Problem of evil

It's incomprehensible how Christcucks can't understand how clearly contradictory holding the belief that evil exists and that an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God simultaneously is.
>muh free will
Is there free will in Heaven? If not, then free will isn't a valid excuse, and if there is, then this world is completely unnecessary and creating it is evil. Furthermore, an all-powerful God should be able to make a world in which all beings have free will but still choose to do good out of their own volition. There's nothing inherently illogical with that possibility.
>muh soul-building
God could've created us in our finalized state, no suffering required.

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Radiochan

    define evil

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It is you who believe in evil. I don't have to define shit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Radiochan

        yes you do if you have a problem with it
        so define it

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I define "evil" in this case as whatever the Bible says it is. Thanks for making me have to say the same thing again for your Christcuck mind.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            I'm not a Christian, and the BIble says why it's there: because of the Fall of Man.
            Why do you seethe so?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And the fall of man is completely unnecessary, as can be seen with the example of Heaven I gave in the OP.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            it's not Biblical, however, it's something from the perspective of a 21st century edgy teen

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Elaborate.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            The Bible is very clear that all of Creation is meant to magnify the glory of God and Man, who is made in God's image, should choose to worship God. Humans, who ate of the Fruit, fell from grace.
            >whatabout omniscience
            Doesn't matter! This is what God decided.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I could care less about how the book tries to reconcile the obvious issues with holding the two beliefs I pointed out, especially when its attempts don't solve anything.
            >god does what he wants
            The work says that God is kind in all his doings and is love. Remember this as you reread the OP.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why does God need his glory magnified? Are there other gods with other creations and he’s trying to show them up with his creation?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            Because He demands it. That's the only reason He needs.

            They are if you actually bothered to read the text, and if you actually thought about it for more than a minute. I already showed how in the OP, but you've been ignoring it since your "define evil"-gotcha failed.

            No you didn't, since they're not contradictions at all. You just don't like hearing about it since, as it turns out, humans are not the most important thing in the universe, and conflicting groups of humans always think God is on their side anyhow.
            You still haven't defined evil, btw.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are contradictions. Read the OP, dude. Why do I need to define evil when we're talking about what the Bible tells of it? Anyways, this guy made an attempt:

            That which goes against the will of God.
            Simple and biblical

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            How? I already explained how they weren't contradictions.
            You need to define evil because it's always "stuff I don't like" and not "is this consistent with the Biblical God and the myths of the Book of Genesis?"

            That which goes against the will of God.
            Simple and biblical

            People who make threads like this generally don't care.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >They are contradictions.
            Omnipotence invalidates contradiction.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm not a Christian
            Why not?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            I have absolutely no reason to believe in any of it.

            I could care less about how the book tries to reconcile the obvious issues with holding the two beliefs I pointed out, especially when its attempts don't solve anything.
            >god does what he wants
            The work says that God is kind in all his doings and is love. Remember this as you reread the OP.

            If you don't care about what the book actually says don't b***h about it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Bitching about it as in pointing out the obvious contradictions in its tenets that it does a poor job at explaining away? Sure, I'll stop just for you.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God is not the cosmos.

            The word that is translated as "create" in genesis, is more accurately translated as "form" or "shape". God forms the heavens and the earth through definition, not materialization. You are confusing the cosmos with God.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is about the problem of evil, not the topic of creatio ex nihilo.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >evil
            Evil is a privation.
            It is not appropriate to blame a farmer for a famine. The farmer grows crops. He does not create famine. Famine is the consequence of the lack of a farmer.

            The reason the discussion about "creation" is important, is because the OP is upset that evil exists. It's like being upset with a light bulb, because there is a shadow in the corner of the room. Without God, all that there would be, is evil. God did not form the chaos of the cosmos. God forms the order of the cosmos.

            His first act was to declare light as good.
            This is simply a definition of something that exists in the cosmos, and a judgment being given to the defined object.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Does God have the ability to make there be no evil?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. But this is not a very impressive prestidigitation. I have met many people in my life who have the ability to make evil dissapear. It's called living in denial. Although it's possible, It's a bad idea, which is why we don't don't do it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >admits God is a metaphor for cope
            christcucked

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Just because God can do a simple prestidigitation, that does not show you the limit of his power. You asked me if he could do something, and I said he could. It's not my fault that your requested miracle was just some silly parlor trick that anyone can do. When I showed you that your requested miracle isn't really that hard to accomplish, you got confused, and thought that the miracle you wanted to see was the limit of God's power. Maybe you should ask a better question, if you want an impressive answer.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >privation
            Privation theory of evil does not help solve the problem of evil. It's a silly distraction, doesn't matter if evil doesn't exist.
            It's about God wanting for there to not be such a thing as sodomy and wizards. Yet there are sodomy and wizards, despite God having the superpower to always get what he wants.
            That's the contradiction. Doesn't want thing -> thing exist/happens -> always gets what he wants -> ???

