If human action is limited (for example, one can't fly etc), how do we have free will?

If human action is limited (for example, one can't fly etc), how do we have free will? What is the definition of free will?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It means you can choose to be behave ethically or unethically.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Got it.

      Free will doesn’t mean omnipotence. If an entity has a total of 10 actions it can do, as long as it can decide to act in any one of those ten possibile ways then it has “free will” in the conventional sense. Libertarian free will is an absurd position though because it tries to take human agency outside of any causal chain of events and implies that our actions are completely spontaneous and free of all external influence. Only God can truly have free will in the libertarian sense, cause and effect does not stop where our decisions begin, no matter how subtle or unnoticed, there were causes and conditions in the past that influence and cause our current decisions.

      So in a world in which only good actions were possible but one could choose between them, they would still have free will? Because that's the opposite of Alvin Plantinga says as far as I understood it.
      Also,
      >Libertarian free will is an absurd position though because it tries to take human agency outside of any causal chain of events and implies that our actions are completely spontaneous and free of all external influence.
      What about quantum mechanics?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cont.: maybe it's just that you and Plantinga have different definitions of it and I'm confusing them.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Une Chienne Andalou

        >So in a world in which only good actions were possible but one could choose between them, they would still have free will?
        Yes. If only good actions exhausted all possible actions in a given universe, as long as you could choose between them, you would be “free”, but this would also suggest that the world itself is ontologically “good”, because it is our interaction with it that causes our actions and determines our choices.
        >What about quantum mechanics?
        What about it? As far as I’m aware, quantum particles and such are fuzzy and not so certain or stable as the larger objects they make up. I’m not sure how quantum fields or particles would escape cause and effect.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You are a compatibilist, right? My point is that the act of choosing can't be determined by definition. In quantum mechanics, the position of particles is undertermined until a measurement is made.

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          Free will is impossible as multiverse theory shows that all possibilities exist and all choices were premade. You have no free will.

          That is if multiverse theory is real to begin with.

          and

          Real talk, free will only exists as a sensation, as the feeling that you have made a choice without being forced by some external force. In our daily lives, we don’t really feel that we’re being manipulated by anyone, so we feel as though we are free. But after we learned physics and biology, we realized that we are always being manipulated by the past, by our genetics, experiences, the laws of physics, etc. so free will is ultimately an illusion.
          >but it’s still me! I am the one that makes the decisions!
          If there were a way to hijack your brain and make you desire something in such a way that you wouldn’t even care if you found out that someone else implanted this desire inside you, because you desired it so much, then you would still feel as though you have free will, simply because you are doing something that you want to do. That is really the whole purpose of the illusion of free will, to make us feel as though we are doing what is best for us, especially in the absence of external force. But when you try to rigorously define free will as some sort of objective phenomenon and not a subjective sensation (which exists even deterministically), then you run into vagueness and contradictions.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Is random chance the same as libertarian free will? Although I'm not entirely sure what libertarianism even really means

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know. Wikipedia says "The task of the metaphysical libertarian is to reconcile free will with indeterminism."
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_(metaphysics)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no, it is obviously a cope. No one has ever been able to explain the mechanism of free will and how it can operate without being determined by prior causes while also not being random. Some people like Popper might try to combine them and say that thoughts and desires are randomly generated and selected deterministically, but this is still the same as rolling dice and feeding the results into a computer algorithm. The only difference is that a human has an illusion of freedom, whereas the computer isn’t conscious at all. But the illusion of freedom is simply caused by the presence of multiple desires or thoughts, which can easily occur in a deterministic universe.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, I think the big issue is that any thought needs some kind of cause.
            If it's random chance then that's not really free will to most people
            If it's some kind of supernatural "soul" even that's subject to cause/effect (e.g. god created your soul w/ certain attributes or whatever)
            I feel like the only decent positions are determinism, compatibalism, or saying it's all random chance

