If we could find a credible report of a non-Christian priest (Pagan, Taoist, Buddhist, etc.) doing a miracle, wouldn't that dismantle the Christi...

If we could find a credible report of a non-Christian priest (Pagan, Taoist, Buddhist, etc.) doing a miracle, wouldn't that dismantle the Christian idea that miracles stem solely from faith in Jesus Christ?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, because you have one credible report of one holy man doing a miracle vs evidence of Jesus Christ that was so compelling it's been passed down for almost 2000 years and even today it contains wisdom that can be directly applied to your real life. There's no scenario where anyone can "compete" with Jesus.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >one holy man
      Who is holy without being a Christian... that has to have some implications for Christian claims of exclusivity

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus Christ likely never existed to begin with. The earliest Gospels of the New Testament we have are from the 2nd century. There are no primary sources for his existence. What's more, it's a little interesting that Simon Magus, John the Baptist and Jesus Christ - three traveling israeli mystics who practiced public magic and whose followers revered them as "Messiah" - all existed in the same time/place in 1st century Judea during Roman occupation (when israelites were most desperate for the Messiah to come and save them). That should tell you that our version of Jesus is likely a mixture of multiple preceding variations of that same israeli mythic folk hero fable.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh shut the frick up

        1. They testified for it with their lives
        2. They never made any money
        3. Their first witnesses are women - unqualified sources that will never be written by someone lying
        4. No one used their authority to live easily with a harem. Instead, they get beaten, jailed, and killed
        5. it is a major political movement but none of the israelites ever released anybody
        6. It could have been any decaying body. It would have been enough to destroy the movement on the spot
        7. Instead, the Pharisees paid the Romans to say that they stole the body - as if being tricked by illiterate fishermen is less embarrassing than the alternative conclusion

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Holy cope

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >2. They never made any money
          Paul keeps writing that he isn't doing it for the money
          this is evidence that people at the time accused him of being in it for the money, that he felt the need to defend himself

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Which makes perfect sense
            Paul is a highborn israelite with a Roman birthright
            If he wants money, he wouldn't be there

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >1. They testified for it with their lives
          The tales of the martyrdoms of the apostles and lay Christians (brothers/sisters of the Lord) are all late and apocryphal. Of course, even if they were true, it doesn't have anything to do with a Jesus being historical anymore than any other nutjob cults with their own martyrs.
          >2. They never made any money
          Actually, Paul himself says that he collected from his churches. For "noble reasons" of course. But then, why do you think Peter gave him a chance to join their cult at all? That's right, sacks of cash.
          >3. Their first witnesses are women
          Actually, that comes about from the Gospels, and they can't even agree as to WHICH women and how they witnessed the resurrected Jesus. Also, it fits just fine because women were very represented in the Early Church, and in the allegories of Paul. The Gospels are fiction anyways, and are written with the "last shall be first" ethos in mind, after all.
          > Instead, they get beaten, jailed, and killed
          Again, irrelevant to a historical Jesus existing.

          The rest of your points are irrelevant, because they come from the Gospels, which are late texts.
          Go ahead, look in Paul. You'll find a very different account of Early Christian origins. (hint: he never talks about the family of Jesus, his earthly ministry, anyone even being there for the crucifixion, no trial, so on and so forth). Jesus only appears in Paul as visions and secret messages in Scripture, and Paul is unaware of anyone else knowing Jesus any other way.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he never talks about the family of Jesus
            brother of the Lord.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That was a common way that Paul talked about lay Christians (baptized but not Apostles). He explicitly says elsewhere how all Christians are adopted by Baptism into God's family as the brothers and sisters of Jesus.
            Paul, when referring to James, never once specifies that this is a different kind of "brother" than a cultic one. In fact, he never actually mentions Jesus having a flesh and blood family, and is unaware of any kind of blood relatives of Jesus being POSSIBLE.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your entire argument was
            >it never happened
            Completely ignoring the fact that it is a major political and societal movement with wide-reaching consequences for the entirety of Judea

            A serious concern that every person in charge never ignored. But, for some reason, cannot disprove either

            The only explanation for this is simply the fact that everyone knows what happened. And it brought either celebration or fear.

            Icing on the cake is how you think that having a crucified god, crucified followers, and being associated with beggars and lepers makes it look good for a cult.
            The cross is the single most humiliating death in the Roman Empire as you do not just die. You also get turned into a billboard

            It is serious.
            No one in their right minds would want to associate with it
            And yet, here we are.

            Christianity is unique as it defied every standard norms. In fact, our modern norm is the result of Christian influence and enforcement

            And you are adamant that nothing is fishy here?
            Laughable

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The only explanation for this is simply the fact that everyone knows what happened. And it brought either celebration or fear.
            Pliny the Younger was so unaware of Christians, and what they believed, that he had never even HEARD of a single trial involving one, and he actually had to go looking for them just to find out what their cult was about.
            As of the dawn of the 2nd century, Christianity was utterly unknown.

            As for Christianity itself, it's rise to significance perfectly parallels the growht of every other religious movement, and it is nearly identical to all the other Mystery Cults of it's day, just with israeli elements added instead of Persian/Thracian/Phrygian/so on.
            >Christianity is unique as it defied every standard norms.
            It did not. israelites already believed in a suffering and dying and rising messiah, and they already believed in a pre-existent "firstborn of God", whom Philo himself named Jesus (Zec 6:12 as cited by Philo). A cult of israelites merging the dying and rising messiah with the preexistent angel agent of creation (Jesus), and then putting that into a Mystery Cult framework was just expected.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's nice but you have failed to point out the biggest claim of all:
            They outright named the involvement of the Governor of Judea

            Had it been a lie, Pilate could easily, and sweeply, have grounds to arrest them for defamation but he didn't
            Guy is the single most powerful person in Judea but, for some reason, he never said that the allegations are wrong.

