.
          that's literally one of the reasons why permission systems exist and apps are sandboxed.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Are you really gonna sandbox fricking calculator? what a stupid argument. my calculator is written by the same morons who wrote my display manager. You don't need to sandbox every goddamn piece of software on your computer. that makes a shit ass experience.

            but wayland trannies don't think about that when they scream security as they break copy paste. If you're running sketchy software, run it in a VM like someone who isn't a moron.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >they break copy paste
            Works just fine for me.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            it took wayland trannies 12 years to fix copy paste. but they managed to get that shit as the default on every distro years and years earlier while it was still broken.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >as the default on every distro
            Literally no distro I've used since 2010 had it as the default until recently. You had to explicitly select wayland to run KDE and GNOME under, that only changed very recently.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            debian and rhel both defaulted to wayland by like 2016 dawg.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Those are the only distros I haven't used surprisingly (debian not since '07). I was under the impression you could install whatever environment you wanted using Debian.
            >RHEL
            Do people really do anything with RHEL systems besides ssh into them and run everything inside a tty session? I'd personally consider both X and Wayland completely pointless on RHEL.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, simulation and virtual production to name two. but any company that uses loonix is gonna use rhel because muh certification, and like it or not most enterprise programmers would die if they only had ssh.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I always figured the majority of simulation was still done via Windows, at least that's what the engineers had to use back when I worked at a construction tech company.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            sorry I meant more like milsim, that stuff's loonix. saves a good amount of the BOM to not have to pay Bill Gates $100 for every computer in the cluster, and be able to boot all the computers off the same network drive.

            and of course not having a bunch of individual windings installs makes system maintenance a lot easier.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >sandboxing a calculator
            the ABSOLUTE state

            >nooo I'm scared of the calculator, I need protection from it
            TAKE YOUR MEDS

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the calculator was a fricking random example. your discord app or whatever the frick you run will have free access to everything that is on your fricking screens you utter imbecile.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >sandboxing everything
            brain damage.
            >I don't trust X in my system
            so why are you running it

            the only usecase of imposed sandboxing is browsers and most everything with a browser engines requires such loose permissions, that's it impossible to effectively sandbox it so you're still relying on trust.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ask xtards to provide examples for why a "critical feature" is important
    >they can list a single app
    People like you are why X turned into such a clusterfrick in the first place.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Stop listening to the voices.

      https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Thats cool and all, still using Wayland

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    For me, it's the fact that it's literally unusable with high-DPI mice.
    >accidentally move the mouse too fast
    >shit randomly crashes
    This is because if the event queue fills up, the server kills the connection, crashing the application. Wayland wienersuckers defend this inherently unstable design, because "uI tHrEaDs ShOuLdN't BlOcK," and anyone who runs any CPU-intensive task in the background can go frick themselves.
    Xorg doesn't have this problem, btw.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah I just cranked all of the rates to max and wildly waved my mouse around, nothing happened.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/443

        first search engine result

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I refuse to use Wayland as long as mouse stuttering on high load is an issue. I am amazed that such a clear regression is never addressed, let alone that Wayland can't into hardware layers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >go to issues, check latest one...hmm mouse ok
        >guise my *checks gitlab issue again* high dpi mouse isn't working
        homosexuals. homosexuals everywhere

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Meds.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > uhm wayland is basically tcp and tcp has timeouts
    > so you shouldn't expect debuggers to work
    what do you think the water supply at collabora is contaminated with? same stuff turning the frogs gay perhaps.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Give me an example of a debugger where this is an existing problem so I can see it for myself.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        how about you open the fricking bug reports and read the repro steps yourself troony? the wayland devs in those bug reports acknowledged the crashes. they just insist they aren't big problems.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >run wayland program in any debugger
        >hit a breakpoint, or pause manually
        >move the mouse over the paused window a bunch
        >resume the program
        >instant crash

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Try reading the post again

          Give me an example of a debugger where this is an existing problem so I can see it for myself.

          >Give me an example of a debugger where this is an existing problem so I can see it for myself.

          how about you open the fricking bug reports and read the repro steps yourself troony? the wayland devs in those bug reports acknowledged the crashes. they just insist they aren't big problems.

          You're the one making the claim that this has a real-world impact. It's not my job to validate your own claim. Give me a working example.

          i provided one [...]
          i sometimes intentionally stop a program that otherwise can't be told to stop within itself, to temporarily prevent it using resources
          this you can test yourself, just;
          kill -STOP <program>
          anything you like, after however long you like, run;
          kill -CONT <program>
          and it should resume

          Which game are you suspending?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >TrY rEaDiNg ThE pOsT aGaIn
            You're either stupid or trolling, the post you replied to gave you the exact example you're asking for.

            >ask xtards for practical examples of the problems they're expressing are "critical", giving them a chance to prove its legitimacy
            >instead of providing any examples (and even providing wrong ones like wine virtual desktop) they continually try to sidestep providing any real evidence
            You're no better than the Wayland devs, two sides of the same coin.

            >y-you don't need debuggers!
            >only boomers care about stability
            No wonder Wayland is such a trainwreck, if this is how the average Waytroony feels.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >gave you the exact example you're asking for.
            No, I asked you for a debugger where I can see this bug in action. You didn't provide a debugger, you just expressed the hypothetical situation. You're just sidestepping trying to provide a real example.
            I'll ask you again. Give me an example of a debugger where I can see this in action.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It happens in QtCreator, so you can stop moving the goalposts now you stupid fricking homosexual.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >moving goalposts
            Literally never moved a single goalpost. I asked you for an example and you tried to shy away from it like 10 times. You proposed a situation where the mouse will cause programs to crash under heavy loads, then gave me a completely different hypothetical about debuggers. You're the only dishonest homosexual here.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > refuses to read bug reports where reporters say which programs crashed
            > pausing a graphical program in a debugger is a "hypothetical"
            hypothetically speaking, how do trannies like you debug graphics bugs? Use Windows? MacOS?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >debug graphics bugs?
            Generally I don't need to pause the execution of a graphical application in order to do that. I also don't need to have the program in focus, either.

