Is a 50 year old man having sexual relations with a 9 year old girl morally permissible? Is it ethically good, even?

Is a 50 year old man having sexual relations with a 9 year old girl morally permissible? Is it ethically good, even?

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  1. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    In islam it is apparently

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      How come not in Christianity then? Both are Abrahamic religions, but Christian consider this an extremely depraved and wicked act. Some Christian cultures in the west say it's worse than murder. Why?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's not a christian moral, it's a 20th century western moral.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          But the ethics of the west are heavily informed by Christianity.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's a result of victorian prudery that became popular in America then spread back to Britain and the rest of Europe, it's quite secular in origin.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's not about prudery but about the significant amount of mental and in many cases phyaical harm that result from it.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            No it is the result of prudery. Look up what victorian workhouses are before making such a moronic post, they did not care an iota for the health of children.

            so are you saying youd be ok with sleeping with a child, mo?

            I am not.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Children cannot consent, they lack the mental capacity. The mental damage that comes from this act can ruin a child's life.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I love how you just start chanting without provocation. This anti pedo zealotry is one of the western nu religions like Black person worship and trannies.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            You do realize that those who advocate for troonyism also advocate for pedophiles, right? Pedophilia is indeed on the same level with murder, it's the worst crime you can commit. Muhammad was an evil lunatic who is burning in hell.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't realize that. All trannies support the age of consent being lifted like all left wing homosexuals like you. Find one medieval criticism of Muhammad that mentions Aisha, you won't, this is a fake moral.
            > Pedophilia is indeed on the same level with murder, it's the worst crime you can commit.
            To what extent, is simply touching a child sexually but not raping one equivalent to murder? Is looking at computer images equivalent to murder?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Argument from silence. This act became largely known through Sunni Hadith literature which was compiled much later on and wasn't widely known by non-scholars (probably because of how tabboo it was for many of the conquered peoples), Shia Hadith even omit it for this reason. Medieval Christian sources are abundantly full of criticisms of Mo's licentiousness though and his acts of lust and sexual adultery:
            >This Mohammed wrote many ridiculous books, to each one of which he set a title. For example, there is the book On Woman, in which he plainly makes legal provision for taking four wives and, if it be possible, a thousand concubines—as many as one can maintain, besides the four wives. He also made it legal to put away whichever wife one might wish, and, should one so wish, to take to oneself another in the same way. Mohammed had a friend named Zeid. This man had a beautiful wife with whom Mohammed fell in love. Once, when they were sitting together, Mohammed said: 'Oh, by the way, God has commanded me to take your wife.' The other answered: 'You are an apostle. Do as God has told you and take my wife.' Rather—to tell the story over from the beginning—he said to him: 'God has given me the command that you put away your wife.' And he put her away. Then several days later: 'Now,' he said, ‘God has commanded me to take her.’ Then, after he had taken her and committed adultery with her, he made this law: 'Let him who will put away his wife. And if, after having put her away, he should return to her, let another marry her. For it is not lawful to take her unless she have been married by another. Furthermore, if a brother puts away his wife, let his brother marry her, should he so wish.' In the same book he gives such precepts as this: 'Work the land which God hath given thee and beautify it. And do this, and do it in such a manner" not to repeat all the obscene things that he did.
            >John of Damascus

            Mo was one of the most evil humans to ever live.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know why you posted this. It criticizes Muhammad for polygamy and lustfulness, as one would expect from any christian scholar, I never claimed otherwise. What I did say didn't happen was that Muhammad was not historically criticised for marry a female child. This does not criticise Muhammad for doing that, and likely nor do any of these other texts you claim to have as you didn't post them.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes and Mo lusted after a child. And again this act of his was so embarrassing that Sunni scholars hid it most likely, it didn't become known until the Hadiths were finished being compiled and western scholars got a look at them. Even Shia scholars think pedophilia is a reprehensible act, so much so they literally changed the age of Aisha to avoid this fact.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >hid it most likely
            Oh, they hid it likely, according to you. Can you back that up? Post a medieval source criticizing Muhammad on the basis that Aisha was a child. Post a source calling him a "pedophile".
            >so much so they literally changed the age of Aisha to avoid this fact.
            Post evidence, including the year. It's probable you're reading from wikipedia, the page on Aisha specifically mentions how this was influenced by westerners and that locals sought to defend their current laws based on their tradition rather than alter it.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sure:
            >In the modern era, Aisha's age at marriage has been a source of controversy and debate. Some Muslims have attempted to revise the previously-accepted timeline of her life (see the Apologetic History section below).[14]The hadith corpus provide records of early Islam through allegedly "unbroken chain of witnesses". Numerous variations on the hadith stating that Aisha was six at the time of her marriage and nine at the time of consummation come from collections with sahih status, meaning they are regarded as authentic by the majority of Muslims. They are defended, despite the modern controversy surrounding the issue, primarily because to question such a widely transmitted hadith would undermine Islamic hadith science in general. The hadith tradition about Aisha's age at marriage and consummation was also added by Ibn Hisham to his recension of thesiraofIbn Ishaq. The historians Ibn Sa'd and al-Tabari also include numerous reports of this tradition.[15][16]

