So were they hunter gatherers or did a lost civilization make this that we haven't fully discovered yet

So were they hunter gatherers or did a lost civilization make this that we haven't fully discovered yet

>gobekli tepe

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was a civilisation, but mainstream historians refuse to admit that because it makes them all look like fools for adamantly swearing civilisation is barely 6000 years old.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      But why can't they find any sort of evidence that shows progress . I mean they only excavated 5%

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >But why can't they find any sort of evidence that shows progress
        what the frick do you mean moron they were carving lifelike artistic representations in stone and building massive megalithic structures? What the frick is that if not progress?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      But why can't they find any sort of evidence that shows progress . I mean they only excavated 5%

      Is there a reason people are scarded their were civilizations before 4k BCE? I'm not talking about Atlantis shit but there had to be progress in the development of agriculture and settlements. Settlements wouldn't get big but they could be proto-city states. They had to develop the City somehow right?

      Because progress is an illusion, and civilizations rise and fall with the rise and fall of cognitive ability. When cognitive ability rises, knowledge is regained, and when it drops, knowledge is lost. We are in the latter times, and we are declining and nearing a fall.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      the sites were built by cheese-curdling, milk-drinking, white R1b-V88 cattle herders.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the sites were built by cheese-curdling, milk-drinking, white R1b-V88 cattle herders.
        /board

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    That was the Garden of Eden before the the 3000BC Noah flood and the Enochian hybridization, they weren't some pre-Adamites low iq hunter gatherer neanderthal wild beasts.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is there a reason people are scarded their were civilizations before 4k BCE? I'm not talking about Atlantis shit but there had to be progress in the development of agriculture and settlements. Settlements wouldn't get big but they could be proto-city states. They had to develop the City somehow right?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Is there a reason people are scarded their were civilizations before 4k BCE?
      Because even 40+ year old men are too insecure and childish to say "Well my best guess is it happened like this" and instead they phrase everything like "THIS happened at THIS specific time involving THESE people and I DEFINITELY know this".

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You're getting mad at people in your head again, and have never read an academic work.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Noone does that you fricking moron. If anything academics are TOO vague.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There were definitely civilizations before 4000BCE.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        moron

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I'm not the moron claiming that historians are conspiring to deny civilizations existed prior to 4000BCE.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >historians are conspiring to deny civilizations existed prior to 4000BCE.
            There doesn't need to be a formal conspiracy.

            They all know what's good for them and they all parrot the same lines so they keep getting paid.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hey, moron, historians put the start of civilization with the birth of agriculture.
            You need to double your number.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Even that isn't quite true, there are proponents for slapping the term "civilization" label on various outliers who achieve enough food surpluses and storage to support complex societies through any method, while others hold that even literacy or metallurgy of some sort is an absolute must, yet others would classify paleolithic hominid cultures as civilizations (that one is a fairly fringe position)

            Contrary to schizos' claims, there are entire academic circles dedicated to defining what the criteria/attributes of civilizations should be, or even what the very nature of the concept is, without regards for some arbitrary date cutoff.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm curious, what's the motive even supposed to be there? You think they're all secretly supporting Creationism or something?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm curious, what's the motive even supposed to be there?
            To go along with the status quo and get paid. That's it. Humans are very simple.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Virtually every single historian aspires to, and writes in order to, shake up the status quo or even revolutionize their field.
            You must be thinking of textbook writers or something.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Virtually every single historian aspires to, and writes in order to, shake up the status quo or even revolutionize their field.
            No, they aspire to get paid.

            Very rarely does shaking up the status quo get you paid. Just look at global warming for example, they have everyone in lock step.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            going AGAINST the status quo is how you get paid as an historian. That's also why every single grifter or paid shill makes outlandish claims like "black kangs ruled over egypt and built advanced civilizations all over africa but racist wypipo erased this" or "saar, bharat conquered the world 20000 years ago and every human language comes from sanskrit" or "roman emperors were all transgender people of color but the patriarchy suppressed it" or "every bronze age society was a command economy and jungle tribesmen are naturally communists, also capitalism ruined everything"
            Because there's not much demand for "hmmm, basically nothing new has been discovered in the past few decades and I have nothing to say"
            If things worked as you claim the status quo would have never changed from the 19th fricking century.

