So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization in the west were actually white people ruling over an Arab and Berber underclass?

So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization in the west were actually white people ruling over an Arab and Berber underclass?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Radiochan

    not white as in european, no

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shut up troony no one asked you

      • 2 weeks ago
        Radiochan

        Obviously OP did, else he wouldn't have made the thread.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        but you're not white though

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Shut up troony no one asked you

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Youre describing Berbers. Who only temporarily made up the genetics of the moorish nobility before harem genetics took over and they were all Iberian.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Moors were White North Africans, Brown Arabs and Black slaves, whites have been in North Africa since the Sea People.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yo look at my NFTs

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's a meme online reconstruction of an almost destroyed fresco
      libyans from western egypt looked like pic rel, in the middle
      they were brown skinned, also they were unrelated to berbers from morocco and algeria, the modern western egyptians are their descendants

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/MGyZ6KF.jpeg

        The Moors were White North Africans, Brown Arabs and Black slaves, whites have been in North Africa since the Sea People.

        pic rel is another depiction of western egyptian "libyans", they were brown skinned people

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Lower Nubians
        >resembling nilotes
        doubt.jpg these labels look sus

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          they aren't, and it's an actual fresco
          libyans from western egypt were brown skinned

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No Moors were Arabs who built an Arab ethnostate on the corpses of countless of white men. They also raped lot of White women which is why some of them had menses colored hair and piss colored hair.

        https://i.imgur.com/4PLZ2Rr.jpeg

        [...]
        [...]
        this is another depictions of the "libyans" from western egypt

        Nobody care about your meme ethnicity.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/jHNbRQy.jpeg

      that's a meme online reconstruction of an almost destroyed fresco
      libyans from western egypt looked like pic rel, in the middle
      they were brown skinned, also they were unrelated to berbers from morocco and algeria, the modern western egyptians are their descendants

      https://i.imgur.com/hVbJv7L.jpeg

      [...]
      pic rel is another depiction of western egyptian "libyans", they were brown skinned people

      this is another depictions of the "libyans" from western egypt

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Light skin

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          brown skin

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          as light as the average pakistani

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            they are light in the image

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yes, as light as the average pakistani

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            nah Serdinian or Sicilian

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            more like pakistani

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The photo is a little dark, the lighter area especially the feet and arms, they are not brunettes/Brown

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            it's not dark, it's actually lightened up by someone holding a torch in front of ityou can see by the fact that the right border of the arm is lighter

            they look brown, that's called brown skin, a color similar to that of human feces

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not dark
            parts of the photo are lighter than others

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not Berber and you're color blind, very moronic I'm out talk to my friend:
            Your mother

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not dark
            parts of the photo are lighter than others

            overall it's undoubtedly brownoid skinned

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm from Sardinia and I didn't quite understand the comparison, although in the image they're not really dark.

            https://i.imgur.com/HWPitNP.jpeg

            Moors looks pretty white to me, why Black folk claim them?

            do you really think such phenotypes were common or frequent throughout the Mediterranean? We are ANF and such characteristics only appear continuously in early iron age in places with very specific steppe ancestry. the white elites meme died 10 years ago, grow up boy
            >Muh moors
            Lol

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm from Sardinia and I didn't quite understand the comparison, although in the image they're not really dark.
            in the image they look like pakistanis

            https://i.imgur.com/50dG1xg.jpeg

            more like pakistani

            stay out of this, sardinian slave, i'm schooling that coping berber mulatto

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >sardinian slave
            I didn't ask you anything, idiot.
            I see you are the same guy who has been posting the same posts with the same images to anyone who says a single word about MENA, why?

            Well, if a b***h like you is right (I don't care if you are right or not) why so much anger? Why does it hurt you? Did you get hit by a North African? you look crazy cracker hahaha
            and why slave? our ancestry represent more of the Roman, Greek, etc. ancestry :).
            by the way, related image is a building from Sardinia, something that fur-wearing imbeciles at the end of the bronze wouldn't understand.
            Get off, barbarian

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > The bell beakers raped as, see how roman we are
            Lmao
            Shoo shoo slave

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Romans don't even have 30% steppe ancestry, they are EEF. the new studies show this, in addition to a foreign sample that ate fish and was a woman.
            related photo

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            that's worse for you, it just means that the mostly r1b romans were even more the result of bell beaker rape

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            haplogroups are useless.
            the Romans were EEF, not bell beakers, that the same bell beakers were not a racial group, but a horizon. and I already had a lot of ANF
            we created the oldest commercial networks in Europe, we went from Sardinia to Cyprus

