What are some good books that discus overcoming hedonism?

What are some good books that discus overcoming hedonism? I’ve always been a very diligent hard working person but on the other hand I can’t seem to escape being very hedonistic as well. I’ve read a lot of books on discipline which taught me how to work hard but I’ve never been able to overcome hedonism.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    First provide a reason to overcome hedonism.
    >because you get le higher!!
    Without using a subjective and arbitrary moral compass.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It’s not a matter of morality there are just concrete negative side effects to it that I experience as a individual.
      >empty pleasure that I know is empty and don’t actually enjoy but I’m physically addicted to it on some level
      >physically draining, being hungover from drinking, dehydrated from fapping or fricking or taking drugs which make me unable to think straight the following week are all physically devastating.
      >waste of money, alcohol, cigs and prostitutes aren’t cheap.
      >stuff like prostitutes makes it harder to connect with people because you start objectifying them.
      >spiritually draining, watching a sunset or having a meaningful conversation makes me deeply happy. Drinking in my room makes me a cynical life hater.

      https://i.imgur.com/soq07qr.jpeg

      Maybe Deleuze. That's obviously a leftfield suggestion, and I would never begrudge anyone for not wanting to slog through Deleuzian schizoprose, but I think he could be valuable for this reason: that he treats all practice as essentially based on desire, and so the question is not about hedonism versus some higher ethical principle of self-denial, but about practices of desire that dissipate it and force it into boring dead-ends (like turning every weekend into a stoned blur), and practices of desire that cultivate and intensify it (like making art or carefully exploring new zones of experience).

      Hm that might be a good suggestion actually. A lot of my hedonistic impulses come from a kind of desire to live or enjoy life. I suppose that cultivating a way to channel that energy into a consistent meaningful from would be very useful. Thanks.

      Look for books about Asceticism. Do you follow any religion? That would help in giving better advice on this.

      I am Christian but very secular and any interest I’ve had in Christianity is just philosophical. I’m fairly opposed to the idea of monks and the ascetic life since I feel it lives apart from the real world.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        *form

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like you gaslit yourself and/or are larping to gaslight others
        >this fun thing is no fun because... it just isnt ok

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >yeah alcohol is fun so I should drink it constantly, what do you mean it’s bad for my liver?
          >yeah I spend 40$ dollars on cigs a week but it’s my money so there’s nothing wrong with that
          >yeah I pay for the chance to treat another human live a literal piece of meat for me to frick, what do you mean this could negatively effect my ability to meaningfully connect?
          >yeah I spend the week fapping in my room instead of going to the park or a museum, what you mean that’s a empty lifestyle?

          I might be a hedonist but at least I can actually admit there are concrete downsides to it, you just seem to be coping about being one.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >lumps activities that are bad for your health together with activities that aren't to make you think fun is always bad
            Aaaaand now you reveal your dishonesty openly. Yep, it's a psyop thread.
            Dont forget to sage

            Not OP, but if you treat all kinds of fun as a single homogeneous category then I don't know what to tell you. Why does reading Lord Jim make me feel glad to be alive, while being engrossed in Darkest Dungeon for three hours leave me feeling shriveled up and empty when I step away from the screen?

            see

            [...]
            Sounds like a you problem, one that (again) you might not actually have and are just trying to push it on others here (gaslight).

            Not falling for it, glowie. Fun things are fun, get bent.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I didn’t say fun Is always bad, going to a amusement park is fun, talking to other people is fun, reading great books is fun.

            If you can’t see the difference between reading a nice book and jerking of to some Chinese cartoons on mental level then you’re just lying to yourself. If you want to burn your body away smoking and drinking as well as warping you view on others through masturbation and prostitution be my guest but I made this thread because I want to break out of that lifestyle.

            Sonetos by Quevedo.