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >always gets what he wants
            If God did this, he wouldn't be omnibenevolent. He is omnipotent, but you think your ability to sacrifice is greater? You have the power to sacrifice, but he doesn't?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If God did this, he wouldn't be omnibenevolent
            You found the contradiction. Congratulations.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not a contradiction.
            God does not always get what he "wants".
            He has the power to always get what he wants, but he sacrifices as an act of love, and chooses not to always get what he wants. It's possible to want chocolate, and have the ability to eat chocolate, but choose not to eat chocolate for some other reason besides what some Anon on IQfy has defined as the word "want".

            This is a limit of your human language, not a limit of God. You need a broader definition of "want".

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Look, if I want to eat chocolate, but also want to not get fat.
            That's two conflicting desires. Because I don't have the power to both eat chocolate and stay slim.

            God's not limited like that, God can eat all the chocolate he wants without getting fat.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >God's not limited like that, God can eat all the chocolate he wants without getting fat.
            What if you want God to get fat? In his infinate mercy, will God allow himself to get fat for your sake, even though it's not what he wants? Does God have the ability to sacrifice? Or are you more capable than God? Does God have the ability to create free will?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Radiochan

            They're not contradictions at all if you actually bothered to read the text.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are if you actually bothered to read the text, and if you actually thought about it for more than a minute. I already showed how in the OP, but you've been ignoring it since your "define evil"-gotcha failed.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It is you who believe in evil. I don't have to define shit.
        Typical Dillahunty Dodge

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >But if anon had said he doesn't believe in objective evil this chucklefricker would be running around the thread screaming about muh relative atheists
          There's no way to get you homosexuals to shut the frick up, you have some moronic cope for every basic fact about reality to the point where you eclipse schizophrenics.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >God and evil cannot coexist
            >refuses to define evil

            You realize this is necessary for the argument to succeed, right?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Make claims about evil
            >People use your definition
            >"NOOOOO YOU CANT DO THAT"
            You're moronic.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm asking for the definition. Lol.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whatever the Bible says.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can't explain it yourself? You probably have no idea what the Bible says.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You should ask your mother why she was such a a prostitute when she was younger.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That which goes against the will of God.
            Simple and biblical

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He's right though. The problem of evil is an internal critique, it uses the same definition of evil as the form of theism that it's attempting to attack.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Doing things to others that you would not do to yourself. The literal opposite of the golden rule.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think we also have to define Good first.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      as weirdly as it is, it’s the lack of acknowledgment of intrinsic worth of an entity

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        thus good is to acknowledge the intrinsic worth of something

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I would say goodness is the combination of what is true, beautiful, and generative.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            imagine if a population of litteral mud covered scarred goblin could produce masterpieces unfathomable to human’s mind. How would you react to this kind of encounter?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't have to God has his own standard of evil and he hates it but he also made it anyways. Why?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's paradoxical. We have free will and don't, God made all that exists and did not make evil.
        We don't understand and won't be able to in this plain of existence. A real centrist buzz kill of a statement, I know.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Let's assume God exists and define evil as whatever he doesn't like. Why would that exist if God is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-loving?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Radiochan

        Because you're projecting 21st century Western ideas onto what ancient israelites would have perceived it as.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >an all-powerful God should be able to make a world in which all beings have free will but still choose to do good out of their own volition
    our world

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      False. Many still choose to do evil out of their own volition.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >moving the goalposts
        >nirvana fallacy

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I noticed that I forgot to add the word "only" before "do good", sorry about that. Also, how is it a nirvana fallacy to expect an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God to do a better job?

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because life isn't about the mitigation of suffering. It's a nice side perk of there being good in the world, but as I grow older, I've become increasingly convinced that the point of mortal life is to learn or develop something in your soul that you bring with you into eternity. I don't know what that something is, but God thinks it's worth the suffering of life to develop in us. But because atheists can only think in terms of the mortal life, they miss out on that long perspective.