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >haplogroups are useless.
            Haplogroups show who your father is, and thanks to them we know that the ANF in romans is female mediated, you are coping
            >that the same bell beakers were not a racial group, but a horizon. and I already had a lot of ANF
            They steamrolled and raped a bunch of anf females before raping even more of them, same result

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It seems like I hit the nail on the head, right?
            no, you didn't
            >imagine that a moronic LBA believes this hard, and I know I'm right and I only need to show a single source to refute it, why would I be obsessed with that? this is you.
            nonsensical statement, not even worth reading
            >the 90s called, they want cell phones back. Autosomal DNA is what matters, haplotrash is 10% of the base genome.
            it doesn't matter how much of the genome it makes up, it shows the unbroken male line
            the mostly r1b romans were the result of bell beaker men and farmer females, this has been settled

            anf were so pathetic they even lost against whgs, even before the steppe people came to europe the most common haplogroup was I2 from whgs, please stop embarassing yourself

            One of the first examples
            of partrilineality comes from Neolithic Europe in 4,800 BC, where two families
            were buried in the necropolis at Gurpy, and both are connected through the male line, as determined by burial structure Y -DNA haplogroup analysis.
            The matriarchal meme has a greater occurrence among the imbeciles of the steppe than the ANF, in fact, we don't have a single example of matrilinealism among the EEF.

            and the recent study shows that the early Celts were matrilineal haha
            from the study:
            >such that men are more likely to be genetically closer to their sisters' children than to their own wives' children, ultimately favoring investment in sisters.
            Since you talked about haplogroup, we have elites among the IE hallstatt with haplogroup IE.
            Interesting study, lots of G2a too (I think 37%) hahaha since you are talking about haplogroups

            even the Two of the richest Celtic bass were R1b and were connected through their mother (female ancestor)
            This includes the famous Hochdorf chieftain.
            matrilinealism cucks

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochdorf_Chieftain%27s_Grave

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            stop it, that's just hypotetical bs that your low iq can't stop hyping up, they weren't matrilinear and there's no solid proof for it

            and you clearly don't have an argument against obvious facts, matrilinearity was never even mentioned, rape was mentioned
            it's clear by the haplogroup that the anf lost all around europe first to the whg and than later to the steppe people
            there's not a thing you can do to change this hard fact

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I m not she but nop
            The BK themselves were half anf.
            The EEF brought Bell Beakers to Northern and Central Europe, where it was adopted by the WSH through mating with the EEF.
            The European Chalcolithic is much more complicated than the steppe warriors did it all.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I see you are the same guy who has been posting the same posts with the same images to anyone who says a single word about MENA, why?
            mental illness

            >and why slave? our ancestry represent more of the Roman, Greek, etc. ancestry :).
            from the female side, nothing to be proud of

            Even Sardinians themselves are more i2 than anything else despite being only 13% whg

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I see you are the same guy who has been posting the same posts with the same images to anyone who says a single word about MENA, why?
            mental illness

            >and why slave? our ancestry represent more of the Roman, Greek, etc. ancestry :).
            from the female side, nothing to be proud of

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >mental illness
            It seems like I hit the nail on the head, right? let's use the flat earth as an example
            imagine that a moronic LBA believes this hard, and I know I'm right and I only need to show a single source to refute it, why would I be obsessed with that? this is you.
            >from the female side, nothing to be proud
            no, my love.
            the 90s called, they want cell phones back. Autosomal DNA is what matters, haplotrash is 10% of the base genome.
            Greeks and Romans, the fathers of the civilized world were ANF. and even the Aryan Celts seem to be closer to the ANF than the northern barbarians, don't they? hahah

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It seems like I hit the nail on the head, right?
            no, you didn't
            >imagine that a moronic LBA believes this hard, and I know I'm right and I only need to show a single source to refute it, why would I be obsessed with that? this is you.
            nonsensical statement, not even worth reading
            >the 90s called, they want cell phones back. Autosomal DNA is what matters, haplotrash is 10% of the base genome.
            it doesn't matter how much of the genome it makes up, it shows the unbroken male line
            the mostly r1b romans were the result of bell beaker men and farmer females, this has been settled

            anf were so pathetic they even lost against whgs, even before the steppe people came to europe the most common haplogroup was I2 from whgs, please stop embarassing yourself

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >nonsensical statement, not even worth reading
            >no hmmm haha
            >r1b romans were the result of bell beaker
            22% steppe-60% anf. They weren't bell beakers:)
            >Haplogroups show who your father is,
            Haplogroups do not show ancestry, only who had more reproductive success, by your logic are Brazilians white? with your paternal r1b from portugesws? Or are the Finns Sibarians? again, and are useful for showing movement only. Studies also use them because they are cheaper.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I didn't know they were light

        https://i.imgur.com/MGyZ6KF.jpeg

        The Moors were White North Africans, Brown Arabs and Black slaves, whites have been in North Africa since the Sea People.

