Jon Blow was right 3rd edition.

Read the article: https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/
What the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t1K66dMhWk
He was right about all of this in 2018, 6 years ago. Say sorry to Jon Blow RIGHT NOW.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >read this literal who's booklong opinion
    nah

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I'll simply ignore any valid complaints about rust

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        your mom is a prostitute
        guess you can't ignore that?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >argument free reply from a rustroon
          The rust community is insufferable tbh

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >argument free
            look again

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          most eloquent rust supporter

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the poasting will continue until rustgays stop shilling on IQfy

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      RUST TRANNIES ABSOLUTELY 100% BTFO

      your mom is a prostitute
      guess you can't ignore that?

      >argument free
      look again

      >{tool} isn't a good fit for {purpose} => {tool} is shit
      dumb moron

      nocoders on this board

      BTFO RUST TRANNIES

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >{tool} isn't a good fit for {purpose} => {tool} is shit
      dumb moron

      see [...]

      How much is the Rust Foundation paying you for damage control after that article came out?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When did it come out? April 26th, the date their """"game"""" came out, just in time to generate some buzz so they could make at least a few dollars instead of none?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          who cares? the article has so many valid points it's almost overwhelming

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I wouldn't want to be the useful idiot shill they wanted you to be when making that "article" but hey if that's what you like

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            but you are shilling a hyped language backed by megacorps rustgay-kun
            is that not worse?

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >{tool} isn't a good fit for {purpose} => {tool} is shit
    dumb moron

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      who said this?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nocoders on this board

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It’s a tool without a use though.
      Misapplying the tool en mass doesn’t validate a use.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous
        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no argument
          >knew-jerk hostility
          Thanks for proving my point.
          Rust is fundamentally a delusional language and unfit for the real world.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >i can't have this thread be focused on technical discussion, that would show the things i believe to be false
          >...
          >how do i make this thread about trannies?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >trannies
            rent free

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what does a chud thinking about trannies have to do with a technical discussion about the merits of the rust programming language?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            see

            >{tool} isn't a good fit for {purpose} => {tool} is shit
            dumb moron

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anyone who knows about affine types knows fungus lang has no genuine future.
    Dead-end, and abandoned theory.
    It’s hilarious watching all the so called “seniors” and “experienced devs” championing something so obviously unfit because they don’t actually know the things that matter. Like even basic type theory.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jon, if you're that concerned about not achieving your silly little dream of making the world's final programming language before Rust snags that spot, you should just release your language.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Clearly it's not like he has any pressure from Rust.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Transition should be illegal. Forced detransition is the price to reenter society. Get a nice haircut and a mastectomy and wear a polo and state into the camera that you were wrong to try and become a woman and the gate to the prison camp opens

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    when shilling doesn't work i guess the rust evangelism strike force has to switch to novel strategies like derailing the discussion since they couldn't control it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Rust is in the Kernel. We won.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Windows is dying moron.
        11 isn’t even the majority %.
        You’re trying to takeover a rotting corpse, congratulations.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Windows
          dumb moron

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Linux drivers are auxiliary, not the actual kernel.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >2 more weeks and Rust will be done
            pathetic cope

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Rust will kill itself when more and more disgruntled people fork it, while waiting for their rust project to finish building.
            >already surpassed c++ in both user and system complexity despite being decades younger.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >more and more disgruntled people fork it
            delusional

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If you’re into programming languages, you realize there’s an immense amount of langs specifically citing rust as not ideal and needing to be different.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."
            Elon Musk

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If you’re into programming languages
            instead of writing code?
            QED

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            see [...]