            >Just look at global warming for example
            How about an example from history you chode? But even the global warming consensus is what, 2 decades old since the last major revision? And back then it was brand new and revolutionary and made many people famous.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >going AGAINST the status quo is how you get paid as an historian
            >"black kangs ruled over egypt and built advanced civilizations all over africa but racist wypipo erased this" or "saar, bharat conquered the world 20000 years ago and every human language comes from sanskrit" or "roman emperors were all transgender people of color but the patriarchy suppressed it" or "every bronze age society was a command economy and jungle tribesmen are naturally communists, also capitalism ruined everything"
            Pick one.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I know /misc/ tries to convince you that shit like "vikings were proud female/FtM warriors and also pacifist muslim traders" is the academic status quo, but that's not yet the case, and it certainly wasn't when there started being an audience for that sort of claim.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            None of this are academic claims. This are all claims by moronic fringe ethnonationalists who hijacked the mainstream public discourse.
            It's not the academic status quo by a mile.

            You people who claim "academics" hide stuff from the people fundamentally misunderstands what an academic really does. Your post just proves it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >You people who claim "academics" hide stuff from the people
            That's not my claim.

            My claim is that "academics" are midwits who purposely ignore the truth when it's inconvenient to their careers.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >My claim is that "academics" are midwits who purposely ignore the truth when it's inconvenient to their careers.
            If the truth is something that diminishes their work and it's less profitable for them, for example: "Alexander the Great actually was a moron and didn't make most of his conquests", I can see why historians would conveniently ignore this stuff because they sell more books about how awesome Alexander was.

            But you can't convince me that academics are purposely hiding some big advanced civilization just for the status quo.
            Archeologists in particular are a bunch of broke people who beg for third world governments to authorize some excavations for the chance of finding something important (99% of them can't).

            If something as big as a new ancient civilization was found, everyone would risk everything to be pioneers and have their names in the books for eternity.
            It's waaaaay more profitable to sell books about a newly discovered civilization than selling the 1000th book about roman plumbing systems.
            You have to be pretty stupid to think most people wouldn't find this the opportunity of their lifetimes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I can see why historians would conveniently ignore this stuff because they sell more books about how awesome Alexander was.
            Maybe if they had already dedicated their life to wanking Alexander and had strong romantic attachment to that view, but there's also quite a demand for "famous historical figure was way overrated" or "X was a racist genocidal chud" or even "X is a myth/didn't exist."
            or basically anything at all that provocatively questions the status quo.
            Genghis Khan was a wise tolerant and fair king? That's good shit. Genghis Khan and his successors ruined Chinese and Islamic civilizations and set them back for centuries? That's also great for different audiences. "Genghis Khan fathered millions all over Asia" was gold but now that everyone heard about it, "Genghis Khan was actually a cuck who didn't even leave any biological descendants" is also a good idea to explore. "Horse archers are OP and Mongols were about to overrun Europe and turn it into empty pastures if Genghis hadn't died" is thrilling enough, but "Mongols were foiled by all the European castles dotting the landscape and horse archers are actually easily countered" is also something a lot of people apparently wanted to hear.

            I don't wanna give the impression historians only make shit up for fame and selling pop history books though, it's just that the prospect of becoming the guy who "shattered the myth of the invincible horse archers" or whatever is certainly not going to discourage anyone.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Fair enough.

            The funny thing is that the people who think academics cowardly hide behind the status quo are not even creative enough to think about the many possibilities of actually becoming recognized as a status quo breaker.
            Makes sense, actually. This people aren't academics, and they are also too stupid to become one, so they have their own projection of an academic who is stupid and uncreative as they are.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you wanna see how academics actually treat bold claims that threaten the status quo, here's for example a summary of the debate surrounding the Mitanni ruling class' use of Indo-Aryan (basically Vedic Indian) words, names and deities in Northeastern Syria some 3500 years ago, which was not only unexpected and geographically improbable but also had to compete with the more obvious hypothesis that the words were from the closely related (proto-)Iranian language:
            https://brill.com/display/book/9789004548633/BP000013.xml#ref_FN001012