            We are talking serious matter here. Like serious enough to get crucified

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >They outright named the involvement of the Governor of Judea
            Paul didn't, and he's literally the first Christian author we indisputably have. Paul actually says that Satan and his demons killed Jesus, and that no human ever knew about the death or resurrection until after it happened.
            >Had it been a lie, Pilate could easily, and sweeply, have grounds to arrest them for defamation but he didn't
            He didn't because it was a fictional story. The Gospels were all allegorical works literally designed to filter midwits who thought they were real history. Mark even has Jesus TELL YOU THIS directly.
            >Like serious enough to get crucified
            If you knew Roman or israeli Law, you would know why the Gospel account of the Trial and execution of Jesus are both equally ahistorical.
            The Trial is an allegory about Jesus being the New Yom Kippur (Barabbas literally means "son of the Father", there's two Jesus on Trial). There existed absolutely no Roman law that provides for a criminal to be set free, nor was there any Roman law on the books about "blasphemy", let alone one the Romans would enforce on behalf of the israelites. Even claiming to be King was a literal nothingburger coming from some random rabbi.
            But again, I stress, the Trial did not occur. It is an allegory for the Two Goats, the goat of sin (Barabbas) and the goat of sacrificial cleansing (Jesus).

            Pilate never had any cause to make any kind of announcement "denying the allegations" (whatever you think those were) because it NEVER HAPPENED.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Archeology say otherwise

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Such as? I'll check back in tomorrow.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Addendum: the Trial account in the Gospels would have been illegal under israeli Law too, and null and void. So neither Roman nor israeli law tracks with the account of the Trial.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, it was illegal. That was entire message of the Bible.
            It was just mob rule

            Such as? I'll check back in tomorrow.

            We have evidence of Pilate, prisoners being let go for political concerns, and crucified men being dropped down and given proper burial

            There is no allegory here
            Jesus has fulfilled 120 out of 160 prophesies with the next 40 for his return

            If this is a lie, then it's an embarrassing one
            Not only are they dying for a crucified man, but also for a man who failed in fulfilling all prophecies

            It's stupid. You're stupid

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ok, so then how do you explain the very stark differences between the message of the Old Testament and message of the New Testament?

        OT is very "Fear your God, or face his wrath" and it's riddled with a lot of morally dubious scenarios with way too much focus on who owns what land and what cattle and who's entitled to what inheritance and who should be next in line to rule etc.. Whereas NT is more "God loves you, do as he commands because he knows what's best for you" and it's about embracing poverty and learning that compared to faith in God nothing on this Earth has any true value and you shouldn't become attached to it and you should love all men even your enemies. Surely if the NT and the idea of Jesus were imagined by people under foreign occupation, they'd dream up something to rouse the masses and Jesus would be a warrior king power fantasy smiting the sinners like in the OT?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Different writers. It's that simple. You know the New Testament wasn't written by a single person, right? It also contradicts itself quite frequently.
          https://ia801303.us.archive.org/31/items/ContradicitonsInTheNewTestament/194ContradInNt.pdf

          Oh shut the frick up

          1. They testified for it with their lives
          2. They never made any money
          3. Their first witnesses are women - unqualified sources that will never be written by someone lying
          4. No one used their authority to live easily with a harem. Instead, they get beaten, jailed, and killed
          5. it is a major political movement but none of the israelites ever released anybody
          6. It could have been any decaying body. It would have been enough to destroy the movement on the spot
          7. Instead, the Pharisees paid the Romans to say that they stole the body - as if being tricked by illiterate fishermen is less embarrassing than the alternative conclusion

          Again, there's no evidence that Jesus ever existed. What your describing is only ever described in the Bible. The Tacitus Letters/Letter to Pilate/etc. have all been confirmed as forgeries by even the Vatican itself. Saying, "this happened because this religious text described it" doesn't mean much when books like Dianetics also exist in the same vein, no?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Different writers. It's that simple
            Yeah but for what purpose?

            Why would a people under occupation fabricate a story about loving your enemies and being meek and non-violent?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because writing/disseminating the other kind of story about a Messiah that violently overthrows the Romans would've got the writers killed. Making Jesus a meek pacifist allowed them to actually make their works public.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Making Jesus a meek pacifist allowed them to actually make their works public.
            Ok but why? When you're drowning you don't start drinking the water to quench your thirst. Why would people under occupation write a story that encourages them to stay oppressed and downtrodden?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            DIY miracle kit 2

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Why would people under occupation write a story that encourages them to stay oppressed and downtrodden?
            Did you miss the part where Jesus promised them an eternal reward in the afterlife? The writers of the New Testament (slash "Jesus") also believed the world was literally coming to an end in their lifetimes.

            Matthew 24:34
            >Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

            When you actually read the context of Matthew, you realize Jesus was dead wrong in that prediction. All the worldwide apocalyptic shit that he promised his followers would witness obviously didn't occur in their lifetimes. I've heard some Christians go so far as to cope and say that there are currently thousands of year old israelites who were there to witness it walking around in secret, but that's pretty pathetic even as far as "exegesis" goes.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Jesus is unique. He is the one and ONLY God who loves everyone so much he is willing to descend down our level and die for us.
            Again, Jesus never existed.
            Also it's telling you haven't even tried to respond to this:
            [...]

            Matthew 24:34
            >Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
            The "this" in this verse does not refer to Jesus' generation, it refers to the future generation that will witness all the signs of the end. You're reading it as "MY generation" when the correct reading is "THAT generation".

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's moronic. You're forgetting Jesus is addressing a crowd of listeners when he says this. They'd have no reason to believe he wasn't referencing them and it would make zero sense for Jesus to say "this generation" in reference to some future generation thousands of years in the future in the context of his sermon. Re-read Matthew again.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's moronic. You're forgetting Jesus is addressing a crowd of listeners when he says this.
            It's how they spoke back then. Or at least, it's roughly equivalent to how they spoke. Today you'd interpret it as "oh that's me", but back then it would've been clear "Oh that's not me".

