Some people might be experiencing time as flowing backwards

And there is no way to tell.

In a life where time flows backward, existence unfolds in reverse from the endpoint of death, perceived as birth, to the beginning of birth, perceived as death. Individuals "grow down," progressively regressing from an aged state towards youth, recalling an entire life's worth of memories at the outset, which then fade like dissipating fog as each event "unhappens." Skills and knowledge are not accumulated but gently relinquished over time, as each learning experience becomes an act of 'unlearning.' Relationships commence in deep intimacy, gradually unwinding towards acquaintance and then non-recognition. Causality is inverted—effects are witnessed first, causes later rationalized, and actions taken to 'undo' rather than to build. Economic exchanges commence with the end product, which is then traded for currency, reversing conventional transactions. Narratives and histories are tales of diminishing outcomes, not of origins growing to conclusions. Goals are not set but emerge from what has already been accomplished, decisions unmade as the context for choice becomes less certain. Healing is replaced with the manifestation of injury from wholeness, while anticipation, joy, and fear are emotional echoes that linger after their eliciting events have phased out. In this world, life is less a journey forward and more a receding exploration into the uncharted territory of what has already, or rather, never been.

No you be wondering what the fricking am I on about ?

TL;DR inverting time flow in a process carrying meaning inverts the carried semantic values.

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Clarifying Misconceptions in Subjective Time Flow Reversal:

    1. It is critical to distinguish between the idea of an objective reversal of time, which would imply a fundamental change in the physical universe, and the notion of a subjective inversion of time perception, where individuals experience time as flowing backward while the physical world remains unchanged. We're not discussing TENET. We're discussing the meaning of any movie when you play it backwards.

    2. The contemplation of time flowing backward for an individual is not a matter that can be approached through empirical science or observation à priori. If you find an argument against it, but pinpoint it from the perspective of normal time flow you're failing. The point I'm making is analogous to saying "for some people, sky is down, sky is up". Don't counter it with "but gravity would make things falling skywards because gravity makes things fall down."

    3. Memory and Cognitive Processes: In a world where time is subjectively experienced in reverse, the concept of memory would be fundamentally altered. Rather than accumulating memories over time, individuals would experience a process where events are gradually "'forgotten'" or "unlearned" after they've occurred, mirroring their perception of time moving from future to past. There is no "remembering the future" as the very process of memory formation is reversed too.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The point I'm making is analogous to saying "for some people, sky is down, ground is up". Don't counter it with "but gravity would make things falling skywards because gravity makes things fall down."

      fixed

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >3. Memory and Cognitive Processes: In a world where time is subjectively experienced in reverse, the concept of memory would be fundamentally altered. Rather than accumulating memories over time, individuals would experience a process where events are gradually "'forgotten'" or "unlearned" after they've occurred, mirroring their perception of time moving from future to past. There is no "remembering the future" as the very process of memory formation is reversed too.
      if you think this is a way an experiencer can be, i suspect you may be something like a p-zombie who doesn't actually have conscious experience.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        > Proves my point. Since inverting time flow leads to inverting semantic values, a consciousness experiencer must be a zombie.

        Congrats. Insert coin to play again.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Some examples:

    The Vandal: A rebellious teenager sprays graffiti on the side of a clean train car, defacing public property with reckless abandon.

    Reversed:
    An industrious youth approaches a vandalized train car with a spray can. He meticulously clears the graffiti, revealing the pristine surface. He is a dedicated community servant.

    -----

    The Litterer: A pedestrian callously throws trash onto the sidewalk, marring the city street with carelessness and apathy.
    Reversed:
    A mindful citizen spots litter on the pavement. With a swift motion, she retrieves the waste and places it into her bag to dispose of properly later. She is environmentally conscious.

    -----

    The Food Waster: At a restaurant, someone scrapes a plate of uneaten food into the bin, wasting a meal that took time to prepare.
    Reversed:
    A skilled cook stands by a bin of scraps. With care, he assembles the discarded food back onto the plate, transforming refuse into a delectable dish. He is resourceful and creative.

    ============

    Conclusion: invert order, you invert meaning.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Inverting a process timeflow leads to an inversion of the semantic values it carries. If a resistance to that inversion can be made ("hey see how X would appear then ? Doesn't work !"), it's because the semantic values underpinning X are handled in a process beyond, a meta-process that hasn't been inverted too. If one were to invert the order of all processes, all the semantic values would be inverted. Speaking a language "backwards" is identical to saying exactly the opposite of what is said in the normal direction of time.

