Veneti tribe.

Ceasar, Commentarii de Bello Gallico:
>13 Not so the ships of the Gauls, for they were built and equipped in the following fashion. Their keels were considerably more flat than those of our own ships, that they might more easily weather shoals and ebb‑tide. Their prows were very lofty, and their sterns were similarly adapted to meet the force of waves and storms. The ships were made entirely of oak, to endure any violence and buffeting. The cross-pieces were beams •a foot thick, fastened with iron nails as thick as a thumb. The anchors were attached by iron chains instead of cables. Skins and pieces of leather finely finished were used instead of sails, either because the natives had no supply of flax and no knowledge of its use, or, more probably, because they thought that the mighty ocean-storms and hurricanes could not be ridden out, nor the mighty burden of their ships conveniently controlled, by means of sails. When our own fleet encountered these ships it proved its superiority only in speed and oarsmanship; in all other respects, having regard p157 to the locality and the force of the tempests, the others were more suitable and adaptable. For our ships could not damage them with the ram (they were so stoutly built), nor, by reason of their height, was it easy to hurl a pike, and for the same reason they were less readily gripped by grapnels. Moreover, when the wind began to rage and they ran before it, they endured the storm more easily, and rested in shoals more safely, with no fear of rocks or crags if left by the tide; whereas our own vessels could not but dread the possibility of all these chances.
How did they do it?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Like, was there a unrecorded gallic Archiemedies or something?

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They seem to be one of the most notorious ones in Gaul, so i wonder.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How did they do it?
    A lot of expertise accrued through trial and error.
    To be fair to the romans, Mediterranean and Atlantic shipbuilding traditions remained largely separated all the way to the napoleonic wars: you have bong captains who sailed with Nelson mentioning how most local shipping used highly specialized designs (different sail plans and hull geometries) that worked better in the Med than all rounder designs used to sail in every sea, but that were fricking shit the moment you went west of Gibraltar.
    I don't remember precisely what caused the difference. Something about the tides making the waves act differently.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I guess trial and error explains it, but surely a few geniuses born there possibly pushed the design, no?
      That's what i wonder.
      They must have had people like that in their tribe.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >muh geniuses
        My brother, why do you like sucking wieners?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because the trial and error thing dosen't fully explain it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_error

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And do random failed ship designs for who knows how many years, until you get it right?
            That doesn't seem realistic nor ideal for a tribe reliant on the sea.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Or..
            You add details gradually onto the design, that at no point stops.
            That's what this is:
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_and_error
            Every detail makes the ships more useful.
            You don't need a genius to do that.
            You just need time.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Some dude having a bright idea =/= exceptional intellects pushing the field foward.
            The whole concept of genius is 99% wienersucking.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The celts had incredibly skilled craftsmen. The romans copied a lot of their equipment, including the gladius. The main thing that allowed the romans to defeat them was much better logistics and military organization.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I would do things, perhaps even horrible things, to get a decent book or some papers on Gaulish or broader Celtic ship design and maritime history. Love Nords and Meds and their wonderful ships. Love Iberians for putting it all together for the age of discovery. But I haven't been able to find any decent material on the boats of the painted lads of ancient France and Britain. Rustles my jimmies tbh

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There could be a gaulish ship encased in anoxic mud waiting to be uncovered somewhere.
      Probably our best chance to learn more.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They were situated on one of the most ancient trade routes in the world at the time, the Atlantic coast.

    Tin from Britain would be transported down the coast to the Mediterranean, and would have gone right past them.

    Once you realize they had a maritime tradition going back into the early bronze age you put two and two together, ofc they would have developed such impressive vessels by the time of Caesar.

    They also probably were involved in the Amber road trade, as there are people also called Veneti in Poland and by the Adriatic sea.

    Strabo says unequivocally that these different Veneti are related, it's not a coincidence.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >as there are people also called Veneti in Poland and by the Adriatic sea.
      You are right.
      This is a later map, but they are there.
      Strange.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mmmmm...
        What is the connection here?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Did those dudes migrate to Poland or what?
          But what about the gallic ones then?
          Do they have a common origin?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not that anon, but I think both groups were if not Celtic then Celt-adjacent. I further suspect the Armoric Veneti to represent the ultimate source of these three groups. Some limited genetic investigations have lent support to this position, and it has been known for decades that the ancient people of that peninsula relied mostly on fish for their sustenance since the Neolithic period despite also farming.

            The Vistula Veneti were likely Balto-Slavic too. Who knows what language they spoke?

            But we know the Adriatic Veneti had written language, at it appears to be Celtic or at least related.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But we know the Adriatic Veneti had written language, at it appears to be Celtic or at least related.
            Venetic has been considered an italic language for decades.
            But then, italic languages are literally one branch over from celtic ones, so I guess it does mean it's related.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The connection between the Baltic and the Adriatic is called the Amber road.

          They used the many river systems of central Europe to move goods, namely amber, and they have since the bronze age. It would make sense that the people who used these trade routes would eventually settle on both it's end points.

          It's why you see things like Baltic amber being found in the tombs of Egyptian pharaohs.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >What is the connection here?
          The name is an exonim meaning "friendly", very appropriate for traders like most people bearing the name were.
          There are tribes with a similar name in pretty much every single branch of ie people.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The eastern Venedi are hypothesized to be the proto-Slavs, IIRC.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    By being actually terrible at conducting naval warfare and battles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-K%C3%A9bir

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Oof

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder if they crossed the Atlantic Ocean in these ships. Imagine Celtic trade all the way down the East of the Americas.

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