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's complete headcanon

            [...]
            Conflicting details do not disprove the event

            We have 3 witnesses to a car crash.
            One says the car is yellow, the other claims it is black, and the other claims it is green

            Does that mean there was no car crash?
            moron.

            Truth is found in the commonalities, not differences.

            Jesus was the messiah
            He rebuked the Pharisees and Sadducees
            He welcomed lepers, widows, prostitutes, and outcasts
            He died on the cross
            He resurrected
            And he will return again

            This is their testimony that they willingly died for

            [...]
            Being a threat is what got Jesus killed
            Fool

            >"Slaves, obey your earthly master
            He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want. They want people to hear of Jesus and do his will

            >He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want. They want people to hear of Jesus and do his will
            Wait so your saying Jesus lied and defended something evil just for the sake of political expediency? What the hell kind of argument is that for a Christian to be making?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's complete headcanon
            Just read Shakespeare. People even 400 years ago spoke the same language as you but it would sound like incomprehensible gibberish.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Mark 12:43 DPro-NFS
            GRK: ἡ χήρα αὕτη ἡ πτωχὴ
            NAS: I say to you, this poor
            KJV: unto you, That this poor widow

            Matthew 24:34 DPro-NFS
            GRK: ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως ἂν
            NAS: I say to you, this generation
            KJV: unto you, This generation

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus died to save mankind
            He has no shit about politics. He only cares about whether people are willing to follow him on the cross.

            If they don't want to repent, then that's on them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're the one implying Jesus hid his true beliefs about slavery to avoid the political backlash that would've come alongside inciting a major slave uprising. "He has no shit about politics" is a direct contradiction of what you JUST WROTE.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He does not give a damn about who rules who. Just whether they are righteous or not

            The Bible does not condemn slavery. It condemns evil. It was necessary to have slaves because it was a time of great conflict.
            Slaves are the pows.

            If you do not take them, then they are free. This means that they have no food, no clothing, no house, no marketable skill, and no land to till on. Very dangerous

            Being a slave doesn't sound nice but your survival is secured. All you need to worry about is whether your owner is fair and just

            Mind you, Christians are well aware that slaves are bad. In fact, Pope Callixtus and Pope Pius themselves were slaves
            But they cannot get rid of it so easily because that would be tantamount to rebellion. And they cannot feed so many free men without neither skill nor literacy.
            Thus, they focus on having better treatment for slaves wherein slave owners are now required to teach slaves how to read and write. Slaves now get the right to complain about bad masters and many other forms of freedom

            Christians aren't blind.They were on the receiving side for centuries

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So, again, you're arguing that Jesus was aware that slavery is evil but they defend it anyway out of political expediency. That's a pretty wild take.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He's not defending shit
            He came to redeem. If they refuse, that's on them

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            sar do NOT redeem

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            What you're forgetting is that Jesus came to save the slaver as well as the slave, God loves the oppressor just as much as the oppressed and He wants them to be saved too, which is why Jesus commands us to love and forgive our oppressors and just rise against them and kill them.

            So you're saying parts of the Bible are blatantly false but for a good reason? What a weird hill to die on.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No one said that

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >So you're saying parts of the Bible are blatantly false
            According to you, what part of the Bible are we saying that are "blatantly false"?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            See

            [...]
            What you're forgetting is that Jesus came to save the slaver as well as the slave, God loves the oppressor just as much as the oppressed and He wants them to be saved too, which is why Jesus commands us to love and forgive our oppressors and just rise against them and kill them.

            >What you're forgetting is that Jesus came to save the slaver as well as the slave,
            Directly contradicts
            >"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
            And you stated here:

            [...]
            Conflicting details do not disprove the event

            We have 3 witnesses to a car crash.
            One says the car is yellow, the other claims it is black, and the other claims it is green

            Does that mean there was no car crash?
            moron.

            Truth is found in the commonalities, not differences.

            Jesus was the messiah
            He rebuked the Pharisees and Sadducees
            He welcomed lepers, widows, prostitutes, and outcasts
            He died on the cross
            He resurrected
            And he will return again

            This is their testimony that they willingly died for

            [...]
            Being a threat is what got Jesus killed
            Fool

            >"Slaves, obey your earthly master
            He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want. They want people to hear of Jesus and do his will

            >He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want.
            Which implies that the verse justifying slavery is against Christianity itself and only included for political concerns.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Directly contradicts
            >>"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
            Explain to me how this verse contradicts the claim that Jesus wants to save the slaver just as much as the slave.
            And you stated here:

            [...]
            Conflicting details do not disprove the event

            We have 3 witnesses to a car crash.
            One says the car is yellow, the other claims it is black, and the other claims it is green

            Does that mean there was no car crash?
            moron.

            Truth is found in the commonalities, not differences.

            Jesus was the messiah
            He rebuked the Pharisees and Sadducees
            He welcomed lepers, widows, prostitutes, and outcasts
            He died on the cross
            He resurrected
            And he will return again

            This is their testimony that they willingly died for

            [...]
            Being a threat is what got Jesus killed
            Fool

            >"Slaves, obey your earthly master
            He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want. They want people to hear of Jesus and do his will

            That wasn't me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Explain to me how this verse contradicts the claim that Jesus wants to save the slaver just as much as the slave.
            Telling slaves to obey their master is the DEFINITION of justifying slavery.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            We have to look deeper at the "justification" here, Christ commands us to forgive our oppressors, enslaved peoples are the ones that need to exert this commandment the most, they more than anyone, if they are Christian, must forgive their enemies. If St. Paul had told the slaves to rise up and kill their slavers, he would've betrayed everything Christ taught, plus, killing the slavers takes away from them the possibility of repentance.

            Thus we can see that St. Paul is not commanding obedience to the enslaved because slavery is good and moral, but because in doing so they would be fulfilling the most important duty of a Christian, later in the verse he comforts the slaves by assuring them that they and their masters have the same Lord in heaven, so any and all evil that their masters enact upon them, if they dont' repent, will be punished for in the afterlife.