            >schizophrenic
            Actually a troony just went in and deleted a bunch of old drivers not needed for Wayland from the X.org tree, proving the Wayland backdoor "theory" to be true.

            >backdoor theory
            Instead of throwing out some schizophrenic shit like this just call it for what it is, someone being a fricking twat.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Generally I don't need to pause the execution of a graphical application in order to do that.
            So you literally don't debug, got it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Pausing execution =/= debugging, only a moron would say that. You can still do it too.
            >reproduce graphical bug
            >pause
            >go to debugger, find problem
            >resume
            Putting your mouse focus over a graphical application while its execution is paused isn't going to do anything.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            AH! So the troony uses printf "debugging"! yeah if you ever start writing real software you'll know that's untenable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I can't figure out how to set up debugging in vi and printf debugging works for me anyway

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            read

            Pausing execution =/= debugging, only a moron would say that. You can still do it too.
            >reproduce graphical bug
            >pause
            >go to debugger, find problem
            >resume
            Putting your mouse focus over a graphical application while its execution is paused isn't going to do anything.

            >real software
            I developed a node-based analysis engine used in oil & gas with C++ and qt, I've written parts of software used in factory tooling in C, I've developed my own game and sold it, I've also created a few open-source virtual audio effects among many other things in the 20 years I've been a software developer.

            >hit breakpoint
            >go to debugger, find problem
            >resume
            >the program crashes because you where still moving the mouse when the breakpoint triggered
            >but it's completely fine and even expected, because moving the mouse over a graphical application while its execution is paused isn't going to do anything.
            (this is what wayland shills actually believe)

            >the program crashes because you where still moving the mouse when the breakpoint triggered
            It would only crash on resuming, you can't even get your own hypothetical right, embarassing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It would only crash on resuming, you can't even get your own hypothetical right, embarassing.
            You're so butthurt you don't even bother reading the posts you're replying to.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it would only crash on resuming
            >this is fine
            Stop lying, webdev. pausing and resuming programs happens ALL THE TIME in game development. The debugger crashing on resume is completely unacceptable. Stay the frick in your own lane, don't comment on graphics technologies until you've walked the walk you goddamn larper.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >pausing and resuming programs happens ALL THE TIME in game development
            It sure does, but amazingly I haven't run into this issue using Godot. When I used Unity I still used X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >ever floating the idea that crashing on resume is ever acceptable
            dude, putting aside the meme engine choices, you're not a game programmer. it's not even possible to setup data breakpoints on dynamically allocated memory addresses if you can't resume without a crash. accept your L, larper

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I didn't say it was acceptable. Indeed it's a problem that should be solved.
            >if you can't resume without a crash.
            Again, I've never run into this issue. The only time I've seen it in action is when someone recommended qtcreator, which I've never used before.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            and if you read the bug reports instead of moving goalposts and being a homosexual, you'd see that the wayland devs don't give a flying frick about fixing it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Wayland devs didn't give a frick about tearing support either but it happened anyway.
            >shifting goalposts
            I haven't shifted goalposts at all, just debated the severity of the issue you raised. Shifting goalposts would be something like:
            >well, this hypothetical situation where the CPU is under heavy load means that moving the mouse cursor will crash applications
            which turned into
            >pausing the execution of a GUI application completely and then moving the cursor over it causes the application to crash
            You still need to validate the first claim.
            >read bug reports
            It's not my job to validate your claims or provide references to them, that's your job.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The bug reports were linked to you, larper. you didn't have to go find references for the claims, you just had to click on the links and read. literally the first paragraph of the first response from a wayland developer to the first ticket makes it clear that wayland is never gonna fix it. which, I screencapped. So you didn't even have to stop using IQfy for 30 seconds, you could have just read the text in that image.

            if you were to ever bother reading, you'd know the bug report threads are filled with examples of low power laptops crashing randomly and so on, stalls from IO crashing the app, and so on.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The devs also had no intention of ever providing tearing support, but they did it anyways. At the end of the day they are not beholden to only themselves.
            >you could have just read the text in that image
            The text in the image didn't provide what I asked for, which was an example where I could see the bug in action myself. We've been over this, stop being melodramatic.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >hit breakpoint
            >go to debugger, find problem
            >resume
            >the program crashes because you where still moving the mouse when the breakpoint triggered
            >but it's completely fine and even expected, because moving the mouse over a graphical application while its execution is paused isn't going to do anything.
            (this is what wayland shills actually believe)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >how do trannies like you debug graphics bugs?
            If it became an annoyance I would just run an X session on another tty and debug it there. I'm neither for or against either display server, I use what works for me. So far wayland works better, it's that shrimple.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >y-you can't expect that to work, it'll break our protocol
      literally every other OS has a display system that can handle this, even windows (ever had a program fade out towards white, then come back? that's a UI thread hang up, and wayland would kill anything that does that)
      if they can't figure out a way to handle arbitrary hang ups, then it's the protocol that needs fixing

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ask xtards for practical examples of the problems they're expressing are "critical", giving them a chance to prove its legitimacy
    >instead of providing any examples (and even providing wrong ones like wine virtual desktop) they continually try to sidestep providing any real evidence
    You're no better than the Wayland devs, two sides of the same coin.

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand the security vulnerability aspect. Most don't affect home users unless they're stupid enough to run something malicious, which is rare. Most servers & multi-user systems directly connected to the internet don't even run X probably.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Wayland doesn't even prevent keylogging, since LD_PRELOAD exists.
      The whole premise is security theater.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >run something malicious,
      define malicious? what if some discord shit app sends "technical telemetry" with screenshots of your full desktop? or any homosexualed app today

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I wouldn't know, I don't run such software. It's probably not even in the repos since I don't have the non-free licenses accepted.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >which is rare
      Discord and Steam seem pretty popular though!

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yeah and it doesn't even need to stream your shit on some external server. today with AI assisted detection it can just wait until you write something interesting, look at something or any other scenario.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the problem is your use of proprietary software.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >bloated
    Go read wikipedia again

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Call me when I can run Wayland on a 486 or an old Vax machine.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Well, actually, that's not true, there's what, 4 or 5 of you that have done that now? I thought xtards were supposed to be forthright truth-speakers, but you've shown me you're no better than the bureaucrats running Wayland.