    There is a bigger picture than maximizing pleasure in our earthly life. When you develop that something in your soul, you make creation better overall - better than it would have been if we were all mindless puppets without free will. That something might be 'love' or a superset of love.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do you imagine the necessary being to be anthropomorphic? No wonder all the great thinkers were deists.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >God could've created us in our finalized state
    why?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WHY NOT???

      God wants for no-one to perish.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >It's incomprehensible how Christcucks can't understand how clearly contradictory holding the belief that evil exists and that an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God simultaneously is.

    There is no contradiction.
    God's omnipotence invalidates the idea that there is a "problem of evil" in the first place, as any human perceived "contradiction" is just an illusion precipitated by humanity's limitations when trying to comprehend God's ability to brute force through contradiction and create a universe where He can legitimately pick all three choices in a "you can only pick two" scenario.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God's take on evil is subjective and prone to personal bias. Religious scripture implies character rather than force of nature.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >God's take on evil is subjective and prone to personal bias. Religious scripture implies character rather than force of nature.
        Except God is literally a force of nature. God's will cannot be subjective when it determines objective reality.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >God can do anything so he can not prevent evil while being all good
      Oh, so we can just make bullshit up to justify propositions? Satan is so powerful that he is also omnibenevolent despite deliberately effecting evil. If you don’t comprehend this fact, it’s because you’re deceived by your limited intellect.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Oh, so we can just make bullshit up to justify propositions? Satan is so powerful that he is also omnibenevolent despite deliberately effecting evil
        No, because Christianity does not claim that Satan is omnipotent. Try to stay focused and don't let your butt hurt over God send you off on wild tangents.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The perfect sign of a moron is saying a lot where little is required
      >Why God make evil
      >It's a mystery human minds cannot understand

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If it's an incomprehensible mystery then you have no way you're knowing you're right. Arguments from acatalepsy are basically self-defeating.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How would we know what goodness is without evil? How do you define these things? I am glad there is conflict and things to solve in the world, rather than everyone act like robots and be an assembly line of nothingness. The way Gnostics want the world is devoid of anything substantial. They want 1984 basically.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You would define it the same way you define Uranium without having anti-uranium you fricking idiot. People were just fine defining matter before they ever even knew that Anti-matter was a possibility. Every animal that uses this argument is too stupid to understand basic common sense and assumes that evil and good are somehow tied together in some dualistic sense when Christianity is against dualism in all forms.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Before the law, there was no way to define what is good or evil. Tribes ruled by might makes right. You want to go back to that?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes there was, those same tribes had taboos and things they would kill and exile you for, people in pre-christian, pre-monotheist cultures had definitions for what they considered evil and good. You are a dumb monkey homosexual with shit arguments, have a nice day for impersonating human intelligence.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You all but admit you want to go back to might makes right. Lol simpleton.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You will not convince anyone you're not a homosexual by continuing to gargle cum through a literary medium.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ironic since you swallow Odin's cum. Enjoy that.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You don't cuck to my stupid cuckoldry? You must cuck to some other stupid cuckoldry
            Your mother should have her c**t stuffed with cement for cursing us with you.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ah, so, you're a typical nihilist loser who has no idea what he believes. Gotcha.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >N-N-NOOOOO YOU'RE THE LOSER BECAUSE YOU DONT BASE YOUR ENTIRE WORLDVIEW AROUND FAIRY TALES!!!!
            Grow up you pathetic homosexual. Believe in reality you fricking clown.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can't doubt the geography, the empires, the history, and wisdom in the Bible no matter how much you kick and squeal. Our laws and systems of government are based on it whether you like it or not. You have no argument for this other than "well pagan tribes that condone things like cannibalism and ritual sacrifice didn't have laws!". You are clueless, stop wasting my time.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I can doubt all of that just like I doubt the stupid shit in the Vedas. Grow up dumbass, find reality and move away from desert delusions.

