momgolsisters...aren't we supposed to conquer Europe?

momgolsisters...aren't we supposed to conquer Europe?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hungarians are steppenigs too. Gotta fight steppenig with steppenig.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fpbp

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fpbp

      Fact is heavy cavalry btfos light cavalry always. Euro Cav also had heavier and bigger horses

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mongols have heavy lancer, burger anon

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          No, all Turkish steppe breed are wiry small horses and Mongolian breeds are pony sized. The only elite heavy calvary they could levy was from tributes and in Persia, which mind you wasnt just going to give their elite calvary to the Golden horde when they needed it to fight heavy Levant Turkmen horsemen

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Mongols already btfo Rus heavy cav decades before, plus their 1240 invasion with sucessful battles vs Euros (including Knights Templar at Mohi)

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Russians never had plate armour heavy cav in the half the same numbers as any kingdom West of Poland.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_plate_armour

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >plate armour in the 13th century
            fricking moron

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Fact is heavy cavalry btfos light cavalry always
        Sure, if the former can actually lay her swords on the latter.
        Ever heard of Parthian tactics?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Doesn't work much if you need to assault the enemy upon a fortified position, e.g. a castle.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          moronic analogy, Parthian horses were among the best in the world during antiquity, they employed such a small elite force given their population because they valued quality light and heavy horse themselves. Romans were the pony riding solely light force in this scenario not the Parthians.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          They can't hurt heavy cavs. 90% of the time when light cav beats heavy cavs is because the leaders overcommitted and get into a trap
          Light cavs can't even beat umounted homie

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        This. I'm fricking sick of pop historians trying to act if Mongols didn't outright just get BTFO by heavy cav in Europe.

        The second cope is that there were mostly no big battles, just skirmishes of knights stationed in castles killing off raiders as if that isn't also a clever hard counter to the Mongol conquest strategy.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Knights are simply most effective in smaller more maneuverable bands than most soldiers. You see the same thing happen with a lot of successes in the Crusades. Stuff like 12 men taking castles singlehandedly and the like. Elite warbands winning skirmishes and many smaller sieges and forts is just how medieval europeans fought.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            The western style of heavy shock cavalry can be used to great effect in traditional pitched battles

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Exactly.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Black person the "Mongols" in Europe were a small off-branch of an off-branch of the original Mongols that stayed North to farm Slav tax money
          transport Mongolia to Western Europe with the armies that conquered Persia and China and they would roll over the entire continent

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong, literally half of the peak Mongolian forces were in Europe.

            The crusade launched against them was also bigger than the peak force Genghis had which scared Mongols out of Catholic Europe, even if they had given battle with concentrated peak strength they would've lost.

            They were not even considered a serious threat to the Western kingdoms whom resumed war with each other very quickly, long before any Mongol civil war.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >source: my butthole

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong, my source is historical sources.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >half of the peak Mongolian forces
            The Mongol invasion force that conquered half of Europe was literally 1/10 the size of Mongol invasion force in Central Asia.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Cope

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Concession accepted.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >The largest force Genghis Khan ever assembled was that with which he conquered the Khwarizmian Empire (Persia): less than 240,000 men. The Mongol armies which conquered Russia and all of Eastern and Central Europe never exceeded 150,000 men.

            It was half the size. This still far outnumbered "Eastern Europe" by which you mean literally just two small cities. They lost in Central Europe.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            they didn't outnumber the hordes of endless nazis in europe

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Mongols absolutely destroyed European heavy cavalry during the first round of invasions. They only left because of the Kurultai back in Mongolia, the selection of the next Khan. By the time they Mongols attacked again, the Empire had splintered, and it was a successor state comprised of various non-Mongol tribes assimilated into the Golden Horde successor state that attacked Hungary.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >They only left because of the Kurultai back in Mongolia, the selection of the next Khan
          Nonsense myth. They literally never left, see

          [...]
          You're spreading nonsense cope myths. Batu Khan never actually went back to Mongolia, the Mongolian leaders of what would become the Golden West never left the West and in fact more royalty and armies from Mongolia were repeatedly sent West with the explicit goal of conquering Europe, as Mongolian records show.

