I thought this was a lot better than Shadow of the Torturer

I really enjoyed it and it restored my faith that I will enjoy BOTNS as a whole. It has not reached the heights of 5HOC, but that is a very high bar anyway.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I guess my main question then is, will this series continue to accelerate in craziness? Or is Claw the peak of how crazy it can get?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      100%.

      remember to read urth of the new sun.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was the best of the quadrilogy imo. This applies to the whole series, but for me Claw was a book where every chapter something fascinating if not downright insane was happening.
      The beginning where we're in the village with Jonas, after cutting from the mysterious squabble at the end of the tunnel in book 1.
      Agia's letter drawing Sev. to the cave, and the battle there.
      The trek to the House Absolute. Good lord, I think that's the most intense location in the series.
      The gardens and the fountains, how it's underground, the prison, Sev's rendezvous with his rebel liaison. And see, I even forgot his time with the rebel camp.
      Talk about adventure, I'd like to hear of another novel wilder than this one.

      Hmm, book 3 is more focused but a lot of people like it more so I won't promise it's worse. It has its share of various settings too.
      But book 4? That will take you places you haven't been and didn't expect.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nice. Thanks for the rundown.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't feel any sarcasm but I'm sorry if someone would've appreciated spoiler tags on all that.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No sarcasm at all. I was mainly referencing your description on the nature of books 3 and 4. I should have greentexted.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I retained quite a bit of New Sun to explain it to an audience, which I think is very impressive for a story as unconventional as that, with as much mindfrick moments, bizarre plot points, not to mention time frickery. Visually, but also emotionally along the journey of Severian, I think it's extremely memorable.

            I think it was actually GRRM who described it in a tribute as "a box of gemstones" and that was a distinct impression I got myself. Basically every chapter is shining with some remarkable and/or mysterious centrepiece to focus your attention on.

            It's like, when I reread it (second read) I'm almost going to be surprised when I find things I didn't remember, yet at the same time I feel like I didn't miss anything integral.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Isn't claw also the one with the Ogre in the maze story? Realizing what that was supposed to actually represent blew my mind so hard

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          what is it

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It represents Severian's desire to have gay sex with Jonas.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wolfesisters aren't ready for that analysis yet.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why does BOTNS appear so much in the catalog of this board compared to its relative low popularity elsewhere?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It always has and always will. Accept it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't care I just ask, I've read the first four books and it was alright, maybe not the chef d'oeuvre lit claim it to be tho

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      IQfy is the right mix of highbrow and contrarian to allow for niche and higher quality works to shine through what is merely popular. There used to be more John Crowley discussion as well. Still is, but the heavier SFF gets almost no attention elsewhere.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's always been one of the biggest favorites of fantasy nerds.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sword of the Lictor is peak Wolfe and peak BOTNS.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based.

      >the fight between Severian and Baldanders

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        BOTNS would make a awesome anime. It even has the harem trope.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I watched the Angel's Egg recently, now I want Oshii to direct it with Amano's artstyle.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mourned that sword.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Gene teaching me the word 'pederast' by having me google it
        Thank you Mr. Wolfe

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          For me it was 'catamite.'

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah frick right I think that is what I was thinking of, not pederast. you are right

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gene really does go fricking bananas in lictor.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I liked when he fricked the redhead b***h and his blond 12 year old gf got jealous but quickly got over it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The entire time at the House Absolute is extremely kino. I love when Dr. Talos' play starts.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yep. The time in the antechamber was pretty dark and I could feel Jonas's pain.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >genre shit thread is the only thread with real discussion going on

    lol

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I might reread BOTNS for the 5th time. I might have a problem, how tf do you stop returning to your comfort slop? I feel like a woman rewatching Friends for the 20th time

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Read Wolfe stuff you haven't read.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I got filtered by the tunnels

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      have you attempted the rest of the solar cycle? silk is wolfe's most compelling character, in my opinion. it's written differently but it is amazing.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      read the wizard knight
      then read aramini's interpretation of it

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What is the in-universe reason for why Severian omitted from the book the riot at the wall of Nessus that separated the party?

    Or is it just some lost fragment that time traveling Wolfe could not translate.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i've always wondered this myself and perhaps someone can chime in. after reading the books, i figured perhaps severian did something he wasn't proud of and then was separated from the group.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For me it's:
    Lictor>Claw>Shadow>Citadel>Urth

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Was Urth even necessary for Wolfe to write? I feel like he wrote it as a sop because BOTNS filtered so many people. Like he took pity on them. Part of me thinks he shouldn't have.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I've heard people say his publisher/editor(?) wanted him to write another book to wrap things up more. I cant guarantee the veracity of it though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't think it is necessarry, but still very beautiful in parts. I like the ending for instance
        People always point out that he was obligated to write it for contractual reasons though

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        he was forced to write another in his publisher agreement. gospel of severian is some of my favorite bits of the whole story though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It only answers the softball questions and starts adding its own. I don't think it was necessary but it was good in the way a decent sequel usually is, only better because Wolfe is a better writer. I thought the kabalistic angle was cool and surprisingly accurate to both western occultism and something like Sefer Yetzirah itself. You can't really fake mysticism, the arts are an occult process and he clearly contemplated the spheres.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i fricking love Pringles
    thank you so much Mr. Wolfe

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I took long breaks between each volume and completely forgot what the point of the tunnel was, or what they were up to in the house Absolute. I usually take notes, but I pirated this one so it doesn't save. Tragedy
    Finished Lictor recently and that has to be the best volume in the series in terms of plot. Just non stop action and even the downtime monologues are fricking awesome.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Silk > Severian > Horn

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But Horn is Silk

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The first book honestly sucked and it's only "good" because it's a set up for the other 4 books

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But the first book contains crucial scenes like Baldanders saying he's going to take a nap for the whole day in a park.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Can't say I disagree.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can say I disagree. Those initial chapters in the torturers guild were fascinating, and there are so many details you get on the re-read.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The first one is for re-reading, and you will reread it because of how good the others are

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sell me on reading this even though my cantankerous ex wife was shilling the audio book to me when last I saw her.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah TSOTT is a bit of a warmup. A lot of the tropey/formulatic material gets subverted later.

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