        Fake

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      they were swarthy africans

      >The Sons of Boreas pursued the Harpies to the lands of the Massagetae and of the proud Half-Dog men, of the Underground-folk and of the feeble Pygmies; and to the tribes of the boundless Black-skins and the Libyans. Huge Earth bare these to Epaphus -- soothsaying people, knowing seercraft by the will of Zeus the lord of oracles, but deceivers, to the end that men whose thought passes their utterance might be subject to the gods and suffer harm -- Aethiopians and Libyans and mare-milking Scythians. For verily Epaphus was the child of the almighty Son of Cronos, and from him sprang the dark Libyans, and high-souled Aethiopians, and the Underground-folk and feeble Pygmies. All these are the offspring of the lord, the Loud-thunderer
      Hesiod

      >The Ethiopians above Egypt and the Arabians had Arsames for commander, while the Ethiopians of the east (for there were two kinds of them in the army) served with the Indians; they were not different in appearance from the others, only in speech and hair: the Ethiopians from the east are straight-haired, but the ones from Libya have the woolliest hair of all men.
      Herodotus

      >Sailing thence we came to the Lixus, a great river flowing from Libya. By it a wandering people, the Lixitas, were pasturing their flocks; with whom we remained some time, becoming friends. Above these folk lived unfriendly Æthiopians, dwelling in a land full of wild beasts, and shut off by great mountains, from which they say the Lixus flows, and on the mountains live men of various shapes, cave-dwellers, who, so the Lixitæ say, are fleeter of foot than horses.
      Hanno The Explorer

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >For verily Epaphus was the child of the almighty Son of Cronos, and from him sprang the dark Libyans, and high-souled Aethiopians, and the Underground-folk and feeble Pygmies. All these are the offspring of the lord, the Loud-thunderer
        IE bros?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >greeks believed that dark skinned libyans and ethipians came from the same source

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            libyans were literally just a bunch of curly haired ethio-pajeets

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Aethiopians and Libyans and mare-milking Scythians
        Now we can just forget the Scythians? They were apparently at the Ethiopian level.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          not related to each other, simply mentioned together

          but is says that libyans are dark and that unlike the Scythians they are brothers of the aethiopians

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            3rd grade level interpretation
            I wasn't speaking in a racial sense, but in a civilizational sense.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Who ever said the scythians were advanced? They were just steppeBlack folk

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            exactly genius. They were so primitive that they had similar practices to the Ethiopians

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If by Ethiopian you mean Libyans then yeah. The "other" Ethiopians like Indians and Nubians weren't primitive

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I wasn't speaking in a racial sense, but in a civilizational sense.
            we were speaking in a racial sense

            but anyway, yes, the schythians were superior nords, the greeks were just butthurt

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I was not.
            I don't fit into your "us"

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            but we were speaking in a racial sense, whether you agreed to it or not

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, they were Arabs ruling over a Berber and White underclass.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, the Umayyads were Arab and the later Almoravid and Almohad dynasties were Berber. The elites perhaps had some European features from mixing with their concubines but they weren't white by any modern definition

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization in the west were actually white people ruling over an Arab and Berber underclass?
    What? No homie are you moronic? The moors were never more than 9% of the population. They had red hair and european features because they had children with their European wives. The last Umayyad Caliph of Andalusia was somthing like 2.5% arab

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization in the west were actually white people ruling over an Arab and Berber underclass?
    no, those are vandal admixed mutt upper classes, also the iberian mutt that created those paintings had a personal bias
    paintings=/= historical proof
    the original moors were brown berber quadroons

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That is literally painted in the Alhambra Palace at the time of the last muslims emirs...