            Thanks for the recommendation.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're not a very smart person.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >no elaboration
            Phew! Guess he's just trolling, then!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            By the way, I'm not that same anon. Cool your hubris.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not OP, but if you treat all kinds of fun as a single homogeneous category then I don't know what to tell you. Why does reading Lord Jim make me feel glad to be alive, while being engrossed in Darkest Dungeon for three hours leave me feeling shriveled up and empty when I step away from the screen?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I am Christian but very secular and any interest I’ve had in Christianity is just philosophical. I’m fairly opposed to the idea of monks and the ascetic life since I feel it lives apart from the real world.

        Introduction to the Spiritual Life, by Brant Pitre. It is aimed to laypeople. Later you can study Neothomist manuals.
        To defeat hedonism, you need to defeat it for a higher reason. You will need to abandon secularism and think about what is the good for a Christian.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I am Christian but
        lol
        the other guy took a while to tell you're a psyopping paid ~~*demoralizer*~~ but I saw it immediately at this line

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you think that if stop doing the things you enjoy, that you'll suddenly become a better person and start to enjoy the things that they enjoy? it doesnt work that way mate. sorry. i wish it did but it dont

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ascetic practice is necessary to become a better person

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          that's precisely how it works.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I enjoy books, the company of others and nature on a deep level, I enjoy alcohol, prostitutes and drugs on a surface level. I want to figure out how to get rid of my surface level pleasures so I can focus on the ones that make me fulfilled.

          Literally why would you want to over come hedonism? Discipline is only worth while if it increases the total amount of hedonism you can engage in across time. homies really out there like "nah, I don't want to feel good, I'd rather be bored or miserable more often". Give your head a shake.

          By your logic I should just hook myself up to a constant wienertail of drugs and and have a robot jerk me off. If you only concern yourself with maximum pleasure constantly you’re just going to end up completely empty. I’m having that exact issue which is why I made this thread.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >By your logic I should just hook myself up to a constant wienertail of drugs and and have a robot jerk me off. If you only concern yourself with maximum pleasure constantly you’re just going to end up completely empty. I’m having that exact issue which is why I made this thread
            You appeal to the negative effect of your proposed scenario as resulting in "complete emptiness". Thus, you measure the shallow and brief (yet admittedly intense) pleasure of the contemptible drug addled porn fiend, and find the end result lacking. Yet, the calculation is made along the very lines which a hedonist would urge! Truly, some pleasures are intense but have diminishing returns, thus, a wise hedonist looks to the sustainability of his pleasure and looks to the grand calculation of his while life. To be sure, such a lengthy calculation is subject to error, thus certain rules of thumb might be found advantageous, such as the integrity of the human spirit, which your scenario annihilated, and with it, the true capacity for the hedonist to attain his aim.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not that anon.
            Bentham Utilitarianism is a trash "philosophy" not fit for human beings.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not an argument

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If you only concern yourself with maximum pleasure constantly you’re just going to end up completely empty.
            Why? Prove it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      fpbp and still not refuted by op

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Again not trying to say it’s a fundamental wrong on a moral level and never claimed it was. I am just aware of the fact there are downsides on a both physical and mental level that I personally want to break free off.

        >activities that le heckin incel chuds do: SOUL CRUSHING!
        >activities that promote trans rights: those make me feel good!
        hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yep seems legit, totally not dishonest

        Jesus this board went schizophrenic since last I posted. im happy you want to spend your life jerking of Chinese cartoons and smoking weed but I personally don’t so I asked for book recommendations.

        >I am Christian but
        lol
        the other guy took a while to tell you're a psyopping paid ~~*demoralizer*~~ but I saw it immediately at this line

        Sorry I was raised in a secular Christian family and never bothered officially leaving the church. Guess I better put up a Isreal flag on the wall.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I'm a Christian, what book do I read to lead a good life???????????????
          Do you see how fricking dumb this psyop sounds?
          If you're gonna LARP go with something believable

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Do you understand the meaning of the word secular?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ok i'll take the LARP at face value and answer your thread then: read the Bible.
            There you go, thread over

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I might, but then again a lot of the bible hinges on a spirality regarding god that I don’t really have. Again to clarify, being a secular Christian just means I go to church occasionally and pay a part of my income to it, i just call myself a secular Christian to clarify I have some affinity and knowledge of the church.