            >N-NO I LITERALLY CAN'T FORGIVE YOU WITHOUT KILLING MYSELF
            >S-STOP LAUGHING!

            He could have, but it would've been unjust.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >justice is when you have a nice day
            lmao

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Christ's sacrifice wasnt' an act of justice, it was an act of mercy.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What's so merciful about sacrificing a weekend?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That otherwise, without God's sacrifice, all of humanity would've been left to face the consequences of its endless sins, utter destruction.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah it's quite inconvenient that supergod created all these convoluted rules that god has to follow.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            An crime must be paid by those who committed it. That's us.
            God loves us, so He takes for Himself the punishment that should've rightfully gone to us.

            Seems pretty straightforward to me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >An crime must be paid by those who committed it. That's us.
            >God loves us, so He takes for Himself the punishment that should've rightfully gone to us.
            That sounds straightforwardly unjust.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because it isn't. It's about mercy, not justice. God's plan is not about justice, if that were the case, God would've wiped us all out long ago and started from zero. God's plan is about showing love, forgiveness, and mercy.

            But if you don't like it and want justice and nothing else, feel free to take for yourself the punishment for your own sins (that is, Hell), no one will stop you, God certainly won't.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're missing the point, moron. If it's not a matter of justice, then the forgiveness doesn't require some moronic sacrifice. But if it is a matter of justice, the sacrifice is unjust because it gets people off the hook.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God is a just King
            What kind of King does not follow his own rules?
            An unjust king, that's what

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >according to my rules, everyone who doesn't follow rules that are impossible to follow burns in magical lava forever
            >but if I kill myself, those who believe I incarnated as a rabbi won't burn in magical lava
            >this is because I took their punishment upon myself
            >yeah their punishment was eternity in magical lava? oh sorry, I didn't take that upon myself
            >just took a nap for a couple days
            >if you don't believe this, enjoy magical lava
            kek

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He did took that though
            Hence why it took him 3 days to return back to life

            You see, before the Messiah, every soul went to hell
            There is no heaven. Just hell.
            It is believed that when the Messiah died, he went straight into hell
            There, he proclaimed the victory of good and liberated the just souls out of hell.

            Hell is empty now except for the souls who refused him

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            3 days is not the same as eternity.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He did took that though
            An eternity in hell? Because if he took that punishment, then he's still there and will stay there forever.

            His blood was enough to pay for that eternity, mate
            Our definition of eternity is vastly different from them. We define eternity as just one day after another
            To them, eternity is not bounded by time. No past, present, or future. Just eternity.
            It is incomprehensible to us but it is what it is

            lol, why would people in hell refuse Jesus? are they moronic?

            Same reason for the fall of the Angels
            They don't want to be humble and follow his command of serving others. They just want to do whatever they want and force others to serve their whims and fancies

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >His blood was enough to pay for that eternity
            Now you're pivoting to a different argument - you're no longer claiming that he received the same punishment, but rather that his blood annulled the punishment altogether without it being inflicted.
            Which is it?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >They just want to do whatever they want and force others to serve their whims and fancies
            they can't do this, though
            they are literally trapped in magic lava prison

            why wouldn't they go along with Jesus' jailbreak from hell? That way they'd be free to do the things they want to do

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >No past, present, or future. Just eternity.
            None of this applies to jesus' alleged stopover in hell. And yet that doesn't stop him from damning any human since then that is unsure of which religion is right to an eternity of punishment that he was unwilling to endure for himself.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Until he comes back, we won't know what truly happened. But his nature is just and truth
            Whatever happened, it was enough to liberate hell, save mankind, and still have enough for anyone who wishes to be saved

            >They just want to do whatever they want and force others to serve their whims and fancies
            they can't do this, though
            they are literally trapped in magic lava prison

            why wouldn't they go along with Jesus' jailbreak from hell? That way they'd be free to do the things they want to do

            Hell is already the place where they are free to do what they want to do. And they want to make humans suffer because they cannot get to God, but they can get the ones he loves the most - us

            Geez. We are made in God's image.
            We are poor copies of him
            If your heart tells you that something is not right, then chances are God says that that is wicked

            God is just. God is love.
            He will never do something unfair

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You seriously think rapists in hell gets to rape people forever?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hey, buddy
            Hell is not ruled by God
            It is ruled by Angels who hate us. You know, the Angel who is just next to God?

            The reason why Heaven is great is because it is an inverted kingdom. The one at the top is the one who serves. Because we are at the bottom, God serves us like a doctor and the angels serve us like kind big brothers.
            They are in charge but at the same time, their focus is on our well-being.

            Hell is the opposite of that
            They want humans to serve them and they want to defile God's image

            >If your heart tells you that something is not right, then chances are God says that that is wicked
            What if my heart tells me that Yahweh's conduct is not right? Let me guess, that means I'm wicked.
            How then would I recognize whether I've got the correct religion or if I'm wicked?

            You cannot do that because Yahweh already came in the flesh
            Can you find anything unjust with Jesus?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Can you find anything unjust with Jesus?
            My heart tells me that telling people to kill little children is not right. You on the other hand think that it is right. How do we resolve this disagreement?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus never said that

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but God said so in the OT. So either Jesus said it, or Jesus isn't God.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If your heart tells you that something is not right, then chances are God says that that is wicked
            What if my heart tells me that Yahweh's conduct is not right? Let me guess, that means I'm wicked.
            How then would I recognize whether I've got the correct religion or if I'm wicked?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If your heart tells you that something is not right
            My heart has always told me that the christian idea of god is not right. So much so that I have, on multiple occasions, asked to be struck down if it is true. And I'm not talking about in the atheist "haha, god isn't real and couldn't do anything to me" sort of way. I know that one or more Gods do exist. And I innately find the god presented by christianity, and really abrahamism in general, to be so fundamentally abhorrent that I would rather be punished for being "wrong" than worship a fiend such as that.
            Fortunately for all of us, abrahamism isn't true. The Gods actually are benevolent and we're all going to make it. Even the abrahamists that currently blaspheme them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Our God is Jesus
            Jesus did nothing wrong

            Your idea of Abrahamic God is something you made on your own and does not reflect ours

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your jesus would condemn to eternal suffering any who are not 100% convinced of the truth of your religion. While giving a single life to pass this shit test.
            That is not the behavior of a God and it is blasphemous to even suggest that it is.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He did took that though
            An eternity in hell? Because if he took that punishment, then he's still there and will stay there forever.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lol, why would people in hell refuse Jesus? are they moronic?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So, again, you're arguing that Jesus was aware that slavery is evil but they defend it anyway out of political expediency. That's a pretty wild take.