      And all chronicles of the time talk about how many blond and blue eyed people were in the elite muslim califas. A consequence of generations mixing with visigoth concubines from the north.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >That is literally painted in the Alhambra Palace at the time of the last muslims emirs...
        that depicts the 10 sultans of the Nasrid dynasty that ruled the emirate of granada in its last phases, that were extremely mutted, that doesn't change the fact that the iberian mutt that drew them had a personal bias

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He drew.most Iberians as blonde too, he was just a delusional swarthoid

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The moors were brown mulatto people
    Some moron Portuguese made those idealized portraits of mixed aristocrats (that depict the Iberian aristocrats as blonde too)

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Perhaps it was the invective in a hadith (saying attributed to Muhammad himself) that best captured orthodoxy's view on this question: "There are seventy parts of wickedness. The Berbers have sixty-nine, and mankind and the Jinns have one."
    why was he so cruel bros

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moors looks pretty white to me, why Black folk claim them?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Moors looks pretty white to me,
      cause that's an idealized portrait of vandal admixed mutt aristocrat made by some portugese

      the moors were swarthy fricks, moor also became synonym with dark skin

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The moortugese always had an inferiority complex

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No snowBlack folk, you were not kangs n shiet. You lead the shameful chapter of Iberian peninsula history, you got the most normal region in Western Roman Empire and you patetically lost it to Arabs just as you lost Italy and Tunis to Romans.

    Al-Andalus leaders bleached themselves by mixing with slaves from Europe. But they were so ashamed of their dads snow fever that they blacked their beards to look the most bedouin jihadi bin laden they could.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All great civilizations except for those in Asia were either white or had a white elite caste. They declined when the whites caste became racially polluted with brown blood. This explains why there were great civilizations in places now populated by incompetent brown people who can't do anything, and why the elites of brown countries tend to be slightly more europid in appearance.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      not the moors, their elites were brown
      there's no need to claim them, since their puny state has been mogged by hundreds of nations that came before and after them

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization
    it's one of the least important, only occupying some parts of iberia and morocco

    the umayyad expansion that literally conquered the entire MENA is far more important
    the ottoman empire, far bigger and far more important
    the Abbasid Caliphate
    the mughal empire

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Lolwut. They covered nearly all of northwest Africa and much of Iberia. Ottomans were an intellectual desert

      I never understood what Berbers have to do with al andalus.
      >711_1031 it was ruled by Umayyad Arabs
      >1031_1094 it was ruled by the taifa kings who were Arabs
      >1094_1147 ruled by almoravids
      Now, they were berbers, but they believed that their tribe was of Yemeni origin and claimed to be Arab, not to mention that they were using the Arab Muslim ruling system obviously from the abbasids, Umayyads, Fatimids etc
      >1147_1248 ruled by almohads
      Almohads also claimed an Arab lineage, they didn’t have a crazy theory like almoravids but claimed that one of their ancestors migrated to North Africa from Spain because of unrest that was happening there, they also brought a lot of Arabs to modern day Morocco as soldiers and men of their state, and like purged some Berber land to make space for them, wich makes their claim believable
      >1232_1492 ruled by nasrid Arabs
      So in 700 years only one Berber dynasty ruled that larded as Arabs yet people try to link al andalus with Berbers?

      >I never understood what Berbers have to do with al andalus
      Well for once, they helped conquered it with the Arabs and settled into Iberia afterwards.
      >claimed to be Arab,
      It was common for Muslims to claim Arab lineage for prestige and legitimacy. Even Morocco's current monarchy claims to he Arab when they obviously are just Arabized Berbers. From everything we know, the Almoravids/Almohads were most defiintely native

      How were the warriors berbers? Don’t you know that the Arabs conquered North Africa two years before Iberia and that the slaves from North Africa were never seen before? How is it that in two years there was enough fighting age berbers that became Muslim and fought with Arabs, didn’t you know that berbers revolted against the Umayyads? If the warriors were berbers they would’ve overthrew them but no the berbers got swept by the Arabs then the Yemeni and qaysi Arabs had a war, also the painting isn’t fake, Arab kings from the east married Turkic, African and Roman sex slaves, while ones from the west married European ones

      The army that conquered Visgoth Iberia was mainly Berber as was the commander Tariq Ibn Ziyad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Well for once, they helped conquered
        The Indians made up most of the British armies in campaigns outside of Europe, does that mean we should mention them in British conquests? No, they were fighting for the empire ruling them
        >settled into Iberia afterwards.
        90% got purged in the 740s after they revolted, that’s why when Arabs started to get soft and started caring about things like science they started using Slavic slave soldiers and local Muslim Spaniards, the berbers didn’t play a role in al andalus before almoravid conquest
        >It was common for Muslims to claim Arab lineage
        Nope it wasn’t that common, and if someone claimed they’d claim to be part of the prophet tribe, Almohads claimed to be from Baku sulaym and Almoravids claimed to be Yemeni
        >Even Morocco's current monarchy claims to he Arab
        They don’t claim, they are Arabs that came from the city of yanbu and it was known that they were new to Morocco, everyone knows that, there’s nothing backing them being berber
        >The army that conquered Visgoth Iberia was mainly Berber as was the commander Tariq Ibn Ziyad
        What your saying is the equivalent of the British sending an Indian army led by an Indian to conquer and settle France, it sounds so stupid, Tariq bin Zia’s was an Arab, the first man to mention he was Berber was in 12 century, the Umayyads didn’t let non Arabs ride horses let alone lead an army, you look at the list of governors of al Andalusia they were all Arabs, if berbers made up most or even half of the army they would’ve overthrown that system

