Is there really a point buying bulky external hard drives once these things become cheap and high capacity?

Is there really a point buying bulky external hard drives once these things become cheap and high capacity?

I'm always under the presumption that tiny flash storage is unreliable for long term storage due to silent data corruption. I've only ever seen these as being useful in phones but not for backups.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >SD cards
    lmao

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/1PcJXJ1.jpg

      Is there really a point buying bulky external hard drives once these things become cheap and high capacity?

      I'm always under the presumption that tiny flash storage is unreliable for long term storage due to silent data corruption. I've only ever seen these as being useful in phones but not for backups.

      >
      I've never owned a hdd or ssd that randomly split in two

      They aren't as reliable as you think.

      They are garbage. Low speeds, poor data retention when unpowered, poor write endurance. My parents once left an SD card in a drawer for a year, thinking it will store as well as a CD, only to find out that their data has gone poof. And there isn't even a SMART-like protocol that will let you check and test their health.
      Just use a good SSD like the WD SN850X as your main drive, and for back-ups, either keep an external HDD in a drawer or use a NAS. HDDs still have better $/TB and unpowered data retention.

      You got lucky. I've seen multiple memory cards and USB drives die randomly.

      Essentially this, microSD cards and everything like them, SD, CF, are not reliable long term. They are built to hold a few pics for a camera or a phone with occasional use ie slowly taking one pic at a time and then maybe dumping them all once in a while. Buying a shitload of SD cards to raid or somehow stripe them to hold your data is like building your house out of beer cans

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I use them in the Switch with no problems.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a good use scenario because that sort of data isn't hugely important. You can always redownload the games. There won't be much unique data except saved games.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's a theory those're SIM cards for cloud storage.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >SIM cards for cloud storage.

      Shit.

      make sense there is nothing much inside. it's just some kind of shitty modem, an antenna and a license key to use storage in the ~~*quantum background field*~~ allegedly.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >an antenna
        There was a thread about HDDs containing transmitters. The signal can be received by a car parked in front of the house (it might take only a few minutes).

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I prefer the multi dimensional demons theory

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Transfer speed
    Easy to lose

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Very easy to swallow

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For long term data storage stick to hard drives but also put the most important shit on optical. You can go down the painful road of tape if you have enough money for a tape drive and are very patient.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I could maybe use them as an extra backup but not main. something easy to carry around so if your home burns you have more than nothing

  7. 4 weeks ago
    pixDAIZ

    >I'm always under the presumption that tiny flash storage is unreliable for long term storage due to silent data corruption.
    correct but this applies to most consumer flash storage in general. If you want your data to last after you die you have to use 1-bit SLC flash storage.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's over 200k per terabyte.

      • 4 weeks ago
        pixDAIZ

        IMHO 2-bit MLC SSDs are the best balance for long term data storage and capacity. Only $300/TB although there's no guarantee that you will die before data corruption happens.

        If you're willing to spend an eternity encoding video with preset 0 10-bit AV1 and use Lyra 2 for audio you could probably get by with a 4GB SLC flash drive tbh senpai.

        https://opensource.googleblog.com/2022/09/lyra-v2-a-better-faster-and-more-versatile-speech-codec.html

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Audio codec
          How does it fare against opus? Is it only designed for low bandwidth speech?

          • 4 weeks ago
            pixDAIZ

            I'm not sure tbh. Here's a wall of text that might be useful.

            https://www.meetecho.com/blog/playing-with-lyra/

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Huh, you can get used enterprise SSD that uses MLC for nearly as much as what a new one cost

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How would you even get the thing to 55° in normal use?

  8. 4 weeks ago
    pixDAIZ

    The reason why they can fit 1TB onto something so small is because they're actually using 4-bit QLC NAND. AFAIK the maximum capacity of 3-bit TLC NAND on a micro SD card is only 256GB.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    SD cards, even the fastest ones, perform terribly for data intensive applications. They're better suited for irregularly accessed data. They also have a predetermined number of cycles, and once they reach them, they're done for.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What happens? Stuck in read only mode?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thats the best case
        Worst case is they stop working or randomly corrupt certain/all files

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >SD cards, even the fastest ones, perform terribly for data intensive applications. They're better suited for irregularly accessed data. They also have a predetermined number of cycles, and once they reach them, they're done for.

      What happens? Stuck in read only mode?

      Thats the best case
      Worst case is they stop working or randomly corrupt certain/all files

      I didn't recommend them though. If you look at my post again, I said an internal SSD and external HDD. External SSDs tend to be untrustworthy so I wouldn't recommend this kind of device at all, WD or not.

      [...]
      >What happens? Stuck in read only mode?
      You can only count on this if you have an enterprise-tier SSD. With garbage-tier flash, including pretty much all memory cards and USB drives, the more likely scenario is that you plug it in one day, it starts spamming I/O errors, no partitions are detected, you realize your data is gone now. Even external SSDs have had a lot of manufacturing frickups. If you insist on storing your backups on flash instead of spinning rust, stick to one of the known good NVMe sticks, Gen3 or Gen4. Stick the stick into one of the known good USB C NVMe enclosures where the whole device is metal and acts as a heatsink.