            >Islamic modernist scholars generally question the reliability of traditionally authentic hadiths and biographical material. Modern academic research indicates that the hadiths which specify Aisha's age at the time of her marriage and consummation trace back to formulations circulated by her great nephew, Hisham b. 'Urwa, after he moved to Iraq where it found a receptive audience probably for proto-sectarian reasons (see the discussion of modern academic views below).

            https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where's your medieval source criticizing Muhammad for marrying a child?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I told you it wasn't widely known until the Hadiths. Minimum age in Byzantine empire was 13 though, so had it been known it would've been criticized. This is evidence for it not being known until later.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Prove it wasn't well known until whatever period you're claiming
            >so had it been known it would've been criticized.
            You have absolutely no basis to assert this. I think many would criticize it, to say she's too young or not physically able to carry a child, but not a great amount nor would they treat it as the unforgivable crime equal to murder.

            This is evidence [...]

            What is it evidence of? It doesn't seem to be a medieval source criticizing Muhammad for marry a child.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I already did prove it. I proved everything you asked of me.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            You didn't post a medieval source criticizing Muhammad for marrying a child. You are lying which is against christian morality.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I did and I gave you a source and quotes here proving all my claims:

            >However, critics note that unlike in the early Islamic polity, the minimum age of marriage or consummation for girls in the neighbouring Byzantine and Sasanid empires was significantly later at 13 or 12, albeit still very young (see above). Further, they argue that it is objectively the case that adolescent pregnancy brings signicantly greater risk of serious medical complications for both the mother and baby as noted for example byThe World Health Organization) and that this would be no different a thousand years ago, especially in the case of a nine year old girl. Moreover, critics question whether it is legitimate to complain of presentism, given the Islamic concept of Muhammad as al-Insān al-Kāmil (the perfect human) andUswa Hasana(an excellent model of conduct). Indeed, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha has been cited by Islamic scholars opposed to the introduction or raising of the minimum age of marriage which has occurred in most Muslim majority countries in recent decades.

            Sure:
            >In the modern era, Aisha's age at marriage has been a source of controversy and debate. Some Muslims have attempted to revise the previously-accepted timeline of her life (see the Apologetic History section below).[14]The hadith corpus provide records of early Islam through allegedly "unbroken chain of witnesses". Numerous variations on the hadith stating that Aisha was six at the time of her marriage and nine at the time of consummation come from collections with sahih status, meaning they are regarded as authentic by the majority of Muslims. They are defended, despite the modern controversy surrounding the issue, primarily because to question such a widely transmitted hadith would undermine Islamic hadith science in general. The hadith tradition about Aisha's age at marriage and consummation was also added by Ibn Hisham to his recension of thesiraofIbn Ishaq. The historians Ibn Sa'd and al-Tabari also include numerous reports of this tradition.[15][16]

            >Islamic modernist scholars generally question the reliability of traditionally authentic hadiths and biographical material. Modern academic research indicates that the hadiths which specify Aisha's age at the time of her marriage and consummation trace back to formulations circulated by her great nephew, Hisham b. 'Urwa, after he moved to Iraq where it found a receptive audience probably for proto-sectarian reasons (see the discussion of modern academic views below).

            https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age

            You have an argument from silence which is a logical fallacy. I accept your concession.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where's the medieval source anon? Are you trolling?
            >an argument from silence
            What's that? Can you prove the age of Muhammad marrying Aisha was some secret knowledge until the 19th century?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Right here, I gave you the explanation/argument

            Argument from silence. This act became largely known through Sunni Hadith literature which was compiled much later on and wasn't widely known by non-scholars (probably because of how tabboo it was for many of the conquered peoples), Shia Hadith even omit it for this reason. Medieval Christian sources are abundantly full of criticisms of Mo's licentiousness though and his acts of lust and sexual adultery:
            >This Mohammed wrote many ridiculous books, to each one of which he set a title. For example, there is the book On Woman, in which he plainly makes legal provision for taking four wives and, if it be possible, a thousand concubines—as many as one can maintain, besides the four wives. He also made it legal to put away whichever wife one might wish, and, should one so wish, to take to oneself another in the same way. Mohammed had a friend named Zeid. This man had a beautiful wife with whom Mohammed fell in love. Once, when they were sitting together, Mohammed said: 'Oh, by the way, God has commanded me to take your wife.' The other answered: 'You are an apostle. Do as God has told you and take my wife.' Rather—to tell the story over from the beginning—he said to him: 'God has given me the command that you put away your wife.' And he put her away. Then several days later: 'Now,' he said, ‘God has commanded me to take her.’ Then, after he had taken her and committed adultery with her, he made this law: 'Let him who will put away his wife. And if, after having put her away, he should return to her, let another marry her. For it is not lawful to take her unless she have been married by another. Furthermore, if a brother puts away his wife, let his brother marry her, should he so wish.' In the same book he gives such precepts as this: 'Work the land which God hath given thee and beautify it. And do this, and do it in such a manner" not to repeat all the obscene things that he did.
            >John of Damascus

            Mo was one of the most evil humans to ever live.