            Just ignore the troll. He/she/xir/whatever is not exactly being helpful

            The solution is in religion. Prayers and time tested advice that allowed old monks to reach a higher level than you are expecting to reach

            Is there any practical religious books written that just focus on methods of overcoming hedonism? Again I’m not especially spiritual but I can’t deny that monks and so on are impressively disciplined

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >a spirality regarding god that I don’t really have.
            Isn't the whole fricking point of this thread to get that "spirality"? The frick?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            OP is looking for things that make him look smart.
            Watching a sports match is fun, but it doesn't make him look smart.
            Reading some pseudo-intellectual midwit book will make him look smart.

            He's a midwit, anon. Midwits NEED to look smart at all times.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sorry I meant to type “spirituality” and I meant I that the concept of god and Jesus don’t evoke any deeper fundamental feelings inside me that could drive me to become acetic. I’m more driven by just a knowledge that there exists a deeper facet to life which I mostly discovered through reading.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're driven by profound-sounding shit that makes you go "woooahh that's cool" when you read it.
            It's hedonism. You place it on a higher pedestal than watching a baseball game because you look smarter while you do it, but it's still hedonism.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Right there’s no obviously no difference between watching sports and reading something that makes you appreciate life on a deeper level.

            When I read a beautifully written story I don’t get the same feeling as the when I watch sports. There’s a fundamental difference to it, I’ll think about a good book for months if not years, I’ll remember parts of it when I’m looking at a sunset or in a museum, books give new insights and feelings to life. When I watch a football player score a goal I might cheer for a few seconds and forget about it three days from then. Sure you can argue that both are forms of pleasure but at that point you’re just arguing semantics because the distinction is so obvious.

            >Is there any practical religious books written that just focus on methods of overcoming hedonism? Again I’m not especially spiritual but I can’t deny that monks and so on are impressively disciplined
            It is necessary to have a foundation in order to start working on it. And it will be necessary to make you more spiritual to do so.
            For you to beat "pleasure is the good" you need another good.

            [...]
            You should work on it. To the point where asceticism is looked at not as an end in itself but as something that you practice in order to get closer to God.

            >For you to beat "pleasure is the good" you need another good.
            that makes sense but does that good really have to be god? I don’t feel any kind of profoundness or deep emotions when thinking of god and I don’t know how I could possibly develop that sense of god as my personal good. I do feel have that sense of a higher good regarding a lot of books and philosophy but even so I feel like I can’t practically overcome my hedonism for its sake.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes ok cool you just confirmed what I posted. You're looking for profound-founding shit because it tickles your midwit bone

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I am looking for books that “tickle my midwit bone” rather than baseline pleasures. I genuinely wonder why you read if you don’t enjoy or get insights from the books you read? Are you just trying to look smart?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Tickling your midwit bone is a baseline pleasure.
            All you're doing here is purely hedonistic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If can’t tell the difference between reading books and stuff like watching sports in terms of what degree of lower and higher pleasure you haven’t read a book in your life and have no business calling people midwits.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You have a subjectively low view of sports, and a subjectively high view of books.
            You are very biased and don't realize it

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sports are good in their own right, I’m not above watching football and boxing in my off time. But I’m speaking about what kind of pleasure I derive from each on a personal level. For me certain books are so sublime that I still get certain insights from them as I go through life years after reading them. The most a sport game has done for me is put a smile on my face. I’m not implying sports are on the same level as me drinking or fricking prostitutes but it’s certainly more fleeting and less meaningful for me. If the inverse is true for you then I’m glad for you.