            What you're forgetting is that Jesus came to save the slaver as well as the slave, God loves the oppressor just as much as the oppressed and He wants them to be saved too, which is why Jesus commands us to love and forgive our oppressors and just rise against them and kill them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >save mankind
            from what?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sin, damnation, death, destruction.
            You get it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            His death only even theoretically saves anyone from one of those things. And it's the one thing that he, allegedly being god himself, would have authority over regardless of whether or not he had sacrificed himself to himself.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >His death only even theoretically saves anyone from one of those things.
            Sin leads to death, which is damnation, death is destruction. They're all link to one another.
            Christ's sacrifice forgives us from our sins, thus freeing us from the damnation of death, which is destruction.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Everyone dies, christanon. But my point was actually that sin, death, and destruction have continued unabated for the two millennia since jesus was crucified. And not even being a devout christian shields you from these things.
            Also,
            >Christ's sacrifice forgives us from our sins
            First of all, this is completely unnecessary for an omnipotent being. Your god should, in theory, have no limitations or requirements on his capacity to forgive. Also, what sins? Even setting aside that anything that man does is the consequence of how we were created, humanity should only need this sort of thing is we are incapable of living without sin through our own power. It necessitates a belief that mankind is inherently, inescapably evil. How is that any better than the nihilism of buddhism?

            https://i.imgur.com/zMIUMaa.png

            FALSE
            Christianity is not some numbers game where 1 evil deed can be undone by 2 good deeds. No, Heaven cannot be bought by giving alms
            The Old testament states that the only way to repay debt (sin) is to spill blood. But there exists no blood on Earth good enough to repay anyone's sin.
            A white sheep is good enough only for 1 single year

            There has to be a sacrifice because God is not an enabler. He is a just king. If you commit a sin, you must pay. But, as it stands, we cannot really pay anything and are supposed to go to hell.

            The point of Jesus is to deliver that blood debt. A divine blood that is so good, so perfect, it is enough to repay all the debts of mankind and still have enough to pay for those still yet to be born.

            One just needs to accept it

            >create life
            >make it flawed and evil
            >deny it even the capability to atone for its own sins
            >"just king"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But my point was actually that sin, death, and destruction have continued unabated for the two millennia since jesus was crucified.
            The wages of sin have already been paid with Christ's sacrifice. The book of Revelation tells us that Death itself will be destroyed when Christ returns.
            >And not even being a devout christian shields you from these things.
            They will be raised again and be granted eternal life. Just like Jesus.
            >Your god should, in theory, have no limitations or requirements on his capacity to forgive.
            Sure, but that would make Him unjust. God doesn't forgive our sins without Christ because He lacks the capacity to do so, it's not like Christ's sacrifice allowed God to do something He previously couldn't, He could have forgiven us without Christ's sacrifice, but doing so would have meant that God was unjust, passive, and indulgent towards evil.
            >Even setting aside that anything that man does is the consequence of how we were created
            >Predeterminism
            Cringe.
            >humanity should only need this sort of thing is we are incapable of living without sin through our own power.
            We are.
            >It necessitates a belief that mankind is inherently, inescapably evil.
            It is.
            >How is that any better than the nihilism of buddhism?
            Because we've given hope, there is salvation, there is redemption, there is forgiveness. Humanity is not hopeless in the face of its own evil, we can be saved, we can be restored, we can be made pure and holy again. I don't know about Buddhism, but that is the hope that there is in Christianity.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >when Christ returns
            Two more millennia.
            >They will be raised again and be granted eternal life.
            Not only does that not contradict what I said, it also doesn't justify how jesus' execution specifically is supposed to have accomplished any of that.
            >but that would make Him unjust
            You've got it backwards. An omnipotent being forgiving its creations for the flaws it created them with without qualification or restriction is the only just way to go about it.
            >predeterminism is cringe
            I agree. Yet another reason why christianity is gay.
            >humanity is evil
            Then so is our creator for having made us that way.

            God had, and He seflessly did.
            [...]
            Ok? We're not israelites.

            >We're not israelites.
            Coulda fooled me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Two more millennia.
            No one knows the day or the hour.
            >Not only does that not contradict what I said, it also doesn't justify how jesus' execution specifically is supposed to have accomplished any of that.
            By taking for Himself the punishment for all of mankind's sins, He freed all of mankind from that fate. Just like someone laying down his life to receive the death sentence that would've otherwise gone to someone else. It's really not that complicated.
            An omnipotent being forgiving its creations for the flaws it created them with
            He didn't. We damned ourselves.
            >Yet another reason why christianity is gay.
            So I take it that you've never heard of Calvinism.
            >Then so is our creator for having made us that way.
            God didn't make us this way, remember the Garden of Eden? That is humanity's original state.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >No one knows the day or the hour.
            lmao. I'm sure your dad is going to come back any day now.
            >By taking for Himself...
            Except none of this is necessary for an omnipotent creator and it has also provably not worked. Whether or not there is some salvation later on down the line does not change the fact that jesus' execution changed nothing.
            >He didn't. We damned ourselves.
            >God didn't make us this way
            Free will is inherently incompatible with a creator that is both omnipotent and omniscient. A god like that would know everything that its creations would do before it even created them and would therefore be responsible for everything those creations inevitably did.
            >So I take it that you've never heard of Calvinism.
            I have heard of it. It is simultaneously incredibly gay and also a logical conclusion to the christian concept of god. Therefore, christianity itself is gay.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            FALSE
            Christianity is not some numbers game where 1 evil deed can be undone by 2 good deeds. No, Heaven cannot be bought by giving alms
            The Old testament states that the only way to repay debt (sin) is to spill blood. But there exists no blood on Earth good enough to repay anyone's sin.
            A white sheep is good enough only for 1 single year

            There has to be a sacrifice because God is not an enabler. He is a just king. If you commit a sin, you must pay. But, as it stands, we cannot really pay anything and are supposed to go to hell.

