Just finished this behemoth. Great book.

Just finished this behemoth. Great book. I feel like he's saying something about forgery/fakeness but I'm not sure I got it. So there's Wyatt and his art forgery and Otto and his play rehashing what he hears from others, but how does it all fit together? Does the faustian bargain have some relevancy? Also I read he was heavily inspired by 'The Waste Land' so I think maybe he's getting at something with the lack of meaning in contemporary society, maybe the party scenes? I don't know, there was a lot going on and much of it filtered me, but I'd like to what anyone else who's read got from it.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bait?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm honestly baffled at how my post could in any way shape or form be bait, unless your implication was I was filtered which by all means is true.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's so vague it has to be either a troll post or a product of listening to the audio version of the book

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Ok, well just go back to your hundredth dostoevsky thread so you won't need to keep crying about this one

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hit a nerve there? Didn't intend to.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're still here crying? I see I gave you too much credit. Good luck.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Don't need to be so fragile. Like

            My first suggestion is just ignore obvious trolls like , [...]. For some reason Gaddis threads attract these particular kinds of autists who never contribute and seem to only be around to wreck the thread for whatever reason. But it if they want to waste their time like that so be it.

            Second, you're on the mark with forgery and the Eliot connection. Maybe not as pessimistic as Eliot's sterile waste land, but near. Try and connect the forgery with meaning. Because think about it, if nothing matters and nothing has any meaning then...
            Give it a reread with that in mind, or at least go over certain sections again and I think you can get more out of it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My first suggestion is just ignore obvious trolls like ,

      It's so vague it has to be either a troll post or a product of listening to the audio version of the book

      . For some reason Gaddis threads attract these particular kinds of autists who never contribute and seem to only be around to wreck the thread for whatever reason. But it if they want to waste their time like that so be it.

      Second, you're on the mark with forgery and the Eliot connection. Maybe not as pessimistic as Eliot's sterile waste land, but near. Try and connect the forgery with meaning. Because think about it, if nothing matters and nothing has any meaning then...
      Give it a reread with that in mind, or at least go over certain sections again and I think you can get more out of it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, he's still posting though. I do wonder what I said that upset him so much? Honestly seems like a redditor who's not used to getting the IQfy treatment and doesn't know how to handle it, but you're right, I should ignore those kinds of losers.

        Anyway, thanks for the tip. Can you go into the connection between forgery and meaning a little bit deeper? I think I'm getting it, but I feel like I'm only scratching the surface.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >I do wonder what I said that upset him so much?
          There's a certain group of people who rather than studying literature, use it as a signifier to project what they want the world to see them as, namely "intelligent." But when they come across a complex novel like TR, or Ulysses, or Gravity's Rainbow, they're are faced with their inability to understand it and must either accept that (which would be better, as you've done and others can help) or lash out in anger at their own ignorance. They pretend with their "cope and seethe" posts, but at the end of the day their will always be that little voice in the back of their head that tells them "I was filtered."

          >Anyway, thanks for the tip. Can you go into the connection between forgery and meaning a little bit deeper? I think I'm getting it, but I feel like I'm only scratching the surface.
          To be honest, I think I've given you more than enough, and to be fair some of it is easy to piece together, not like I'm an oracle of hidden knowledge. I'll say one more thing and then I'm out: there's a Titian painting that's a forgery. They remove it and underneath there's another painting that's not worth anything. But then they remove that and, hey, there's a real Titian underneath. Priceless and immaculate.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, he's still posting though. I do wonder what I said that upset him so much? Honestly seems like a redditor who's not used to getting the IQfy treatment and doesn't know how to handle it, but you're right, I should ignore those kinds of losers.

            Anyway, thanks for the tip. Can you go into the connection between forgery and meaning a little bit deeper? I think I'm getting it, but I feel like I'm only scratching the surface.

            Samegayging

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This is an incredible response, copypasta worthy, even

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You are brown

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >There's a certain group of people who rather than studying literature, use it as a signifier to project what they want the world to see them as, namely "intelligent." But when they come across a complex novel like TR, or Ulysses, or Gravity's Rainbow, they're are faced with their inability to understand it and must either accept that (which would be better, as you've done and others can help) or lash out in anger at their own ignorance. They pretend with their "cope and seethe" posts, but at the end of the day their will always be that little voice in the back of their head that tells them "I was filtered."
            damn, you killed him… and about 99% of /lit…