            Also our laws and systems were born specifically to remove all christcucks influence from our ruling class. Every country that hasn't done this is an abject shithole God himself as depicted in the Bible would render into dust.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I doubt recorded history because... I JUST DO OKAY?
            Go move to a Muslim country then, moron. You can't show me a system that has achieved more for mankind than Christianity.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'd say the same, move to Latin America and proclaim the glory of your Christian societies.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Just because a country or its leaders claim to be Christian, doesn't mean they are, as in the case of Latin America. You still can't show me a system that has achieved more for mankind than Christianity. You lose. Enjoy your Muslim shithole.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That is my exact point, our entire western society is built around denying Christianity in its governance, you acknowledge this, and yet you keep making arguments for the success of western society as if cucking to the Israelite God is what created that prosperity. You're typing on a keyboard that wasn't discovered through praying to fairy tales for a reason you dumb loser homosexual.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Being Christian is what led us to govern the world. The resulting wars, infighting, and decay we are seeing now is the result of the israelites and Freemasons who have infiltrated it. And yet, I am typing on a keyboard that was made possible by living in a Christian Western country. I am free to question my government which was founded on the Bible and Jesus Christ. You don't like this and would rather we all live in Maoist China or under Sharia Law. Go to those countries then, be my guest.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Being Christian is what led to...
            >Just because a country or it's leaders claim to be Christian doesn't mean they are
            What a pathetic homosexual you are. Hope you have fun lying your way out of hell if your dumbass Demon actually exists.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Those statements don't oppose each other. Christian nations thrived under leaders who were devout, and faltered under ones who weren't. It isn't a static thing. What we've established is: you can't negate any of Jesus' teachings which made us, specifically the US, the most prosperous nation on Earth, and because Christianity has been infiltrated that negates the progress so far. You are moronic. Enjoy that.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Uh here's why 2+2 actually equals 5!!! You see....
            They're mutually exclusive, your pilpul is weak and you're a moron. I'm not reading a single thing you post after this, you're a dumbass.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You don't have an argument so you spew vitriol. Typical nihilist loser lol.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I had many arguments, you got BTFO in each one. Your entire existence is an act of vitriolic insult against humanity, I merely respond in kind, and to nobody's surprise you're too much of a pussy b***h to handle the response your blatant stupidity deserves.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I thought you weren't reading anything else I posted? You are so desperate lmao.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm responding entirely to the first sentence, you wouldn't be able to realize that because you're moronic and all.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hence you read what I posted despite saying you wouldn't. You are a joke, you know that? Absolute buffoon. Stay off the Internet, kid.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh no! I went against my own statement! What a tragedy!

            Anyway you monkey b***h, I'll do whatever I like, you can do whatever your israeli God tells you to.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem is. A perfect God doesn't need to create a world he knows will have stuff he doesn't want in it.
    The totality of reality is already PERFECT

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It’s honestly dumbfounding that Christisraelites can’t understand this, and that “it’s a mystery” suffices for the ones that do

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God allows evil to happen for the greater good. Also God wants us to crucify the flesh and wants to have us suffer for Him.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What is the greater good? It can't be Heaven since then he'd just make us there.

      The problem is. A perfect God doesn't need to create a world he knows will have stuff he doesn't want in it.
      The totality of reality is already PERFECT

      >So how do theists respond to [the problem of evil]? They say there is a reason for evil, but it is a mystery. Well, let me tell you this: I'm actually one hundred feet tall even though I only appear to be six feet tall. You ask me for proof of this. I have a simple answer: it's a mystery. Just accept my word for it on faith. And that's just the logic theists use in their discussions of evil.
      -Quentin Smith

      >It's incomprehensible how Christcucks can't understand how clearly contradictory holding the belief that evil exists and that an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God simultaneously is.

      There is no contradiction.
      God's omnipotence invalidates the idea that there is a "problem of evil" in the first place, as any human perceived "contradiction" is just an illusion precipitated by humanity's limitations when trying to comprehend God's ability to brute force through contradiction and create a universe where He can legitimately pick all three choices in a "you can only pick two" scenario.

      Why does God let there be such an illusion?

      • 2 weeks ago
        The 22nd Poster in This Thread

        Some might say it's a mystery but I think we can use logic and mathematics to definitively answer it.

        This thread is full of discussion about definitions so let's make our terms bery clear. The Greek word used in the LXX for "good" is καλός, so let's use κ as the symbol for the value God seeks to increase (or, more properly speaking, for the quantity of that value). We'll define God as the best possible being: the entity with greatest possible ability and desire to increase κ.