            >another strawman argument
            No, "Rust in the kernel" is just a lie, some stupid misinformation for those who don't understand what drivers are.
            You can write kernel drivers in C++, but no one talks about that, right?
            You know what you can't do though? Write C++ and Rust in the kernel itself... doesn't matter what kernel were talking about.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            wrong

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >She thinks the propaganda is true
            No you troon, you can't rewrite the kernel in Rust. User space system libraries and drivers don't count.
            It's still C and assembly for pretty much every modern kernel.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            keep coping

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            keep coping

            >no argument

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            see

            >{tool} isn't a good fit for {purpose} => {tool} is shit
            dumb moron

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Rust isn't a good fit for Kernel Programming => Rust is shit
            THANK YOU, finally something we can all agree on

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Serenity is c++ though.
            And his stupid language is just sugar for c++

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Rust, ECS, and design patterns. the trifecta of nodev traps that beginners fall into.

        because you shilled it so much that zoomer system programmers fell for your shit and aren't learning C anymore. linus is just trying to keep the kernel alive.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Rust can be used in kernel drivers.
        >C++ can be used in kernel drivers.
        >Neither can be used in the kernel itself.
        >Every single kernel still written in C and assembly.
        W-we won, r-right rustbros? Rust in the k-kernel, right b-bros?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          see

          >2 more weeks and Rust will be done
          pathetic cope

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Creating a new programming language isn't conducive to rapid game prototyping either.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unused variables being a compiler error is an idea only estrogen could produce.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are thinking about Go, not Rust.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Liking and being prone to waste and excess is actually feminine behavior

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sticking with zig for my low level playing until jai is fully released in beta stable. Also I use c# for my high level needs.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Entire thread derailed by intellectually dishonest rustees

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it's so obvious as well. same shit every time.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >bait thread #3 isn't the same as #1 and #2
      seethe

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    this part is just solid gold
    >written in rust -> good! written in c++ -> bad!
    >use thing written in rust!
    but... i used it and it's quite bad!
    >no! you're just using it wrong!

    rustgays are insane. no wonder it's so commonly used in crypto. i can see how the community believes lines up very well with a certain kind of grifter's attitude.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Making games is about rapid prototyping and iteration
    That sounds like Lisp. Is Blow Fish telling me I should write my rougelike engage/library in Lisp?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He’d also like the game to actually work and not OOM, so not lisp

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Search for Game Oriented Assembly Lisp, it was used to develop the Jak and Daxter games. Crash Bandicoot was also written in a custom lisp dialect.
      Lisp has seen more in production game dev than Rust to be honest tbh.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        We could have had lisp gamedev AND SONY JUST TOOK IT AWAY FROM US???

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          the ultimate blackpill
          instead we got a code-driven game engine (2 more weeks until it gets an editor) where you have to wait an eternity for your code to compile, amazing workflow.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The blackpill is realizing open-goal exists and is largely not cared about or even known about by lisp people.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            because it's basically an emulation project
            not a modern game framework with the features you'd expect, even basic stuff like importing assets etc

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Quite literally not emulation.
            Also you have an entire games source code FROM the creators of GOAL.
            This is truly a prime example of the Lisp zealot fallacy.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >https://opengoal.dev/
            A port of GOAL by decompiling existing games, not from the creators.
            The original GOAL and its tooling are proprietary, the open-goal project doesn't have the source code for those.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It’s decompiling and converting code to yield the exact same game.

            Definition of emulation on google: "reproduction of the function or action of a different computer, software system, etc."
            Just because it doesn't run the game in an emulator doesn't mean it's not an emulation project.
            >Also you have an entire games source code FROM the creators of GOAL.
            Good for making a game that looks like it was developed for the ps2 as a descendant of a jak and daxter game. Not good for much else.

            It's a cool project but not very to making indie games today. Also, I'm not a lisp zealot, I personally mostly program in C and C++. I just find Lisp fascinating.

            It builds and runs a native executable, moron. It’s not emulation.
            Resorting to pedantry and outsourcing your argument are prime indicators you’ve lost the argument and are In over your head.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he really thinks i dont know that it compiles to an x64 executable
            moron. Just because I use a word in the correct way that you don't like doesn't mean I'm wrong. I really did mean emulation in the sense that it is emulating/reproducing/recreating the game. But of course, you can't argue in good faith because that would prevent you from calling me a moron.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Colloquially, you’re using emulation in an obtuse and colloquially incorrect way, in order to salvage your abysmal non-argument.
            So yes, you’re still a moron. Always the invariant you can trust with lisp enthusiasts.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ok bro try importing a gltf /fbx/collada/usd skinned animation file with OpenGOAL since my post was such a non-argument.
            also
            >whining that i dont use words in the way that you specifically like