        >heh, I have an extreme edge case where a display server is needed on a system that has no graphical acceleration, that'll show those waylanders
        You're really doing a lot to quell the perspective other people have of you being schizophrenic.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >schizophrenic
          Actually a troony just went in and deleted a bunch of old drivers not needed for Wayland from the X.org tree, proving the Wayland backdoor "theory" to be true.

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I wish the auto-rotate worked. It only does landscape and 90ccw on my laptop.

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So, 174 posts in and there's been a proper example given for 1 real issue. Pausing execution in some debuggers will cause a GUI to crash if the cursor is moved over the window (I will develop a workaround for this until the Wayland devs provide a proper solution themselves).
    We have one fake problem, where applications need to be capable of positioning their own surfaces. This didn't even work well on X when tested with the only example given, emacs. Any further attempt to ask for more examples was met with dishonesty and cowardice.
    We have one claim that is fake, using a mouse with a high dpi will not crash applications. The post was shifted from just using a hi dpi mouse, to using a hi dpi mouse in scenarios where the CPU is under heavy load, to using a hi dpi mouse when execution is paused in an application.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >i am incapable of reproducing a bug, therefore you're lying
      >triggering the same exact bug by a different mechanism doesn't count
      Why are waytroons like this?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I didn't say you were a liar, I asked you to provide a practical example where the bug could be reproduced.
        It's funny you're calling someone else a troon. One of the biggest parts of what represents troonyism is being a melodramatic lunatic who can't control their emotions.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >I didn't say you were a liar
          If you didn't post

          So, 174 posts in and there's been a proper example given for 1 real issue. Pausing execution in some debuggers will cause a GUI to crash if the cursor is moved over the window (I will develop a workaround for this until the Wayland devs provide a proper solution themselves).
          We have one fake problem, where applications need to be capable of positioning their own surfaces. This didn't even work well on X when tested with the only example given, emacs. Any further attempt to ask for more examples was met with dishonesty and cowardice.
          We have one claim that is fake, using a mouse with a high dpi will not crash applications. The post was shifted from just using a hi dpi mouse, to using a hi dpi mouse in scenarios where the CPU is under heavy load, to using a hi dpi mouse when execution is paused in an application.

          , then why bother replying?
          >I asked you to provide a practical example where the bug could be reproduced
          And when I provided a practical example that always works, you dismissed it as irrelevant, even though it's the same fricking bug.
          >One of the biggest parts of what represents troonyism is being a melodramatic lunatic who can't control their emotions.
          Hence why being a wayland shill is a troon mindset.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Nothing in that post called you a liar, unless you were the person who said Wine couldn't position its layer surfaces in a virtual desktop. You're so upset you're taking everything as if it's a personal attack against you, classic troon mindset.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I didn't call you a liar! I only said your claim was fake.
            And I suppose

            >moving goalposts
            Literally never moved a single goalpost. I asked you for an example and you tried to shy away from it like 10 times. You proposed a situation where the mouse will cause programs to crash under heavy loads, then gave me a completely different hypothetical about debuggers. You're the only dishonest homosexual here.

            wasn't you, either, was it?
            >classic troon mindset.
            Projection doesn't win arguments.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Oh, that was also you? Then you're definitely a liar. Saying that using a hi dpi mouse will cause programs to crash and then backstepping to stuff 3 more qualifiers into the hypothetical is 100% dishonest.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            So you also think the Lutris devs are lying, just because you're too inept to reproduce a bug?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, just you. You stated something and then had to step back to provide more qualifiers in order to maintain your footing. You've also tried to put words into my mouth several times. Both of these are dishonest troon behaviors, classic argumentation tactics they use all the time. There's no projection in what I'm calling you out for, if you don't want to be a troon, stop being a troon, it's that shrimple.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >No, just you.
            Pants on fire.
            https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/443
            >I maintain Lutris, which is written in Python and uses PyGObject. I have also recently switched to Wayland permanently and purchased a high DPI Razer gaming mouse. With those 2 factors combined, I started experiencing frequent crashes in Lutris while handling my library of ~1400 games.
            >After investigation, the cause of those crashes became pretty clear. Any blocking task run in the main thread could cause the application to crash. Not moving the mouse at all would prevent a crash. Moving the mouse really fast during a background operation would guarantee a crash.
            >Moving the mouse really fast during a background operation would guarantee a crash.
            >Moving the mouse really fast during a background operation would guarantee a crash.
            >Moving the mouse really fast during a background operation would guarantee a crash.
            >Moving the mouse really fast during a background operation would guarantee a crash.

            The original post implied that using a hi dpi mouse will cause applications to crash if you moved the mouse too quickly. All you're doing is further reinforcing your dishonesty by trying to state that a wild extrapolation should have been implied.

            >The original post implied that using a hi dpi mouse will cause applications to crash if you moved the mouse too quickly
            Because it objectively does, as shown in the above issue. Facts don't care about your feelings.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The qualifications you linked in that issue for the crash are not the same as just using a hi dpi mouse. You lied through misrepresenting what would happen, then backstepped to provide more qualifications. This is dishonest. If you want to be that kind of person, that's up to you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >using a high-DPI mouse and switching to Wayland isn't the same thing as just using a high-DPI mouse
            Correct for once. This is why normal people don't want to touch Wayland, because high-DPI mice work in Xorg but not Wayland.
            >You lied through misrepresenting what would happen, then backstepped to provide more qualifications
            You have yet to point out a single lie.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >using a hi dpi mouse will cause a crash
            Is not the same as
            >using a hi dpi mouse will cause a crash with these qualifiers
            The first statement implies that, under any circumstance, moving the mouse too quickly in Wayland will cause applications to crash. In order for the application to crash there are qualifications that must be held first before that crash happens. You lied through misrepresentation.

            [...]
            stop being hysterical, accept that you're wrong and move on. no, it's not 'dishonest' to say that something doesn't always happen.

            it is dishonest however to continue in delusion despite evidence to the contrary. like, idk how fricking egotistical you have to be to think something isn't real unless you personally think it. how much of a solipsist are you?

