Industrialized North and Rural South

How did Northern Italy become one of the most Industrialized regions in the world while the South remained rural?

Was it always like this?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Was it always like this?
    at some point north-east italians were poor cat eaters and Naples/Sicily were more developed but overall north always more industrialized and south more agrarian

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's true:
      >I veneziani son' gran signori
      >I bolognesi gran dottori
      >i vicentini mangaian gatti
      >i veronesi son tutti matti

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I've heard the second line with both bolognesi and padovani. both fit because of their medieval universities.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    'Ndrangheta and Camorra make $72 billion on average in revenue. They are are as wealthy as most companies in S&P 100.

    If you think Northern Italy doesn't benefit with Mafia money you are moronic

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >In 2007, Italian anti-organized crime agencies estimated that the 'Ndrangheta has an annual revenue of about € 35–40 billion (US$35–40 billion), which amounts to approximately 3.5% of the GDP of Italy.[28][44] This comes mostly from illegal drug trafficking, but also from ostensibly legal businesses such as construction, restaurants and supermarkets.[25] The 'Ndrangheta has a strong grip on the economy and governance in Calabria. According to a leaked US Embassy cable, the 'Ndrangheta controls huge segments of its territory and economy, and accounts for at least three percent of Italy's GDP through drug trafficking, extortion, skimming of public contracts, and usury.[45]
      Jesus Christ

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How did Northern Italy become one of the most Industrialized regions in the world
    It didn't.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They are the 8th most Industrialized country in the planet, mainly because of Northern Italy. You are either trolling or just moronic.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The second. What's the metric here?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cope, it did

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think one part of it is that the city state model in the north produced more competition and a reason to engage in trade and commerce. It’s also closer to the European core. The south has been under the control of distant and uninterested monarchies since the 1200s and was just a place to squeeze revenue out of. It was just a place to squeeze resources out of the finance distant wars. Then when Southern Italy was united on its own, it was ruled by reactionary monarches who weren’t keen on industrializing because it’s a destabilizing force.
    Then, into the modern era of a united Italy, it was heavily dominated by the north, specially by the Piedmontese. The north was already more urbanized and that’s where all the important politicans are, so just put the industrial shit there. But it’s also important to remember that any kickbacks set south went into the pockets of corrupt politicians and not to industrializing or strengthening the economy. Southern politicians, while not the center of Italy, got plenty of kickbacks to earn their votes, but it was never used to actually help people.
    So those are just a few contributing factors among others from a moron just rambling.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Monarchies in the 1200s have no bearing on industrialization

      Belgium was ruled by some rebel administrators and the Dutch and Belgians fought an 80 year war against the Spanish and Belgium heavily industrialized the first

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Notice how in my post I use the word “since” so that my post says “since the 1200s.” The word “since” is used to mean that a thing has taken place of is continuing to take place from one point in time to another. Then notice that I also talk about disinterested and reactionary monarches later on like in the 1800s.
        With context clues and by reading the word “since” you can put together what I’m saying in my post: that 600+ years of poor and exploitative government negatively affected the region’s economy up until unification.
        Also notice in my post that I said it is “one” contributing factor among other things. Context clues should be able to help you out.
        Let me know if you have trouble understanding any other words in my posts.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No argument

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Thank you for conceding without any argument, I accept my victory

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i accept your concession

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Monarchies in the 1200s have no bearing on industrialization
        They do. In the negative way.
        European verrtical progress starting during Renaissance and industrialisation happened in areas with weak monarchy powers. In the areas full of semi independent cities or straight up city states, feudal fragmentation weakening central monarch power was very important ingredient of the progress in Europe.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >uh yeah dud, the english monarchy in the 1200s had a real true effect on the indussial revolussion das a a hissorical fact

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >reading comprehension

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >logic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >reading comprehension

            >valuable contribution

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Shit theory

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It’s also closer to the European core.
      Correct. It’s part of the “Blue Banana” region.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >even Sardinia has some industry but not Terronia
    It's 100% due to their subhumanity

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Naples has industry right there on the map
      >CAPTCHA: RWDOG
      RAWDOG LOL

