Moving from neovim

I'll play with vim (preferably extensionless) instead of using neovim as an IDE. Instead, I want to try to integrate the utils, relying on a terminal buffer (or by executing shell commands with snippets on the editors buffers).

Share tips and tricks for this setup IQfy.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    bram is dead learn emac or de-plugin neovim

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is no reason afaik to use neovim either, at least in the current situation. Might as well just use vim just because.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's still being updated by Christian Brabandt

        This. The more I use neovim the more I think it's wrong. Yes, neovim is "better" with more "features" but all this complexity doesn't feel right.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You can just not use any plug ins and the experience will still be better than a plugin-free vim.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I admit the default neovim configuration is much better than vim's. But a fricking fork and all this effort for a default vimrc?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not just a better default config, it has several quality of life features that simply don't exist in vim.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Mind saying which?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Off the top of my head, incremental search highlighting and a proper cursor.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I assume those would be the same (that yoyu would need treesitter for incremental highlighting).

            I wonder what are the cursor changes.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >yoyu would need treesitter for incremental highlighting
            It doesn't, it's built into Neovim.

            >I wonder what are the cursor changes.
            By default on graphical terminals, it's a block cursor in normal mode, a bar in insert mode and an underscore in o-pend mode. In Vim, the cursor is just the terminal's cursor and it's impossible to get it to change by mode reliably.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            honestly the cursor is the only major difference i can think of off the top of my head
            t. only really used vanilla vim for editing config files on a server

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            honestly the cursor is the only major difference i can think of off the top of my head
            t. only really used vanilla vim for editing config files on a server

            >By default on graphical terminals, it's a block cursor in normal mode, a bar in insert mode and an underscore in o-pend mode. In Vim, the cursor is just the terminal's cursor and it's impossible to get it to change by mode reliably
            Lol literally this is what I changed back to default when I tried neovim. I prefer the default terminal cursor and no blinking. So this cursor thing doesn't seem like a benefit to me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The blinking can be adjusted with a setting (I hate the blinking so I have it turned off). The cursor shape is a good, unintrusive visual indicator of mode right where your attention is focused.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The blinking can be adjusted with a setting (I hate the blinking so I have it turned off). The cursor shape is a good, unintrusive visual indicator of mode right where your attention is focused
            Ok, I will give it a try but I doubt I will like it, it's one more distraction because it's another thing changing that carries information.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You don't have to try it if you don't want to, I'm just saying that I like it and it feels like an immediate downgrade whenever I open Vim and I have to move my eyes away from what I'm doing to check what mode I'm in, particularly for the operator pending mode. Same for the incremental highlighting and using lua for configuration. Neovim is just a better experience out of the box with or without plugins.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, I just try to explain what's my pov which may be wrong. So I like vim and it's been my editor for everything for everything. So when I try neovim I revert everything different to vim back to behaving like vim and then I bring the new plugin stuff that neovim is supposed to be good at to neovim. Every time I get disappointed with this experience. Now it's the 3rd time I try this and I hope it sticks.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It doesn't, it's built into Neovim.
            No. It still uses tree-sitter.
            In Arch it literally pulls tree-sitter as a dependency.
            If you are building from source, you can have cmake bundle the library with the build, but it's still a dependency.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Easy one is multithreading. neovim already blows vim's bussy on the back of that feature alone.

            Also learn emacs.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >emacs
            Vscode is the emacs of 2024. Guido thinks so too.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You can just not use any plug ins and the experience will still be better than a plugin-free vim.

          The bigger issue is that you need cmake and like 10 libraries to build neovim
          With vim it's just ./configure && make && make install

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's still being updated by Christian Brabandt

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >de-plugin neovim
      Then what's the point of neovim?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Vim but better.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly, just use VSCode and forget about it. Or some intellij ide. Or maybe emacs for some things With Vim/nvim you're just making your life harder and missing out on useful stuff just because of the minimalist meme. I get the appeal, but it's not worth it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >minimalist mem
      Neovim is not minimalist. Vim had a minimalist culture and less is more. Neovim is the anti-vi and anti-vim.
      When I started learning vim it had a real use case. The alternative where the big ides that took minutes to start. Vim was fast and everywhere and had features that where minimal and working out of the box (not the case for neovim) that where viable alternatives to ides. Neovim otoh is just replicating ides and vscode, not offering alternatives.

      But now there is vscode. And honestly it does an amazing job at being both an ide and an editor. The environment that vim flourished no longer exists for neovim. And the choices in neovim are wrong.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I tried vscode, but the lack of vim emulation outside of the editor window destroys a bit my workflow.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      2 instances of intellij eat 6gb of ram.
      how about you go frick yourself?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        at least it's not visual studio
        One instance of VS eats 6 GBs on large solutions.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically a vim renaissance is coming. The tech streamers and twitch bros are jumping ship from neovim to vscode, neovim soon will be an unmaintained hodge podge of lua plugins. Vim will still be vim.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Turns out what I don't like about vscode are the distractions and things popping into view, things going in the background, suggestions to change things and so on. With vim I'm a happy grug, I press key, something happens, press key again, exact same things happens again. Turns out neovim when I make it behave like neovimmers say I do has the same distractions as vscode. So I'm back at vim. Maybe neovim is good, I don't know, but it's not for me. When I want a real ide I will use a real ide or vscode and not rice neovim.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/eUDIP2L.png

      I'll play with vim (preferably extensionless) instead of using neovim as an IDE. Instead, I want to try to integrate the utils, relying on a terminal buffer (or by executing shell commands with snippets on the editors buffers).

