Military draft debate

Is the draft constitutional? Is it fair to force young lower class men to fight in battle? Should women, minorities, or queers be drafted? Should the leaders who started the wars also be forced to fight? Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity, or are they brave for not leaving behind their families for an oppressive regime? Should people who were forced under draft and command be labeled as war criminals or betrayers to their loved ones? Ask and answer questions regarding military recruitment here. Give your reasonings while doing so.

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  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is the draft constitutional?
    Its neither constitutional nor unconstitutional
    >Is it fair to force young lower class men to fight in battle?
    No, and I don't think being forced to fight would make for a good soldier anyways
    >Should women, minorities, or queers be drafted?
    If they want to volunteer than can go right ahead as long as they're willing to die for their country and ready to be treated exactly the same as the men are.
    >Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity, or are they brave for not leaving behind their families for an oppressive regime?
    Depends
    > Should people who were forced under draft and command be labeled as war criminals or betrayers to their loved ones?
    A nation as a whole should be held accountable for war crimes, not necesarilly individuals who are just following orders.

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is no constitution, the present regime in America flagrantly violates its own "laws" daily, they only apply to right-wing Americans. Ideally there would be a warrior-aristocracy doing most of the fighting like in a normal society, but that's a long ways off.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the present regime in America flagrantly violates its own "laws" daily
      proof?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous
        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >prosecutorial discretion is unconstitutional
          do you happen to have a source for this claim?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >do you happen to have a source for this claim?
            >land of da free
            >worshiping of overdosed drug criminal is de facto state religion

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            So you're actually just here to derail the thread,

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So you're actually just here to derail the thread,

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            He's just a russian dodging the draft.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >He's just a russian dodging the dr-ACK

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is the draft constitutional?
    I don't know & don't care.
    >Is it fair to force young lower class men to fight in battle?
    It's not clear why it would be. Individuals don't have the right to force others to defend them, so it's not clear why the state would have a right to force people to defend itself. Proponents of conscription have the burden to show why that would be justified.
    >Should women, minorities, or queers be drafted?
    If there must be a draft, I don't see why anyone who can fight shouldn't be subject to it. Advocates for exceptions would have burden of proof.
    >Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity, or are they brave for not leaving behind their families for an oppressive regime?
    I'm a pacifist, so I don't think it's cowardly to refuse to fight in a war. Almost all historical wars fail the standards of just war theory, & governments routinely lie. You as an ordinary citizen are basically never in a position to know whether a given war is justified until after the fact. Even if your country is attacked, standard just war theory prohibits defensive war when there is not a reasonable chance of victory, which obviously an ordinary citizen is never in a position to determine. So, you should always refuse to support a war.
    >Should people who were forced under draft and command be labeled as war criminals or betrayers to their loved ones?
    It's not clear why you would be absolved of moral responsibility just because someone "forced" you to do a war crime. Even if you are threatened, it's not morally permissible to harm innocent people in order to save yourself. If you're in a crowded place & a shooter enters and starts killing people, it would not be morally justified to grab someone & use them as a human shield simply to save your own life. So, there's no reason why a war criminal ought to be absolved of responsibility even if they were coerced by their superiors. It's better to suffer evil than to do it.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Even if you are threatened, it's not morally permissible to harm innocent people in order to save yourself
      Source?

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    draft is cringe, go full conscription or stick to a "professional" military. Draft is the military version of wanting to eat the cake but to also keep it.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Draft is immoral simply because its very occurence means the failure of a standing army. Standing army serves no useful function during peace time and its one job is to be trained and ready for warfare. When it fails to suffice the country's political apparatus must be declared a failure and dismantled for something else.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    A draft is unnecessary in a stable society that isn't one bad day away from the brink of collapse so the argument is irrelevant.

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity
    if you were an american jap or Black during world war ii there was no chance of prosperity because the gi bill didn't bypass racial segregation and redlining.

    so draft dodging was the rational choice.