            The point of Jesus is to deliver that blood debt. A divine blood that is so good, so perfect, it is enough to repay all the debts of mankind and still have enough to pay for those still yet to be born.

            One just needs to accept it

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you owe me, but I'll get myself killed and then we'll be even
            This is so moronic.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I take it that the concept of forgiving debts is foreign to you?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I usually don't have to kill myself to forgive debts, moron.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God had, and He seflessly did.

            This framing of how debt "should" work between creator and created explains why israeli parents are so infamous for using guilt against their children.

            Ok? We're not israelites.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >N-NO I LITERALLY CAN'T FORGIVE YOU WITHOUT KILLING MYSELF
            >S-STOP LAUGHING!

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This framing of how debt "should" work between creator and created explains why israeli parents are so infamous for using guilt against their children.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            YES!
            It is "His" blood which is enough sacrifice so you won't have to spill yours

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's moronic. You're forgetting Jesus is addressing a crowd of listeners when he says this.
            Jesus did not know the day or the hour, only the Father knows, so from His perspective His generation might as well could have been the final generation, but He wasn't sure. That's why He was warning them as well.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Jesus is unique. He is the one and ONLY God who loves everyone so much he is willing to descend down our level and die for us.
            Again, Jesus never existed.
            Also it's telling you haven't even tried to respond to this:
            [...]

            Conflicting details do not disprove the event

            We have 3 witnesses to a car crash.
            One says the car is yellow, the other claims it is black, and the other claims it is green

            Does that mean there was no car crash?
            moron.

            Truth is found in the commonalities, not differences.

            Jesus was the messiah
            He rebuked the Pharisees and Sadducees
            He welcomed lepers, widows, prostitutes, and outcasts
            He died on the cross
            He resurrected
            And he will return again

            This is their testimony that they willingly died for

            https://i.imgur.com/c2zxpSA.jpeg

            Christianity in no way threatens the ruling class. If anything, it serves their interests exactly.
            >Ephesians 6:1 says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ".

            Also
            Matthew 22:21
            >Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

            Christianity is a TOOL OF CONTROL for the ruling class. That's one of the main reasons its survived this long. It promotes slave morality amongst the masses which is always a good thing for those in charge.

            Being a threat is what got Jesus killed
            Fool

            >"Slaves, obey your earthly master
            He did this because Christianity has already grown so big and so fast, it became a major political concern. Rebellion is not what they want. They want people to hear of Jesus and do his will

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The existence of fanfictions does not disprove the event
            If you believe that it never occurred, then you'll have to provide an alternative origin for this wide-reaching political and societal movement that refused to be crushed

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Do you believe the Epic of Gilgamesh literally occurred? That Gilgamesh/Enkidu went to the underworld and fought giant monsters? No? Well, the Mesopotamians of the time certainly did. They worshipped the Gods described in that story as the gospel truth. Take from that what you will.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not even them believe it,dumbass
            It's a prehistoric literary genre wherein there is no such thing as fiction or non-fiction. Just semi fiction which real historic events turned into plays because that's the only way to keep tales preserve

            NT is a different literary genre. It's a testimony, not a play and can be judged accordingly

            >you'll have to provide an alternative origin for this wide-reaching political and societal movement that refused to be crushed

            And surely you have an explanation for why Buddhism and Islam are so popular in spite of being false religions, right?

            Man-made doesn't mean it won't be popular

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You really believe that the ancient Mesopotamians didn't take their religious texts/Gods seriously? What possible evidence could you have for that?
            Also, again, the New Testament isn't a "testimony" - it's at best historical fiction

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The fact that the same cliches have existed throughout the land
            Jesus is unique. He is the one and ONLY God who loves everyone so much he is willing to descend down our level and die for us.

            This a stark difference
            Gods are meant to be glorified. Not humiliated on a cross. Yet, here we are

            >it's at best historical fiction
            A fiction that threatened the ruling classes yet they cannot disprove it.
            A fiction that the witnesses gladly died for

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Jesus is unique. He is the one and ONLY God who loves everyone so much he is willing to descend down our level and die for us.
            Again, Jesus never existed.
            Also it's telling you haven't even tried to respond to this:

            https://i.imgur.com/ClbYMXW.png

            >Why would people under occupation write a story that encourages them to stay oppressed and downtrodden?
            Did you miss the part where Jesus promised them an eternal reward in the afterlife? The writers of the New Testament (slash "Jesus") also believed the world was literally coming to an end in their lifetimes.

            Matthew 24:34
            >Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

            When you actually read the context of Matthew, you realize Jesus was dead wrong in that prediction. All the worldwide apocalyptic shit that he promised his followers would witness obviously didn't occur in their lifetimes. I've heard some Christians go so far as to cope and say that there are currently thousands of year old israelites who were there to witness it walking around in secret, but that's pretty pathetic even as far as "exegesis" goes.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Christianity in no way threatens the ruling class. If anything, it serves their interests exactly.
            >Ephesians 6:1 says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ".