      Share tips and tricks for this setup IQfy.

      >minimalist mem
      Neovim is not minimalist. Vim had a minimalist culture and less is more. Neovim is the anti-vi and anti-vim.
      When I started learning vim it had a real use case. The alternative where the big ides that took minutes to start. Vim was fast and everywhere and had features that where minimal and working out of the box (not the case for neovim) that where viable alternatives to ides. Neovim otoh is just replicating ides and vscode, not offering alternatives.

      But now there is vscode. And honestly it does an amazing job at being both an ide and an editor. The environment that vim flourished no longer exists for neovim. And the choices in neovim are wrong.

      >de-plugin neovim
      Then what's the point of neovim?

      what the frick are you talking about? neovim behaves almost the same like vim. maybe stop using zoomer homosexual configs with 100+ plugins and just look at neovim at something it is -- a vim refactoring project that also supports lua stuff
      the only neovim-exclusive thing i have in my config is `unception` plugin

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The average neovim config doesnt behave at all like regular vim.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          aside from cosmetic tweaks and disabled lineskip, how? also some features are missing or different, that is true

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They tend to have all tools embedded on neovim instead of relying on the system utils.

            E.g. live file fuzz finding, snippets, custom file explorer, etc.

            I think the idea of having system tools that can convert sequence and piping it to stdin/stdout and etc a more powerful and extendable workflow.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            sounds like im blissfully unaware of stuff you are talking about

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            See this video of Russ Cox talking about what makes acme text editor great:

            .

            You can do the same with vim basically, and that is what I wanted to achieve.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    get familar with these:

    - : find
    - : vim
    - :cw
    - :cdo
    - :vs and <c-w>h/l
    - :norm
    - :g/pattern/command
    - <c-n> code completion (also look into omni completion)
    - <c-]>
    - ctags

    then you will have practically a modern ide, with only 2 things lacking: debugger and intellisense. omni completion is good enough for intellisense.
    you will be omnipotent on any system which comes with vim. no plugins required

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Honestly these. This never stops being true. Use emacs, intellij, vscode, whatever you want, go nuts in automation, but for vi(m) the rule is always to keep it simple, this is the benefit of vi(m). If you keep adding plugins and customizations you lost the benefit of vi(m) and your setup is no where near as good as the one thr ides offer.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        okay it's simple, then what? why would I use shitty vim instead of getting a plugin that gives me vim keybindings but also all the modern good refractoring and intelisense stuff?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >okay it's simple, then what? why would I use shitty vim instead of getting a plugin that gives me vim keybindings but also all the modern good refractoring and intelisense stuff?
          You should but it's not a "plugin", it's called "use a real ide that was designed for this purpose from the beginning".

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >treesitter
    >lsp
    Isn't this a huge security risk? Neovim is downloading source code, compiles and runs it, or downloads lsp binaries and runs them without any kind of sandboxing. And everyone seems ok with it. Also the lua plugins have gotten extreme bloated and they also do whatever they want, no sandboxing, no reviews. This seems like a security disaster waiting to happen because unlike vscode (which at least has the do you trust this folder?) there is no big organization on top of neovim to ensure that the ecosystem is well maintained and without privacy and security risks.

    Vim at least is minimal and easy to review and the plugins don't do anything crazy.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It doesn't do that unless you specifically configure it to do that. If you're concerned about the process being automated, then don't automate it.
      Manually fetch the source code and review the diffs. Or just don't update from a known good version.

      It's no less a security disaster than any other plugin system. Your choices are to cripple your extension API to /try/ and avoid malicious actors, or you require people to audit and trust the plugins they're running.

      Consider this is true for pretty much anything. How often are you auditing thins like build scripts for open source projects, yet they're just shell scripts that can invoke anything on your machine.
      VSCode makes you trust a folder but this doesn't apply to anything in their extensions, you're still just executing someone's script on your machine with your user's privileges.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >VSCode
    (You) mean vscodium right?

    ...right?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine using vscopium.

      If you want a foss version, use code - oss.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i'll check it out

  8. 3 weeks ago
    contrarian hipster

    >i won't use modern plugins that require 2 instead of 10 keystrokes for mundane shit and preview queries or changes between applying them to files aaah i'm contraaaaaaring

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Who are you quoting?

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    op you are describing the workflow for Kakoune and it's actually designed for it, unlike vim

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ah yes, there's that, but the tradeoff is the poorly implemented keybind system. It jams the normal and visual mode commands into a single layer so you're stuck holding down the alt key half the time.

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