This is the actual most confusing event in the bible

Why would Noah curse his grandson because of something his son did?
Why would Noah even feel it was necessary to impart an eternal curse over a guy seeing him naked one time? That seems pretty disproportionate
Furthermore, why is this curse anything but a hypocritical attack? Noah is the one who got drunk and fell asleep in public, it seems like it would be his fault Ham saw him naked.
This seems to just be an old man getting unreasonably mad over minor shit, why is it even worth including in Genesis?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It wasn't. You have a direct explanation in the actually Law of Moses. What does it say about Noah?
    >Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
    This is found in the Law three times.
    >A man shall not take his father’s wife, so that he does not uncover his father’s nakedness.
    >If a man lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness. Both must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
    >The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
    It's a euphemism, OP. Ham fricked his mother.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wouldn't his mom have been like 600 years old when that happened?
      also if they are talking about fricking Noah's unnamed wife what was the meaning of the bit about his brothers walking backwards with a blanket?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's mythology, do you think the story of Onan really happened or it was a parable meant to say that men must fulfill the obligations of Levirate marriages?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          he aprt about the men walking backward make it sound like they are talking literally about a man being naked.
          it's like if you said "Charlie held and kicked the bucket" to describe a man who died while carrying water.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Do you know that the story of Abimelech and Sarah was edited? The Torah was subject to all kinds of redactions and interpolations over the centuries. Whatever the original story was we probably do not have it, but I do not think it's a coincidence that there was a curse for sexual immorality. If it's tied to Noah's nakedness I would presume that it has to do with sleeping with his wife.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If the ages are literal and not shorthand for great stature

        the story is that after surviving the most awesome storm in human history Ham took it upon himself to rape an 800 year old man?

        Yeah maybe, it's a theory
        Why are you putting it like that though? Do floods make rape less likely? I'm not aware of that principle of human behavior

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >If the ages are literal and not shorthand for great stature
          what like 900 years old meant he was 6'2?
          Or whatever the maximum male height was back then?
          and the flood thing is just a weird character ark.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not literal stature, like representing a "great man"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Seems more like seeing or stripping your father naked was considered taboo and fricking your father's wife was framed in those terms.
      But Ham's story makes no mention of Noah's wife etc, it's presented exactly as if he saw him naked. It doesn't even mention uncovering him (he could have done that as a prank on his drunken father, to ridicule him.) There's no mention of his son Canaan's birth being abominable. Also explicit mentions of incest (Lot's daughters etc) occur throughout Genesis.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you had to summarize the story you'd say "And Ham saw his father's nakedness, therefore Noah cursed his son Canaan." That sounds like Ham impregnated Noah's wife and thus created an abomination, which is why the curse applies to Canaan and not Ham.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >it's a euphemism

      by that logic then it would follow that eve slept with the serpent and jonah went to hell for three days

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It was written during the mosaic period, which explains the discrepancy between cursing Ham and cursing Canaan. Canaan is the name of the patriarch and the nation of Canaan, the historic enemies of Israel. This curse was targeted at the nation.

    As for the severity, some speculate "seeing his nakedness" is a euphemism for actual or attempted homosexual rape.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the story is that after surviving the most awesome storm in human history Ham took it upon himself to rape an 800 year old man?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >some speculate "seeing his nakedness" is a euphemism for actual or attempted homosexual rape
      This actually makes sense.
      "Sleeping with your father's wife is like uncovering your father's nakedness" = "It's like fricking your father."
      "Noah was drunk in his tent and Ham saw his father's nakedness" = "He took advantage of him when he was drunk"

      And of course raping your father seems abominable enough that his whole line should be cursed. As for why it applied to Canaan and not Ham, probably something like how "you were your father's son and betrayed him, you became abominable, so your own firstborn son, your pride and joy, will become abominable to everyone"

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"you were your father's son and betrayed him, you became abominable, so your own firstborn son, your pride and joy, will become abominable to everyone"
        Ham's firstborn son was Cush.
        Canaan was the fourth.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It makes more sense once you understand that most of the OT is just books on israeli Law and customs at the time written by multiple authors to supplement the narraratives with the opinions on multiple religious and legal scribes and often used hyperbole to make their points more clear

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    incest baby

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put in your power, but I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: Israel is my firstborn son. 23 I said to you, “Let my son go that he may serve me.” But you refused to let him go; now I will kill your firstborn son.’ ”
    >24 On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the Lord met him and tried to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin, touched his feet with it, and said, “Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then that she said “a bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shakespeare said all the world's a stage, the men and women only players.
      By which he meant God already wrote the entire script and we are just delivering lines

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