            Confessions by St. Augustine helped. It's a constant battle, though. There's nothing wrong with improoving and progression, don't mind the trolls.
            Confessions lead me to at least confess about my problems via expression in song, even if to the trees, birds, cats, and myself, and that's more based than Plato or Socrates or who-ever abolishin poets from the state for making all the girls horny, even if that might be true, whixh it probably isn't, because the source is the world-wide web. Get rekt. Confess, it doesn't have to be to a priest, just say it or sing it out loud and feel the weight lighten, then make small changes to the hedonistic lifestyle one by one.

            I suppose confessing could help, I live in a mostly Protestant country but I’ll look for a confession service, I feel like actually confessing to another person would at the very least ease the burden of my self disgust in certain aspects. Failing that I might just confess to myself when I’m alone like you said.

            >enjoying yourself is le bad
            I hate this reddit mindset

            How do you struggle to see the difference between the things I’ve described in this thread and just generally enjoying yourself?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I get to decide what is hedonism and what isn't
            no you dont

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I get to decide what is meaningful for me and not. I’m not calling sports hedonism, I’m just saying they aren’t especially meaningful to me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What's funny is that sports are actually a lot less hedonistic than everything you've proposed so far.

            Being a fan, following your local team through thick and thin, sharing the moments, being fascinated by the statistics, these are all experiences that are much higher than owning a product and pulling a sòyface when you consoome it

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Again, I don’t see sports as hedonism. I’m discussing what has more meaning for me personally. Again, I’m not saying books are inherently more meaningful than sports, I’m saying they’re more meaningful for me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Then just frickin read books? You're still just "having fun" which, as you put it, is LE BAD

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Then what you can also do is to write about your specific do on hedonism. Instead of trying to be ímpressed about historical hedonists, you can contribute to the literary world by giving your take on the lifestyle. Buy a small notebook and a pen, handle those. Those have a beginning and an end. Digital documents can go on for way too long and the light is tiring to the eyes. There are books to read, yes, Trainspotting and Trainspotting T2 or 'Porno' by Irvine Welsh are impressionable, and writing and reading can go hand in hand. The examples are more 'over the top so that it seems extreme' but they áre the extreme examples of what hedonism leads to, ánd they're contemporary.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks for the reply. To relate, I see my hedonistic side as a dark counter: when it reaches 100, I explode or retreat into myself. I have to keep myself healthy, and telling (the confession) the world about 'what's out there' is my way of giving back. Even if I larp that God is recording me as if what I say or sing out loud gets logged into 'His Database', and not singing my confessions into a microphone. It's weird. Yes, I've talked to people with bird's names. Birds also sing. Anyway, it's a win-win, the stone where my heart is turns to flesh when I sing and I get to improve my oral language skills. I also confessed to a service some time, that made me feel like there are still people out there who care. It's like Burger King and Nike combined: 'Do It Your Way'. Anyhow, best of luck with the becoming a kinder human. Wanting to improve is laudable in itself!

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            (and if I place the hedonistic counter on a number line, with +100 being megahedonistic, at -100 I'll be mega kind, and at 0 I'm at a balance. It's a feeling.)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hm I can kind of see that, I usually go between periods of extreme hedonism and extreme displine. Usually when the hedonistic tendency's get way to bad I feel compelled to make efforts to correct it. Though I’ve never really explored the god or singing aspects.

            Then just frickin read books? You're still just "having fun" which, as you put it, is LE BAD

            Again I’ve repeated several times through the thread that not all form of enjoying yourself is bad. It’s just the ones I’ve mentioned with concrete down sides and cheap pleasures like alcohol or prostitution that are bad.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            oi oi whats wrong with shaggin a workin lady

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nothing morally I’d say (unless she’s trafficked) but it does ruin your perception of other people eventually. I often find myself seeing them as just sex toys once I buy one. That kind of thinking slowly but surely makes it’s way into regular life.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not OP, but a 'working lady' and a 'prostitute' are different lifestyles. One works for an income while the other sells sex, and while the while the dating game is utter chaos to me, it's different dating a woman who holds down work in a profession than visiting the red light district. I don't know though, I haven't used the red light district in that manner. But this is how it seems as an outsider.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think he’s making a joke. Working lady is a saying for prostitute.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I know the slang for the term, but if you can't into literalist jokes then you're too much of a hedonist and should start on reverti g the coomerbrain right now.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            are you legitimately moronic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nah, I'll be in bed on time again this evening. Thanks.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not doing you much good, jeeeesus

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ???