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This map is both cherrypicked and only shows corporate headquarters in the first place, so it wouldn't show for example the STMicro fabs in Catania.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Southern italy is a shithole with crime, stinks like garbage, trash everywhere, people drive like maniacs, laze around all day doing nothing, and eat bland food.
    I'd unironically rather holiday in the central Congo.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >and eat bland food.
      qrd?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Southern italian food is really shitty and bland peasant food. The good stuff is up north. Southern Italians will just chop up tomatoes or fish and toss it on bread or with some noodles and call that cooking.
        They don't reduce or concentrate anything even with those simple flavors, so its just watery and dilute slop.
        Its like central Asian food except without the few spices. Just boiled or grilled slop plus a few vegetables, peasant crap.
        >inb4: NOOOOOO ITS NOT I READ A BOOOK
        you've never been there

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Southern italy is a shithole with crime, stinks like garbage, trash everywhere, people drive like maniacs, laze around all day doing nothing, and eat bland food.
          I'd unironically rather holiday in the central Congo.

          I had really good pizza while I was there. But Insee what you’re saying about the seafood. But why would you rather go to the congo?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          bro what are you talking about? naples is literally the food capital of italy

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no, definitely not according to non neapolitans
            we make fun of both neapolitan arrogance and food

            the best italian food according to all italians come from aosta and friuli and i'm telling you this as a southern italian

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            False flagging

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i'm not

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, sure.
            List some of the most famous dishes and they all come from the south. What the frick does the north have? Pandoro? That's fricking it.

            Emilia-Romagna has good food.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the best italian food according to all italians come from aosta and friuli
            ???

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the best italian food according to all italians come from aosta and friuli
            Lmao what the frick
            Did you choose them vice style?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Orecchiette with sausage and rapini is one of my favorite dishes and that comes from the south

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            only southern italians hype it up
            the best italian dishes are from the north and the best of the best is from the alps specifically, in the extreme north of italy

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            List a few, preferably pasta dishes. I want to try to make them.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          True. Just look up Michelin star restaurants in Italy

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh, shit. Well if the French say Italian cuisine is bad I guess that settles it.
            Anyway, I gotta go cover my face with a rag and eat a bird whole. See you later.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          > Southern Italians will just chop up tomatoes or fish and toss it on bread or with some noodles and call that cooking.
          Sounds delicious.
          The biggest mistake people make when they're learning to cook is that they think more flavor = more flavorful.
          You can't just keep putting spices and spices on top. You have to consider have the flavors interact with one another.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Southern italian food is really shitty and bland peasant food. The good stuff is up north. Southern Italians will just chop up tomatoes or fish and toss it on bread or with some noodles and call that cooking.
      They don't reduce or concentrate anything even with those simple flavors, so its just watery and dilute slop.
      Its like central Asian food except without the few spices. Just boiled or grilled slop plus a few vegetables, peasant crap.
      >inb4: NOOOOOO ITS NOT I READ A BOOOK
      you've never been there

      no, definitely not according to non neapolitans
      we make fun of both neapolitan arrogance and food

      the best italian food according to all italians come from aosta and friuli and i'm telling you this as a southern italian

      Cope already.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        cat-eater sisters... I don't feel so well...

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >New England
        >Florida

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Florida
          Cuban/Italian diaspora

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The south had the second largest fleet in Europe and was the quickiest developing country before the unification.
    Then the Savoy massonic mercenaries landed in 1861, the kingdom was annexed and looted to kickstart the industry of the subhuman n*rdoids polentoni.

    Thats the truth. Now lets wait for the seething and coping replies from them.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are those locations headquarters or the place of origin?

