There is simply no way to morally justify depriving an animal of its nature, disrupting its evolution, and forcing it to accept your company purely be...

There is simply no way to morally justify depriving an animal of its nature, disrupting its evolution, and forcing it to accept your company purely because you think it looks nice. Why has pet ownership been so normalized in society historically speaking?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    only the ones meant to understand your thread will see what was done here for the glorification of God.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    According to who? Since when is 'disrupting' a creature's evolution a crime, who am I wronging exactly?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > kidnap an animal that went through centuries of evolution, neuter it, force it to live to your standard
      > Who did I wrong?
      Dogs and cats aren't found in the wild when they can't find a new caretaker. They've adapted to living in unnatural urban centers and begging for food by whimpering.
      You wronged the animal and you wronged nature.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Who says animals must live in the wilderness? And am I not part of nature myself?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Living in an urban society (city, hut, farm, whatever), is your resignation of the perfect freedom that you enjoyed in nature for social security.
          > Who says animals must live in wilderness?
          Animals have an important duty in nature and owning pets disrupts their biological task.

          >purely because you think it looks nice
          Animals were originally domesticated because of their utility
          >depriving animal of its nature
          Over thoiusands of years animals have evolved and It's now their nature to live with humans. Compare wolfs, ancient dogs and modern dogs. In the next hundreds years dogs will evolve to be even more "symbiotic" with humans

          Dogs may have been, but they don't fulfill their utilitarian duty anymore outside of blind services dogs, police dogs and shepherd dogs, but they are a minority.
          > It's now their nature to live with humans
          Which is why I made this thread. I want to know what internally justifies you wanting to bring an animal to total dependency on you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Animals have an important duty in nature and owning pets disrupts their biological task.
            Who says they have a duty in nature? Did someone give them one?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Notice how not a single one of these posts have tried their hand at simply telling me what makes them believe that domesticating an animal is OK. Instead it is all appeals to emotion or whataboutism.

            Science does and so does the environment.
            They regenerate soil health, spread seeds, and keep the cycle going.
            Why does this role have to be delegated to them?

            I agree unironically. Eating meat and hunting is fine though. Keeping a castrated mutt in a city is animal abuse.

            This. Eating meat isn't mutually exclusive with being against pet ownership.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Science does and so does the environment.
            >They regenerate soil health, spread seeds, and keep the cycle going.
            >Why does this role have to be delegated to them?
            Then it's not a moral issue but a practical one. It's not like we're abducting the majority of these populations to become pets, there are plenty in nature to maintain things.

          • 1 month ago
            Erfurt Jew

            >we're abducting the majority of these populations
            You are not making this discussion any easier by not specifying the animals and the conditions

      • 1 month ago
        Erfurt Jew

        That’s just untrue. Stray cats and dogs exist. It’s more so the case for dogs.

        >There's videos of people killing bugs with hammers and it's very normalized, people justify it with strange excuses like "They don't feel pain so it doesn't matter". This borders psychopathy.

        To some degree. It honestly depends on the bug if I’m being truthful. People would rather kill a tick or mosquito (no problem in my case) than a butterfly or caterpillar. I guess if you mean the more gray area ones like spiders (ik ik)moths,centipedes, beetles etc I kind of agree. I would never kill any bug that hasn’t harmed me. Even wasps and spiders I try to save. I find that if you don’t freak out there is a surprisingly high amount of stuff you can get away with. I taken out a wasp or two on my hand no issue. It obviously depends on the animal. Some are just naturally aggressive.

        I find killing bugs less of a grievance than industrial agriculture, food waste, pollution, cars, small animal abuse (hamsters in tiny cages). I’m on the fence about fishing. I’ve never personally enjoyed it but I’m unsure if it’s bad to catch a fish and just release it.

        People who kill any thing more than a bug are candidates for psychopathy. Human nature is inherently selfish and narcissistic. It applies to everyone. Survival doesn’t work if you don’t somehow put yourself first. Humans hide behind a lot of ignorance and dissonance. It’s why I don’t believe in any moral gods or “good people”.