          In particular after many of Ögedei's relatives died in Europe. He sent
          Güyük and Kadan back with the explicit command to conquer Poland and Hungary, they failed. They were forced to retreat because their raiding parties kept getting butchered. Even the retreat in the second Hungarian campaign wasn't orderly it was butchered on the way out and took no loot.

          Again, Mongol records show the goal was conquest not just looting. They lost. They kept trying for a century and kept losing.

          . There was never a single point in time when the supreme Mongol commander of the Mongol forces in Europe left. In fact as the Mongol generals kept dying they kept being reinforced by new members of Genghis' family for a century. They had explicit orders on record to _conquer_ Poland and Hungary, not just raid it.

          As a testament to how badly they failed there are more Mongol weapons artifacts in German museums alone today than there are in all of Mongolia lol.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >they left due to the succession crisis
          they literally didnt leave explicitly because to return home meant they surrendered their autonomy. as long as they remained in the field they retained a high degree of autonomy within the mongol political structure.

          The fact the mongols were forced out of the Balkans and Pannonia only proves how soundly they were defeated, they were beaten so thoroughly they surrendered not only their conquests but also their political freedom and returned to being subjects of one of the four 'big' Khanates.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Russians never had plate armour heavy cav in the half the same numbers as any kingdom West of Poland.

        This. I'm fricking sick of pop historians trying to act if Mongols didn't outright just get BTFO by heavy cav in Europe.

        The second cope is that there were mostly no big battles, just skirmishes of knights stationed in castles killing off raiders as if that isn't also a clever hard counter to the Mongol conquest strategy.

        Hungarians at Mohi and Poles and Germans at Legnica were indistinguishable from any other feudal army in equipment, training, and quality.
        The fact that the knights had to hide in their castles while the civilians were relentlessly enslaved or slaughtered is all you need to know about the "superiority" of European knights.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Massive small dick energy

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Basing your entire strategy around the fact that Mongol BVLLS are too powerful to face in an open field is indeed small dick energy.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Mongols did the same and much more often

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Mongols were the ones that refused to give battle to Frederik II's crusade and ran away like little b***hes.

            Their tactic relied on attacking undefended women and children. Europeans managed to defend almost everyone and butchered Mongol raiding parties.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >The Mongols avoided the enemy to perform a feigned retreat that slaughtered puny westoids.
            You mean they ran away.
            >Westoid fortifications kept the nobility and their closest servants at relative safety, but allowed Mongols to kill, rape, or enslave anyone outside of them since there was no help coming.
            >Hungary lost the 2nd invasion. Hungarians suffered a great demographic and economic loss while the Mongols pillaged their country and left.
            Blahblahblah.

            Mongols lost. Get over it dickletchud.

            [...]
            [...]
            The Mongols avoided the enemy to perform a feigned retreat that slaughtered puny westoids.
            Westoid fortifications kept the nobility and their closest servants at relative safety, but allowed Mongols to kill, rape, or enslave anyone outside of them since there was no help coming.
            Hungary lost the 2nd invasion. Hungarians suffered a great demographic and economic loss while the Mongols pillaged their country and left.
            [...]
            Frederick II's crusade never happened. He ordered his servants to hole up in castles like pussies because he knew after Legnica and Mohi that they'd be annihilated and then begged all of Europe for help against the Mongols.
            Mongol raiding parties were overwhelmingly successful, Europeans lacked the cavalry and skirmishing element to actually catch and harm them.

            >Frederick II's crusade never happened.
            Yes it did, there are more records and writings about the crusade than there were writings produced in the entire Mongol empire periord.

            >Mongol raiding parties were overwhelmingly successful, Europeans lacked the cavalry and skirmishing element to actually catch and harm them.
            Cope and nope, there are records of European knights BTFO Mongol raiding parties with 10:1 k/d ratios:

            >Mongol probing attacks materialised on the Holy Roman Empire's border states: a force was repulsed in a skirmish near Kłodzko, 300–700 Mongol troops were killed in a battle near Vienna to 100 Austrian losses (according to the Duke of Austria),
            Literally annihilating over 3% of the Mongol forces in this one skirmish alone.
            >and a Mongol raiding party was destroyed by Austrian knights in the district of Theben after being backed to the border of the River March.

