The RARARARA Archipelago

Why did Sao Tome and Cabo Verde become independent from Portugal? They weren't connected at all to any of the Colonial Wars(Cabo Verde was somewhat, but they were only nominally connected to the Guinea-Bissau war in name only) and their populations are/were completely Portuguese culturally given the islands were uninhabited before Portugal discovered them and were/are integrated highly into Portugal economically. Was Portugal's post-Carnation Revolution government just that high on decolonizing everything, even if it made no sense regarding Sao Tome and Cabo Verde which had always been Portuguese?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    who the frick cares

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >populations are/were completely Portuguese
    They had an Afro-Portuguese culture.

    [Portuguese culturally given the islands were uninhabited before Portugal discovered them and were/are integrated highly into Portugal economically.
    It was basically abandoned after the slave trade collapsed. Portuguese colonies just enslaved their own natives for labour supply. Abandoned for ages until the point that bring under Portuguese rule brought not benefit to the island as thousands migrated outside of Cabo Verde for work.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It was basically abandoned after the slave trade collapsed.
      Indeed, but the insular colonial mercantile economy collapsing wasn't something unique to those areas. Mauritius, Reunion, and pretty much the entire Caribbean and Pacific experienced something similar around the same time with dramatically varying results.
      >Abandoned for ages until the point that bring under Portuguese rule brought not benefit to the island as thousands migrated outside of Cabo Verde for work.
      Most of them just went to Portugal.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >We're going to be le independent!
        >Most of them just went to Portugal.
        Many such cases

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          i have no doubt in my mind that if there was a referendum at the time that stated that they would all be fully portuguese with the same rights and freedoms most of the overseas would still be Portugal
          hell even Amilcar Cabral said that if Portugal were to become a full democracy with equal rights for everybody then hed have no reason to fight

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I bet you guys would've made them cool. Sao Tome seems like it could've become the Portuguese version of Reunion or Mauritius while Cabo Verde would've been a cooler version of the Azores.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I bet you guys would've made them cool
            Portugal had tgise places fir centuries and let them rot. A sudden reversal in policy by an imperial state barely hanging on was very unlikely.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >A sudden reversal in policy by an imperial state barely hanging on was very unlikely.
            The thing was it'd make the crisis surrounding the Retornados much easier, very similar to how Frenchmen on the mainland African colonies fled to Reunion and turned it into a hub. The former colonials would have a de facto colonial area to settle down and make the transition back into the new Portugal far smoother. It'd also result in an influx in a large influx of skilled human capital into the islands to modernize their economies and re-integrate them.

            >unironic traitors were in charge of abandoning the overseas
            How is thinking that sustaining a system if rule that was never sustainable with the budget/issues of bring one of the poorest West European states being a traitor? That's like saying Enoch Powell was a traitor for critiquing the immense double standards and PR disasters in the British colonies, or Heinrich Schnee was a b***h ass pussy for surrendering in ww1 so that Eastern African German/British colonies wouldn't get destroyed in guerilla campaigns.

            >even Angola sent representatives to discuss representation with the new portuguese regime and they were ambushed away by portuguese commies
            Source?

            Portugal had a very different relationship politically and culturally with its colonies than any of the other European Colonial Empires did, hence why they fought tooth and nail to hold onto them. Look up the concept of Lusotropicalismo if you're interested, it was basically the Portuguese equivalent of American exceptionalism and was a cornerstone of it's national identity up until the Carnation Revolution.
            >Source?
            Portugal in the early 70s did try to get a bunch of deals done in Angola to try and get the war under wraps to focus on Guinea. For a number of reasons it didn't work, much like Rhodesia's late-stage reforms to save itself politically.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Cabo Verde is still today very much portuguese
      of course there are cultural diferences, but that is the same for all regions of Portugal, especially Madeira and Açores

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >but that is the same for all regions of Portugal, especially Madeira and Açores
        There's a lot of differences. It's like saying Afrikaners and Dutch are the same.

        >It was basically abandoned after the slave trade collapsed.
        Indeed, but the insular colonial mercantile economy collapsing wasn't something unique to those areas. Mauritius, Reunion, and pretty much the entire Caribbean and Pacific experienced something similar around the same time with dramatically varying results.
        >Abandoned for ages until the point that bring under Portuguese rule brought not benefit to the island as thousands migrated outside of Cabo Verde for work.
        Most of them just went to Portugal.

        >Most of them just went to Portugal.
        Nor really. A ton went to the US (as the first African immigrants) many went elsewhere to ply their skills as sailors elsewhere in the world.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >There's a lot of differences. It's like saying Afrikaners and Dutch are the same.
          In all fairness "Portuguese" as an identity has always been far more fluid ethnically than other Europeans due to their small size, vast geographic spread/diaspora, and Catholic influence regarding race/ethnicity. In Portgual a Jeet from Goa is no more or less Portuguese than a Lusatian from the Douro valley or a Mestico from Mozambique.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I wish they didn't, they'd be a lot nicer now 🙁

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Obligatory reminder that pic related stops its description of the life of a random pirate out of nowhere to give an excellent account of the life of Sao Tome and Principe in the XVIII Century... and to rant about the Portuguese authorities allowing black people to be Catholic priests there, to whom everybody, either black or white, needs to kiss the hand in case they pass by them.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Sounds very fascinating, could you get me a pdf of it or is it available to buy somewhere?

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    unironic traitors were in charge of abandoning the overseas
    if it was up to them Madeira and Açores wouldve been abandoned as well
    hell, even Angola sent representatives to discuss representation with the new portuguese regime and they were ambushed away by portuguese commies
    Timor is the same, in fact they let them be invaded by indonesia and suffer genocides for 25 years

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Timor is the same, in fact they let them be invaded by indonesia and suffer genocides for 25 years
      I've heard as a result of that Timor has started to really embrace the Portuguese language and Catholicism, which is interesting for an Asian country.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://www.languagemagazine.com/2023/02/14/timor-leste-changes-law-to-enforce-portuguese-in-schools/

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          interesting

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >unironic traitors were in charge of abandoning the overseas
      How is thinking that sustaining a system if rule that was never sustainable with the budget/issues of bring one of the poorest West European states being a traitor? That's like saying Enoch Powell was a traitor for critiquing the immense double standards and PR disasters in the British colonies, or Heinrich Schnee was a b***h ass pussy for surrendering in ww1 so that Eastern African German/British colonies wouldn't get destroyed in guerilla campaigns.

      >even Angola sent representatives to discuss representation with the new portuguese regime and they were ambushed away by portuguese commies
      Source?

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