            It's delusional and dishonest to deny that you misrepresented the situation in which applications crash. You clearly had to apply more qualifiers after your statement.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not the same person as him, but hysterical egomaniac, please understand that race conditions triggering are statistically inevitable in unsound code. if you don't understand it, you can ask instead of being hysterical and calling everyone liars.

            it's rich that the same sorts of mental defectives who advocate so hard for muh memory safety refuse to fix blatant race conditions, insisting it's everyone else's problem.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it's rich that the same sorts of mental defectives who advocate so hard for muh memory safety refuse to fix blatant race conditions, insisting it's everyone else's problem.
            To be fair, wayland shills and rust evangelists are two separate cancers.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it's rich that the same sorts of mental defectives who advocate so hard for muh memory safety refuse to fix blatant race conditions, insisting it's everyone else's problem.
            Rust is something else entirely. It's something banal but harmless hyped up by redditors and HN users (redditors) as the Second Coming, Wayland is actively harmful to the ecosystem it's been shoehorned into.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never said it wasn't inevitable. You're just putting words into mouth.

            Literally my first post about it mentioned high CPU workloads. [...]
            You've spent the entire time seething over some argument you hallucinated.

            That's my bad then, I retract my statement about you being dishonest.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Literally my first post about it mentioned high CPU workloads.

            For me, it's the fact that it's literally unusable with high-DPI mice.
            >accidentally move the mouse too fast
            >shit randomly crashes
            This is because if the event queue fills up, the server kills the connection, crashing the application. Wayland wienersuckers defend this inherently unstable design, because "uI tHrEaDs ShOuLdN't BlOcK," and anyone who runs any CPU-intensive task in the background can go frick themselves.
            Xorg doesn't have this problem, btw.

            You've spent the entire time seething over some argument you hallucinated.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Again, you're just reinforcing the dishonesty. Saying that other people should interpret your statements using your own qualifications is exactly something that a troony would do. They go even further and expect people to interpret their whole identity using their own made-up qualifications. If you want to continue being something you hate, go ahead.

            stop being hysterical, accept that you're wrong and move on. no, it's not 'dishonest' to say that something doesn't always happen.

            it is dishonest however to continue in delusion despite evidence to the contrary. like, idk how fricking egotistical you have to be to think something isn't real unless you personally think it. how much of a solipsist are you?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >egotistical you have to be
            I'm not the one trying to defend a misrepresentation and then putting a bunch of words into someone else's mouth. I never said that they weren't a problem, I asked for an example and then argued the severity. When you (again) tried to put words into mouth, I refuted that and stated that it is a problem and it should be solved.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            hmm, I thought you were two different posters. I thought there was webdev wayland shill (

            Wayland devs didn't give a frick about tearing support either but it happened anyway.
            >shifting goalposts
            I haven't shifted goalposts at all, just debated the severity of the issue you raised. Shifting goalposts would be something like:
            >well, this hypothetical situation where the CPU is under heavy load means that moving the mouse cursor will crash applications
            which turned into
            >pausing the execution of a GUI application completely and then moving the cursor over it causes the application to crash
            You still need to validate the first claim.
            >read bug reports
            It's not my job to validate your claims or provide references to them, that's your job.

            ) and troony wayland shill (

            So, 174 posts in and there's been a proper example given for 1 real issue. Pausing execution in some debuggers will cause a GUI to crash if the cursor is moved over the window (I will develop a workaround for this until the Wayland devs provide a proper solution themselves).
            We have one fake problem, where applications need to be capable of positioning their own surfaces. This didn't even work well on X when tested with the only example given, emacs. Any further attempt to ask for more examples was met with dishonesty and cowardice.
            We have one claim that is fake, using a mouse with a high dpi will not crash applications. The post was shifted from just using a hi dpi mouse, to using a hi dpi mouse in scenarios where the CPU is under heavy load, to using a hi dpi mouse when execution is paused in an application.

            ). curious. a combined webdev-troony wayland shill.

            >it's rich that the same sorts of mental defectives who advocate so hard for muh memory safety refuse to fix blatant race conditions, insisting it's everyone else's problem.
            To be fair, wayland shills and rust evangelists are two separate cancers.

            tbh more overlap than you'd think, huge overlap between rustaceans and waylanders.

            the uk company collabora is not only teeming with trannies, but a huge part of wayland dev and is also leading the charge on rust in the kernel.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I haven't touched web dev 9 years. Making baseless accusations is just another part of troonyism.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >i haven't touched web dev in 9 years
            >your accusation is baseless!
            hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Clearly I'm not a web dev if I haven't developed web software in nearly a decade. 90% of my work has been in C++ for the past 8 years, with a 1 year vacation because the company I worked for pushed me into extreme burnout.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It really is, the ecosystem for webshit has changed so drastically over the past decade that if I got into it again I would be completely out of scope and have to learn 6 new frameworks and 30 or 40 new libraries.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You say you're not a webdev but you've got the background and you've got that webdev mindset of using the latest and greatest poop frameworks.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I use hyprland because it does what I want better than awesome did on X11, to top it off its got a great plugin system. I base the usage of all my software on how it fits my specific workflow, I don't give a frick about whether or not some guy with a 486 or a laptop from 2006 can't run it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I haven't touched web dev 9 years.
            That's like saying "it's been 9 years since I barebacked that gay with AIDS".