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This is a cope. Even smart people take a lot of dumb shit at face value because they haven’t been taught anything else or they don’t want to step on older toes. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, hunter gatherers did not build this structure.
            >but da science says dey ate nuts and shiet so that can’t be true!
            Cope cope cope. How do we know what foods they ate or what tools they used? It’s all decomposed or reused leaving garbage.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >How do we know what foods they ate
            Shit, traces in utensils, trash.
            >what tools they used?
            Stuff that was either abandoned, forgotten, or thrown away.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >How do we know what foods they ate or what tools they used? It’s all decomposed or reused leaving garbage
            It's actually tragic that you can't even imagine how uninformed you are.
            Try reading some of these for starters:

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318464191_Agricultural_innovation_and_resilience_in_a_long-lived_early_farming_community_The_1500-year_sequence_at_Neolithic_to_early_Chalcolithic_Catalhoyuk_central_Anatolia
            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374196630_New_perspectives_on_plant-use_at_neolithic_Abu_Hureyra_Syria_an_integrated_phytolith_and_spherulite_study
            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274511337_Bioarchaeology_of_Neolithic_Catalhoyuk_Lives_and_Lifestyles_of_an_Early_Farming_Society_in_Transition

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Is there a reason people are scarded their were civilizations before 4k BCE
      No, it's just that those civilizations didn't left as many surviving artefacts such as Egypt or Babylonia or the Mayans etc. so normies and people who only consume mainstream pop history don't know anything about them.

      Actual academics are making a lot of amazing discoveries about the neolithic period and realizing that people from that time were way more advanced that we thought.
      It just hasn't hit the mainstream yet, unfortunately. All you will ever find about it's in some few books and academic articles.

      There's no conspiracy to hide this stuff. The thing is that most people don't know about any of this, but instead of actually researching they just act like a bunch of morons and say that archeologists are evil and hiding information from you.
      Just open "Google Scholar", bro.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        My favorite phenomenon is moronic youtube videos presenting "recent" (decades-old) discoveries as secret knowledge suppressed by the mainstream (aka not taught in school back when they were kids), using pictures and quotes from academic articles, wiki articles, and pop-science magazines.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Academics are hiding stuff from the people!!!!
          >Uses academic sources
          >They are open to the public
          I fricking hate conspiracy youtubers and tiktokers

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It less people being scared and more not takimg schizos at face value and said schizos thinking there is some conspiracy against them

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Undermines the entire fabricated Zionist "biblical narrative" most of history is currently based on
      >israel was samaria
      >solomon was shalmaneser
      >Asher was Ashur
      >Judaism not a religion until 5th century AD

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Quick, write down your definition of 'civilization'
    Or just sit there and be moronic I guess

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was an intermediary between HG and settled.
    In the Levant, we see a few aborted attempts at settled society before they actually succeeded in fully settling.
    It was probably a meeting place where different bands met to perform religious rites or trade.

    You don't go from Hunter-Gatherer to complex state societies over night, you know?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      tfw will never attend hunter-gatherer band camp

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      At a certain point, hunter-gatherers can become settled without the need for agriculture.
      Just look at the pre-modern NW Pacific tribes in Canada/Alaska, or the Late Jomon peoples from pre-historic Japan.

      There's arguments to be made that Cucuteni-Trypillia (East Europe) and Poverty Point (North America) peoples from the Neolithic were also fully or mostly hunter-gatherers. Yet they built impressive proto-cities.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Hell, isn't it believed the earliest stages of Jericho were sedentary HGs.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It has to be so. The first layers of Jericho are as old as Gobekli Tepe and older than any domesticated crop.
          They couldn't be farmers.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It’s an Isu vault

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    100 to 200 people haha
    The Le civilization fanfic is dead

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Pretty sad what the WEF did to this place.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Modified human crania from Göbekli Tepe provide evidence for a new form of Neolithic skull cult.
      Probably want to hide their origin.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Another conspiracy to "cover up" something no one knew about by extensively documenting and discussing it in academic papers, I see. Diabolical.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The problem comes from defining "Civilization" and people get antsy when things aren't black&white. The issue comes from the popular traditional view that Civilization=Farming&Permanent Structures in Organized Settlements, and Not-Civilization=Hunter-Gatherers&Temporary Camps. Places like Gobekli Tepe are awkward because they seem to be hunter-gatherers who were building "civilization" style permanent structures.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They were sedentary hunter gatherers transitioning into agriculture