        Pet ownership is a very broad spectrum. As a whole I disagree with your idea that it is entirely bad. Tigers suffer in the wild from poachers and habitat loss aside for having to compete with nature and the elements. There are pluses and minuses to both captivity and nature. I think this is important to address. On the matter of Zoos, I think they are unnecessary and cruel. People are repulsed by the idea of human zoos but animals get a pass

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You have a circumstantial view of psychopathy. I personally can't say "X is more psychopathic than Y", I think that psychopathic behavior just is. If you hang around psychopaths enough you'll see the "precursors" can never go away, but they always have potential to expand. We can agree that taking joy in killing living things is psychotic I assume. Your opinions are the most common ones that I encounter (save for not wanting to kill spiders out of fun, thats uncommon) and I am sincerely convinced that it comes from a place of aesthetic appeal than anything else.

          >Science does and so does the environment.
          >They regenerate soil health, spread seeds, and keep the cycle going.
          >Why does this role have to be delegated to them?
          Then it's not a moral issue but a practical one. It's not like we're abducting the majority of these populations to become pets, there are plenty in nature to maintain things.

          The issue being small doesn't make my question less important. I am still curious to see how people justify pet keeping.
          It's a moral question. People do it for their personal enjoyment, I want to see why they internalized the idea that it's completely fine to neuter them for joy.

          For the same reason we eat meat: it's in our nature.

          We eat meat because it's nutritious.
          Many people get a pet because they think they look fun. Literally for "stress relief".
          It's not the same reason at all.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >We eat meat because it's nutritious.
            We eat meat because it tastes good. The same reason we eat sugary garbage that is bad for us.

            >Many people get a pet because they think they look fun. Literally for "stress relief".
            >It's not the same reason at all.
            We do it because we enjoy it.

          • 1 month ago
            Erfurt Jew

            I keep (you)ing the wrong people

            I think intention matters. Also behavior can be conditioned. My basic instinct is not to kill bugs but my mother never killed bugs. I imitative if I grew up around different people I wouldn’t put much thought into it.

            >Many people get a pet because they think they look fun. Literally for "stress relief".

            Specifically what kind of animals and what kind of conditions. Also many people don’t. They adopt or rescue. It’s actually quite common

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >We eat meat because it's nutritious
            There's no need to eat meat with the access to non-meat protein we have nowadays. It's morally unjustifiable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The issue being small doesn't make my question less important.
            Yes it does
            >It's a moral question.
            But you just said
            >Animals have an important duty in nature and owning pets disrupts their biological task.
            Which doesn't have anything to do with morals, in response to being asked why the frick you think it's wrong

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Dogs and cats aren't found in the wild when they can't find a new caretaker.
        Dogs adapt fine to the wild. They will even outcompete wolves in the local area because they work better as a pack.

  3. 1 month ago
    Erfurt Jew

    I disagree. It isn’t so black and white. Why do you think animals enter your home when it gets cold? Evolution is about survival not comfort. What about the evolutionary misfits who end up living a subpar life? I think it’s ok to help them. I take compassion on even the smallest bugs and try to take them outside. I rescued a stink bug that was stuck on a piece of tape. I carefully helped him for a good half hour. He was my friend and hung out on my shoulder. I came back the next day and he died :(. Poor stink bug. I think misinformation regarding proper care and deliberate breeding of dysfunctional traits are two very crucial things to get rid of. I think exotic animals make awful pets. It should be penalized and banned. That, I believe, is cruelty. However it seems that an animal like a dog is happier alongside a person much of the time.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Are you talking about livestock?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No. You can justify livestock farming because it serves many utilitarian purposes for humanity and nature. I was talking about pet ownership, which is something that many people falling into the veganism-animal rights-ecoterrorism circles will never ever address.