            There are many more like these reported in Bohemia, Bavaria etc. Mongols just got BTFO and ran.

            The only reason the crusade did not pursue the Mongols is because Frederick II got excommunicated. The civil struggles in Western Europe were far more important than the Mongol which was never a serious threat to Europeans.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Pot calling the kettle black talking about cowardice when Mongol tactics were amongst the most b***h made in history, literally abandoning women and children at the sign of an enemy force to stay more mobile lmao There's a reason Turks took over 3 out of 4 of the successor states

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Mongols did the same and much more often

            Mongols lost, so I guess Europeans were indeed superior.

            See OP et al. for how badly Mongols ACK-ed.

            The Mongols avoided the enemy to perform a feigned retreat that slaughtered puny westoids.
            Westoid fortifications kept the nobility and their closest servants at relative safety, but allowed Mongols to kill, rape, or enslave anyone outside of them since there was no help coming.
            Hungary lost the 2nd invasion. Hungarians suffered a great demographic and economic loss while the Mongols pillaged their country and left.

            Mongols were the ones that refused to give battle to Frederik II's crusade and ran away like little b***hes.

            Their tactic relied on attacking undefended women and children. Europeans managed to defend almost everyone and butchered Mongol raiding parties.

            Frederick II's crusade never happened. He ordered his servants to hole up in castles like pussies because he knew after Legnica and Mohi that they'd be annihilated and then begged all of Europe for help against the Mongols.
            Mongol raiding parties were overwhelmingly successful, Europeans lacked the cavalry and skirmishing element to actually catch and harm them.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Euros in this thread are on par with coping Black folk and jeets who can't accept that they lost and make up ridiculous copes to make up for their fields being burnt and their women getting raped

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Not a single castle or city citadel fell to the mongols in the entire 20 year occupation of hungary.
            Siberian Y DNA from the Bronze Age is more common in Hungary than Mongol Y DNA.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Mongols lost, and tartars by and large have European male haplogroups from the massive amount of Russian rape. Also nearly all of the western "Mongol" forces were just Turks

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Euros in this thread are on par with coping Black folk and jeets who can't accept that they lost
            We didn't lose, we won. India also won.

            You are just coping because Chinks and Persians LOST and were conquered.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            So why didn't they conquer Hungary and Poland? In addition, the Czechs and Lithuanians defeated squads of the horde

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Mongols lost, so I guess Europeans were indeed superior.

          See OP et al. for how badly Mongols ACK-ed.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Why is no one disputing this by providing actual example like Sir Smythe (a Knight and a Men at arms) witnessing le real albanian light cavalry pushing Men at arms back or the Koreans halting and routing a Jurchen regiment of cataphracts with horse archers (by a frontal charge) or that one battle the Croatians were routed by Akinji with the general being knocked off in a duel. In fact the Ottoman invasion and the Mongol annihilation fostered a lot of excellent light cavalryment with melee capaibilities that could fend off and sometimes defeat heavier cavalry.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Jurchen regiment of cataphracts
          lmao what??? The Manchu never fielded heavy horse, they dressed up pony sized horses in leather
          >inb4 he posts a modern "reconstruction"
          No contemporary artwork depicted heavy horse or heavilly armored horses

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't matter what the size of the horses are, the post is talking about light cavalry beating Heavy cavalry. The Koreans were using Khitan and Korean criminals on Mongol ponies to beat Jurchens retinues with Mongol and Jurchen breeds who were actually armored. The role is the focus here not whoever had the largest horse.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            They were not armored, the riders were also only lightly armored as was the Chink custom

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Where do you get that from? Jurchens from above the Yalu were famous for having heavy armor. Southern and eastern Jurchens were lightly armed.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            They werent heavily armored. Where tf are you pulling that from?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            The veritable records of the Joseon dynasty where it says Taejo defeats a Jurchen Warlord armed with steel armor and a face mask that was articulated at the mouth.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            A single commander is not:
            >Jurchens retinues with Mongol and Jurchen breeds who were actually armored