        If infinities could exist, the best possible being would make this fact true:
        κ=∞

        However actual infinities cannot exist; finitism is true and they are self-contradictions. The most we get in a finitist world are potentential infinities. So instead God has to transform that to be about potential infinities. This gets us the notion that God must introduce something else: something that allows for the value to grow from the starting point of 0 and yet not be actually infinite. He needs to create time and add it to the equation. Let's use t to represent time, as is standard practice. So instead of κ=∞, the following equation would be utilized:

        lim(t -> ∞) κ(t) = ∞
        (Sorry for the unusual format, IQfy doesn't like limits)

        This is the minimum that ensures it is a guaranteed potential infinity.

        What that means is God ensures that as the quantity of time increases, the quantity of κ increases. Doing more than that needed to ensure the truth of that mathematical limit leads to an actual infinity and so isn't possible, doing less isn't best, and so we see why the best possible being would/could neither do less nor more.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What do you make of the belief in the existence of Heaven, which is a better world according to the Bible?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What a simple way to blow someone the frick out after they spend minutes crafting a dumbass post to cope with.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            >What do you make of the belief in the existence of Heaven, which is a better world according to the Bible?
            I don't think the Bible teaches any such thing at all! As far as I can tell this crept in through Greco-Roman culture contaminating Christian thought over time.

            What the Bible teaches is that death is sleep, and that then at the end we and the world will be resurrected just like Jesus was. The same world like it was Jesus' same body, just revived and empowered.

            Heaven is part of that but the word "heaven" in the Bible is just the normal word for the sky. So of course it'll be resurrected as well, at the end.

            And don't think this is some revisionist interpretation. This is taught by the Apostolic Circle itself. Irenaeus, a student of the Apostle John's own disciple Polycarp (so the closest person to the Apostolic Circle with voluminous writings; we have small letters from others like Polycarp but whole big whopping books from him), teaches this. He says in his work Against Heresies, Book 5, chapter 36 (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103536.htm) that "there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, in which the new man shall remain...Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city...The apostle, too, has confessed that the creation shall be free from the bondage of corruption, [so as to pass] into the liberty..." and he says this is the fulfillment of the "promise of the inheritance of the earth to the patriarchs".

            So it's not a better world - it's this world!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Could God have made us in that finalized state without going through all this (see Revelation 21:3-4)?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            yes but it wouldnt be you. there are a set number of children he could bring into heaven without repeating or having them go psychotic. you are one of his children who needed a little time and space (ignorance and limitations) so that you could healthily be brought into eternal existence

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Could he have created me in that finalized state without suffering?

            [...]

            He quite clearly hasn't since we're still stuck in this world and not the future resurrected one - what other Christians would call Heaven.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            yea but that wouldnt be you? and even thru all your bullshit he still thinks your worth it? he could have forsaken suffering by never having any children that would ever make a mistake but there are kids that could get to a loving eternal place with him but would make mistakes along the way and he says your worth it

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So if God puts me through the process of life - disease, misery, this thread - and I end in the finalized state, that is me. But if he instantly makes me the finalized state, that's not still me? That makes no sense.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            imagine you have 2 ideas in your head. they are the same final product but production methods are different. when i actualize one (even tho they are the same final product) i am still without the second and god says the extra effort and suffering is worth it to bring you into existence as you were meant to be for eternity in the mind of god.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            >He quite clearly hasn't since we're still stuck in this world and not the future resurrected on
            That's because that original state had to change when evil came into the world. It's like Romans 5:12 says: "sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin".

            And there's a very good reason. Evil, if allowed to grow, eventually makes it so that good ceases to grow. It's like Jesus said: "a corrupt tree cannot bear good fruit".

            But the original state was one of total permanence and deathlessness. But once evil was in it, you had something that needed to be destroyed.

            Hence death and decay, as Paul says. Current processes 100% guarantee the destruction of evil; as time goes on every star will burn out and every molecular bond break as things decay more and more. Then the resurrection comes and re-adds all the good that was destroyed.

            So the mathematical limit holds true: good keeps increasing despite the need for thorough destruction in the world. It's a very elegant solution, really.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So the future world will be better. God could've made it in that finalized state, none of this evil going on required.

            imagine you have 2 ideas in your head. they are the same final product but production methods are different. when i actualize one (even tho they are the same final product) i am still without the second and god says the extra effort and suffering is worth it to bring you into existence as you were meant to be for eternity in the mind of god.