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know, are you using expensive words when easy ones will do? Legitimately? Really?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            newbie

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It is bad for your soul.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think that should be the priority. If you believe in God, if you are a Christian, you should work to deepen your love for God. That's the Greatest Commandment.

            With that, with the help of prayers and with grace you can purify yourself of hedonism. Of course, this is not something instantaneous, it is a work that lasts a very long time.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Is there any practical religious books written that just focus on methods of overcoming hedonism? Again I’m not especially spiritual but I can’t deny that monks and so on are impressively disciplined
            It is necessary to have a foundation in order to start working on it. And it will be necessary to make you more spiritual to do so.
            For you to beat "pleasure is the good" you need another good.

            Sorry I meant to type “spirituality” and I meant I that the concept of god and Jesus don’t evoke any deeper fundamental feelings inside me that could drive me to become acetic. I’m more driven by just a knowledge that there exists a deeper facet to life which I mostly discovered through reading.

            You should work on it. To the point where asceticism is looked at not as an end in itself but as something that you practice in order to get closer to God.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >For you to beat "pleasure is the good" you need another good.
            Sounds like anything except hedonism is gaslighting.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Just ignore the troll. He/she/xir/whatever is not exactly being helpful

          The solution is in religion. Prayers and time tested advice that allowed old monks to reach a higher level than you are expecting to reach

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >arbitrary moral compass

      provide a reason to be hedonistic, without subjectivity. Your case cant stand under its own logic, coomer

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ok: it's the natural way of things

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Naturalistic fallacy. Boom. You’re toast, kiddo.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          lol. it is absolutely not the "natural way". Hedonism only exists due to economic excess and class based societies, and later on the industrial revolution

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lmao you really think a pre-historic tribe has time to think about philosophical bullshit while it's trying to not starve to death?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >lol. it is absolutely not the "natural way"
            Yes it is. The entire natural world works only because hedonism is real and true.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What do you mean by hedonism is real and true?

            There is no particular reason to favor one over the other. It is personal preference. You can even have a nice day if you want. Nihilism is true.

            If Nihilism is true, why does it bother you so much that people don't want to live self destructive, hedonistic lives?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >What do you mean by hedonism is real and true?
            It is the baseline by which all living things operate. Anything else is a form of illness. The most basic things imaginable such as hunger, pain, fear, etc, are hedonistic tools used by evolution to guide animals towards successfully surviving and reproducing.

            >If Nihilism is true, why does it bother you so much that people don't want to live self destructive, hedonistic lives?
            Incoherent question. If dogs are mammals, why is there a purple monkey on Pluto?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Then what's actually important is survival and reproducing. Whether you have pleasure is irrelevant.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It is the baseline by which all living things operate. Anything else is a form of illness. The most basic things imaginable such as hunger, pain, fear, etc, are hedonistic tools used by evolution to guide animals towards successfully surviving and reproducing.
            There are species of animals that don't have a nervous system or a brain and don't feel pain.
            There are also other living beings who are not animals who don't feel pleasure or pain.

            Also, animals are not the wise masters we should look for on how to live. It is not because animals do something that we should emulate them. Animals behave hedonistically doesn't mean hedonism is right.

            >Incoherent question. If dogs are mammals, why is there a purple monkey on Pluto?
            It is not incoherent.
            You argued for nihilism, but at the same time you are clearly bothered that some people would prefer a non self-destructive life. You hold it as inferior to the self-destructive life and you have been spamming this thread defending hedonism.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Animals behave hedonistically doesn't mean hedonism is right.
            Why behave any way else? Any other way won't make you feel as good, so why do it?