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Na hachu who i am referencing had the articulated armor, but another Jurchen commander known as Hobaldo was also wore double layers of armor in style of wanyan's troops. The Jurchens under Yi's command were also armored by law. It seems pretty consistent to me. Why would the Koreans be armored but Jurchens not? Especially when they were famous for it because of Wanyan.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Korean Jurchens*

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Many centuries ago they became westernized

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      nah they're russians

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >golden hord
    Those were the Turkic remnant of the horde when the Mongols had gone back home.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      cope

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        He's right, you know.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      He's right, you know.

      You're spreading nonsense cope myths. Batu Khan never actually went back to Mongolia, the Mongolian leaders of what would become the Golden West never left the West and in fact more royalty and armies from Mongolia were repeatedly sent West with the explicit goal of conquering Europe, as Mongolian records show.

      In particular after many of Ögedei's relatives died in Europe. He sent
      Güyük and Kadan back with the explicit command to conquer Poland and Hungary, they failed. They were forced to retreat because their raiding parties kept getting butchered. Even the retreat in the second Hungarian campaign wasn't orderly it was butchered on the way out and took no loot.

      Again, Mongol records show the goal was conquest not just looting. They lost. They kept trying for a century and kept losing.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        This.

        Wrong
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_plate_armour

        This is a type of shitty segmented armour. So you're saying that Russians never even had any proper plate armour like Catholic Kingdoms at all?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >This is a type of shitty segmented armour
          That is the exact type of "plate armor" that Catholics used during the mongol invasions

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >did they have plate armour in the 13th century hurr durr

            Catholics had plate cuirasses you idiots. It's a massive difference from segmented armour because segmented armour can be destroyed by damage to the stiching and do not offer full protection from projectiles.

            You are confusing full plate armour with later inventions like Couters early 13 century etc., but Western Europeans have been making plate armour cuirass pieces as early as Hallstatt.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >did they have plate armour in the 13th century hurr durr

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    How did 30k-200k lose to ~30k? What?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      K n i g h t s

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Because for some reason the Wiki article is presenting an entire war, in which the forces of Nogai were withered by failed sieges and multiple skirmishes and raids by Hungarian forces, as a single battle.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      they didn't moron
      stop believing medieval troop number accounts at face value

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine being so fricking fragile you have to make a point about your group defeating some guys 700 years ago whose decadents barely come here anyway

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    If only they had some rocks.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      anyway they protected Europe from the Muslims

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        My paternal name is that of someone who died fighting at Szigetvar.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >needing a Romanian to defeat the Turks for you
        >immediately get your ass conquered as soon as he dies
        embarrassing

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >needing a romanian
          Still thinking you're Dacian, Andrei?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Janos Hunyadi (Iancu de Hunedoara) is literally a Romanian.
            He's from an ennobled Vlach family in Transylvania. Matthias Corvinus is also part Romanian by connection.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >John was born into a noble family in 1387 (or 1400 according to some sources) as the son of Vojk (Voicu), a boyar from Wallachia and Erzsébet Morzsinay the daughter of a Hungarian noble family. John's grandfather was named Sorb (also spelled as Serbu or Serbe), a Romanian Knyaz from the Banate of Szörény (Severin). An alternative theory states that John Hunyadi's parental line was of Cuman descent on his father's side.
          https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/John_Hunyadi
          Hunyadi was a GigaMutt

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            so, a united balkans can stop any threat

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      They lost in their raids too though, unlike Vikings who sometimes escaped with loot and conquered regions permanently. Pathetic comaprison.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >hehhehehe steppeBlack folk could never conquer muh ebin evropean heimat
    >-ACK

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      steppeBlack folk could never conquer muh ebin evropean heimat
      Yes
      https://history-maps.com/story/History-of-Hungary/event/Christianization-of-the-Magyars

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Indeed, Huns did also LOSE and got annihilated by Germanics. Literally got butchered so completely they disappeared from history entirely.

      Problem?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >LARP map
      for what purpose?