    In a semantic structure items take the origin of their value not inwards but from the differential relationships they have with other items in the structure. Inverting the whole structure basically leads to the same structure. Because of this we could be interacting with people experiencing time flowing backwards and would we have no idea, because modulo the flow of time, their antithetic values would be exactly the same as ours.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    That's a lot of complicated words to say that people understand and communicate their experience in a backwards way. Music illustrates that your analogy can not be completely consistent. Our interpretation of a musical piece can change after each note played and music has symmetry because even when played in reverse it still seems like it's progressing within the same scale which invokes the same emotion. It also seems like you're conflating inverse and reverse. So what is the added value of such thought exercise?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It also seems like you're conflating inverse and reverse.

      No. You.

      I specifically adressed this point. We're not talking about music played in reverse but experiencing time flow running backwards as we listen to music. A record would not evoke emotions but allow you to dump them and forget them.

      You checked all the points I raised in

      Clarifying Misconceptions in Subjective Time Flow Reversal:

      1. It is critical to distinguish between the idea of an objective reversal of time, which would imply a fundamental change in the physical universe, and the notion of a subjective inversion of time perception, where individuals experience time as flowing backward while the physical world remains unchanged. We're not discussing TENET. We're discussing the meaning of any movie when you play it backwards.

      2. The contemplation of time flowing backward for an individual is not a matter that can be approached through empirical science or observation à priori. If you find an argument against it, but pinpoint it from the perspective of normal time flow you're failing. The point I'm making is analogous to saying "for some people, sky is down, sky is up". Don't counter it with "but gravity would make things falling skywards because gravity makes things fall down."

      3. Memory and Cognitive Processes: In a world where time is subjectively experienced in reverse, the concept of memory would be fundamentally altered. Rather than accumulating memories over time, individuals would experience a process where events are gradually "'forgotten'" or "unlearned" after they've occurred, mirroring their perception of time moving from future to past. There is no "remembering the future" as the very process of memory formation is reversed too.

      Congratulations !

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >No. You.
        Wrong.
        This is inverse.

        Some examples:

        The Vandal: A rebellious teenager sprays graffiti on the side of a clean train car, defacing public property with reckless abandon.

        Reversed:
        An industrious youth approaches a vandalized train car with a spray can. He meticulously clears the graffiti, revealing the pristine surface. He is a dedicated community servant.

        -----

        The Litterer: A pedestrian callously throws trash onto the sidewalk, marring the city street with carelessness and apathy.
        Reversed:
        A mindful citizen spots litter on the pavement. With a swift motion, she retrieves the waste and places it into her bag to dispose of properly later. She is environmentally conscious.

        -----

        The Food Waster: At a restaurant, someone scrapes a plate of uneaten food into the bin, wasting a meal that took time to prepare.
        Reversed:
        A skilled cook stands by a bin of scraps. With care, he assembles the discarded food back onto the plate, transforming refuse into a delectable dish. He is resourceful and creative.

        ============

        Conclusion: invert order, you invert meaning.

        >Reversed:
        >An industrious youth approaches a vandalized train car with a spray can. He meticulously clears the graffiti, revealing the pristine surface. He is a dedicated community servant.
        Reverse would be:
        >A rebellious teenager becomes less rebellious by absorbing the graffiti from the sprayed surface back into his spray can and going home. No one remembers the surface ever being sprayed so there's no service to the community.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >No one remembers the surface ever being sprayed so there's no service to the community.
          In actuality, individuals who witnessed the wagon being sprayed would retain those memories. The concern here is how the rebellious teenager, who distinctly remembers spraying the wagon last night, manages not to fall into a cycle of repeatedly spraying and undoing the wagon. The critical point is how, in a universe with reversed time, can we ensure that the teenager undergoes a change and becomes 'less rebellious,' thereby preventing the recurrence of the motive to spray the same wagon later that day?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            by hypothesis the reversed-time universe is physically identical to the normal universe, so we can't act differently than we would if the normal universe were all there was.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > The concern here is how the rebellious teenager, who distinctly remembers spraying the wagon last night, manages not to fall into a cycle of repeatedly spraying and undoing the wagon. The critical point is how, in a universe with reversed time, can we ensure that the teenager undergoes a change and becomes 'less rebellious,' thereby preventing the recurrence of the motive to spray the same wagon later that day?

            This isn't TENET though. First the railway employee who "unwashes" the train will make the graffiti appear by applying dilitued colors from his water bucket using his mop. Then reversed erosion will make it look more vivid. Finally the teenage will absorb the grafiti in his spray cans and put it back into the store's alley. He'll receive money for this.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >So what is the added value of such thought exercise?