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >does that mean we should mention them in British conquests?
          If they made up the majority of the army? Of course you should. Its even more egregious with Berbers because the commander was literally a native
          >90% got purged in the 740s after they revolted
          More would move in during the Almoravid/Almohad period so that is moot
          >Nope it wasn’t that common
          There is literally an entire group of Muslims mainly in South Asia that claim to be descended from Muhammad. Its not so strange for Muslims to claim they are Arab but if you are still not convinced, the Almoravid/Almohads more or less arose in west africa were there would barely have been any Arabs, its all Berber lands there and there was even a Moroccan sultan that spoke Arabic poorly
          >Tariq bin Zia’s was an Arab
          He wasn't, what is this BS? Most historians and sources agree that he was an Arabized Berber

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > If they made up the majority of the army?
            But berbers didn’t make up majority of the army.
            > commander was literally a native
            He wasn’t, the first mention of the conquest of al Andalus was made by ibn abd hakam who mentioned that he was an Arab of Yemeni origin of the tribe of Hamadan even ibn khaldoun mentioned it, you can see that historians who said he was Arab are more and older in this picture, I mean you don’t even need sources, up to his grandfather he has Arabic names, if he was born in 680 his grandfather who also has an Arabic name would at least be born around 640 and obviously no Berber had an Arabic name then
            >More would move in during the Almoravid/Almohad
            So you know that berbers had nothing to do with it? Anyway there’s no mention of some huge Berber migration to Iberia in the 11th and 12th century, not to mention Almohad preferred Arabs and gave North African Arabs lands in spain
            >There is literally an entire group of Muslims mainly in South Asia that claim to be descended from Muhammad
            As I said, they’d claim to be from the prophet family not som randos from Yemen
            > the Almoravid/Almohads more or less arose in west africa
            Almoravids did, but they believed that they are some ancient Yemeni Arabs who ended up there, almohad empire had two founding fathers, ibn tumert who claimed to be an idrisid Arab and even wrote a letter, and abd al mumen who was from telmecan and said that his ancestors were part of the Syrian Arab army that conquered Iberia from the sulaym tribe but his ancestors left Iberia because of the unrest, they also played the biggest part in Arabization in modern day Morocco by importing Arabs that were in Tunisia and Algeria

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But berbers didn’t make up majority of the army.
            >In the first stage of the invasion, the armies were made up of Berbers from northern regions of North Africa, together with different groups of Arabs from Western Asia. These peoples, clustered around the banner of the Umayyads did not mix together, remaining in separate towns and boroughs. The Berbers, recently subdued and superficially Islamized, were usually in charge of the most difficult tasks and the most rugged terrains, similar to the ones found in their North African homeland, while the Arabs occupied the gentler plains of southern Iberia
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Iberian_Peninsula
            >you can see that historians who said he was Arab are more and older in this picture
            There are contradictory acounds regarding his ethnic origins but most agree that he was Berber
            >Medieval Arabic historians give contradictory data about Ṭāriq's origins and ethnicity. Some conclusions about his personality and the circumstances of his entry into al-Andalus are surrounded by uncertainty.[1] The vast majority of modern sources state that Ṭāriq was a Berber mawla of Musa ibn Nusayr, the Umayyad governor of Ifriqiya
            >So you know that berbers had nothing to do with it?
            What? Its fact that Berbers moved into Iberia and had a presence there all the way until the Spanish inquisitions
            >Almoravids did, but they believed that they are some ancient Yemeni Arabs
            That's all it is, just claims with no hard evidence. The Almoravids and Almohads originated from Mauritania and the most southern parts of Morocco, amongst the Sahanja Berbers. Yusuf Ibn Tashin, the most famous Almoravid ruler was described as a curly haired swarthoid who spoke Arabic poorly, doesn't sound Arab to me