      I have a 1 GB card from the early 2000s that I stored in some random, humid, filthy place and it still works. This is a meme.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I too have old, rarely used SDs, CFs, MMCs, USB sticks that work fine.
        But I also had a few microSDs which randomly died.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          sd cards from good brands (not samsuck or kingston) are so good that throwing them into the trash can is a huge security risk. You have to destroy them completely using scissors, pliers, hammer, etc. That shit will last forever

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What brands are you talking about?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You got lucky. I've seen multiple memory cards and USB drives die randomly.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          HDDs and usb drives yes. Cards, no. I was referring to cards and to good brands specifically. I've had multiple samsuck cards fail on me after weeks of light usage.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I've had a similar experience, lost a 2GB card and found it over 10 years later with all the data intact.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They lose your data with alaraming frequency

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bought bottom tier Kingston SD some days ago and the Black person would crash android whenever I decided to turn off my screen during a transfer or whatever. This also happened with my 8 year old SanDisk. It never happened until now.
    I them decided to refund the little homie and bought a samsung, which was 3 times more expensive but it works really well - I mainly use it for PS2 emulation, and it does the trick pretty well, no crashing my OS and shit as well.
    Frick SDcards though.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    those fingerprints are grossing me out
    also, sd cards max out at around 90MB/s for a fast one
    UFS would be an improvement but only Samsung ever made readers and supported them and they aren't even selling them now
    I've literally been waiting FOUR YEARS for them to restock the 256GBs
    https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/memory-cards/mb-fa256g-am-mb-fa256g-am/

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how am I going to use on my pc?

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They aren't as reliable as you think.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are garbage. Low speeds, poor data retention when unpowered, poor write endurance. My parents once left an SD card in a drawer for a year, thinking it will store as well as a CD, only to find out that their data has gone poof. And there isn't even a SMART-like protocol that will let you check and test their health.
    Just use a good SSD like the WD SN850X as your main drive, and for back-ups, either keep an external HDD in a drawer or use a NAS. HDDs still have better $/TB and unpowered data retention.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WDs external SSDs are all faulty

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I didn't recommend them though. If you look at my post again, I said an internal SSD and external HDD. External SSDs tend to be untrustworthy so I wouldn't recommend this kind of device at all, WD or not.

        What happens? Stuck in read only mode?

        >What happens? Stuck in read only mode?
        You can only count on this if you have an enterprise-tier SSD. With garbage-tier flash, including pretty much all memory cards and USB drives, the more likely scenario is that you plug it in one day, it starts spamming I/O errors, no partitions are detected, you realize your data is gone now. Even external SSDs have had a lot of manufacturing frickups. If you insist on storing your backups on flash instead of spinning rust, stick to one of the known good NVMe sticks, Gen3 or Gen4. Stick the stick into one of the known good USB C NVMe enclosures where the whole device is metal and acts as a heatsink.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >External SSDs tend to be untrustworthy
          i got so paranoid about those fake ssds which have sd cards inside them that i only buy internal hdds and put enclosure over it. you cant fake spinning fricking rust, and i dont care

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >not powering them up monthly so data wouldn't corrupt
      >not using optical storage if previous step was too much for them
      ngmi

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>not powering them up monthly so data wouldn't corrupt
        With the kind of shit controllers they probably have, you may have to rewrite the entire thing instead of just powering it up.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All data on memory cards should be considered temporary. Actually, that goes for all data that you don't have on 3+ devices, but for memory cards it goes double.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    speeds, longevity, reliability

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >once these things become cheap and high capacity?
    And when is that going to be?
    I've been hearing hard drives are finished for almost 20 years now.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're designed to stay in a device. If they stay there and get powered constantly it's reliable. But most of us swap them all the time and store them in shit boxes with other stuff where they got corrupted. Where they are stored makes all the difference imo.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >They're designed to stay in a device. If they stay there and get powered constantly it's reliable.
      Bullshit. All microSD cards I ever used for storage expansion in smartphones and other portable devices, eventually died while in use.
      Even worse, they often don't give any signs they're about to die like becoming slower, etc. They're working fine the day before, then one day they just stop working and aren't even recognized anymore by any device or card reader.
      In my experience, top tier models from good brands can last about 3-4 years, while shit ones last 1-2 years.

      All data on memory cards should be considered temporary. Actually, that goes for all data that you don't have on 3+ devices, but for memory cards it goes double.

      These are unreliable as frick, there's a reason they are cheap.

      This. I believe microSD cards are some of the most unreliable storage media ever made. Even floppy disks were more reliable.

      By the way, USB flash drives / thumb drives are a LOT more reliable and have much better offline data retention than microSDs. At least in my personal experience.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I've a dozen sandisk and none of them "fried" with casual use. Still have a 1gb for an old nintendo DS that works great for +15y.
        When I said they're reliable, there is a limit and eventually they got corrupted for X reasons like humidity, temperature or your device just dropped. They are not a replacement for HDDs or SSDs by any mean, these are not designed to move around with your devices all day.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have 1 of these pic rel. with a 500gb nvme drive and one larger enclosure with a fan on it. Super fast.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are all of you moronic? Just use parity and hunk the data and duplicate the chunks over many SSDs. One SSD loose 20% of the chunks? So what, pull the missing chunks from another SSD.
    All drives have massive corruption so you only manage to pull 60% of the chunks and some chunks have corruption? No problem just XOR the missing data from the embedded parity data in the chunks.