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Either way, the most reasonable course of action is to manipulate the cases that we know affect our behaviors, like genetics and experiences. It is theoretically possible to design a human that uses their “free will” to never sin, to always choose the best outcome, to be rational in everything they do. It’s just a matter of having the right genetics and conditioning. But if you believe in free will, then you think this whole endeavor is pointless, or that it actually somehow reduces free will, which is ridiculous, because if free will is something that transcends biology, then it can’t be taken away by only manipulating biology. And yet we could easily design someone to simply not have sinful urges, which kinda proves that it never had anything to do with “free will,” but simply about having unfit desires in certain situations because we unfortunately did not evolve for hundreds of thousands of years to live in modern society, but as hunter-gatherers, so it is no surprise that we often make dumb decisions guided by our primitive urges.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This doesn't exactly criticize my problem with purposed multiverse theory with infinity branching timelines. As for Entropy being randomness. Given perfect intelligence, an object can be reversed from it's lower energy state back to it's higher energy state.
            Entropy is the summation of all possible given micro states which can then be resulted in a measured or given macro state. There is no such thing as pure randomness as these micro states have to function within the bounds of probability.
            Theologically speaking, Daniel's Prophecy would not have been possible unless there was a deterministic element to the reality that we do live in. Free will is on an individualistic level regardless, something we can exercise.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >This doesn't exactly criticize my problem with purposed multiverse theory with infinity branching timelines.
            I don't have enough knowledge about it to comment on that
            >As for Entropy being randomness. Given perfect intelligence, an object can be reversed from it's lower energy state back to it's higher energy state.
            Right, but wouldn't new information be generated? Or thinking now it seems that information is destroyed when the system goes to a lower energy state... I'm not sure.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cont.: I think it depends on the type of system. If it's a classical system, then the tendency is of information to decrease. But in quantum systems, the information increases because there's random events happening at every moment.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Or thinking now it seems that information is destroyed when the system goes to a lower energy state... I'm not sure
            Information can't be destroyed. Even if we go by the principle of a blackhole, the information of the matter is scrambled, then encoded on it. Ordered Information = higher energy state. Scrambled/Entropy information = lower energy state.

            Say you burn a letter down to fine white ash, if you are given all information in the system which went from state 1 to state 2, you can reconstruct the letter with everything that was written on it. But this is ignoring having perfect intelligence of the states that resulted in the outcome and the energy required to reverse it. It looks like it is destroyed to us because we are looking at a black box and seeing the result from 1 to 2.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, but just because you can access the past from the present, it doesn't mean that reality is deterministic. New information is generated every moment.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but just because you can access the past from the present
            No, if you can access the information that cause state 2 from state 1, you can reverse the state of entropy. This is not accessing the past but knowing the state of information which caused State 2. You fail to grasp the very essence of information. According to the laws of quantum physics, information cannot be destroyed. It doesn't matter that new information is generated as that is outside of the given example nor dos it discredit the scenario described for simplicity sake.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >This is not accessing the past but knowing the state of information which caused State 2.
            I don't get the difference

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Une Chienne Andalou

    Free will doesn’t mean omnipotence. If an entity has a total of 10 actions it can do, as long as it can decide to act in any one of those ten possibile ways then it has “free will” in the conventional sense. Libertarian free will is an absurd position though because it tries to take human agency outside of any causal chain of events and implies that our actions are completely spontaneous and free of all external influence. Only God can truly have free will in the libertarian sense, cause and effect does not stop where our decisions begin, no matter how subtle or unnoticed, there were causes and conditions in the past that influence and cause our current decisions.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    ࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇

    FREE WILL IS NOT UNLIMITED ACTION; FREE WILL IS THE FACULTY TO CHOOSE (VOLITION), OR NOT TO CHOOSE (NOLITION), TO DO SOMETHING, WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF NATURE, AND OF A GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCE.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Free will is merely the ability to choose otherwise. As long as there are at least two actions that a human can possibly take, they have free will.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    To do anything which antecedent conditions are insufficient to bring about. This post is a joke, right.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Free will is impossible as multiverse theory shows that all possibilities exist and all choices were premade. You have no free will.

    That is if multiverse theory is real to begin with.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Real talk, free will only exists as a sensation, as the feeling that you have made a choice without being forced by some external force. In our daily lives, we don’t really feel that we’re being manipulated by anyone, so we feel as though we are free. But after we learned physics and biology, we realized that we are always being manipulated by the past, by our genetics, experiences, the laws of physics, etc. so free will is ultimately an illusion.
    >but it’s still me! I am the one that makes the decisions!
    If there were a way to hijack your brain and make you desire something in such a way that you wouldn’t even care if you found out that someone else implanted this desire inside you, because you desired it so much, then you would still feel as though you have free will, simply because you are doing something that you want to do. That is really the whole purpose of the illusion of free will, to make us feel as though we are doing what is best for us, especially in the absence of external force. But when you try to rigorously define free will as some sort of objective phenomenon and not a subjective sensation (which exists even deterministically), then you run into vagueness and contradictions.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God imposes his will on me, he wants me to have "free will" as in the freedom to possess a will because it brings him satisfaction to impose his opposing will on me. I have free possession of a will but not the freedom to enact my will, my will differs from God's and that's the reason why he gave me "free will" in the sense of "free desire", because he wants to be able to impose his opposing will on something that possesses it's own will, this is basically the most basic definition of sadism: imposing your harmful will on something with an opposing will. God didn't think it would be as fun to abuse me if I "shared his will", if I didn't have the freedom to desire not to be abused then God wouldn't have found it fun enough to abuse me, so he gave me the freedom to desire not to be abused so that he could get more satisfaction out of abusing me.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Dionysus-Priopos

    super simple dude. free will for a created being is to the ability to perceive and have a relationship with eternal truths (analogous to platonic forms) and their amalgamation AKA god. your free will is derived from your ability to reject them and go psychotic.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This question is so stupid I literally can't tell if it's a shitpost.

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