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is also the problem with so called “Lisp Hackers”.
            You’re just skiddies who want everything pre-made so you can run the program and post a screenshot on IQfy for aesthetics.
            You don’t want to build anything
            You don’t actually believe in Lisp or GOAL.
            You just want to LARP, except on the internet.
            So IRP’ing. a prime acronym for Lispies.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            why do you hate lisp so much?
            anyway, im not even using lisp right now for my side projects. im programming stuff from scratch with very few libraries in C in my free time.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don’t hate Lisp, I just loathe most of its pseuds who do nothing but IRP with each other.
            And the few intelligent people doing real work in Lisp like Mark Tarver, I feel are just stuck in a bad paradigm, and would do much better things if they got rid of lisp.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the reason i find lisp fascinating because while every language is slowly moving towards "how do we make this work best for large teams" most lisps do not give a frick and are still designed with the mindset of "the programmer should feel like a wizard" whether they admit to it or not, this isn't necessarily good, but it is interesting.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You want stack languages or APL for that.
            Besides the notion that programming langs should cultivate individualism is just embarrassing and objectively harmful in many, multifaceted ways.
            Programming languages are for solving problems, and should do everything they can to ONLY cultivate that idea. While DISALLOWING anything that obstructs it.
            >compiler warnings
            >syntax freedom
            >AST control
            Etc are all anti-features that hold languages and programmers back, while wasting their time with having to solve false-problems like being able to account for all the variants.
            A great feature of programming languages should be in culling the ego of its users.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            gopher detected

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Go is terrible and Erlang is objectively better.
            Go merely has accidentally good ideas I like that have nothing to do with technical reasons.
            If you’ve ever watched Joe Armstrong talks, I’m primarily inspired by his idea of redundant code in the wild being detected and culled.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            tbh i am not necessarily opposed to the idea that some programming languages should be like pens you pick up and use to write in whatever way you'd like
            one thing i wont budge on is that compiler warnings absolutely should exist and they should not be errors. so many useful warnings in c/c++ that are often also useful to ignore when prototyping an idea etc.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            A warning should either be legal code or an error.
            If it falls in that grey area, you have a deficiency in your language.
            Ignoring warnings and letting them stack up is lazy and wastes time.
            The fact that c/++ programmers tend to also use -Werror indirectly proves my point, only programmers today don’t know how to identify core problems.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i use -Werror when i ship something or am doing general cleanup. at the same time, i also fix todos and run static analysis and fix issues from that as well.
            works fine for me. too much mental overhead from worrying about compiler pedantry while writing novel code, probably bad for focus on correctness of the algorithm and such imo.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Being afraid of warnings is a language problem.
            Not being able to write novel code by default is also a language problem.
            Or maybe your code isn’t that novel if you have to think about mental overhead and just insist the compiler lets your bad code through instead

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            here is an example: integer narrowing. compiler says uint64_t truncated to uint32_t, idgaf because i know the uint64_t value will fit, the compiler warning is basically just noise the vast majority of the time but i still keep it on because sometimes it's useful to know when implicit conversions.
            same deal with unused variables etc.
            >Not being able to write novel code by default is also a language problem.
            not an issue in C/C++ because warnings are not errors by default
            >Or maybe your code isn’t that novel if you have to think about mental overhead and just insist the compiler lets your bad code through instead
            this sentence makes no sense. whether your code compiles without warnings and its quality (performance and correctness, not pedantry) are often orthogonal. i can write some of the most moronic code ever and have it compile with 0 warnings, or i can also write a brilliant algorithm that still compiles with a bunch of pedantic warnings.
            warnings are a dumb tool that is sometimes useful because they catch certain patterns, not the judge of whether your code is good.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Implicit conversions are terrible, and you aren’t writing novel code with them.
            Unused variables are waste and serve no positive purpose. You are just lazy.
            > i can write some of the most moronic code ever and have it compile with 0 warnings, or i can also write a brilliant algorithm that still compiles with a bunch of pedantic warnings.
            warnings are a dumb tool that is sometimes useful because they catch certain patterns
            Language problem