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is the draft constitutional?
    Yes.
    >Is it fair to force young lower class men to fight in battle?
    That's not really how it works and plenty of upper class men volunteer in times of war.
    >Should women, minorities, or queers be drafted?
    Women maybe, minorities yes, queers yes.
    >Should the leaders who started the wars also be forced to fight?
    Commander in Chief is part of the fight. You mean go to the frontlines? No because that's fricking stupid.
    >Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity, or are they brave for not leaving behind their families for an oppressive regime?
    Complicated question. I don't have a problem with skirting military service (particularly in a war like Vietnam), but if you dodge the draft like say George W. Bush and then shit on John Kerry's service you are subhuman trash.
    >Should people who were forced under draft and command be labeled as war criminals or betrayers to their loved ones?
    Soldiers have a duty to refuse orders that essentially amount to a felony.

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Should the leaders who started the wars also be forced to fight?
    Anyone "leader" who supports a war but refuses to fight should have his taxes raised to 80% as a form of contribution or be hanged for treason and cowardice on refusal.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >heads of state should basically commit suicide during wartime, when they're needed most, because, uh... that's what they did one thousand years ago before we invented predator drones
      you make a compelling case, anon.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        that's why there's the alternative to contribute in the form of taxes. put your money where your mouth is or stfu.

        the upper class always provoke wars for their addiction to stock market gambling and never suffer the consequences of their autism.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >give me your money or I'll kill you (albeit in a roundabout way)
          black mentality. Your ideal policies are entirely shaped by petty revenge.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            it's justice, not revenge.

            do you think the average russian/ukrainian drafter in the donbass war wants to be there?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          that shit doesn't matter when the vast majority of people are morons though.

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Until the Civil War, military service in the United States was voluntary, following English traditions. The Confederacy introduced universal conscription of white males under 60 in spring 1862 unless they owned 20 or more slaves. The North did not introduce conscription until early in the following year and over much protest from state governors. The Civil War draft was a flawed system as anyone could buy an exemption from it for $300 or hire a bounty soldier to serve in their place; said bounty soldiers were often in it for money or totally unfit for service.[3]

    >The US next used mandatory military service during World War I, which drafted all able-bodied men from ages 21 to 45. This system was used in the early part of WWII but in 1944 the draft age was lowered to 18 as the demand for manpower grew more and more rapacious. With V-J Day, the draft disappeared again until its revival in the Korean War a few years later. Contrary to established norms, the draft was maintained after the 1953 armistice and would exist until the end of US involvement in Vietnam in 1973. It does not seem likely that conscription will appear again in the United States for the foreseeable future.[3]

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Minorities and queers do get drafted constantly as long as they have a citizenship. Why is this a question

  13. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Muh constitution
    >Yea you have to follow this set of silly rules made up by a cartoon nation
    Yea, okay Boomer.

  14. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Whose constitution?

  15. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    This is a useless question because the US will not have a draft anytime soon. There just won't be. Nobody supports it. The military will simply wind down certain operations and when Congress actually has to deal with the consequences of reduced operational capability, they will increase military pay to the Federal min wage and officer pay to the prevailing competitive wage. This will increase military spending by a factor of ten and force complete automation of the navy and air force.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      We won't have a draft because we'll kill every member of the troon platoons that try to shanghai us, not because it's unpopular.

  16. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Only women and lgbt should be drafted. You csn get out of the draft through pregnancy. That won't be an official rule but like how pregnancy current gets you discharged that will remain. This will ensure there is a constant supply and women and lgbt available for the draft as anyone who want to draft dodge is by necessity will creating someone who will be eligible for the draft later on. It is the perfect system.

  17. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Conscription is only justified if your country is being invaded like Ukraine is.

  18. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is the draft constitutional?
    Why wouldn't it be?
    >Is it fair to force young lower class men to fight in battle?
    There's no wealth based exemption for anyone
    >Should women, minorities, or queers be drafted?
    Yes.
    >Should the leaders who started the wars also be forced to fight?
    That would cripple the government, so no.
    >Are draft dodgers cowards for not serving their country that granted them prosperity, or are they brave for not leaving behind their families for an oppressive regime?
    Depends on the regime. Depends on the conflict.
    >Should people who were forced under draft and command be labeled as war criminals or betrayers to their loved ones?
    Getting drafted isn't an excuse to carry out war crimes.

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