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How did Northern Italy become one of the most Industrialized regions in the world
    The Alps were the hydroelectric equivalent of english coal. Also more population and closer connection to euro trade equals more prosperous market.
    >Was it always like this?
    More yes than no. Even all the way back in roman times, when the south was rich due to its partecipation in greek mediterranean trade, the north (the veneti especially, but in roman times mediolanum too) was renowned as extremely productive.The Po valley was for all intents and purposes a very fertile highway that favoured high population and trade networks.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is a widely discussed topic in Italy, it's called Questione Meridionale (Meridional Questione).
    In a few words, after WWII the south got shafted by the central government in multiple ways and the far reaching consequences explain the abysall divide we observe today. If you're interested, there's vast literature on the subject.
    It's a complex issue and I fully expect somone to answer with the usual rethoric of "it's just because southerns are subhumans".
    t. Sicilian

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >In a few words, after WWII the south got shafted by the central government in multiple ways
      And why did they do that?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The first time someone formally brought up the disparity between the North and South was 1873. Italy was finally unified in 1861 under the House of Savoy which that far possessed the Duchy of Savoy (roughly today Piemonte, in north-west Italy). What happened then, and it happened since day one, was the exploitation of the South (who had been The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies before the unification) in favor of the North. Industrializing the North only by also using the South resources was a deliberate choice. And the situation never really changed but only became worse, among other things as one can imagine this situation created a widespread distrust of the government in the South (giving rise to Brigantaggio, basically self-styled Robin Hood criminals) created the fertile ground in which mafia prospered.
        This is a very controversial topic even today and I'm not suggesting the North is 100% to blame for the South shortcomings but it is what it is.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why are their PISA scores so much lower?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I can offer some insight on this question, as a I attended a lecture given by a Northern terroni-hating university professor on the subject.
            In Italy we take Prove Invalsi (PISA on a national level) in elementary, middle and high school to evaluate students and schools. As you might expect Northern students do better. However there is one very interesting fact: according to the official data (which anyone can look up) when comparing the North to the South there is no difference in elementary school, the North starts doing better during middle school and the divide becomes great in high school.
            So my professor posed the answer "if southerns are just moronic why do they do equally as well in elementary school and fall off later"? The answer is because of how schools operate, you see there is an open secret in how classes are organized in the south and I can attest to this personally as a sicilian: classes are formed according to the social class of the parents of the students and of course there is favoritism in the education they receive. Yes it's pretty fricked.
            The glaring consequence is that you have classes with the good students and classes and bad students (because their parents don't have the tools to help them or they families are just fricked). In such an environment the low-class students don't have any drive to improve and study because of they suck chances are the the best guy in the class isn't doing much better and the high-class students are just casting off and don't need to put in much effort. This explains why they perform worse when compared to Northern students.
            This reminds me when I was in middle school there was a class where they just dumped everyone who wasn't italian kek

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If they suck
            If they suck*
            >casting
            Coasting*

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If that’s the case why is there a gradation between the north, center, and south. Surely there should be a sharp divide if that were the case. Schools that taught in the manner that you described would see lower scores, while those that did not would see higher scores.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because the issue becomes more prevalent as you go south. The conclusion of this line of thought is that while IQ wise the is no difference what makes Southern students perform worse on average is the Southern culture and way of life.
            Which makes very much sense to me, mostly anyone worth a damn as been fricking off of here for two decades now.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are there any studies showing documenting the transfer of southern students to the north or northern students to the south after middle school to disprove the IQ theory? And why doesn’t the italian central government standardize the class placement? It seems like a simple fix with big rewards

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Are there any studies showing documenting the transfer of southern students to the north or northern students to the south after middle school to disprove the IQ theory?
            Not that I know of. As you might imagine it is a very delicate subject.
            >And why doesn’t the italian central government standardize the class placement? It seems like a simple fix with big reward
            Because Italy doesn't work that way. Of course formally everything is standardized and what I described is straight up anticostitutional, it's just that nobody gives a shit. Sure doesn't stop mommy or daddy from whining to the school where half the personal is either a relative or a friend until she gets her son in the elite class.
            This kind of mentality is a pretty big part of understanding how Italian society works. Having relative and friends is more valuable than any law.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The glaring consequence is that you have classes with the good students and classes and bad students (because their parents don't have the tools to help them or they families are just fricked). In such an environment the low-class students don't have any drive to improve and study because of they suck chances are the the best guy in the class isn't doing much better and the high-class students are just casting off and don't need to put in much effort. This explains why they perform worse when compared to Northern students.
            in france equality is a dogma by the civil servants and so the bad pupils are kept with the good pupils at all cost, and they prevent the good pupils to be very good. And it got worse with wokism since Black folks and arabs are now openly racist.
            The teachers do nothing and repeat that all cultures are equal and Black folks are little angels

