Ideally, what should determine a persons wage? Output? Effort? Importance of the work?

Ideally, what should determine a person’s wage? Output? Effort? Importance of the work?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A person should be paid according to the value of his work, not the time spent.
    And there should be no upper limit to how much money an employee should be able to make to encourage going the extra mile.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      neither. payments should be determined by the market demand for that job. if a position has high skill/studies requirement and takes a lot of time and energy to perfom, but has disproportonately more candidates than positions, then the pay should be comparably low.
      ideally, this should never be the case with specialized positions, due to the time investment filtering people out, but it does happen, especially with the humanities and meme degrees. people who excel in their field should still receive higher pay, assuming that they actually took a senior positions.
      effort and time investment mean nothing when I don't have an incentive to pay you more because of how easy it would be to replace someone. any other order is communism

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Would such a system not end up promoting an upper class of specialized workers leaving the rest behind?

        Given that our higher capabilities for production requiring fewer people, what are we to do with the underclass of the unskilled?

        If they should simply "work/study harder" is it their fault for being poor? and if so did they choose to live in poverty? and if so should we even help them? Given they choose this life?

        But if they are not masters of their own fate, why don't we help them, as they are helpless?

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Connections, if you know a guy, you can do minimum and get paid a lot, you can do maximum and get paid a lot.
    If you don't know a guy, your salary is whatever you can get.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever the employer may see fit to most profit him

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    His value to the company and the value of the company in the economy

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    More often than not, it's the perception of your value to the company.

    and this is a bit of a bs, especially when you're not a very social person to make everyone in your company aware of your acheivements and so you go undervalued.

    Especially when you are a skilled specialist who does something that most people in your company don't undrestand - if you can sell yourself, they'll think you're doing magic and worship you. If not, they might feel like you're not doing anything, coz nobody understands just wtf it is you do all day anyway.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A negotiation between the worker and employer during the interview process

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The firmer the handshake, the larger the paycheck.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wages should be determined at random on an hourly basis by dividing a company's available funds that it can afford to wages by its total staff. This would make wages both more equitable due to the law of averages and more exciting because sometimes you're that lucky bastard that got $10 million when everyone else got 3 cents.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's determined by the will of the workers. If they're willing to put up with shit, they'll take shit pay. But If they're willing to band together and demand a better working experience, they'll get it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      And this is why people aren't having children anymore, I'm not rich so I know if I had a offspring at some point I'd have to ask that offspring to settle for a shit job and start paying the bills, and I'm not that cruel.
      putting up with shit ends with me for my family

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You're an antinatalist which makes a lot of sense for a worker.
        You have to be born an employer to enjoy life.
        would your offspring be doomed to be an employee?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >would your offspring be doomed to be an employee
          most likely, yeah
          and I can't inflict that evil on my kids.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yeah as engineers or service workers but what if they were doctors or lawyers?
            you can force them to become doctors then they'll go to the upper middle class

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            upper middle class? with AI replacing white collar jobs? doctors and lawyers are only going to see their income plummet as their jobs are made redundant, unless they come from wealth and have nepotism connections and there's no wealth or connections here to come from

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That makes sense, but I think doctors and lawyers will still validate AI work and therefore be quality control based.
            Quality control engineers will also be important.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You need 1 quality control engineer to supervise AI and that's more likely to be some doctor's kid than some non-doctor's kid. The risk is too high. My parents thought like you and now I'm living a shit miserable life because of their hubris. Please don't have children if you aren't going to GUARANTEE their happiness. I wish someone had given this advice to my parents.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you can always send your kids to a shitty country to study medicine.
            I heard the chinese will enrol your kid even if he's got low marks and you'll have to pay the fees

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Except that does not at all guarantee the person will be happy and satisfied with their life. Forcing me to study did not make me happy and satisfied with my life, which is why I'm not having kids.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Why are you telling us this?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Please don't have children if you aren't going to GUARANTEE their happiness. I wish someone had given this advice to my parents.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What should your parents have done that would have guaranteed your happiness?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Making sure they were capable of providing everything someone might need before having children, on all levels, emotional, psychological and material.

            I don't have the means to ensure my potential son or daughter has the housing they want when they become an adult, and I know the hell of renting or roommating, I hate paying a rent and I don't want my kids to live with this hell. I can't afford owning a home. I don't have the means to gift houses or condos to a son or daughter like wealthy families do, so I don't have kids.