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Implicit conversions are terrible, and you aren’t writing novel code with them.
            do you know what novel means? i think you're confusing it for "perfect". novel means interesting/new. also implicit conversions are very useful, imagine having to explicitly cast uint16_t to uint32_t all the time for no reason, lol.
            >Unused variables are waste and serve no positive purpose. You are just lazy.
            you don't value iteration speed and dont understand friction/cognitive overhead. all these pedantic little things add up like paper cuts until it feels like you're walking in a swamp.
            >Language problem
            well whatever, i was talking about how i use warnings in c/c++

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > implicit conversions are very useful
            Of course, you can crash a lot of rockets and airplanes with them. But of course YOUR implicit conversions would never do something harmful because you’re an attentive and competent programmer.
            Also novel shouldn’t sacrifice quality.
            You’ve given no real arguments, they all stem from laziness and ego.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i review all implicit conversions and other minutiae after im done writing the thing.
            the point is that you don't have to do it WHILE youre writing the thing.
            anyway, that's just how i program, man.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Definition of emulation on google: "reproduction of the function or action of a different computer, software system, etc."
            Just because it doesn't run the game in an emulator doesn't mean it's not an emulation project.
            >Also you have an entire games source code FROM the creators of GOAL.
            Good for making a game that looks like it was developed for the ps2 as a descendant of a jak and daxter game. Not good for much else.

            It's a cool project but not very to making indie games today. Also, I'm not a lisp zealot, I personally mostly program in C and C++. I just find Lisp fascinating.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Lisp was extremely productive for serious work in the commercial lisp machine days
        One of the pillars of the anti-Lisp movement was the (accurate) argument that with some up-front design you could write C that performed better and had much lower startup time
        But now that this argument is being used against C (and C++) it's actually wrong and what really matters is fast iteration cycles, which C and C++ give you and Rust doesn't, because C and C++ are really fast to compile and Rust has never even bothered to consider that fast compile times are good for adoption
        But don't switch back to Lisp because those iteration cycles are too fast and what you should actually be doing is designing your program carefully before you write any code

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Rust is fast to compile if you're not poor

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Open GOAL
        It's more of a souse port then a language for making a new game. After having to sit and wait for GB Studio to compile a sample game, I swear to Saint Davis and his elephant that I will make my own backend for rpgs some day. I can already see the benefit of REPL letting me play test somthing as soon as I write it.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >look at this amazing thing other game studio is doing without rust
    >its an inhouse editor, debugger and language
    What was his point?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that you can have better things than a language that takes 10s to compile a 1-line change, and that you should seek those things.

      >Read the article: https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/
      In the article he says he makes games that sell, well his games looks like the classic indie game slop and in fact they get 0-50 reviews on steam. Maybe he's a good programmer but I won't take any advice from him about gamedev outside the programming part

      good thing this article is not about game design

      >Making games is about rapid prototyping and iteration
      That sounds like Lisp. Is Blow Fish telling me I should write my rougelike engage/library in Lisp?

      more viable than rust, why not lol

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Damn I wish I had your dedication and free time to shit post a programming language

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no argument
          >i will just say you have no life because you replied to a thread

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cause your post had arguments...

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >good thing this article is not about game design
        no but his opinion seems less important with games like that

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          good thing you dont need to trust him and can just evaluate his claims for yourself

          Cause your post had arguments...

          it did?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >strawman
            >deflection
            >shitpost
            good arguments

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I will just judge the guy and his games instead of the arguments presented in his article.
            Intellectual Dishonesty

            >nocoder says man who’s used tool and didn’t like it and says why just used it wrong but offers no argument for how to use it right (because he can’t)
            I use Go, I like Go, I think it’s a great general purpose language, but the fact that it has a runtime and garbage collector means it would be wholly unsuited to do systems programming, so if I wanted to do systems programming I’d use a language better suited for the task like C or rust. The OP article is that except reasons why rust is bad for gamedev, address it instead of attacking the author