            Also
            Matthew 22:21
            >Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

            Christianity is a TOOL OF CONTROL for the ruling class. That's one of the main reasons its survived this long. It promotes slave morality amongst the masses which is always a good thing for those in charge.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
            The point of this was to say that worldly things like taxes and tribute have nothing to do with God. God wants your faith. If Caesar wants tribute, then pay him. You can't take any of this with you to heaven anyway, so it doesn't matter how it comes or how it goes.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's one of the main reasons its survived this long.
            It's also the reason why, of all the wacky eastern cults the Romans flirted with, it was the one that the Roman ruling class ran with and eventually legally enforced.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you'll have to provide an alternative origin for this wide-reaching political and societal movement that refused to be crushed

            And surely you have an explanation for why Buddhism and Islam are so popular in spite of being false religions, right?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Actual bot. I've seen you on /x/.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >if I disagree with you, you are a bot

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes. But credible is doing a lot of work here. What does credible entail? How doe sone reach credibility?

      The Veddas are much older than the gospels, does this make the Veddas true?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Buddha's teachings have been passed down for even longer are at least as applicable to real life people today.

      https://i.imgur.com/OLHn12T.jpeg

      No lol
      Devils have always existed from the very beginning. In fact, Magicians of the pharaohs can do miracles like Moses
      The golden rule applies in everything - "Judge the tree by its fruit"

      God's miracles are intent on making people repent, do good, and worship Christ.
      If your miracle ends up making people worship idols, do self-harm, and sacrifice babies, then you have to start asking questions

      Just look at New Age. They claim that it leads them to do paranormal things like being able to predict the future. But the fact that they are filled with narcissists and self-righteous individuals guarantee that it ain't God at work

      >"Judge the tree by its fruit"
      You're absolutely right. And by this metric, abrahamism is clearly the work of fiends.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Buddism teaches you that the impoverished got what they deserve from their previous karma. It's all righteous retribution. Just do meditate all day

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Buddha told you to see life as a burden to escape from, and promised nothing after death but more suffering. At best, Budhism is a nihilist cope.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Buddha told you to see life as a burden to escape from
          It can very much be

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And christians believe that humanity is evil and must beg for forgiveness from the entity that created us that way. Both religions have an extremely negative view of the physical world, life, and humanity. Which is probably why they're also both pacifist death cults.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No it doesn't Buddha calls for soul-suicide
            Jesus calls for salvation

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >salvation
            The christian concept of "salvation" is apologizing for your existence to the one who created you. The moral philosophy and end goal of both buddhism and christianity are awful.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The moral philosophy and end goal of both buddhism and christianity are awful.
            That's a value judgement on your part, which is irrelevant.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            YES!
            That's how this works
            Every other religion says that you need to work for your salvation

            Christianity says it is free. Just repent from your wicked ways.
            You do not apologize to God, you apologize to the being who made you, loves you, and died for you just to save you from your own wicked ways
            Anyone, no matter how evil, can be redeemed. Just repent and recognize that you are wrong

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Every other religion says that you need to work for your salvation
            Shin Buddhism at least does not. And I'm sure there's others.
            Also, having to work for your salvation is only inherently wrong if mankind is being brutally judged by the omnipotent creator that made them wrong on purpose. If either the creator/creators is not omnipotent or does not punish mankind for the imperfections we were created with then having to work towards salvation is conceptually fine.
            >the being who made you
            And made us wicked, apparently.
            >loves you
            Punishing a creature for the flaws you created them with is not love.
            >and died for you just to save you from your own wicked ways
            This isn't even internally logical. The god of abraham is allegedly omnipotent. The entire song and dance of incarnating as a human to be executed as if god sacrificing himself to himself is a requirement for man's salvation is total nonsense.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No lol
    Devils have always existed from the very beginning. In fact, Magicians of the pharaohs can do miracles like Moses
    The golden rule applies in everything - "Judge the tree by its fruit"

    God's miracles are intent on making people repent, do good, and worship Christ.
    If your miracle ends up making people worship idols, do self-harm, and sacrifice babies, then you have to start asking questions

    Just look at New Age. They claim that it leads them to do paranormal things like being able to predict the future. But the fact that they are filled with narcissists and self-righteous individuals guarantee that it ain't God at work

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If your miracle ends up making people worship idols, do self-harm, and sacrifice babies

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You heard me
        Good trees do not produce bad fruits

        Every religion can produce any miracle they want.
        Only ONE religion spends their time helping the poor

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Only ONE religion spends their time helping the poor
          Bold statement, are you sure you want to die on this hill? It won't be easy to defend it, you have been warned

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Eat shit

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >nearly 30%
            >nearly 20%
            Oh, so someone else is in charge of the majority?

            Also
            >Christianity is good because a lot of Africans are now Christian
            Hahahaha

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Only ONE religion spends their time helping the poor
          Islam?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >if we do a miracle, it proves we are sent by God
      >if they do a miracle, it proves they are sent by the Devil

      Okay, this is an unfalsifiable and clearly biased type of logic, but it makes sense in and of itself.

      Only one problem now: your local priest probably cannot move mountains, multiply loaves of bread or raise the dead, so... what does that say about his legitimacy?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God wants us to crucify ourselves though.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No he didn't
        He wants us to uphold the truth, even if it gets us crucified

        Not him, but God said so in the OT. So either Jesus said it, or Jesus isn't God.

        Jesus already said
        "That law was not written by Moses but by your ancestors"
        Yes, Jesus testifies that OT has been tampered with
        There is no need to make assumptions about a God who already came in the flesh. Anything that does not align with him is obsolete.

        I don't make the rules here

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Jesus already said
          >"That law was not written by Moses but by your ancestors"
          Verse?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >“I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. 22Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. 23Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? 24Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

            Jesus is testifying that circumcision, one of the most fundamental things in israeli culture, was made up by people who are not related to Moses
            If they would tamper with something this vital, then what else did they tamper with?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's saying that circumcision came before Moses, not that it was made up after him, you illiterate mong.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            uh, duh!
            The difference is that circumcision became an absolute part of israeli customs wherein every single israelite must be circumcised.