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hey now, some of us were even filtered by stuff like 1984. Still won't stop me from shitposting.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'm currently about one-third through, and I can definitely sense there is a pattern in the side narratives and plot dealing with forgery and falsity but it is so goddamned long that I probably have to slog through it 10 more times to get it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's great. It did feel like a slog for me at times, but the ending was wonderful. It made me immediately want to reread it, but thinking of the time/effort to get through it I'm going to wait for a few months.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Another thing is that I was reading on my phone and the physical copy costs twice a normal penguin classics book (where I live, books are rather expensive). Pity that Penguin Classics ceased printing these.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Oof, can't imagine reading this on my phone. Maybe an ereader if I had one. I actually have the penguins classics version (if that's the one with the stuart davis painting). I actually got it used, perhaps it would be possible to do that?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The shipping from Amazon itself makes it unviable for me to get a copy of that, I'm thinking of getting the NYRB one once I get some extra cash

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I see. Good luck, anon. Hope you can get a copy. If I had known the NYRB version before I definitely would've gotten that one.

            >I'll say one more thing and then I'm out: there's a Titian painting that's a forgery. They remove it and underneath there's another painting that's not worth anything. But then they remove that and, hey, there's a real Titian underneath. Priceless and immaculate.
            To be %100 honest, I still don't get it, but I'll ruminate over it and go through it again. Thanks for the help.

            i never got the impression gaddis was trying to make some big point about forgery in the recognitions, i don't think there's a grand message to the thing, its just gaddis's frustration at 1950s american society. though a lot of it still holds up today, especially with the influx of AI art.

            That's a good point. Maybe I was overthinking? And what do you mean by the influx of AI art and the connection between this book? It sounds interesting.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Oops this
            >To be %100 honest, I still don't get it, but I'll ruminate over it and go through it again. Thanks for the help.
            was meant for

            >I do wonder what I said that upset him so much?
            There's a certain group of people who rather than studying literature, use it as a signifier to project what they want the world to see them as, namely "intelligent." But when they come across a complex novel like TR, or Ulysses, or Gravity's Rainbow, they're are faced with their inability to understand it and must either accept that (which would be better, as you've done and others can help) or lash out in anger at their own ignorance. They pretend with their "cope and seethe" posts, but at the end of the day their will always be that little voice in the back of their head that tells them "I was filtered."

            >Anyway, thanks for the tip. Can you go into the connection between forgery and meaning a little bit deeper? I think I'm getting it, but I feel like I'm only scratching the surface.
            To be honest, I think I've given you more than enough, and to be fair some of it is easy to piece together, not like I'm an oracle of hidden knowledge. I'll say one more thing and then I'm out: there's a Titian painting that's a forgery. They remove it and underneath there's another painting that's not worth anything. But then they remove that and, hey, there's a real Titian underneath. Priceless and immaculate.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            well the entire premise of the book is that pretty much nobody else in the book takes art as seriously as wyatt does. wyatt thinks that creating art has to have an intrinsitc meaning "you dont just draw lines you have to know that each line couldn't have been anywhere else", he worships the flemish artists because like God, they 'did not relax', and fretted over every single detail in their paintings. this ends up becoming a metaphor for pretty much everything wrong in american society, at least in gaddis's view, how we've reached a point where advances in science and technology have given us the potential to achieve anything but as a result we hold nothing sacred and live more meaningless lives. i guess you can see how AI art makes the book even more relevant in today's times, (though i do think there are aspects of the book that show its age as well).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That’s a great analysis. The way you took it from just art to gaddis’ view on society and culture is insightful. Your point about ai art really shows how timeless this book can be, I guess like all great books. I see now I was filtered beyond what I thought. Really good work, anon.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i never got the impression gaddis was trying to make some big point about forgery in the recognitions, i don't think there's a grand message to the thing, its just gaddis's frustration at 1950s american society. though a lot of it still holds up today, especially with the influx of AI art.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Hijacking the thread to ask about the metaphor of the man in the sky coming down to free the anchor and drowning or something? It's repeated in the text but I can't fathom the meaning.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's Joyce fanfiction.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Gaddis never read Joyce.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        gaddis is an unreliable interlocutor

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That's your opinion.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You don't seriously believe that, do you?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >I feel like he's saying something about forgery/fakeness but I'm not sure I got it.
    Lol you finished TR and this was your takeaway?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What's with the recent influx of redditors who say "lol" at the beginning or end of their posts like

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        We are all IQfyners here:
        Sneed's Seed & Feed
        See?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's not redditors, it's zoomers more specifically. He's probably never read a book, they've grown up playing fortnite and watching endless loops of tiktok for hours on end. Internet addiction has rotted their brains

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