Protty iconoclasts BTFO

Protty iconoclasts BTFO

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the curtain quote
    Delegitimizes all other quotes you just posted

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How so? It was literally transcribed and translated by Jerome at Epiphanius's request.

      >The final section covers the often quoted incident of the curtain, which unlike other passages attributed to Epiphanius and quoted by the Iconoclasts, is accepted as authentic by modern scholars
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphanius_of_Salamis

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It first appeared during the iconoclast controversy

        CAPTCHA: POOP2

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's attested to by Jerome and is the only anti-icon piece of his to be unanimously accepted as genuine, you decided to pick on a quote that appeared before the iconoclast controversy. And even if it wasn't genuine it doesn't affect the rest of the quotes in the slightest.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The others are vague and open-ended, that one is too clear.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The others are vague and open-ended

            Let's see
            >Works of art cannot then be sacred and divine.
            >it is not possible at the same time to know God and to address prayers to images.
            >it is undoubted that there is no religion wherever there is an image
            >I thought it improper that such things ever be exhibited to others, lest we appear, like idol worshippers, to carry our God around in an image
            >do we pray unto them, because through them we pray to God? This is the chief cause of this insane profanity
            >we commend you indeed for your zeal against anything made with hands being an object of adoration

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The others are vague and open-ended, that one is too clear.

          Note that the curtain quote is NOT the entire body of the document from which it comes, but a postscript to a letter that otherwise has literally nothing to do with images and is generally consistent with Epiphanius.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He doesn't mention images in the rest of the letter so he thought images were fine
            Nice logic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's not what I was saying at all, brother. My point was that Epiphanius says this in passing, taking for granted images are forbidden, at the end of an irrelevant letter. The postscript itself isn't even about images, it's about replacing that church's curtain. It's pretty much indefensible to dismiss the letter as a forgery. It's written exactly as it would be if it were authentic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The curtain quote can literally be understood as the curtain not being made properly to church customs
      >St Epiphanius couldn't tell whether it was Christ or a saint (the fact that he uses saint instead of "mere man" implies that images of saints aren't abnormal from his pov)
      >the church itself wasn't built like others, hence him asking what it was and being surprised at it being a church, so the curtains could would likely have been abnormal too.
      >After taking it down, the clergy weren't accusing him of heresy but just asking to give them another (the fact that St Epiphanius was willing to do so just shows it was that certain curtain that was improper)

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's really twisting what it says. He's clearly opposed to human depictions in churches:

        >Seeing this, and being loth that an image of a man should be hung up in Christ's church contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures, I tore it asunder

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        True, it was improper because it had religious images on it.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what's the rebuttal to this?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      a council that nobody recognizes because it had no legitimate head representation from any church

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Huh?
        Niceaea II was beyond legitimate and affirmed all over.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No more than the Ecumenical Counicl of Florence. What is good for the geese is good for the gander and if you accept Nicea II you have to accept Florence.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I do accept Florence

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Proof that Christianity is a false religion. Idolatry is vanity.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >t. stone-licking enthusiast

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But I'm not Muslim or even israeli doe.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Protestantism was literally just Germans trying to turn Christianity into Islam to satisfy their intense, crippling autism.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, the only based bits of Christianity are the elements pagans managed to sneak into it and which Germ*ids tried very hard to remove.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        lol so truu

        tsmt, the God of the Bible is kinda chuddy tbqh.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, the only based bits of Christianity are the elements pagans managed to sneak into it and which Germ*ids tried very hard to remove.

      Calvinism is PEAK doe.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Calvinism is PEAK doe.
    Peak what? Peak crippling autism?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PEAK Morality
      PEAK Architecture
      PEAK Humility
      PEAK Work ethic

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Online Romanists would have rejected the Apostles and their simple house churches and catacombs for muh heckin’ aesthetic demon worshipping temples of Jupiter and Isis

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a fricking shed
    >PEAK Architecture

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/9aJs1fZ.jpeg

      >Calvinism is PEAK doe.
      Peak what? Peak crippling autism?

      >rural church, wood: :/
      >rural church, stone: OH MY HECKIN SAINTS AND MARY YES

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wooden church
      that's a burzum album cover in the making

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Let me guess, you NEED more?