            Elaborate.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            >God could've made it in that finalized state, none of this evil going on required.
            He did, the future world will be what Eden was, just with all the good we've made since then added to it as well. You're very right that evil isn't required, we added it to the world and that triggered the decay protocol to remove it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well as is stated in Revelation 21:3-4, there'll be none of that in the future, so God has not created the world in its finalized good state.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            >there'll be none of that in the future
            There was none of it at the beginning either though, initially there was no death as Paul said, remember?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I was citing that passage to show that we can exist without evil (and presumably with free will), so as I stated previously in this thread, this is completely unnecessary.

            im saying its all your fault. all this evil and suffering of this world were needed so god could bring you into existence without you trying to have a nice day or someone else due to psychosis or malevolence.

            If I was created in my finalized state in the perfect world to come, would I try to kill myself? If so, why wouldn't I if I had gotten there by the process?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            i mean thats the story of lucifer right? he really does give you free will and with perfect knowledge your capacity for game breaking mistakes becomes real. idk what about your life will give you the strength to endure eternity in a non stagnating way but the reality of truth gives me faith that you will find it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            >I was citing that passage to show that we can exist without evil (and presumably with free will)
            Ah OK now I see what you're getting at. We're told very little about the arrangement of things after the resurrection - Revelation is of course a cryptic book of symbols and riddles (by design!) rather than literal descriptors. There's lots of possibilities.

            My guess would be that we'll do better than the first go-around since we're starting from a much stronger place. Who knows? Maybe we will mess up again eventually and we'll have to have another go-around. And maybe we'll do the same again. Getting better each time since all good keeps getting resurrected, but always messing up.

            But we simply aren't given enough information for a firm conclusion

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            im saying its all your fault. all this evil and suffering of this world were needed so god could bring you into existence without you trying to have a nice day or someone else due to psychosis or malevolence.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The state of the world creates that possibility far more than any other course of action. Babies come into this world screaming and crying for a reason.

          • 2 weeks ago
            The 22nd Poster in This Thread

            That's exactly what he did! It's just the restoration of Eden really. It's re-creation, but this time with add the good added during the first go-around added back in. (Like one good thing your parents added to the world for instance - you!)

            It's like 1 Corinthians 15 says: "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him".

            So it's the repair and reversal of what happened with Adam, restoring the original world of deathlessness!

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Well, let me tell you this: I'm actually one hundred feet tall even though I only appear to be six feet tall. You ask me for proof of this. I have a simple answer: it's a mystery. Just accept my word for it on faith.

        What's with anti-Christians framing arguments from the position where they're the equal of God?

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Total Christian victory!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Pic with devil horns
      I wonder how long you're gonna burn for that one.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >he's still replying

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      .

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Christians will boil in excrement in sheol

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shalom!

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Dionysus-Priopos

    THERE IS ONLY ONE EVIL. WILLFUL IGNORANCE. deny truth or existence at your own risk

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are we basically in a sandbox video game with God as the player? That’s what it sounds like to me when I hear that God is all powerful but let’s us have free will.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No. In a sandbox video game you'd stand a chance as an obstacle and the player would be very obvious. This is playing a City/World Sim where the player is a moronic child who uses cheats but not to your benefit.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Furthermore, an all-powerful God should be able to make a world in which all beings have free will but still choose to do good out of their own volition. There's nothing inherently illogical with that possibility.
    Those are literally opposites so yeah that is illogical. You might as well as ask why God can’t make 1 = 2.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Are you saying there's no free will in Heaven? Also, how is it illogical? There is a possibility that everyone does good all the time. It is very small, but God can foresee the future.

      i mean thats the story of lucifer right? he really does give you free will and with perfect knowledge your capacity for game breaking mistakes becomes real. idk what about your life will give you the strength to endure eternity in a non stagnating way but the reality of truth gives me faith that you will find it.

      I don't think you understood what I wrote.

      Why is evil a problem? And who is defining it?

      Because it's a contradiction (as pointed out in the OP) and the Bible's defining it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The problem here is that you're taking a book of the desert as an authority on morals.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because I'm showing that this book is contradictory maybe? Read the OP, dude.

          no i do. in your finalized state you would still have the capacity to commit seppuku (reject truth) and even with full knowledge of why not you could still fetishize it to the point of self dissolution (lucifer). there are kids who will alwasy choose that route but the hope is that with this little bit of time and space it will prepare you to make the right choices

          So even in my finalized state reached via the process this'll be an issue? Will evil continue even in Heaven? That's exactly what the text says won't happen: Revelation 21:3-4 and Romans 6:23. See also Revelation 21:27.