            >It is not incoherent.
            Yes it is. It makes absolutely no sense in multiple ways.

            >You argued for nihilism, but at the same time you are clearly bothered
            I am? I'm not, but you can imagine I am if you like. Even so, there is no contradiction there.

            >that some people would prefer a non self-destructive life.
            How is hedonism self-destructive? Everyone in the entire world is living hedonistically, and we seem to get along well enough overall.

            > You hold it as inferior to the self-destructive life
            When did I say that? By all means, have a nice day if you want to, but I never said that self-destruction was preferable to continued existence. How would you feel pleasure if you stopped existing?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Why behave any way else? Any other way won't make you feel as good, so why do it?
            Because we are rational beings who have a soul.
            You are coming from the assumption that animals are the examples to follow. You are basically thinking that abandoning rationality and living the life of the senses is the right way to live. Even from a hedonistic point of view this is not true.

            >Yes it is. It makes absolutely no sense in multiple ways.
            >I am? I'm not, but you can imagine I am if you like. Even so, there is no contradiction there.
            >How is hedonism self-destructive? Everyone in the entire world is living hedonistically, and we seem to get along well enough overall.
            >When did I say that? By all means, have a nice day if you want to, but I never said that self-destruction was preferable to continued existence. How would you feel pleasure if you stopped existing?

            You have been spamming this thread with samegayging and insulting OP for wanting to not behave hedonistically for an entire day.
            If you are such a nihilist as you claimed to be why does it bother you that others don't want to behave hedonistically?

            You have argued
            >There is no particular reason to favor one over the other.
            But you have spent over a day trying to defend one kind of lifestyle.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Because we are rational beings
            And our capacity for reason is best used to maximize our pleasure.
            >Who have a soul
            Souls do not exist.
            >You have been spamming this thread with samegayging and insulting OP for wanting to not behave hedonistically for an entire day.
            I joined this thread like an hour ago. Besides that, OP does behave hedonistically. You behave hedonistically. Everyone that exists is a hedonist, including ascetic Christian monks that pray to their fake god every day. All they're doing is banking on supposed infinite afterlife pleasure.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >And our capacity for reason is best used to maximize our pleasure.
            Let's go back to the principles.
            So, you would agree that animals aren't the masters on how to live life, since they don't have the use of reason?

            >Souls do not exist.
            Yes, they do.

            >I joined this thread like an hour ago.
            Both of us know you didn't.

            >Besides that, OP does behave hedonistically. You behave hedonistically. Everyone that exists is a hedonist, including ascetic Christian monks that pray to their fake god every day. All they're doing is banking on supposed infinite afterlife pleasure.
            You know very well what OP is meaning about a hedonistic lifestyle. What OP means is a life of seeking the pleasure of the senses.
            You are defending this kind of life. You are even using animals as your role models.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >So, you would agree that animals aren't the masters on how to live life
            I didn't say they were. I said that they were hedonistic, which means hedonism is the default way to go about things, and as such real and true.

            >Yes, they do.
            Prove it.

            >Both of us know you didn't.
            I did. Cope.

            >You know very well what OP is meaning about a hedonistic lifestyle. What OP means is a life of seeking the pleasure of the senses.
            Which is a perfectly fine way to live life.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I didn't say they were.
            Yes, you did. And as we can see here:
            >I said that they were hedonistic, which means hedonism is the default way to go about things, and as such real and true.
            And you did it again. Basically, you are saying "animals are hedonistic so we should be hedonistic too".