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Everyone has to start somewhere, I was offered a bag and I took it. Sorry I wasn't born in the 80s and then came out of university when everyone and their mum was offering C++ and Java jobs.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >huge overlap between rustaceans and waylanders
            don't forgot flatpakers. wayland is a huge part of why flatpak (and xdg portals) exist because when you kill IPC then you need something that can designate a "safe" (RH approved) mechanism for any two arbitary apps to interact.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >the race condition that's obviously dependent on processor speed, scheduling, cpu etc didn't happen
            >bug isn't real, can't reproduce
            ahh, trannies. does estrogen inhibit the ability to think about threading or something? I wonder if that's why rust's async is so shit.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The original post implied that using a hi dpi mouse will cause applications to crash if you moved the mouse too quickly. All you're doing is further reinforcing your dishonesty by trying to state that a wild extrapolation should have been implied.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm sorry that you don't understand parallel programming. I figured someone in a thread about a low level OS component should understand scheduler fairness and whatnot.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            All you're doing is reinforcing the dishonesty. No one is going to go through wild extrapolation to find out exactly what you mean when you make a generalized statement. Instead of trying to be a coward and applying several more qualifiers to how other people should inference your statements, just admit it was wrong.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if the even queue fills up, wayland kills the connection
            >a classic race condition
            >unreasonable to expect this to exasperated by factors like mouse polling rate, cpu speed, system load
            don't shill for a low level technology if you don't know the basics. read a book, your opinion isn't valuable because you're uneducated.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Again, you're just reinforcing the dishonesty. Saying that other people should interpret your statements using your own qualifications is exactly something that a troony would do. They go even further and expect people to interpret their whole identity using their own made-up qualifications. If you want to continue being something you hate, go ahead.

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >nobody wants gayland
    >the maintainers of X.org decided to go against the Freedesktop charter and stop developing it over a decade ago, defrauding the donors
    Sorry, not using the nu-troony Wayland.

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >sandboxing
    >security
    >permissions
    >memes
    Who cares about this, the only thing that matters is unixporn and that's why wayland is going to win.

  37. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Flatpaks, snaps, and their ilk aren't going to save the linux desktop
      Wayland and X aren't going to save the linux desktop
      No meme technology trying to fix these issues is ever going to do anything to bring about the yotld
      The only thing that's going to bring the yotld is open-source productivity tools (Office suites, vector graphic editors, raster editors, digital audio workstations, engineering software) becoming better. Normal people don't give a shit about whether something is a flatpak or a package, they don't give a shit about whether their display server is X or Wayland. They care about pretty much anything else. Their experience is going to be the same regardless of what they use, it's easy enough (and has always been) to provide a good core desktop experience. The biggest Problem with developers in our ecosystem is that they're all targeting the wrong problems. Their understanding of the problem space is so laughably disconnected from reality it's not funny, it's just sad.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        YOTLD is a pipe dream for reasons out of freetards' control, but I digress. Wayland does, in fact, address real problems. It just addresses them in such an embarrassingly poor fashion that it causes far more problems than it solves, and the problems it does manage to solve adequately are relatively minor compared to the problems it creates. It is not merely a mass adoption barrier, it is an active detriment to the people who already use Linux.
        At least once a year, I fiddle around with Wayland out of boredom, and the result is always the same: it's a colossal buggy mess, and even when you do manage to tard-wrangle it into something more-or-less functional, it offers a strictly inferior experience unless you're one of the ten people on Earth who use desktop Linux and care about multi-monitor VRR. It is gimped by design because it's maintained by GNOME-brained "people" who are genetically incapable of comprehending their own fallibility, and will only fix their shit if you dogpile them about it for years.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >>all of you

        Just. Get. A. Mac.

        Seriously.

        It's Unix, but not open sores. Best of both worlds.

        I used to be like you all. Battling with incompatibility issues, scrolling through package lists, staring at white-on-black monospaced text all day, debugging drivers, instead of actually getting shit done.

        On the most basic level, computers are machines that are designed to make you more productive. That is literally their function to us as humans. So if they end up wasting your time instead, they are not fulfilling their basic function.

        I dare you to go to Apple's website, and honestly consider how much better your life could be with one of these Apple Silicon laptops. You will think of all the "benefits" of FOSS. Images of Stallman and co will appear in your head. But you need to fight it, and get over your silly obsessions with abstract ideas like "computing freedom", which will never be taken seriously by the vast majority of people, and instead shift your focus towards "getting a computer that accelerates productivity". If you focus on this one aspect, and nothing else (no bullshit philosophy stuff), you will be doing yourself a big favor.

        These machines aren't just beautiful, they're also extremely powerful and one hell of a deal for the price: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

        If you're going to stick with Troonix for some reason, at least listen to this man. They're the only rational person I've seen in this entire thread so far.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >These machines aren't just beautiful, they're also extremely powerful and one hell of a deal for the price: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/
          I was gonna say your bait is embarrassingly obvious, but this is the dumbest blue board on 4chins, so enjoy your (You)s regardless.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          no

  38. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >gayland
    hahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaaahahahaha

  39. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    inferenced*
    And again, it's just more melodrama from you, which is the basis for troonyism. Let me know when you're ready to cut off your dick, you both seem very close to doing so considering how much you act like them.

  40. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >things are so grim for wayland that zamundaa is now outright lying about the X session
    big oof

  41. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Does it run xclip yet
    >no
    I don't care, I'm not using gayland.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Use wl-clipboard, make an alias to xclip if you want.
      https://arewewaylandyet.com/

  42. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    wf-recorder stopped working last few days, what habbened? zwlr_screencopy_frame_v1@5: error 1: invalid buffer format

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      ask the dev?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I don't even know which fricking one. hyprland, wf-recorder, ffmpeg, wayland, nvidia, arch?
        it does make a video capture but screen is frozen on first frame, audio works in resulting file.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          me
          and if I use it with slurp then kill command doesn't work and it hangs in memory, have to sigkill it, sigterm doesn't work. if I don't use it with slurp it captures whole screen but frozen on first frame.

  43. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > "It's just a protocol bro"
    incompatibility by design nice.
    > It only works on KDE or GNOME
    "You don't need to use what you want to use"
    > Security Concern
    "Not a real problem"
    > Lacking simple capabilities
    "You don't need that"
    > Shitty XML with OOP like structures protocol resulting in race conditions by design
    > Crappy "Security" Model
    > Increases attack surface doing many runs on your data
    It's like X crippled (repeating the same mistakes), I dunno who thought this was a good idea.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > Lacking simple capabilities
      Everything I could do on X I can do in Hyprland. I use Godot, LibreOffice, Ardour, Gimp, Krita, Inkscape, Kdenlive, Emacs and Firefox on a daily basis. I also play games with RetroArch, Steam and use Bottles (also Lutris to support friends). I doubt there's many people that use as much of the open-source ecosystem as I do on the same kind of basis. Nothing in this thread has ever practically limited me in any way.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Everything I could do on X I can do in Hyprland
        Everything you can do in hyprland you can also do in X
        >16 years to get back to where we started

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          New good, old bad
          You WILL updoot
          You WILL be happy

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I always thought that update is the same as upgrade but Wayland's situation cleared it for me because it's an update that is definitive downgrade.