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >classes are formed according to the social class of the parents of the students and of course there is favoritism in the education they receive. Yes it's pretty fricked.
            >The glaring consequence is that you have classes with the good students and classes and bad students
            This is a good thing. You want the good students to go to the best schools, so they can excel better.
            If they were put together with the noobs, they would be just dragged down or wouldn't progress as fast as they can.
            You're poor and dumb? Too bad, life isn't fair, and those who have it better shouldn't pay for your misfortune.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This argument would have merit if not for the fact that the Savoia ONLY developed the Milano-Torino-Genova triangle completely shafting the northeast and center just as bad as the south, and yet today Veneto and Emilia are rich as frick while the south is a shithole.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Interesting that the house of Savoy held the title King of Israel as well.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            King of Jerusalem* my bad.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So does the king of Spain and a few other people.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Savoy monarchy ended 78 years ago my dude, Veneto and Emilia benefited from proximity with Milan heavily during the economic boom.

            I'm not denying that terrone culture is cancerous to a large degree but there is also a component of geographic determinism, and it's literally just being far away from the rest of Italy and from Europe because the land in a vacuum is prime. Like for example Sicily has arguably the best natural harbor in the country but at the butt end of Italy without a fixed link it will never be able to live up to its full potential.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >geographic determinism
            Yeah, that's MY point bro. The north/south divide is like 90% geography and 10% long term historical trends.
            All the whining about the Savoia is pure Black person tier victimism.
            >Veneto and Emilia benefited from proximity with Milan heavily during the economic boom
            Milan is only relevant due to being the stock exchange's seat. Veneto and Emilia (together with the rest of Lombardy) are the reason why Milan is worth anything, not the opposite.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It has nothing to do with WW2 whatsoever bro. Venice had the largest fleet in Europe, perhaps even the world, in the middle ages. South Italy has never had international trade hubs even before industrialization. Various important central banks (English, American, Dutch) are based on the Venetian Bank of Rialto as well. And the prominent Warburg family who founded the Federal Reserve is from there, as their surname used to be called Delbanco.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >South Italy has never had international trade hubs even before industrialization
        Amalfi existed, later Naples took its place

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Warburg family who founded the Federal Reserve
        They're israelites

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You ain't telling me anything new my dude

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was researching this for some time, here's an infographic:
    Basically everything went right for the north, and everything went wrong for the south.
    >north was part of the HRE, south was being handled from one feudal ruler to another
    >north had a lot of freedom, which they used to develop robust trade networks, and south was squeezed by their feudal owners to pay for their wars (Aragon, France)
    >genetically, the north is much whiter than the south, which has a lot of middle east admixture

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >north was part of the HRE, south was being handled from one feudal ruler to another
      Pretty much independent for centuries before unification, Spain and France wreaked havoc in the northwest just as bad as in the south
      >north had a lot of freedom, which they used to develop robust trade networks, and south was squeezed by their feudal owners to pay for their wars (Aragon, France)
      It wasn't a matter of freedom but centralization: northern polities were very centralized around the signoria and could focus on development; the south saw semi-constant conflict between the barons and the crown.
      >genetically, the north is much whiter than the south, which has a lot of middle east admixture
      Weakkk
      Don't be a half assed moron, go full moron and call terroni more Black person blooded than bantus