            >I did. Cope.
            You didn't. You have been spamming this thread for a while,

            >Which is a perfectly fine way to live life.
            You didn't answer my point.
            You are just engaging in a fallacy where you change the meaning of hedonism depending on the situation

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Someone who sits around all day jerking off and eating ice cream is not very likely to survive and reproduce.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Self-destruction and hedonism are not related to one another in the slightest, you are moronic for thinking they have any correlation

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why would that be a natural way of things?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lmao you really think a pre-historic tribe has time to think about philosophical bullshit while it's trying to not starve to death?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's not a good answer. Or at least it shows a lack of philosophical maturity.
            What is human nature in your view?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >What is human nature in your view?
            What millions of years of evolution decided works best

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You are trying to escape the question. Explain what is human nature, please.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            frick off moron

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            We need to examine your theory. For that, you need to explain what is human nature, which you didn't.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >We
            It's just you and your dishonest is so plain you're not convincing anybody

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why would it be dishonest to try to understand your theory?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Actually it's also me now. Explain your theory please

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >t. Coomer

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >don't be hedonistic because... PEOPLE WILL ASSIGN LABELS TO YOU!!!!
        that's the best you got for why hedonism is bad?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Right? Like, does any of this truly matter when we're just, like, stardust, man? *hits bong*

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he still can't explain why hedonism is bad
            >goes on to assume hedonism = doing drugs and other unhealthy shit
            mad moronic yo

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >mad moronic yo
            ong bruh no cap

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I did it because I knew you'd focus on it and ignore my argument, because you can't argue for shit lmao

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I have bested thee in intellectual battle, my good sir! Excelsior!
            christ what a homosexual "lmao"

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [post]

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe Deleuze. That's obviously a leftfield suggestion, and I would never begrudge anyone for not wanting to slog through Deleuzian schizoprose, but I think he could be valuable for this reason: that he treats all practice as essentially based on desire, and so the question is not about hedonism versus some higher ethical principle of self-denial, but about practices of desire that dissipate it and force it into boring dead-ends (like turning every weekend into a stoned blur), and practices of desire that cultivate and intensify it (like making art or carefully exploring new zones of experience).

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Interesting. Any specific book where he writes about this?

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Look for books about Asceticism. Do you follow any religion? That would help in giving better advice on this.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Sounds like a you problem, one that (again) you might not actually have and are just trying to push it on others here (gaslight).

    Not falling for it, glowie. Fun things are fun, get bent.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the previous psyop he deleted, for clarity's sake if you enter this shit slide thread late

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        Sounds like a you problem, one that (again) you might not actually have and are just trying to push it on others here (gaslight).

        Not falling for it, glowie. Fun things are fun, get bent.

        I deleted it because it needed edits

        Not OP, but if you treat all kinds of fun as a single homogeneous category then I don't know what to tell you. Why does reading Lord Jim make me feel glad to be alive, while being engrossed in Darkest Dungeon for three hours leave me feeling shriveled up and empty when I step away from the screen?

        ; I can't help myself. Also, the fact that you call it a 'problem' suggests to me that you wouldn't get the same experience out of Lord Jim in the first place, and that all you know is different quantities of dopamine. I'm definitely not someone who opposes desire as a principle for action, as I explained here

        https://i.imgur.com/soq07qr.jpeg

        Maybe Deleuze. That's obviously a leftfield suggestion, and I would never begrudge anyone for not wanting to slog through Deleuzian schizoprose, but I think he could be valuable for this reason: that he treats all practice as essentially based on desire, and so the question is not about hedonism versus some higher ethical principle of self-denial, but about practices of desire that dissipate it and force it into boring dead-ends (like turning every weekend into a stoned blur), and practices of desire that cultivate and intensify it (like making art or carefully exploring new zones of experience).

        .