            >M-M-Muh safety.
            If one is a moron clicking on "Hot troony mommies in your neighborhood" or Discord bots trying to make them test some new game then no amount of safety will protect them. They can put their PC into the safe and throw the safe into the bottom of Mariana trench and their stupidity still will turn it into safety issue.

            I don't think that compromising everybody's convenience and usage of Linux via Wayland because of few morons too stupid to understand rules of Internet safety should be valid.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hyprland has been more convenient for me than any X wm ever could be. No more fiddling with a bunch of esoteric configuration just to get a good, working experience. Shit just works, which is incredible, it's the first time anything has ever "just worked" completely for me in the 17 years I've been using Linux as a daily driver.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            "For me!!! It worked for meee!!!" - Okay but majority still has issue with Wayland and most people don't care about your minimalist riced desktop in transgender colors that you post every week on r/unixporn and actually want to do shit.
            Drivers support for NVida is basically non-existing, the frickery that is

            Wayland is dead.

            I hope nVidia single-handedly creates X12 and Xorg2 and forces them on everyone.

            makes finding a working applications unnecessary hassle, developers are frickwits with bloated ego that refuse to do their job and instead people are forced to run X compatibility layers and other bs on top of Wayland.
            Wayland needs X to its shit properly, not other way around. It's a joke, running Wayland is just running X on top of a fricking bloat shitware.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I use Godot, LibreOffice, Ardour, Gimp, Krita, Inkscape, Kdenlive, Emacs and Firefox on a daily basis. I also play games with RetroArch, Steam and use Bottles (also Lutris to support friends).
            And I'll add Evolution to that list, among many other apps. I highly doubt any of those people do more than I do.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            But I won't disagree that Nvidia support is hot garbage. If I were not using an RX 7600 I would still be using X unquestionably. It's a sad state of affairs, but that is being worked on.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Drivers support for NVida is basically non-existing
            ah shut the frick up. it's not ideal but shit pretty much works. hardware encoding/decoding in ffmpeg, 3d hardware acceleration in qemu vm, and firefox can do hardware decoding

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            and mpv works with nvdec

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I-I-It's awwmost works!

            Just as you're almost a woman. With accent on almost.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            if chromium and electron get their shit together I'm not complaining. cuda works for sd/llm

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          In Hyprland I don't have to kill composition and can force a full-screen application to tear on a per-application basis. In X with picom the only way for this to happen was to disable vsync entirely. picom itself has terrible performance problems as well. Capturing windows for my stream in X is also a nightmare. Window not visible on the screen? No window on the stream. In Hyprland if I move a window to a different workspace it still renders on stream. This was huge for me.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >In Hyprland I don't have to kill composition and can force a full-screen application to tear on a per-application basis
            Okay so? Don't use tearfree or a compositor and use application level vsync or for games, use dxvk/mangohud/gamescope to enforce it.
            >Capturing windows for my stream in X is also a nightmare. Window not visible on the screen? No window on the stream. In Hyprland if I move a window to a different workspace it still renders on stream
            Why would you want to capture something not on the main monitor/workspace?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >use application level vsync or for games, use dxvk/mangohud/gamescope to enforce it.
            No, anon it's the opposite, I _want_ the game to tear. I don't want _everything else_ to tear.
            >Why would you want to capture something not on the main monitor/workspace?
            If I'm running a game on my main monitor I want to be able to swap to a different workspace and handle something there, then go back. When I used X I had a standby scene for this, but it was a poor solution, swapping back and forth quickly would just flash the standby. No standby meant you just saw a black screen or whatever background I decided to put under it. I also sometimes have terminals open that I want to be visible even if I move them to a different workspace temporarily. Dealing with this was a huge hassle in X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >, I _want_ the game to tear.
            Then use a compositor that allows per-app tearing?
            >I don't want _everything else_ to tear.
            What is "everything else"? I've been using xorg without tearfree for a few weeks and nothing is tearing. Anything that could is enforcing it's own vsync.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Then use a compositor that allows per-app tearing?
            Such as? I'm not going to use some shit-show like KDE or GNOME over a good wm like hyprland or awesome. Picom to my knowledge is the only independent compositor available for X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't understand your problem. Are you implying those compositors are DE specific? Because even mutter's dependencies are relatively inoffensive on my KDE setup

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >geoclue
            What the frick.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah wayland uses geolocation so redhat can keep tabs on you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's actually pretty funny that gnome lets you build without (x)wayland while kwin forces you to.

            Gnome devs love that shit since they're macgays that want auto-updating location specific services.

            >mutter
            I'm not even sure if this would solve my problem. It also doesn't solve the issue of not being able to capture windows on different workspaces, which is way more important to me than compositing.
            [...]
            He's telling me to use mutter on X because picom doesn't support per-application tearing.

            I'm not telling you to do anything. I'm telling you not to act like you can't use several X compositors, even on other DEs.
            >It also doesn't solve the issue of not being able to capture windows on different workspaces, which is way more important to me than compositing.
            I'm not trying to solve it. That's a highly specific usecase I don't fully understand, so I'm not commenting on it. If it works on hyprland for it, and the problems on X aren't just some shitty compositor bug, then use hyprland.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >and the problems on X aren't just some shitty compositor bug
            They're not, it happens regardless of whether or not I use a compositor.
            >you can't use several X compositors, even on other DEs.
            Are you 100% sure that I can run mutter just for compositing alongside awesome?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Are you 100% sure that I can run mutter just for compositing alongside awesome?
            No, mutter and kwin are WM/compositor combos. You could run awesome inside kde or gnome in place of the WM or (more easily) use them as the core of a session that doesn't drag in the whole DE. If your usecase is specifically awesome with compositing and you have some sort of problem with picom, then hyprland does sound like the best option.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Okay I think you fundamentally misunderstood the issue, because I skimmed the manual and also the help options, as well as tried to run it inside awesome. I'm not saying you can't run different window managers with whatever environment you choose, I'm talking about compositing. Picom isn't a window manager, it's an independent compositor that provides compositing for any kind of X display session. You can use it as a compositor for whatever window manager you want, as the window managers that aren't part of some desktop environment usually don't provide compositing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >mutter
            I'm not even sure if this would solve my problem. It also doesn't solve the issue of not being able to capture windows on different workspaces, which is way more important to me than compositing.