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Wiki source
            This is an actual source that I forgot to put in the last post, you can see that historians who said he was Arab are more and older

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Modern historians say he was Berber but honestly there is no absolute guarantee either way. The important thing to understand is that Berbers played a major rule in the conquest of Visigothic Spain. To deny that contribution is as absurd as ignoring the natives that helped the conquistadors conquer Mexico.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Shit the picture isn’t loading, but the first person to call him Berber was in 12 century while the first to call him Arab was in the 8th century, inn khaldoun called him Arab to

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >inn khaldoun
            an arab
            >Ibn Khaldun's insistence and attachment to his claim of Arab ancestry at a time of Berber dynasties domination is a valid reason to believe his claim of Arab descent.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He was a muladi actually like most andalusians

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            so was averroes btw.
            you guys can't we wuz saint augustine because he was born in algeria and then claim that every single relevant muslims born in spain were actually berbers when we know today that the majority of muslim in spain were local converts. Berberists are too greedy

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >and then claim that every single relevant muslims born in spain were actually berbers
            Stop strawmanning. The Moors were a mix of Berbers, Arabs and Iberians, it would be fallacious for anyone to claim all of them were Berber since they were a fairly diverse group

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            which make this dick contest with the turks funny because it's arabs (either nafri or actual arabs) using the achievements of iberian muslims to pretend that they're better than muslim greeks/kurds/armenians who pretend to be steppeBlack folk

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All the Berber dynasties claimed arab lineage, spoke Arabic, imported Arabs, used the Arab system created by abbasids Umayyad fatimids etc, and supported arabization

            He was a muladi actually like most andalusians

            Crazy that people give al andalus to berbers and Spaniards while their actual owners Arabs are not mentioned, its the only civilisation that is credited to its slaves and subjects, ibn khaldoun literally wrote his lineage in his book, insane

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >curly haired swarthoid who spoke Arabic
            Sound arab to me

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      true, the moorish kingdom was a useless minor kingdom, most of which made up of useless saharan shithole deser
      completely useless, by comparison the ottoman empire was far more important

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I never understood what Berbers have to do with al andalus.
    >711_1031 it was ruled by Umayyad Arabs
    >1031_1094 it was ruled by the taifa kings who were Arabs
    >1094_1147 ruled by almoravids
    Now, they were berbers, but they believed that their tribe was of Yemeni origin and claimed to be Arab, not to mention that they were using the Arab Muslim ruling system obviously from the abbasids, Umayyads, Fatimids etc
    >1147_1248 ruled by almohads
    Almohads also claimed an Arab lineage, they didn’t have a crazy theory like almoravids but claimed that one of their ancestors migrated to North Africa from Spain because of unrest that was happening there, they also brought a lot of Arabs to modern day Morocco as soldiers and men of their state, and like purged some Berber land to make space for them, wich makes their claim believable
    >1232_1492 ruled by nasrid Arabs
    So in 700 years only one Berber dynasty ruled that larded as Arabs yet people try to link al andalus with Berbers?

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    well, for the same flag who really believes that the Romans were "bell beakers" know that just by arguing based on haplogroups already shows your deficiency.
    you lost and I'm going to sleep...
    and it's worth remembering one thing
    Farmer telassocracy, farmer writing, farmer architecture, farmer culture, farmer BTFOing steppe blacks, ancient Greeks being majority farmers. All European greatness came from the EEF.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sardinian girl don't go sweetie
      please stay with me I know you don't like people who use mandeira like us but I can be your protector and companion you are very beautiful

      I never understood what Berbers have to do with al andalus.
      >711_1031 it was ruled by Umayyad Arabs
      >1031_1094 it was ruled by the taifa kings who were Arabs
      >1094_1147 ruled by almoravids
      Now, they were berbers, but they believed that their tribe was of Yemeni origin and claimed to be Arab, not to mention that they were using the Arab Muslim ruling system obviously from the abbasids, Umayyads, Fatimids etc
      >1147_1248 ruled by almohads
      Almohads also claimed an Arab lineage, they didn’t have a crazy theory like almoravids but claimed that one of their ancestors migrated to North Africa from Spain because of unrest that was happening there, they also brought a lot of Arabs to modern day Morocco as soldiers and men of their state, and like purged some Berber land to make space for them, wich makes their claim believable
      >1232_1492 ruled by nasrid Arabs
      So in 700 years only one Berber dynasty ruled that larded as Arabs yet people try to link al andalus with Berbers?