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Pretty much independent for centuries before unification, Spain and France wreaked havoc in the northwest just as bad as in the south
        Even if it's true, not only does it not address my point, it also doesn't disprove it. If you have a free market oriented economy, you can destroy it every 10 years, and it will be better off in the long run than a peaceful society that functions under a corrupt feudal system.
        >It wasn't a matter of freedom but centralization: northern polities were very centralized around the signoria and could focus on development; the south saw semi-constant conflict between the barons and the crown.
        There were hunderts of centralized states that never came close to northern Italy's development, but whenever you compare them to societies that introduced simmilar levels of economic freedom, the results in high wealth are always comparable.
        >Weakkk
        There's a ton of data that links lower white admixture with lower wages. Pic rel is Spain's example, where the correlation reaches 0,8 in some cases, and when you remove Catalonia (which is an overachiever due to the geographic location), the correlation reaches astronomic levels of 0,94.
        And if you want to come at me with the "correlation=/=causation" trope, don't waste my time and do some research on your own.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >which is an overachiever due to the geographic location
          But the Basques aren't?
          Also compare Spain and north Italy, taking into account that north Italian have more non european admixture than most Iberians

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But the Basques aren't?
            They have no aspects that would boost their economic output above what it should've been (natural resources, being the capital, tourism)
            >compare Spain and north Italy
            I'm not comparing them to Italy, I'm using them as an example for my point.
            But in Italy, the principle works as well. You can see it in the chart in

            https://i.imgur.com/dKfrEuH.jpeg

            I was researching this for some time, here's an infographic:
            Basically everything went right for the north, and everything went wrong for the south.
            >north was part of the HRE, south was being handled from one feudal ruler to another
            >north had a lot of freedom, which they used to develop robust trade networks, and south was squeezed by their feudal owners to pay for their wars (Aragon, France)
            >genetically, the north is much whiter than the south, which has a lot of middle east admixture

            , bottom left.
            And again, the capital is taken out because it's inflated due to being the capital, and Sardinia is artificially inflated due to tourism.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because South Italy doesn’t have tourism, right?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's contribution to the economy is tiny in comparison to the smaller islands like the Canaries, or Sardinia.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The most visited regions are in the North and center, also in the South both Campania and Apulia are more visited by tourists than Sardinia, at least according to 2019 data

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's about the scale and proportion to the whole economy, but that's something you need an IQ of over 105 to understand, so I won't bother explaining it further.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sicily apparently doesn’t rely on tourism but on its great industries, right, besides Sardinia is a shithole too, the point is that all the South has no noteworthy industry and is a shithole reliant on tourism, only in the case of Sicily and Campania it’s also ran by the mafia. The only vaguely decent region is Apulia but even that place is miles behind the rest of Italy

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >There's a ton of data that links lower white admixture with lower wages
          Some of the highest earning Americans are Asians.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Some of the highest earning Americans are Asians.
            I meant European conditions, where there's very few north-east asians, and thus any other admixture is a downgrade (as seen in the infographic you tagged).

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >muh whiteness

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >muh whiteness
        The data is racist, who would've thought.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What data? That image was a bunch of copypasted wiki articles and haplohomosexualry. You don't know how genetics works lmao

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because you build industry as close as possible to where resources are located, this has almost always been the case.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It might have something to do with the fact that northern Italy is covered with land that is not suitable for farming. So people who live there need to trade or provide services for food, while people who live in southern Italy can grow more food so they don't need to develop their industry. Or maybe it has something to do with haplogroups or maybe Jakob made them more stupid.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It might have something to do with the fact that northern Italy is covered with land that is not suitable for farming.

      The Po Valley is one of the most important industrial and agricultural areas in Europe. Hydroelectricity is produced by the flow of the Po. The river is extensively used for irrigation for the region's agriculture.[23]

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It might have something to do with the fact that northern Italy is covered with land that is not suitable for farming
      Im tired of literal fricking drooling morons talking on this board. Literally kys asap. FRICKING moron

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm an American and I'm half sicilian and I have italian citizenship

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    IQ correlates with distance from the equator.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mismangement after unification. More focus was put in the north so the south was neglected on top of facing issues like corruption and crime

    Historically the divide wasn't as bad but the north still had the advantage due the city state structure that allowed greater wealth and education to its citizens as opposed to the more repressive feudal structures in the south

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Geography: the North is closer to Switzerland. German Southern regions like Bavaria are richer than the Northern ones as well.

    Demographics: 70% of Italians live in the central and northern regions. They often force the government to invest in their own regions. This is quickly changing because Giorgia Meloni is a Southerner and Salvini has a Southern wife.

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