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is this an AI detection thread? Are you bullying the bots because they cannot read the image? Am I filtered by your big-brain double reverse irony post?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >based OP proving no one on IQfy actually reads the post or in this case actually examines the image.

      I wish they were bots but they're actually just that moronic and have zoomzoomadhd

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >christianity

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A lot of them address pretending the Icon/Statue to be an actual entity, instead of an object of mediation through which you channel your thoughts to the Saint.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Second Council of Nicaea does say that the images themselves are holy and dispense blessings to the devotee who venerates them. They aren't just reminders or focusing tools in Catholic/Orthodox theology.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is there a whole compilation in book form of the second council of nicaea? What would you recommend?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There's a translation of selections from the Acts of the Council, all its canons, and related pronouncements l: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.toc.html#P10346_1983930

          There's a more recent full translation but it's very expensive.

          Some extracts from Acts of the first session:

          >And receiving their holy and honourable reliques with all honour (τιμῆς), I salute and venerate these with honour (τιμητικῶς προσκυνέω), hoping to have a share in their holiness. Likewise also the venerable images (εἰκόνας) of the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the humanity he assumed for our salvation; and of our spotless Lady, the holy Mother of God; and of the angels like unto God; and of the holy Apostles, Prophets, Martyrs, and of all the Saints—the sacred images of all these, I salute and venerate

          >Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images.
          >Anathema to those who knowingly communicate with those who revile and dishonour the venerable images.
          >Anathema to those who say that the making of images is a diabolical invention and not a tradition of our holy Fathers.

          >To those who do not diligently teach all the Christ-loving people to venerate and salute the venerable and sacred and honourable images of all the Saints who pleased God in their several generations, anathema! To those who have a doubtful mind and do not confess with their whole hearts that they venerate the sacred images, anathema!

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's pretty based

            Nicaea II pronounces anathema on anyone who DOESN'T enthusiastically worship icons, even if it's out of simple prudence. It's a pure demonic "council", orchestrated by a female empress who murdered her son and mutilated her brothers in law.

            based

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nicaea II pronounces anathema on anyone who DOESN'T enthusiastically worship icons, even if it's out of simple prudence. It's a pure demonic "council", orchestrated by a female empress who murdered her son and mutilated her brothers in law.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >muh church fathers
    >implying autists who lived hundreds of years after Christ and the apostles knew anything more than us present autists now know thousands of years after about the nature of God
    Lol, lmao even. Also if you actually read these quotes it seems these randos are more in support of iconoclasm than against it if anything.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >St Augustine experiencing God through meditation, contemplation, fasting, and constant prayer
    It really sucks that you guys are so focused on icons, there's a lot more to it than that
    >The Church knowing that most people will never reach that level, that the Church is growing in new people who are receptive to God in different ways, and that normal people have a hard time maintaining their faith at all
    Yeah sure as long as icons are used to serve the One True God, that's fine

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Yeah sure as long as icons are used to serve the One True God, that's fine
      That’s not what Nicea II said, it didn’t say icons are a development to help people who are receptive to faith only in material sense.
      It said “we’ve always worship icons, their is no war in Ba Sing Se, if you don’t kiss them and like it then you are hell bound. Only those who love icons can go to heaven”.
      So Please stop.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Church fathers are mortal humans and not God

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God: Make angels for the ark, make angel embroidery for the tabernacle, make a brass snake and look at it to be healed, etc.
      Trying to argue that we cant have any image is fake news.

      Yet generations later the people started worshipping the brass snake as an idol so the King had it destroyed.
      So, the issue is not having an image, the issue is worshipping it as a deity.

      Nowadays no one worships statues as deities, everyone knows they are just pointers to the heavenly realities.
      The issue of thinking the statue itself is a god is an ancient superstitious error of archaic societies that Christians dont suffer from.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When was there any instruction to direct prayers to any of those?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >God:
        If God commands you to do it then you do it. God has no command you to make statues of Mary and Jesus.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    With the possible lone exception of the Church of the East, all of the other historic churches established during late antiquity, such as the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches, have lost the plot regarding images. It is quite common within Protestantism to have religious imagery in the church building, as well.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Church of the East doesn't have images to not offend their Muslamic overlords.
      They were adorned with sacred images and paintings before the middle ages.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's what I've read about them, too, but I assume that a few people in that denomination have some problems with images being erected at places of worship from a deeper, theological level.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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