      The warriors were Berbers, the elite arabs. That photo is 100$ fake lol

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How were the warriors berbers? Don’t you know that the Arabs conquered North Africa two years before Iberia and that the slaves from North Africa were never seen before? How is it that in two years there was enough fighting age berbers that became Muslim and fought with Arabs, didn’t you know that berbers revolted against the Umayyads? If the warriors were berbers they would’ve overthrew them but no the berbers got swept by the Arabs then the Yemeni and qaysi Arabs had a war, also the painting isn’t fake, Arab kings from the east married Turkic, African and Roman sex slaves, while ones from the west married European ones

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >well, for the same flag who really believes that the Romans were "bell beakers" know that just by arguing based on haplogroups already shows your deficiency.
      you actual moron
      no one called them bell beakers, they were the SONS of bell beakers, this isn't hard to understand
      >you lost and I'm going to sleep...
      no, YOU lost
      >Farmer telassocracy, farmer writing, farmer architecture, farmer culture, farmer BTFOing steppe blacks, ancient Greeks being majority farmers. All European greatness came from the EEF.
      bullshits, for one, the language is indo european all around europe, and the cultures/religions of pagan europe were IE derived, all the rest is bullshit

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    > the most advanced Islamic civilization
    lol no, no one cares about them

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cordoba was one of the great centers of learning along with Baghdad and Cairo

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        overall it wasn't the most important islamic civilization, not even close. you can point to a few things here and there, but you could do that with any other islamic civilization

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not the most important of all time of course but certainly in the west which is what OP mentioned

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > in the west which is what OP mentioned
            if you mean geographically, that's pretty irrelevant, i mean, they were the only muslims in the "west"(i assume in the west of the mediterranean)
            if by west you mean important to westerners that's certainly not true, that was the ottoman empire

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >if by west you mean important to westerners
            Not really. The Moors lasted for nearly a thousand years and left a significant imprint in Iberia and some parts of Italy. Ottomans just kind of came and went

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he Moors lasted for nearly a thousand years
            ?
            they lasted for 700 years, half of which they were confined in a corner of iberia when they became an emirate
            the ottomans was actually involved with the british and german empires, the ottomans were a thread to enough to involve austria at points, there's no comparison, the moorish influence in europe was localized in iberia

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes from a military standpoint the Ottomans were more significant but the Moors left a much stronger cultural mark in Europe with their numerous mosques, castles, art and impact on the Spanish language. Ottoman presence in Europe is literally a nonfactor nowadays

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thats only in Iberia, the rest of Europe felt the ottomans politically and militarily much more than any other Islamic state by far

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, there are many Turkish speaking communities in the balkans
            And many Muslim communities too like pomaks or entire nations like Albania and Bosnia
            There's nothing of that sort in iberia

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Albania and Bosnia aren't Turkish nations. Millions come to Spain every year to visit Alhambra and other Moorish sites. No one cares about what the Turks did in Europe

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They practice Islam because of Turkish influence, that's their legacy, just because it's so ingrained that it's part of the society of those counties doesn't mean its not the result of Turkish influence, this matters more than a couple of crumbling buildings
            >Tourists
            Lmao

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            """Practice""" Islam even though most of them drink alcohol and eat pork

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            dishonest goal post moving
            they left a much bigger influence, they actually left a lot of converted people, albania, kosovo and bosnia are mostly muslim, other countries like monteBlack, north macedonia or bulgaria have massive muslim minorities due to ottoman influence
            the difference with iberia is that the ottoman influence is so ingrained in the most of the balkans that much of it is not seen as historical trivia like in iberia but it's contemporary

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah sure thing. Thousands of years from now, Moorish architecture will still stand in Iberia while Islam will have disappeared from the Balkans

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thousands of years from now the thousands of mosques in the balkans built during the ottoman period that are still used to this day on a regular basis will be considered nice little historical trivia like the much fewer mosques from the muslim period in iberia

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Imagine comparing the mosques in the Balkans to the ones in Iberia. Moors were far greater builders than the Ottomans who mainly just converted preexisting places. Hagia Sophia being the biggest example.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            they weren't and they built literally thousands of mosques and other buldings, far surpassing the extremely overrated moors
            this is a strange hill to die on
            the moorish influence was minimal and localized in iberia

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >far surpassing the extremely overrated moors
            Holy cringe. The Ottomans have literally never built anything close to stuff like Alhambra or Cordoba mosque. Ottoman architecture was extremely mid which is why no one goes to the Balkans for it

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no one goes to the balkans because it's made up of poor shitholes that don't suck tourists wieners and don't have an instagram pictures ideal climate, while iberia is an actual tourist trap
            >Alhambra
            literally 70% was built after then reconquista
            >Cordoba mosque
            full of later christian additions too

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Extreme cope, even a shithole like Mexico get tons of visitors. Turkey is up there too but they probably visit it for the Greek and Roman stuff

            Yeah bro I remember visiting that incredibly famous and awesome Ottoman site in Bosnia called... umm, something...

