>in the old testament angels do not have free will. >in the new testament they suddenly do because...

>in the old testament angels do not have free will
>in the new testament they suddenly do because... THEY JUST DO, OKAY???

This is dumb. Satan "rebelling" is dumb, "the war in heaven" is dumb. Nonsensical.

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I didn’t realise Paradise Lost and the Book of Mormon were New Testament canon

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>>/x/

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are ignorant if you think Milton was the first to write about this

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What about things actually in the bible though

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Luke 10:18

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Now find something in the Old Testament. You're kind of proving my point.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Isaiah 14:12

            I know what you’re driving at but you’re not gonna find the fully explicated myth in the bible anymore than you’ll get fully explicated myths in Homer. That’s not how mythology works; it references things, which also exist alongside oral tradition. That Milton was the first to write a complete epic does not mean these ideas weren’t percolating. The Argonautica was only written in the 2nd century BC, but you would never suggest that the story of Jason and the Argo was invented with this publication.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I've heard that the figure being described here is actually a human king. Do you know anything about that?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I’ve heard that as well and it’s quite plausible. I’m not here to argue what it does or does not mean, because these things are open to interpretation, and many people throughout the ages have interpreted a reference to some war in heaven (remember there’s a lot of apocalyptic stuff that isn’t in the bible that would have informed some readings). And yes I also think it’s stupid and contrived. It’s it’s there and it’s a tradition that Milton was completing, not inaugurating

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can look it up yourself. I just read a literal translation of the entire chapter (sans Ye Olde English fluff) and it definitely sounds like they're talking about a human despot who died.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That’s a human

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The verse Milton was mainly inspired by is literally Old Testament, so OP is still a dumbass.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        War in Heaven is a completely extra biblical invention, Lucifer the fallen angel is Biblical however.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is technically correct but we need to remember that the corpus of judeo-Christianity is much more than just the bible. It is all the stuff that didn’t “make the cut” and it is all of the oral tradition that was never written down at all. The formation of mythology is not like the publication of a book, these things happen concurrently and organically. Canon comes much later and is forced from above

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (Revelation 12:7-8)

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >NT

            It's like no one replying actually read the OP or something

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wasn't replying to OP, moron.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine if the israelites knew all along just like every other religion that there’s no free will but everything happens according to the will of God. So then what if they created the idea that man has free will and is to blame for his actions, people that believed that would really struggle with life and with themselves for no good reason. But remember it’s all the will of God, so who is really free and who is actually trapped in delusion and misery.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wrong. What makes man unique and different from the rest of God's creation is that we do have the ability to choose, to a degree.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What makes you think anything is really separate from anything else? You don’t exist in a vacuum.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's no proof for the existence of Satan or angels or god, who cares. Might as well be arguing over whether or not the Greek gods really fought the Titans

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >atheist enters religious thread

      You must be a sexual masochist or something, to keep doing this

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Genesis 6 shows the angels do have free will because they begot the nephilim.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    > free will
    dumb. Nonsensical.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In the Old Testament Satan is working with God and sitting at his table. Marcion was right all along, you who have ears to hear…

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Satan "rebelling" is dumb, "
    That's why it's in the Quran and NOT in the Bible

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