      FIguring out you can probe process and semantic hierarchies by carrying out process and meaning inversion. Might be useful in machine learning or some other form of semantic system modeling

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >In a life where time flows backward, existence unfolds in reverse from the endpoint of death, perceived as birth, to the beginning of birth, perceived as death.
    Whatever, okay.

    >Skills and knowledge are not accumulated but gently relinquished over time, as each learning experience becomes an act of 'unlearning.
    Okay you are a fricking moron. Your statement implies a reversal of time while maintaining the typical 'learning' process. However, in a scenario where time runs in reverse, the concept of 'unlearning' is invalid as there would be no initial 'learning' to initiate the unlearning process.

    > Relationships commence in deep intimacy, gradually unwinding towards acquaintance and then non-recognition.
    This happens even now...

    >and actions taken to 'undo' rather than to build
    If causality operates inversely in this scenario, what is there to 'undo'? Your statements are just...

    >We're discussing the meaning of any movie when you play it backwards.
    The story will still hold some meaning..

    >3. Memory and Cognitive Processes:
    Contrary to your assertion, in a reversed temporal sequence, while time itself may reverse, the functions of memory would likely remain consistent. The shift would manifest in the formation and arrangement of mental connections shaped by experiences. Even in a reversed universe, people's cognitive abilities would adapt to this altered flow of time, yet this adjustment wouldn't inherently entail 'forgetting' past experiences.

    >Conclusion: invert order, you invert meaning.
    How did i get baited so hard?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Okay you are a fricking moron. Your statement implies a reversal of time while maintaining the typical 'learning' process. However, in a scenario where time runs in reverse, the concept of 'unlearning' is invalid as there would be no initial 'learning' to initiate the unlearning process.

      You're the moron here. The initial state is death which stands for birth. Just after death (or before, with our normal time direction) you have all your memories (from our point of view) and when the remembered event will happen, as time flies backwards, you will forget them and unlearning will occur.

      > If causality operates inversely in this scenario, what is there to 'undo'?
      What has already happened in the future (i.e. in the past for someone living witch backwards flowing time). You'd be able to 'undo' a fire by extinguishing and swallowing it up into a matchstick.

      : invert order, you invert meaning.
      >How did i get baited so hard?

      As stated: doing becomes undoing with a reversed time direction.

      >No. You.
      Wrong.
      This is inverse.
      [...]
      >Reversed:
      >An industrious youth approaches a vandalized train car with a spray can. He meticulously clears the graffiti, revealing the pristine surface. He is a dedicated community servant.
      Reverse would be:
      >A rebellious teenager becomes less rebellious by absorbing the graffiti from the sprayed surface back into his spray can and going home. No one remembers the surface ever being sprayed so there's no service to the community.

      >No. You.
      Wrong.
      This is inverse.

      I haven't introduced any distinction between inversion and reversal so there is none. Global ontologies don't work. Stop prescribing.

      >No one remembers the surface ever being sprayed so there's no service to the community.
      In actuality, individuals who witnessed the wagon being sprayed would retain those memories. The concern here is how the rebellious teenager, who distinctly remembers spraying the wagon last night, manages not to fall into a cycle of repeatedly spraying and undoing the wagon. The critical point is how, in a universe with reversed time, can we ensure that the teenager undergoes a change and becomes 'less rebellious,' thereby preventing the recurrence of the motive to spray the same wagon later that day?

      >No one remembers the surface ever being sprayed so there's no service to the community.

      A good point, at last. This conclusion only works from our perspective because the inversion isn't total. What I posit is that if we push the idea of inversion to the maxx, we end up with a semantic structure that is equivalent to ours. We might be perceiving the flow of time differently and still be able to argue in this very thread.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The initial state is death which stands for birth.

        Your proposition of the initial state as death symbolizing birth carries certain issues. Even if an individual were to be born with all their memories, this doesn't inherently lead to forgetting as time reverses. If our hypothetical subject's memory functions akin to ours, as previously indicated, it doesn't imply an inevitable forgetting. Personally, I haven't forgotten what I learned twenty years ago. Your description seems to suggest a reversal of the learning process, which I accept, though it might seem tedious to relearn simpler subjects.

        >doing becomes undoing

        The concept of 'doing becoming undoing' is applicable only to external observers like us, situated outside that paradigm. If in that reversed-time universe another individual conceived the same idea as you're presenting now, there would be a counterpart playing the role I am. Reversed time direction doesn't inherently signify an absolute concept of negation or undoing, contrary to what your claim suggests.