          >There is a possibility that everyone does good all the time.
          No there isn’t. If choosing to do evil is not a choice, it’s not free will. You can have both evil and free will or neither, but not one or the other.

          So God doesn't know the future?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I did, it was a prologue to introduce my ideas, see

            https://i.imgur.com/EX2yKFV.jpg

            Premise: hell vs Heaven.
            Heaven is an inmaterial reward for Inmaterial beings.
            Hell is an inmaterial punishment for inmaterial beings.
            It thus follows that hell is painless because a law that allows for physical pain in the pleasure realm could potentially ruin eternal paradise for a customer.
            Rumiate it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            i mean yea? god is eternal and will eternally take part in creation. god has faith you can reach a point where you dont choose evil not because your incapable but because you dont want to. once you get to that point im sure there is a heaven for other perected beings like yourself

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The problem here is that you're taking a book of the desert as an authority on morals.
          Why is that a problem?
          Is there some innate scientific quality of that biome that precludes the determination of morality?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes? Because a spiritual realm must have law same way as a spiritual one does.
            I have seen negative or malus incurred from being morally upright and bonus from ill behaviour.
            Thus, the adage flows true, any morally upright person is at disadvantaged position regarding the impious.
            How would this not be a reflection of the spiritual?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes? Because a spiritual realm must have law same way as a spiritual one does.
            Why?
            Furthermore what does this have to do with the desert?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm just explicating, if there's a combat and ne contestant refuses to kill or wound while the other goes full schizogore, who has the advantage?
            This thus is morality, Darkness vs light is a scam to yield you defenseless.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm just explicating, if there's a combat and ne contestant refuses to kill or wound while the other goes full schizogore, who has the advantage?
            The one that's strong.
            Strength does not fear impotence , no matter how "schizogore" the fantasies of the impotent are.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Dionysus-Priopos

        no i do. in your finalized state you would still have the capacity to commit seppuku (reject truth) and even with full knowledge of why not you could still fetishize it to the point of self dissolution (lucifer). there are kids who will alwasy choose that route but the hope is that with this little bit of time and space it will prepare you to make the right choices

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >There is a possibility that everyone does good all the time.
        No there isn’t. If choosing to do evil is not a choice, it’s not free will. You can have both evil and free will or neither, but not one or the other.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why is evil a problem? And who is defining it?

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Premise: hell vs Heaven.
    Heaven is an inmaterial reward for Inmaterial beings.
    Hell is an inmaterial punishment for inmaterial beings.
    It thus follows that hell is painless because a law that allows for physical pain in the pleasure realm could potentially ruin eternal paradise for a customer.
    Rumiate it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This isn't about your interpretation of hell. This is about the evil and the problem thereof.

      >Well, let me tell you this: I'm actually one hundred feet tall even though I only appear to be six feet tall. You ask me for proof of this. I have a simple answer: it's a mystery. Just accept my word for it on faith.

      What's with anti-Christians framing arguments from the position where they're the equal of God?

      What do you mean?

      i mean yea? god is eternal and will eternally take part in creation. god has faith you can reach a point where you dont choose evil not because your incapable but because you dont want to. once you get to that point im sure there is a heaven for other perected beings like yourself

      God could've created me at that point, which I've been arguing for multiple posts now but you somehow can't get through your skull.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There are many problems with the good vs evil and Heaven vs hek or Darkness vs light duotomy.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Dionysus-Priopos

        what is the difference between god creating you with all the memories of this life in heaven and him creating you here to live out these memories on your way to heaven? at this point dude you just sound petulant, no wonder your down here with me

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The difference is that one requires evil and while the other doesn't.

          >What do you mean?
          I mean that in order for the anti-Christian's argument to be valud, we must accept the premise that a man possesses the miraculous ability to actually be one hundred feet tall despite appearing to be 6 feet tall.

          The argument only makes sense if we accept the premise that the person framing it is if not the equal of God, a near peer at absolute minimum.

          You've missed the point of the argument. You can't prove that man can't be "one hundred feet tall despite appearing to be 6 feet tall", because I could always say that it's just a mystery.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You've missed the point of the argument. You can't prove that man can't be "one hundred feet tall despite appearing to be 6 feet tall", because I could always say that it's just a mystery.
            No I didn't miss the point. You are not the equal of God, so you can't just say "it's a mystery" in the same way that people can in reference to God.