            While in other areas, only the priests and royals get cut

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Stop being moronic. You took a verse saying that circumcision came from Abraham instead of Moses and reinterpreted it as saying that the Tanakh is fake.
            You are not a reasonable person.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're missing the point of that passage. Some israelites (probably most in jesus' time) take the sabbath super seriously. To the extent that they could conceivably be upset at someone for healing the sick on the sabbath. But jesus is arguing that they already allow circumcision on the sabbath so there are clearly acceptable exceptions that could reasonably be extended to the messiah healing the sick on the sabbath. It says nothing about any existing hebrew traditions or laws being invalid. Instead it is an argument that jesus' actions are valid within those laws and traditions.

            Eh, ok then.
            I'll still keep my opinion that it's been tampered by the fact that many things do not align with archeological evidence

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're missing the point of that passage. Some israelites (probably most in jesus' time) take the sabbath super seriously. To the extent that they could conceivably be upset at someone for healing the sick on the sabbath. But jesus is arguing that they already allow circumcision on the sabbath so there are clearly acceptable exceptions that could reasonably be extended to the messiah healing the sick on the sabbath. It says nothing about any existing hebrew traditions or laws being invalid. Instead it is an argument that jesus' actions are valid within those laws and traditions.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ?si=IF0Bs-QTNF-eyjUY

    Fedoras are so moronic it's uncanny.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DIY miracle kit

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, they just say it's satanic

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wouldn't that dismantle the Christian idea that miracles stem solely from faith in Jesus Christ?
    This is not a "Christian idea" nor has Christianity ever claimed that there are only miracles in Christianity or by the power of Jesus.
    The Bible acknolwedges that there are other powers at play that may give signs and wonders, it even has instructions to identify the good from the bad.
    >“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.
    Deuteronomy 13:1-3
    The priests of Pharaoh are able to replicate the miracles of Aaron.
    >Then the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Prove yourselves by working a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and cast it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.’” So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the LORD commanded. Aaron cast down his staff before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and they, the magicians of Egypt, also did the same by their secret arts. For each man cast down his staff, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. Still Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
    Exodus 7:8-13
    (1/2)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And in the end times, the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be able to work miracles to deceive people.
      >Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
      Revelation 13:11-15
      (2/2)

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is no need to find Apollonius of Tyana, he's here.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Radiochan

    you wouldn't believe it anyway.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only way you can get a credible report of a miracle is if it is approved by the Church. If you dismantle the idea of the Church, then right there you undermine your ability to produce a credible report.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. That would just be evidence of demons.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who says that miracles stem solely from faith in Jesus Christ?

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There are no credible reports of any miracles...

    ...oh.

    I see what you did there.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can't find credible reports about miracles, that's the point.
    Miracles only exist in far away history where they can't be proven.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It takes 5 approvals from a psychologist before an exorcism can be performed
      Father Ripper has lots of interviews on YouTube about it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >psychologist
        Are those who "heal" underage boys by prescribing cutting their dicks off?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, how did you know??

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You are not obligated to believe in anything
          But rest assured that the Church's task is to be the biggest skeptic around

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    every miracle outside of my own is false and satanic or something
    also jesus doesnt wash his hands lol based cool story (he scratches his ass when the 12 disciples arent watching)

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What do you mean by "miracle" though? Do you mean any supernatural act or are you using accurate definitions in that it is a supernatural act specifically from God alone? A wizard going around doing sorceries isn't evidence of miracles; it's evidence of sorcery. Same case for pagan diviners or how Buddhist monks can levitate and such. It affirms their own faith but I don't think it really disproves Christianity seeing how Christians do tend to believe that witchcraft exists and that pagan gods do exist; what they disagree about is whether they are worthy of reverence. If you find some historical document of a viking going around and smiting combatants with a hammer and lightning bolts shot out of it then yeah that's evidence of their own faith.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Miracles don't prove anything

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The ONLY miracle that makes or breaks the faith is the resurrection.

    If another can self-resurrect, then the real pivotal "leap of faith" for Christianity is gone.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The funniest thing is that some early idiot pope wrote about the phoenix (as if it was a real animal, which Greco-Romans believed) and took it as proof that resurrection is possible and so his religion must be true.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ah, it was Pope Clement of course:
        "Let us consider the marvelous sign which is seen in the regions of the east, that is, in the parts about Arabia.
        There is a bird, which is named the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years; and when it hath now reached the time of its dissolution that it should die, it maketh for itself a coffin of frankincense and myrrh and the other spices, into the which in the fullness of time it entereth, and so it dieth.
        But, as the flesh rotteth, a certain worm is engendered, which is nurtured from the moisture of the dead creature and putteth forth wings. Then, when it is grown lusty, it taketh up that coffin where are the bones of its parent, and carrying them journeyeth from the country of Arabia even unto Egypt, to the place called the City of the Sun; and in the daytime in the sight of all, flying to the altar of the Sun, it layeth them thereupon; and this done, it setteth forth to return. So the priests examine the registers of the times, and they find that it hath come when the five hundredth year is completed.
        Do we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise? "

        • 3 weeks ago
          Hitler Peace
      • 3 weeks ago
        Hitler Peace

        >The ONLY miracle that makes or breaks the faith is the resurrection.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Hitler Peace

      >Yellow Press

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It wouldn't make a difference because Abrahamists are trained against seeing miracles done by other religions as valid
    >satan masquerades as an angel of light
    >your "gods" are demons and your holy men are bobbing through eternal magma lol
    >i would need evidence that your religion's stories actually happened

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Abrahamists are trained against seeing miracles done by other
      Okay, but you could convince people who aren't die-hard Abrahamists

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    maybe God just has multiple personality disorder and all Gods in all religions is the same one?

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's pretty conclusive evidence that israelites have performed miracles. This means that miracles can be performed by non-Christians.

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