            My parents never paused to think "hmmm my kid might not be able to afford owning a home when he's an adult, I should make sure they have they have the housing they want"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Where your parents gifted houses? Maybe they don't think it's such a big deal as you

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well it is a big deal to me. They failed in recognizing that, and since now I'm miserable and unhappy, I don't want my kid to be miserable and unhappy because I also failed in recognizing what was a big deal to my kid.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I think you are being silly, saying that parents have to guess, and guess correctly, at what their children may demand in order to be happy in the future, and also provide it
            It's not like not being given a house for free deterred your parents from having children, so it's different for everyone
            Not a standard that is reasonable, or possible, to meet
            Unless you're just advocating radical anti-natalism

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I ain’t advocating anything, anon.
            I’m telling you why I’m not having children, and what I wish someone had told my parents so maybe I wouldn’t be suffering now. Hey, maybe someone did and they were just such stubborn arrogant shitheads they thought they were better than that anyway. So they shouldn’t be surprised I got the stubborn arrogant shithead genes and want to be better than their shit mistakes anyway,

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you are going to’ create a life then you are responsible for ensuring the well-being of that life. Creating a sentient being only to not care what happens to it and not care that they suffer, is the behavior of psychopaths.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            okay I'll buy him a flat and make him do a medicine degree.
            sounds like he'll be skilled and save all the money he makes.
            pretty upper class?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What if he doesn't like medicine and drops out because he doesn't care to be a doctor?
            You gonna pretend he's not your DNA?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Alright. You're my daddy.
            But, I'm a whiny crybaby who isn't gonna be happy unless I get to live in castle, get a harem of 100 virgin Asian girls and get to be 8 feet tall.
            What are you gonna to about it?
            It's not like we were talking about basic opportunities, or needs, or anything like that, you need to guarantee my happiness! Not my fault I'm hard to please ;/

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Being anon you need to be contrarian but not wanting to condemn my child to unhappiness is exactly why I don't have children.
            >What are you gonna to about it?
            Not have any children to disappoint for one.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's not about being contrarian. I am trying to highlight that the standard (guaranteeing happiness) is impossible to meet

            I agree, parents shouldn't have children unless they can provide their children with basic needs, and opportunities. (and probably a lot of non-basic needs as well)
            I just draw the line before providing them with a house 18 years later, or a comfortable living beyond their childhood without the child having to work for a living, etc

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            antinatalism also dictates that you cannot meet the standard

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, don't complain when your kid is childfree and cuts all contact with you, though.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You sound like my father. Dad, your genes are shit, they created me, what you yourself call a failure. You were wrong about yourself, there is nothing good about you, look what came from you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            what if they don't pass the exams to become doctors because they are just not good enough
            what if they can't take the pressure and kill themselves or become neets and turn over to meth
            what's your backup plan in case someone doesn't live up to your expectations? How do you guarantee their well-being anyway? Or do you just discard them in which case please don't have children you're only creating monsters

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >what if they can't take the pressure and kill themselves or become neets and turn over to meth
            then they ain't my kids. my genes are based on rejecting all that wrong stuff and not even taking an interest in it
            It's usually adopted kids or lower class kids that do those things because their parents were drug addicts and suicidal

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >they ain't my kids
            You sound like someone's boomer parents who are getting abandoned in some abusive care home when they hit retirement.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            For real. Yes dad, I am your kid, the DNA test proves it. I am the sum of your genes. Your genes are shit and a failure.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >you can force them
            East Asia thought that, now East Asia has the lowest birthrate in the world and is at the forefront of the NEET phenomenon. Forcing people makes people unhappy and unhappiness creates a shitton of problems.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >he fell for the commie pamphlet

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Adequate work should allow for the purchase of a home, the raising of a family and retirement. Enough "pursuing" happiness forever instead of actually obtaining it.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It should roughly represent the market value of their work, with some guaranteed pay as a form of insurance in case something goes wrong with the business. So a competitive wage plus performance bonuses.

    If you think you should get paid a certain amount for your efforts, then direct effort towards increasing your market value, make some intellectual effort.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever the guy who pays feels like paying

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Are you guys moronic?
    Some (most?) lines of work, it's going to be pretty hard to quantity these things.
    If the guy who put in the bare minimum had an interest in tricking people to make it look like he put in effort, it's going to be even harder.

    It's going to cause so much bickering. If one guy is paid more than the other, and other knows, and start making a fuss about it ACTUALLY was him that did the most work, etc.

    Why would you ever want to deal with that, as a boss?
    Easier to just pay them both the same (as little I can get away with). What are they gonna do about it?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the guy who put in the bare minimum had an interest in tricking people to make it look like he put in effort
      I don’t know what kinds of jobs you’ve worked but that’s really not possible at any job I’ve worked. Everything that’s done is recorded in some way or could be checked.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Some mix of skill value and quantity of work done over a pay period, I would add just a flat rate and build those on top. I think that would be fair.
    My company gives a production bonus every month based on how much we made and sales gets commission of course

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever you and your union rep negotiate with your employer is your deserved wage. Take everything you can get.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ITT
    >wagies arguing wages instead of getting socialist gibs

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Ideally, what should determine a person’s wage?
    The marker value of their wage.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    universal income

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    How much other employers are willing to pay + how much other employees are willing to accept as a wage.

  19. 1 month ago
    ToadVine

    Whatever it is agreed upon.

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