            Do you genuinely not see that at it's core the argument fundamentally supposes a state of equivalence between God and the framer? The argument is literally "if God can do that, why can't I? You should treat me the way you treat God. Oh you don't want to treat me like God? Well, then looks like you admit God isn't real! :3..."

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Really though, why can't I be 200 feet tall (metaphysically) without you knowing?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Really though, why can't I be 200 feet tall (metaphysically) without you knowing?
            What does it mean to be "metaphysically 200 feet tall"? I don't understand what exactly a "metaphysical foot" is supposed to be a measurement of.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That I am truly 200 feet tall but that I only appear to be 6 feet tall for anyone observing me.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That I am truly 200 feet tall
            Then you're not metaphysically 200 feet tall, you are physically 200 feet tall.

            >I only appear to be 6 feet tall for anyone observing me.
            Clearly that's not actually true if you're physically 200 feet tall.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It only appears to you that I'm 6 feet tall, but I actually am 200 feet tall - it's a mystery.

            How? I already explained how they weren't contradictions.
            You need to define evil because it's always "stuff I don't like" and not "is this consistent with the Biblical God and the myths of the Book of Genesis?"
            [...]
            People who make threads like this generally don't care.

            No you didn't.

            >They are contradictions.
            Omnipotence invalidates contradiction.

            Is God's omnipotence within logic?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Is God's omnipotence within logic?
            No.
            God is obviously not bound by logic, how could he be omnipotent if he was?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well obviously a logical argument isn't going to matter to a God that can make there be contradictions without worry.

            >It only appears to you that I'm 6 feet tall, but I actually am 200 feet tall - it's a mystery
            Once again, you are insisting that you should be treated in the same way that God is, and that if I refuse to treat you the same as if you are God, then clearly God can't be real.

            Your argument is nonsense.

            You can't prove that I'm not metaphysically 200 feet tall. Suck it up.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It only appears to you that I'm 6 feet tall, but I actually am 200 feet tall - it's a mystery
            Once again, you are insisting that you should be treated in the same way that God is, and that if I refuse to treat you the same as if you are God, then clearly God can't be real.

            Your argument is nonsense.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            you still have the knowledge and experience of evil? what evil are you trying to describe or avoid?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That which occurs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            you would still have to endure the perception of evil big dog. it still would have happened in an eternal sense. dude suffering is not that bad brother, especially when you can derive meaning from it. you sound very feminine b***hing about muh sufferinosss

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not really talking about suffering necessarily. I'm talking about what the Bible deems evil and how this is contradictory with its conception of God. Read the OP.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            what the bible deems evil is the absence of god. what that means is evil is that which causes you to not exist as god is existence. the only evil is willful ignorance and you will always have that capacity ad the capacity endure what it takes to fix those mistakes

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Does God have the ability to include himself in every scenario?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dionysus-Priopos

            the best way its been explained to me is that hes playing in THE experience machine. hes playing as every character possible and all the characters that he fricks with get to get out of the game. that part of him that is us and everything that cn experience is the holy spirit

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >What do you mean?
        I mean that in order for the anti-Christian's argument to be valud, we must accept the premise that a man possesses the miraculous ability to actually be one hundred feet tall despite appearing to be 6 feet tall.

        The argument only makes sense if we accept the premise that the person framing it is if not the equal of God, a near peer at absolute minimum.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Furthermore, an all-powerful God should be able to make a world in which all beings have free will but still choose to do good out of their own volition
    Then it wouldn't be free will then, would it? moron.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes it would be, Christcuck. There's a low probability that everyone does good all the time, isn't there? So there's nothing illogical for that to happen, unless God can't foresee the future.

      the best way its been explained to me is that hes playing in THE experience machine. hes playing as every character possible and all the characters that he fricks with get to get out of the game. that part of him that is us and everything that cn experience is the holy spirit

      That makes no sense.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Dionysus-Priopos

        it makes sense if your trying to have a relationship with an all powerful eternal being. yu havent even tried to use your empathy to something like that have you? your just young

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Everyone freely choose the good.
      The end.

      No contradictions.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    filtered

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God wants for there to be no sorcerers
    God chooses to create a world he knows will have sorcerers in it
    ???

    Like, what's going on here? Why is God being irrational -> acting in a way that doesn't achieve his goals and desires, despite having the superpower to always get what he wants

    There's a simple explanation. God not real

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is another explanation.
      Free will.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Please explain, how free will, explains, why God creates a world he knows will have sorcerer in it, despite wanting for there to be no sorcerers

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