            Yeah wayland uses geolocation so redhat can keep tabs on you.

            He's telling me to use mutter on X because picom doesn't support per-application tearing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also this doesn't seem to be right.
            >picom doesn't support per-application tearing.
            picom supports this with the unredir-if-possible config. I'm not sure if this only applies to fullscreen windows though.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm not sure if this only applies to fullscreen windows though.
            Sadly it applies to all windows if a fully opaque full-screen window is present (and is stated as such in the config if you need proof). There is also a state flag "_NET_WM_BYPASS_COMPOSITOR", but this leads to the same result.
            >hyprland does sound like the best option.
            I'd personally like to see people just support this compositor because the developer is just giving people everything they want in a WM.

            LMAO some troon was so butthurt about this thread that they created a new thread to vent about this thread

            [...]

            Excellent bait. I'll be sure to reply to this thread 200 times and spend half a day arguing in it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Why would you want to
            You sound like a Wayland dev

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        > Hyprland
        "Just use hyprland bro, you don't need to use another compositor"
        > Everything I could
        Random user is able to do everything he does on XFree86 therefore it's the future display server. It has no technical merits, still stupid people will accept anything is thrown at them.
        > NOOOOOO but no one want to mess with X.Org code to implement what I need
        x"wayland" is 99% xorg code

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >you don't need to use another compositor
          Correct. X is good. Hyprland is better.
          >It has no technical merits
          Can't render captured windows on different workspaces in OBS, can't tear a single application.
          >x"wayland" is 99% xorg code
          I don't care about this at all. Most if not all of the applications I use are working on native support.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > Correct
            > Hyprland refuses to implement specific KWIN/MUTTER (the main compositors) extension
            suddenly many apps will simply not work or break under hyprland
            > Hyprland is better
            Except it's not, it still heritages the wayland dementia (race conditions, exploitable LPEs, increase of attack surface [your sensitive data has more passes], DOS by design through stupid means).
            > Merits
            You mentioned literally no merits of hyprland (as both "merits" has nothing to do with wayland design [actually wouldn't work in wayland even though it works in hyprland]).
            > Different workspaces
            Just keep the workspace mapped and active.
            > Can't tear
            xorg can do the same (compositors/tearfree)

            >therefore it's the future display server
            By the way I don't care about this at all, not even one iota of a frick do I give about whether or not wayland is the future. It works better for me (I have more requirements for display servers than the vast majority of users) and that's what matters.

            As I said the stupid will accept whatever is thrown at them. It doesn't matter if it will be retrogress in practice (specially for security and portability)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >suddenly many apps will simply not work or break under hyprland
            Doesn't happen.
            > it still heritages the wayland dementia
            Don't care.
            >[actually wouldn't work in wayland even though it works in hyprland]
            Being able to capture windows on different workspaces isn't something that's specific to Hyprland, I was able to do it using KDE as well. It's a merit derived from implementing the protocol.
            >Just keep the workspace mapped and active.
            No. I will use Hyprland instead because it handles my use-case. X does not handle my use-case. Until it does, I won't use X.
            >xorg can do the same (compositors/tearfree)
            It can't be done using the only good X wm (awesome) and picom, so it doesn't work for me.
            >accept whatever is thrown at them
            I use Hyprland because it's better than X. It's that shrimple.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > Doesn't happen
            It already happens with many other compositors (even with mutter that denied wlroots extensions), but of course it would never happen to hyprland, trust me bro.
            > Merit derived from implementing the protocol
            good one, the stable protocols wouldn't be able to do minimum desktop work much less recording (literally ncurses would be more capable). those are third party extensions that the major implementations add (the same capabilities can be done in ANY recent display server).
            > tearfree (xorg capability not de/wm specific) can't be done with awesome and picom
            nice bait
            > Because it's better than X
            Of course, it's better to decrease your security, is better to decrease portability and the amount of software available (maybe at best ported to the major implementations that is kwin and mutter).

            Who cares about keyloggers in X, just only use root on a virtual console, it's easy. Restrict sudo to updating packages or something to lessen the times you have to leave X.

            keyloggers can easily be done in wayland too, going backward and injecting it, or upward and having a look at the many passes your data does.

            Hyprland works better for me than X. I don't care about what you think should or shouldn't happen or your uneducated opinion on GUI isolation.

            > uneducated
            > knows literally nothing about xorg or wayland
            one needs to admit RHEL is quite good at convincing idiots to shill their shit saying it's better just because.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >keyloggers can easily be done in wayland too
            Well I'm still safe with my method of only using root from the console then. I have no experience with wayland, I'm simply saying it's best to not use sudo.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >it would never happen to hyprland, trust me bro.
            I'm not asking you to trust anything. I'm stating a fact. This is a problem that I have never experienced. Just because I can be hit by a car doesn't mean I'm going to stop going outside. If it happens, and it's a problem, I will either fix it myself or find a different solution.
            >those are third party extensions that the major implementations add
            Either way it's not specific to Hyprland, every compositor I've used has been able to do this. X can't do this.
            >tearfree (xorg capability not de/wm specific) can't be done with awesome and picom
            Oh so you completely misunderstood the problem. Tearfree forces mailbox, I don't want mailbox, I want a single fullscreen application to tear (not tearfree, tear) and for the rest of my desktop to still be composited. Next time spend two seconds reading.
            >it's better to decrease your security, is better to decrease portability blah blah blah
            I don't care about this at all. Hyprland does what I want, X doesn't, it's that shrimple.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > That I have never experienced
            Kek at least wayshillers are funny sometimes
            > fix it myself
            good luck adding extensions to wayland if necessary.
            > find a different solution
            Yeah the "you don't need hyprland bro, just use kwin" (mutter is major too but I doubt people will take the suffering of porting anything to it)
            > tear by choice
            use a compositor then (they can be disabled and enabled)
            > Hyprland does what I want X doesn't
            it does, just not under the circumstances you want (out of the box in a specific wm).