        > First the railway employee who "unwashes" the train will...
        "Inverting time doesn't inherently invert meaning itself. It alters the functions of individuals' mental faculties, potentially leading to a reversed logic in their understanding. In this context, why would one employ such an individual? How would a young person profit from selling a filled can? What purpose does a filled can serve in this context? In this context, 'meaning' takes on a profound essence distinct from our understanding, transcending a mere reversal. The entire world would need a complete restructuring to align with their unique understanding of meaning, which presently eludes my grasp. It's evident that this isn't merely a straightforward reversal, but a paradigm where meaning holds a vastly different significance than in our world.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Continuing from there. Are you trying to come up with a movie idea? I want a part in it!

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >We might be perceiving the flow of time differently and still be able to argue in this very thread.
        Engaging in such an endeavor would seem futile, as we'd predict each other's responses. Though the structure of semantics might mimic ours in form, the meaning would differ significantly. If we were bound by this reverse causality concept, we might continue interactions, but given the potential sameness in human nature, such engagements might lack interest or appeal. It would necessitate the creation of a semantic system that compensates for the deficiencies in our reversed world.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >perceiving the flow of time differently and still be able to argue in this very thread.
        It seems to me that you're cherry picking what goes backwards and what doesn't. Please clarify the mechanics and why those mechanics must be that way and not another way. For example: are we typing ABC DEF or FED CBA or DEF ABC or ?

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Considering the lack of follow-up: this was just a (you) farm after all? Why does OP derive pleasure from that?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Follow up now:

      >perceiving the flow of time differently and still be able to argue in this very thread.
      It seems to me that you're cherry picking what goes backwards and what doesn't. Please clarify the mechanics and why those mechanics must be that way and not another way. For example: are we typing ABC DEF or FED CBA or DEF ABC or ?

      >are we typing ABC DEF or FED CBA or DEF ABC or ?
      FED CBA.

      but as you type what's already on the screen, character disappear !

      The setting we're discussing is the following: as an anthropologist you're tasked with describing a culture as depicted in a movie played backwards. Your goal is to "translate" their value in our own value system. Example: "death stands for birth. Mourning a dead is a way to summon him to life."

      Now imagine you write a program that parses before and after states from input and assigns names to theses transitions. You may use rules such as:
      alive -> dead: kill
      dead -> alive: resuscitate

      If you were to inverse the input of the program (keeping symbols atomic), you'd get the opposite transformations as a result. Dead instead of alive and vice versa.

      Now if we were to account for meaning on the basis of process theories, we should expect this to be almost everywhere. And we would find ourselves able to find opposite meaning by inverting the underlying processes to some extent. To which extent exactly ?

      It seems there are limits to this reasoning. Take truth and falsity for instance. Even though it often deals with processes it's unclear what kind of process underlies such a value. Writing proofs or fake stuff in wikipedia ? Indeed with reversed time flow, marks on the blackboard elongate the piece of chalk as the proof disappears, and fake news get "erased" by those that would have written them in a forward flowing time context.

      Is this absolutely idiotic ?
      > Yes
      Or is there some merit to this observation that when tied to processes, inverting time flow leads to inverting semantic values. I'm coming from a comp-sci / semiotic / linguistics background and the closest thing I can find is CPT-symmetry in physics.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        As for the subjective direction of time and the metaphysical impossibility to distinguish between individuals with different perpective on time, it raises the question of time qualia. I definitively feel like I experience past first and future after, but for people with the opposite time arrow past would be future, future would be past, before would be after and after before ! In other words, they would understand "past before and future afterwards" as "future after and past before" from their own perspective which is the same thing !

        Unbeknownst to the other half, half of the posters in this thread have in fact removed their posts by "untyping" what was on the screen in order to forget about this very conversation and get rid of the interest it had arisen in them, continuing their journey towards getting ever younger up to the moment they enter mommy's womb !

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >opposite meaning
        It's still not convincing that this is the case because there's a time-independent evaluation which also correlates with an AI being more or less embodied. For example: humans are biased to value / prioritize gain over loss and tend to accumulate knowledge, skills and posessions. Reversing time reverses those gains without reversing the bias unless humans reinterpret their experience regardless of the arrow of time. Losses can be reinterpreted as gains and vice versa. Living forward / backward in that sense is not a matter of time but of value. A disembodied AI is more agnostic because it does not value the state of its vehicle as much an an embodied being.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      egnib htem a no s'eH
      tihs hO
      !gnineppah s'tI

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Nah

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Prove it

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    all people do accuhally, but it expands fast enought into the futur that you dont have to mind.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      i believe the backwardsdrall of the humansies moron clock is betzween 5-30%

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Damn all the schizobabble got ramped up to 11 once string theory failed

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