            What a bunch of seething brainlets, let me quote the author himself because I never said he isn't right
            >I'd even say that it is correct and desirable that players do not care about the developer and just look at the game for a few seconds, but at least that keeps us honest. It keeps the games be about the game itself and nothing else, because ultimately, it is the game and the experience of playing it that matters.
            You're not different than the Rust trannies, his game are ugly and that's a fact. As I said, I would rather seek advices from someone else for gamedev because his results are subpar

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I will just judge the guy and his games instead of the arguments presented in his article.
          Intellectual Dishonesty

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Intellectual dishonesty is when you pull the exact same bullshit when it suits you, i.e. when defending Jon Blows like in previous thread.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You little shits still haven't touched on any point presented in the article or the Jon Blow video.
            This thread is almost entirely an ad hominem from the rustees against the messenger who has valid complaints.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >nocoder says man who’s used tool and didn’t like it and says why just used it wrong but offers no argument for how to use it right (because he can’t)
          I use Go, I like Go, I think it’s a great general purpose language, but the fact that it has a runtime and garbage collector means it would be wholly unsuited to do systems programming, so if I wanted to do systems programming I’d use a language better suited for the task like C or rust. The OP article is that except reasons why rust is bad for gamedev, address it instead of attacking the author

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Read the article: https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/
    In the article he says he makes games that sell, well his games looks like the classic indie game slop and in fact they get 0-50 reviews on steam. Maybe he's a good programmer but I won't take any advice from him about gamedev outside the programming part

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Rust is a low self-esteem language created for zoomer troons whose entire lifestyle is avoiding accountability for their own mistakes. That's why they're always blowing each other.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    johnathan blow is a childless, sexless, failure of a human being who is entirely a product of his californian environment. someone should waterboard him with seed oil so he remembers that's he's a human being.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any competent dev with enough experience who has tried Rust properly quickly realizes what the article states. There are simply some patterns in the language which sucks the joy and productivity out of coding to ensure correctness and performance. While and optimized Rust program is 2x faster than Java/C#/Go it's 10x slower to iterate new features so the average Rust program performance is often worse while still being painful to write.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If prototyping is so vital why not do it in one of those toy languages and write the final product in rust?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cause often you don't know when your done. You might create a prototype, rewrite it in Rust and all of a sudden a new requirement shows up. This happens all the time, most code is in a constant state of change.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >why not write the entire codebase twice in completely different languages?
        That seems rather expensive and often in software there is no "final product". The code keeps changing and integrating new features as needed.
        You can't maintain two copies of your entire codebase just to prototype new features in one and then port them to Rust.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But Jon Blow doesn't do that. He only makes products that have a well defined final version.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But he does not really. Game development ( just like any development ) is a process that involves trying a bunch of things, quickly iterating until you have something that plays well. I would argue that you don't really have a final version, rather you reach the point where you are happy with the state and you decide to stop. Often you can't know what the defined final version is, even if you decide ahead of time, it often changes

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ziggers rise up. Rust has 0 usage in production. Zig has 1. Zig wins.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Using a buggy unfinished language in production
      Who's the moron using it in production right now?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Who else but fintech would be so dumb?

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I guess I agree with some of the overall sentiment, but some of this feels like bikeshedding. I don't find it so convincing even though I mostly agree with it.
    I think there is a bigger issue in that pretty much every language feels at odds with game development. C++ seems the best at first, but it also lets you have a nice day in the foot so easily, and the kind of programming you do in games involves a lot of aiming near your own foot.
    relying on Carmack-tier programmers to keep the whole thing from falling apart is not really a good state of affairs. and this is why most game companies end up building some scripting language on top of their engine, because you can't trust anyone but true wizard-autists to touch the C++.