            anyway if you literally has zero knowledge about display servers, I wonder why you take the time to deny technical affirmations about it.
            > It works for me
            everyone understood that much, the affirmations weren't that it does not work for you, they were about its technical demerits (capabilities [remember hyprland/kwin/mutter =/= wayland], security, portability, etc.)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >good luck adding extensions to wayland if necessary.
            Vaxry seems to be doing it just fine via a wlroots fork.
            >eah the "you don't need hyprland bro, just use kwin"
            I'm not telling you that you need anything. I don't care about what you or anyone else uses. It works for me. When it doesn't work for me I will either fix the problem or find a solution that does work.
            >it does, just not under the circumstances you want (out of the box in a specific wm).
            It doesn't matter what WM I used in X (granted I've never tried mutter), unless a window is on a visible workspace, it cannot be rendered in OBS. This is a deal breaker for me.
            >use a compositor then (they can be disabled and enabled)
            Picom, which is the only independent compositor, supports either full sync, or no sync. There is no option where you can tear a single application on a single part of the xinerama and not have everything else tear as well.
            >they were about its technical demerits
            Clearly not because you guys keep trying to imply that I think wayland is the "future of the linux desktop" because I said Hyprland works better for me than X.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > wlroots fork
            I hope you don't need to add extensions, but if you eventually do have fun with its insanity of async OOP with subtle points of sync (most implementations simply do not give a frick to make it right and end up with A LOT of exploitable LPEs [including wlroots, kwin, mutter, probably everyone in fact]).
            > I'm not telling you that you need anything
            It's a quote for you, this is the wayland way, if it does not work in your compositor that you like (in your case hyprland) the "fix" is changing for another (like kwin that would change the way things works for you not only the capabilities).
            > You guys
            If it works for you use it. I only care about technical affirmations (it IS better =/= it is better FOR ME), the first is a lie, the second is subjective to you so no point in arguing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > the "fix" is changing for another
            There was a lot of shit that didn't work in X wms that I wanted. Eventually I switched to awesome, which provides a lua API, I just wrote all of the shit I wanted myself. Hyprland provides most of what I want OOB, for anything else, it has a plugin system and thank god, it's C++. If a problem arises, I will just hack some shit together to fix it, or if it's serious, I'll go deeper, just like I did to fix awesome's moronic decisions in the capi.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > only care about technical affirmations (it IS better =/= it is better FOR ME), the first is a lie, the second is subjective to you so no point in arguing.
            Hyprland is objectively better than X.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >therefore it's the future display server
          By the way I don't care about this at all, not even one iota of a frick do I give about whether or not wayland is the future. It works better for me (I have more requirements for display servers than the vast majority of users) and that's what matters.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >It's just a protocol bro
      We've moved on from that to straight up pretending that "wayland" is "whatever hacks your compositor does" like

      >things are so grim for wayland that zamundaa is now outright lying about the X session
      big oof

      Wayland literally and unironically does not support color profile enforcement, display calibration or HDR.
      https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/14
      But kwin_wayland hacked them in (not the full HDR spec and no display calibration thoughbeit) so it's time to accept progess chud.

  44. 1 month ago
    Drew Segfault

    I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

    What do anti-vaxxers, anti-semites, flat earthers, 9/11 truthers, anti-baby formula bigots and anti-Wayland activism all have in common? All of them are characterized by a blithe rejection of facts to embrace a narrative of victimization by a vague authority. In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. “Wayland sucks!” is a conspiracy theory with no basis in truth, and its supporters have spent years harassing Wayland maintainers, contributors, and users. And it’s time for it to fricking stop.

    Wayland works for almost everyone, and works for more people than is even possible with X11. Most of the lies you’ve heard about ways that it’s broken are just that: lies. And if you insist on living in that fantasy, then keep it to yourself, butthole.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you're supposedly tired then give up on trying to push people to adopt this literal horseshit.
      X11 is doing everything that it needs to do while Wayland demands multiple compromises and literally running X11 on top of it. Shilling this piece of shit is illogical and stupid.

  45. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    LMAO some troon was so butthurt about this thread that they created a new thread to vent about this thread

    [...]

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      xtards are the boomers of IQfy

  46. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://github.com/yshui/picom/issues/267
    https://specifications.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
    It should work on non-fullscreen windows but it will globally disable compositing while that uncomposited window is active.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, which is the issue. I don't want it to globally disable compositing, just for a single application that's fullscreen on one monitor. If I had a way to disable compositing on a single screen, that would also be fine, there's ways I've considered working around this using multiple X sessions, but getting all of that to work in OBS became a nightmare.

  47. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >install wayland
    >kill x
    >log back in
    >black screen
    >uninstall wayland
    all I need to know

  48. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Security being a selling point of wayland is kind of perverse. If they really cared about that, the wayland people could have written a reference implementation for XACE to stop program key listening and made it mandatory for xorg programs after a couple of years. Make a v2 composite extension too maybe. They wasted over a decade of everyone's time on reimplementing a display server instead.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >They wasted over a decade of everyone's time on reimplementing a display server instead.
      The worst thing is: they actually didn't. Remember, Wayland Is Just A Protocol™.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >They wasted over a decade of everyone's time on reimplementing a display server instead.
      No, they wasted a decade telling everyone else how to implement a display server. Some of their ideas were good, some of them were shit. Now instead of just X we have a lot of new display servers. The best one is going to win. The best one is probably going to be Cosmic, because the developers of Cosmic are much smarter than the people who tried to tell them to how to implement a display server.

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