      I disagree. It isn’t so black and white. Why do you think animals enter your home when it gets cold? Evolution is about survival not comfort. What about the evolutionary misfits who end up living a subpar life? I think it’s ok to help them. I take compassion on even the smallest bugs and try to take them outside. I rescued a stink bug that was stuck on a piece of tape. I carefully helped him for a good half hour. He was my friend and hung out on my shoulder. I came back the next day and he died :(. Poor stink bug. I think misinformation regarding proper care and deliberate breeding of dysfunctional traits are two very crucial things to get rid of. I think exotic animals make awful pets. It should be penalized and banned. That, I believe, is cruelty. However it seems that an animal like a dog is happier alongside a person much of the time.

      > I take compassion on even the smallest bugs and try to take them outside.
      The strangest videos I've come across is clips of frog and fish feedings. There are huge communities of people that get excited at the idea of bugs dying. There's videos of people killing bugs with hammers and it's very normalized, people justify it with strange excuses like "They don't feel pain so it doesn't matter". This borders psychopathy.
      > I think exotic animals make awful pets. It should be penalized and banned
      At one point I thought that it was just exotic animal ownership that was inhumane, but then I realized that every reason it isn't justifiable for a tiger is also unjustifiable for common house cats.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If you keep your kitty penned in the house, ok, that's wrong.
        Our cat can go outside whenever she wants. She's perfectly happy and has never run off. I should mention we didn't buy her, she came to our door as a kitten, begging for food.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >purely because you think it looks nice
    Animals were originally domesticated because of their utility
    >depriving animal of its nature
    Over thoiusands of years animals have evolved and It's now their nature to live with humans. Compare wolfs, ancient dogs and modern dogs. In the next hundreds years dogs will evolve to be even more "symbiotic" with humans

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on the animal. Dogs and cats already evolved to live alongside humans, their natural habitat is a human home.

    Many animals don't even care or realize they are in captivity, since their only need is getting enough food and not getting eaten. A pet lizzard or fish is better off than a wild one.

    I agree it's kind of fricked to keep some higher wild animals. Usually those try to escape, like some birds or be depressed in captivity like "exotic pets", monkeys, big cats etc. But generally, owning animals that should not be pets in the 1st place is not very normalized and there is now growing hostility towards "exotic pets".

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I agree unironically. Eating meat and hunting is fine though. Keeping a castrated mutt in a city is animal abuse.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What I don't get about house pet hysteria is that animals in the wild live very boring, and often miserable, lives, by human standards. They aren't people. They are massively dumber in a way that isn't totally comprehensible. There is no reason to believe they get "bored" in a fashion a human would.

    Their natural life involves a lot of staring at rocks and sleeping for hours a day. Now I think what is questionable is an animal without companionship that is a natural herd animal. What actually seems psychologically upsetting to them is not having a pal to sleep next to for 16 hours a day.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    who cares, cats and dogs can't even live in the wild anymore

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    For the same reason we eat meat: it's in our nature.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Animal husbandry was a major part of peoples education or as they used to call it upbringing. It’s more of a rite of passage that has been warped beyond it’s role of homesteading like most other things. It’s become a money sink and a huge business, there are more dogs in America than people for instance, and a lot of them cost a good fraction of what an average child would. It’s more of an institution at this point, recently it is anointed as the crown israeliteel of the early childhood consumer base, somewhat fading from the rather well established young adolescence consumer. Indoor beasts are becoming a bit antiquated to the ecologically minded individual, and I personally always found them as companions without utility and pointless hobbies, and causing me grave concern over their owner’s incongruent idea of leisure time.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    *kisses you on the lips*

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >There is simply no way to morally justify depriving an animal of its nature, disrupting its evolution, and forcing it to accept your company
    >implying orality is objective
    Wew lad

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >There is simply no way to morally justify depriving an animal of its nature, disrupting its evolution, and forcing it to accept your company purely because you think it looks nice
    This argument applies to humans as well.
    You're an anarcho primitivist in disguise like most vegans. Bomb government offices like Ted did, then I'll take you seriously.

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