            >However, critics note that unlike in the early Islamic polity, the minimum age of marriage or consummation for girls in the neighbouring Byzantine and Sasanid empires was significantly later at 13 or 12, albeit still very young (see above). Further, they argue that it is objectively the case that adolescent pregnancy brings signicantly greater risk of serious medical complications for both the mother and baby as noted for example byThe World Health Organization) and that this would be no different a thousand years ago, especially in the case of a nine year old girl. Moreover, critics question whether it is legitimate to complain of presentism, given the Islamic concept of Muhammad as al-Insān al-Kāmil (the perfect human) andUswa Hasana(an excellent model of conduct). Indeed, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha has been cited by Islamic scholars opposed to the introduction or raising of the minimum age of marriage which has occurred in most Muslim majority countries in recent decades.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            But those posts neither supply a medieval source, nor prove that no one knew the hadith say that Muhammad married Aisha at the young age until the 19th century. Please tell me you're trolling.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes they all do.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >However, critics note that unlike in the early Islamic polity, the minimum age of marriage or consummation for girls in the neighbouring Byzantine and Sasanid empires was significantly later at 13 or 12, albeit still very young (see above). Further, they argue that it is objectively the case that adolescent pregnancy brings signicantly greater risk of serious medical complications for both the mother and baby as noted for example byThe World Health Organization) and that this would be no different a thousand years ago, especially in the case of a nine year old girl. Moreover, critics question whether it is legitimate to complain of presentism, given the Islamic concept of Muhammad as al-Insān al-Kāmil (the perfect human) andUswa Hasana(an excellent model of conduct). Indeed, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha has been cited by Islamic scholars opposed to the introduction or raising of the minimum age of marriage which has occurred in most Muslim majority countries in recent decades.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            See

            Where's your medieval source criticizing Muhammad for marrying a child?

            To add they believe Aisha fakes hadiths so hadiths from Aisha are not reliable to them

            Why do they hate Aisha so much?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is evidence

            >However, critics note that unlike in the early Islamic polity, the minimum age of marriage or consummation for girls in the neighbouring Byzantine and Sasanid empires was significantly later at 13 or 12, albeit still very young (see above). Further, they argue that it is objectively the case that adolescent pregnancy brings signicantly greater risk of serious medical complications for both the mother and baby as noted for example byThe World Health Organization) and that this would be no different a thousand years ago, especially in the case of a nine year old girl. Moreover, critics question whether it is legitimate to complain of presentism, given the Islamic concept of Muhammad as al-Insān al-Kāmil (the perfect human) andUswa Hasana(an excellent model of conduct). Indeed, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha has been cited by Islamic scholars opposed to the introduction or raising of the minimum age of marriage which has occurred in most Muslim majority countries in recent decades.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Even Shia scholars think pedophilia is a reprehensible act, so much so they literally changed the age of Aisha to avoid this fact.
            Moron. They hate and consider her to be the most evil prostitute to ever exist

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Shia don't believe in the hadiths, they also believe aisha is an evil person herself.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Shia don't believe in the hadiths
            They have their own hadith. Where each imam has the same authority as each other meaning reciting from later imams is the same as reciting from Ali. Other than that their hadith function the same way

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            To add they believe Aisha fakes hadiths so hadiths from Aisha are not reliable to them

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I forgot to menion they think 90% of muhammad's companions were evil and so narrate from only a few of them

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            so are you saying youd be ok with sleeping with a child, mo?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        There isn't a reason to do so that doesn't fall under sexual immorality. At the point you run into:
        >If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
        Matthew 18:6

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      No, he saved her from marrying the pagan Jubayr, who she was betrothed to. If he merely adopted her, people would assume a relationship and cut her marriage propsects.

  2. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    No.

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Muhammad raped a 9 year old
    Muhammad slaughtered an entire town of israeli people
    Muhammad murdered innocent travelers in caravans
    Muhammad advocated for the drinking of camel urine
    Muhammad was a polygamist
    Muhammad waged many wars and caused the deaths of thousands
    Muhammad was an evil Satanic false prophet terrorist who is in hell

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >t. evangelical

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    There's nothing wrong with being engaged to a 9-year-old and even marriage isn't the worst thing, even if it is kind of odd. But even in the past that would be considered too young to consummate the marriage.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      It improved her life in all aspects, she was basically elevated to empress.

  5. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ask God.

  6. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    While there is nothing within islamic law that says no

    in reality, marrying a child causes a lot of social problems than anything else

  7. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is a 50 year old man having sexual relations with a 9 year old girl morally permissible?

  8. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Aisha was 17, you can shove your made up hadith up your ass

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