    You don't need a perfect storage medium, just calculate your yearly acceptable loss and add parity + duplication to account for that.

    Brainlets, I swear.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ZFS?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What ever you want as long as long as you have hashes of the files, parity data and data chunking.

        Too much hastle, IMHO you might as well just [...]

        I bet lyra V2 could get audibly transparent stereo music down to 32 kbps or something like 10MB per audio CD. Training and then encoding time must take days though.

        Sure, but how do you discover and recover from bit rot?

        • 4 weeks ago
          pixDAIZ

          Correction: ~20MB per audio CD

          Still that's like 5 audio CDs per 100MB

          With SLC NAND that's only something you have to worry about after you've died.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >With SLC NAND that's only something you have to worry about after you've died.

            Bit flips can happens in RAM and during data transfer, that goes for both writing and reading. And assuming no bit flips happens at all all, storage conditions can still affect your SLC NAND storage.

            I've had enough file s getting corrupt to not trust any storage medium long term. There is no reason to not have checksums of all important files, and if you are going to go to those lengths you might as well add parity so you don't have to rely on redundant copies when you discover a file with corruption down the line.

          • 4 weeks ago
            pixDAIZ

            Look up with SLC NAND is. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Enjoy writing corrupted data to your SLC NAND, moron. 🙂

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            bbut….i thought slc was… le good!

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What's the best way to generate checksums of all your important files?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            if they are to never get modified, then just generating a SHA256 for each file is good enough.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            My guess is that that anon is using a checksumming filesystem.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >What ever you want as long as long as you have hashes of the files, parity data and data chunking.
          Doesn't that basically restrict you to ZFS, btrfs, bcachefs, and HAMMER2? It seems that even in 2024, most filesystems don't actually check for data corruption. Now, bcachefs is new and experimental, HAMMER2 is BSD, so it's basically ZFS or btrfs.

    • 4 weeks ago
      pixDAIZ

      Too much hastle, IMHO you might as well just

      IMHO 2-bit MLC SSDs are the best balance for long term data storage and capacity. Only $300/TB although there's no guarantee that you will die before data corruption happens.

      If you're willing to spend an eternity encoding video with preset 0 10-bit AV1 and use Lyra 2 for audio you could probably get by with a 4GB SLC flash drive tbh senpai.

      https://opensource.googleblog.com/2022/09/lyra-v2-a-better-faster-and-more-versatile-speech-codec.html

      I bet lyra V2 could get audibly transparent stereo music down to 32 kbps or something like 10MB per audio CD. Training and then encoding time must take days though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >trusting your hardware
        ishygddt

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >parity
      >split files
      >error detection and correction

      WinRar chads just can't stop winning

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have had 6 SD cards fail on me within a year. For short-term stuff like some docs you don't care about, it's fine to use. For larger stuff the transfer speed is shit and not worth it. The SD card will die as you're transferring. And I used Sandisk, not some Alibaba shit.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm waiting for the days high capacity SSDs are cheaper than HDD. Yes, I'm willing to accept a lower sequential write rate (of like 50MB/s) with the benefit of 1000x more IO/S.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, and probably five level cells with 6 months unpowered data retention.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >unpowered data retention.
        luckily it'll always be powered on :^). Cold backups can be on HDD, warm on SSD. Today it's too expensive to do it that way, but hopefully we'll get there in the future.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, that changes things. I thought you wanted this kind of thing for off-line backups.
          Is SSD that important for warm back-ups though? For me, HDD is fine for any kind of back-up. It's just the stuff I'm actively using that I want on fast SSD.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's valuable if there are a lot of random reads/writes, say in an actively used RAID server (perhaps 'warm backup' wasn't the right word?). The low IO/S of a HDD can bottleneck performance for a lot of applications, and sadly modern SSDs are not large enough and too expensive for some use cases.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    capacity... it's... IT'S ALL THAT MATTERS

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if reliability is THIS unimportant to you then just pipe your data to /dev/null or store it in MongoDB

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have an archive of music, how do i preserve it? HDD?USB?CD?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How large is your collection?
      If keeping it matters, do at least the 3 2 1. I have mine on 2 live machines (in different locations), 2 or 3 externals HDDs, and a cloud backup as well.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Any recommendations on hdds? Any encryption?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't use encryption and just have backups on random drives I've accumulated over the years. I keep em in different places and do a sync every few months.
          Any HDD or SSD will do depending on the capacity you need. These drives won't presumably get a lot of read and writes if they're for archive purposes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Looking for the golden medium that will never fail you is a fool's errand. You should use reasonably reliable ways to store data, but the main protection against losing it should be multiple copies + regular testing. I store my music collection on my desktop (NVMe SSD), laptop (NVMe SSD), and an external HDD I keep in a different place in the house.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    These are unreliable as frick, there's a reason they are cheap.

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