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Do you (or the author) understand that the stone pillars probably held up something made of more perishable materials, that wasn't preserved?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the stone pillars probably held up something made of more perishable materials, that wasn't preserved?
        Prove it

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I honestly can't, but it seems bizarre to assume that is the whole thing. What would the point be? And, in fact the unique part might be that it had a stone base. How would you know about all wood buildings 34th century BC?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >but it seems bizarre to assume that is the whole thing
            Why? What's so weird about a bunch of votive pillars sorroumded by a wall without other structures?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because the pillars seemed to be purely ornamental. Their shape don't kinda fit with being supporting pillars.
            Also, we would have seen debris of the roof by now, and none of the debris found in the site seems to be part of a roof.

            Look at ruined greek temples, for example. When the roof falls down, some few parts of the roof still remain glued to the top of the pillars. There's nothing similar to that on Gobekli Tepe.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I get your point. But most of the pillars were found broken. There are only few of them entirely intact.

            I wonder how much of this site are ªï

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        what is your point?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >but it seems bizarre to assume that is the whole thing
          Why? What's so weird about a bunch of votive pillars sorroumded by a wall without other structures?

          My point is that it's ridiculous to assume that the only material stable enough to survive for so long is the entire object.
          Think what would remain from a japanese ryokan, or an american house.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I get your point. But most of the pillars were found broken. There are only few of them entirely intact.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the lack of a roof in the picture drawn by the ILLUSTRATOR does not imply there was never a roof

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Inbf how could hunter gatherers be sedentary
    Because they collected and stored wild grains

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Actually makes more sense that sedentary lifestyle is older than agriculture.

      It never made sense that classic narrative that agriculture predates sedentarism. How would nomadic hunter-gatherers would sow a seed, wait months for it to grow, and then spend generations upon generations artificially selecting them until the crops became domesticated... while having a nomadic lifestyle and needing to migrate all the time?

      It way more likely that the hunter-gatherers found a way of settling first, and only then having the time in their hands living in the same place to eventually develop agriculture.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This natufians actually lived in pretty advanced permanent to semi permanent settlements even though they were mostly hunter gatherers to start with.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        We even have real-life examples in recorded history with the Native Fishing Cultures of The North American Pacific North-West. The fishing was so good the hunter-gatherers became sedentary on the coast because the fish were just that plentiful, at which point they then developed artificial fish farms.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >pic
      this is like the meme of the children digging a hole at the beach

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Our israeli overlords will deny everything older than their babilonian ancestors and would rather nuke gobekli tepe because their right to rule is flimsly based on their civilization being the oldest

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They were coomers with furry fetishes. In the middle circle are animals, all around are men in a huge circle jerk.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    At this point we know they were farmers iirc. they've found ceramics with traces of fermented grains in them on the site. Also the dating kind of suggests that, there are traces of early wheat domestication on a mountain 120km away from about 9k BC, the site comes from 12k-8,5k BC iirc. Not unthinkable that the traces we have aren't the oldest traces in existence while the real date is closer to the younger limit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Isn't only 5% of site excavated

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Those pillars almost certainly held a great dome like wooden roof above the structure.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >hunter gatherers or did a lost civilization
    why can hunter gatherers not be civilized? false dichotomy. Yes they were hunters and yes they subsisted primarily on perennial crops(based) which they "gathered" (rather than sewing and harvesting, like annuals, gay) and yes they were civilized enough to build places to gather and interact with one another. They obviously produced artwork, which modern academia is only possible once agriculture has been invented because "muh uncivilized hunter gatherers have to spend ALL their time hunting and gathering" lmao. The pompous bastards can't even use their imaginations.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not gonna lie lads, I think the reason archeologists are hesitant to call it a full-fledged civilization is because most of the structure and related structures haven't been excavated, and they probably want to be cautious before pushing back the dawn of civilization before several thousand years.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    BIG ROCK, UGAH

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