    the level of dynamic memory management in games is at an extreme and really no programming language was created to handle it. garbage collection lets you ignore this problem, but you have to pay the price in performance. Rust also solves some portion of these problems, but you pay the price else where, in writing the code and compile time.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most indie games can probably just get away with loading everything up front. Shit gets worse when you have to deal with streaming.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you can load assets up front, but even in a simple indie game you are probably dynamically creating instances of entities.
        think of vampire survivors for example. each projectile needs to get represented somehow in memory. and spawning things is simple enough, but where things get dicey is when you think about who owns that projectile.
        maybe the enemy that shot it owns it, but that falls apart pretty quickly because what if the enemy dies before their projectile despawns.
        you usually end up with some kind of gamestate manager singleton class that all of the dynamic entities belong too. and this works on some level. but now I need to be able to do lookups into that giant collection of entities and I start running into rough edges. what if I use an array, and a projectile despawns? do I just leave that index empty? how do I keep track of which indices are empty or not. the problems just kind of pile on top of each other.
        you can solve all of these issues of course, but they are uglier than they seem on the surface.

        most programming models are oriented around some kind of nice tree structure that tells us which object owns other objects. even if you aren't doing object oriented programming you end up with something like this. in games this ideal tree would be way too dynamic because things are spawning/despawning too frequently.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why is this pleasant bald man talking about shit that doesn't interest him if he exclusively uses C/C++ or some such shit?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He's making a programming language and people are often like "why not just use Rust?". Same with game engines. So this is a "why not?" response.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      OP's post is not by J Blows

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically, Verse and Jai-Lang may be the only future languages to challenge the status quo in vidya game programming. As ugly as it may be at times, nothing really comes close to C++.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    so why don't people use D then? It has fast iteration times the GC can be tuned and there are ways to avoid it entirely if you don't care for the standard library. Why do people prefer java or c# which are much slower to compile?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      people don't actually know what they want and will say things that aren't true

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      As Bjarne once said, "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." D imo is actually pretty good but is in the category of programming languages that hasn't made a splash big enough to justify using over C++ (and now even Rust). D is like a beta test of newer C++ versions since they keep adding useful Dlang features but with an optional gc, package manager, cleaner syntax and other modern features. The only real killer features are BetterC, ImportC, and SafeD. The only high profile game I know made with D Lang is Quantum Break.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Just C++ with a garbage collector
      >In systems programming
      That may be the reason why, any language that has a GC is pretty much useless for systems programming.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        OP is about game programming.

        >java or c# which are much slower to compile
        But they're JIT languages.
        Java's used because it's extremely portable.
        C# is probably used because Microsoft, WPF also makes CRUD a meme. It also has a great UI builder and some great QoL features, I don't care how much you hate C# I've never heard anyone say anything bad about properties.
        They're also both very simple to write languages, abstract enough that you can do what you need while also having acceptable performance. No real frick ups possible.

        main argument is having fast iteration times and being easy enough while having good performance D has those. I agree community is tiny and it doesn't have the eternal backing of a big corp still wondering why its not somewhat popular.
        Maybe its just the fact that there isn't/wasn't a good graphics library but now with raylib bindings it could be a candidate.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >java or c# which are much slower to compile
      But they're JIT languages.
      Java's used because it's extremely portable.
      C# is probably used because Microsoft, WPF also makes CRUD a meme. It also has a great UI builder and some great QoL features, I don't care how much you hate C# I've never heard anyone say anything bad about properties.
      They're also both very simple to write languages, abstract enough that you can do what you need while also having acceptable performance. No real frick ups possible.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >5 year old video
    lol
    >he starts it off by watching a few minutes of a rust conf 2018 presentation, it's a troony
    lmao

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      how do you know?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The voice and the fact it's a rust programmer discussing autistic parts of engine development.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just realized I quoted the wrong post

        how do you know?

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I've been making games with Rust for several years
    >Rust has some very annoying features which makes gamedev annoying that the Rust community and some Rust game libraries like to ignore
    >Rust has some good aspects as well so it's not all that bad
    >we'll be moving to C#, though it's less performant than Rust
    >anyway here's my Rust 2D library for gamedev that's inspired/depends on another Rust gamedev library that doesn't have the aforementioned annoying features
    That's the gist of the article.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it's always brainlets who overcomplicate things then write articles about how they were forced to overcomplicate things because uhhhhhhhh

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You forgot
      >"I released this article the day I released my game, just a coincidence although it would have taken me quite a while to write this article"

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    /g/ophers we can't stop winning!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      which game engines are written in go?

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