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    ?si=5ozLG_DG9iG8Pz1o

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The reason they won was because they had fortified their castles etc after the first Mongol invasion
    There wasn't big battles. The Hungarians used attrition
    So all these people itt thread larping about heavy cavalry vs light etc are just straight up pulling it out of their ass

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Still won every battle

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >used attrition
      >So all these people itt thread larping about heavy cavalry vs light etc are just straight up pulling it out of their ass
      Except the attrition was literally accomplished through heavy cav stationed at castles skirmishing against light cav, this is the explicit doctrine adopted by the king of Hungary, Poland and the Emperor. There are numerous records of these heavy knights stationed in small castles annihilating small bands of Mongol raiders especially in Hungary, Poland and Austria where the k/d was around 10:1 in favour of the knights. The knights were effective as the european war horse breed could actually sprint faster than the Mongolian ponies which had higher endurance, but no shock value.

      There were mostly no pitched battles because European monarchs wisely ignored Carpini's recommendations to change European army doctrines to be more like Mongols in order to fight them. Instead they realised that what Carpini had learned about Mongolian doctrine (split up and raid the countryside, then drive people into cities where you siege them then demand them to become a tributary, or raze, slaughter and make an example of the city) would not work at all in highly developed Western Europe as most of it was too fortified (Hungary only later built as much, when the reign of Béla IV started they were relatively undeveloped).

      Mongols for their part, seeing losses in the thousands for their raiding parties, mostly avoid sieging the castles and withdrew, being unable to send forage parties without being crushed by patrols from small castles behind their lines.

      Frederick II tossed the Mongolian letters demanding his submission into the bin and went on to more important matters like his feud with the Pope. The Mongols were never much of a threat to Europe (despite them trying and failing to invade more than once).

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        You're spreading nonsense cope myths. Batu Khan never actually went back to Mongolia, the Mongolian leaders of what would become the Golden West never left the West and in fact more royalty and armies from Mongolia were repeatedly sent West with the explicit goal of conquering Europe, as Mongolian records show.

        In particular after many of Ögedei's relatives died in Europe. He sent
        Güyük and Kadan back with the explicit command to conquer Poland and Hungary, they failed. They were forced to retreat because their raiding parties kept getting butchered. Even the retreat in the second Hungarian campaign wasn't orderly it was butchered on the way out and took no loot.

        Again, Mongol records show the goal was conquest not just looting. They lost. They kept trying for a century and kept losing.

        >They only left because of the Kurultai back in Mongolia, the selection of the next Khan
        Nonsense myth. They literally never left, see [...]. There was never a single point in time when the supreme Mongol commander of the Mongol forces in Europe left. In fact as the Mongol generals kept dying they kept being reinforced by new members of Genghis' family for a century. They had explicit orders on record to _conquer_ Poland and Hungary, not just raid it.

        As a testament to how badly they failed there are more Mongol weapons artifacts in German museums alone today than there are in all of Mongolia lol.

        How did the idea that the mongols were at the brink of taking over the entirety of europe get started, to the point of dominating pop history and even getting matter-of-fact agreed to by academics?
        All you ever read is how the kurultaj was a miraculously timed accident that saved muh EVROPA.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          It's to make China and other lesser civs feel better for being conquered and raped by them. That's literally it.

          The fact is they were simply less developed.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Why are Norwegians such castlelets?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Because Scandis are irrelevant borderland sheepfarmers.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >citation needed
    >citation needed
    >misspellings
    wew

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    im confused by this thread, mongols did conquer poland?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      No they didn't, but ricedicks want you to believe they did.

      They did try (and fail) though. Ögedei Khan explicitly ordered its conquest. Batu Khan also sent demands as far as the HRE to demand it becomes a tributary.

      But they lost and failed to conquer anything. Revisionist historians spent the last few decades since WW2 trying to spin this loss into a win ("but they escape with some loot from villages!" etc.)

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >but ricedicks
        I don't think mongolboos even are orientals, I think they're mostly edgelords too cowardly to be wehraboos or even another brand of europhile and thirdies desperate to stick it to whitey (point out hungary and poland were weak among european powers at the time and they lose it)

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