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you run out of arguments, i won
            the moors are the most overrated culture online probably because of moroccan incels roaming the internet

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Moorish civilization is underrated kino, only patricians can truly appreciate it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >mfw the swastikas though
            they knew who the good guys in the future would be

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Lol these Semites were building these mutt garden cities in Mesopotamia for thousands of years it's only beautiful to the Mediterranean snowBlack folk because they were familiars only to the Ancient Egyptian masonry until they saw Andalusia and these Semites reintroduced them to their real Abrahamic culture from Mesopotamia which triggers their renaissance.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >being a tourist trap
            >source of pride
            lol, lmao, xD even

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Their concubines were always white so they were very white themselves.
    The depictions of Moors as blacks appear at the end of the reconquista and in europeans places without contact with them, to make them more exotic.
    Now of course they used some black soldiers after converting them but that wasn't the norm. Abderraman I, the first emir of cordoba was from a Syrian father and a northern morocco women who was very white, and his descendants usually married white b***hes from Christian lands. I guess the almohades did use many blacks but not likely before.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      moors were always considered swarthy shitskins
      > northern morocco women who was very white
      she was brown

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You understand north Africa had been ruled by romans and vandals for centuries right?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You understand north Africa had been ruled by romans and vandals for centuries right?
          and? they left little to no impact on the locals, the mother of Abderraman I wasn't a roman or a vandal, she was a berber quadroon
          do you understand that berbers were brown colored quadroons?

          Distance to: CanaryIslands_Guanche.SG
          0.21722495 Eritrean
          0.22121166 Saho_Eritrean
          0.22493952 Ethiopian_Tigray
          0.23160092 Ethiopian_Afar
          0.23230692 BelgianC
          0.23274468 Swiss_German
          0.23316491 French_Paris
          0.23318755 French_Alsace
          0.23444958 French_Nord
          0.23602485 French_Pas-de-Calais
          0.23661160 BelgianB
          0.24085053 BelgianA
          0.24442981 French_Seine-Maritime
          0.24564211 French_Brittany

          >Considering E-M33 is a lineage of sub-Saharan origin, the presence of E-M33 in the indigenous population of the Canary Islands confirms the impact of sub Saharan migrations into North Africa prior to ~2,000 years ago. This result is consistent with sub-Saharan mtDNA lineages such as L1 or L2 observed in the Canarian native people

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The depictions of Moors as blacks appear at the end of the reconquista
      no, the depictions of artistocratic vandal-iberian-arab-moor-mutts as white appears at the end of the reconquista tho

      there are only 3 sources for it
      - this one that OP posted

      https://i.imgur.com/rh6sFg8.jpeg

      So the Moors who created the most advanced Islamic civilization in the west were actually white people ruling over an Arab and Berber underclass?

      (bigger version

      https://i.imgur.com/HWPitNP.jpeg

      Moors looks pretty white to me, why Black folk claim them?

      ) is the only fresco, dated around 1450-1480, at the very tail end of the reconquista, depicts a bunch of very late sultans
      - the remaining depictions come for the most part from the "Cantigas de Santa Maria", which is a collection of poems written by alfonse X around the 1270-1280 at the end of his life, and towards the end of the reconquista, at this point the islamic presence in iberia was already reduced to the "Emirate of Granada", a tributary state of the crown of castille
      - 1 depiction comes from the "Libro de los juegos", which is another book written by alfonse X around the 1260-1280, same as above

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    most peopled described the moors as swarthy from the very beginning
    these meme nobles and sultans descendants of concubines from all around europe are just mutts, not representative of any section of the population
    of course, that's assuming these meme artworks are even to be trusted, which obviously aren't, just the author that took some artistic liberties

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    more like europeans with arabic paternal y-dna ruling over a european mass and both protected by berber soldiers

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do Moorberian wignat filth desperately try and push this cope
    You were conquered for 800 years by brown Muslims and autosomal analysis show's youre 25% North African get over it

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Some of them were Slavs for some reason because it was common for Slaves to take over islamic government for some reason and everybody was fine with this because at least hey didn't interfere with inter-tribal feuds.

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