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sonetos by Quevedo.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >activities that le heckin incel chuds do: SOUL CRUSHING!
    >activities that promote trans rights: those make me feel good!
    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yep seems legit, totally not dishonest

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Literally what are you talking about? Who do you imagine you're responding to?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Explain what is bad about hedonism without bringing in arbitrary guilt-trips from other ideologies.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Hedonism goes for the short-term dopamine fix instead of cultivating more complex and rewarding forms of desire. I admit that this is an argument that can only really feel convincing if you've personally experienced those deeper forms of desire. But if you're on a literature board, then surely you will have. You'll know why reading about men locked in moral conflict on the seas of Java touches a deeper and more exhilarating nerve than switching off your brain and sinking into YouTube drama videos. You'll know why reading DH Lawrence will give you a colder, more real, and more human sense of eroticism than watching Sasha Grey get to work in some rented LA mansion. You'll know why your soul hungers for the nourishment of the first kind of pleasure, and simply settles for the oblivion of the other. If you've never had an experience corresponding to what I'm talking about, then I'm afraid my powers of explanation aren't sufficient to fill you in. But I can assure you that this has nothing to do with morality or ideology, and everything to do with the unignorable quality of experience.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >more complex and rewarding forms of desire
            Still hedonism.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I understand exactly what you’re talking about but that’s exactly the issue. I know there are greater pleasures in life but I feel unable to break free of surface level hedonism. I read books that inspire me to live the human experience to its fullest extent but I don’t know how to break free of the convince of basic hedonism. I want to travel the world and experience the grandeur of nature or form deep meaningful connections with people but I have no idea where to start so I end up just falling back into cheap manufactured thrills. I’m desperate to break away from it on a spiritual level but I don’t have to tools on a practical level.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            *convenience

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > I know there are greater pleasures in life
            Do you? Maybe they're made-up bullshit. Why would there be anything more than surface-level pleasures when humans are literally just dumbass monkeys?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not that anon. Humans are a different species than monkeys.

            >For you to beat "pleasure is the good" you need another good.
            Sounds like anything except hedonism is gaslighting.

            Nope.
            Hedonism is a result of a lack of education in the good.
            But when you want to clear yourself of this, you need to know what is the real good.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Humans are a different species than monkeys.
            This statement is wrong in multiple ways.

            >Hedonism is a result of a lack of education in the good.
            Why would anyone need "education" to know what is good? Pleasure is obviously good to everyone without any need for supposed "education", so why should anyone be convinced of a "good" that is not pleasure?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Humans can't interbreed with monkeys. We are a different species.
            We have a fairly large different when it comes to morality in that we have rationality and a soul.

            >Why would anyone need "education" to know what is good?
            Because what is good is not obvious at first glance. To know what is good, it is necessary to study the nature of reality. Otherwise you fall in the error of believing that if it feels good, it is good.

            >Pleasure is obviously good to everyone without any need for supposed "education", so why should anyone be convinced of a "good" that is not pleasure?
            Would you say the pleasure that someone feels when smoking crack is a good?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Humans can't interbreed with monkeys. We are a different species.
            Again, wrong in multiple ways.
            1. Humans are not a species. Humans are a genus.
            2. Monkeys are not a species, they're an infraorder.
            3. Reproductive incompatability is not necessary for populations to be considered "different species". Many species can interbreed with eachother and produce fertile offspring.

            >We have a fairly large different when it comes to morality in that we have rationality
            Morality is not rational whatsoever. It is emotional sentimentality.
            >and a soul.
            Not a real thing. Even if it was, no reason to believe that non-human primates lack them.

            >Because what is good is not obvious at first glance
            It isn't? Prove it.

            >Otherwise you fall in the error of believing that if it feels good, it is good.
            Why is that an error? It's actually tautologically true that whatever feels good is good.

            >Would you say the pleasure that someone feels when smoking crack is a good?
            Yes. Why wouldn't it be? The only way you could argue that smoking crack is NOT good is that smoking crack too much could cause you to die, in which case you wouldn't feel any more pleasure, and if you were moderate with your crack use, or didn't use crack at all, you could experience overall more pleasure than if you did die of a crack overdose;.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Morality is not rational whatsoever. It is emotional sentimentality.
            I would like you to prove this statement.
            But you didn't quite grasp my point. Humans having rationality and a soul leads to humans having a completely different way of living than animals.

            >Why is that an error? It's actually tautologically true that whatever feels good is good.
            Suppose a psychopath feels pleasure in killing people. Is killing people good?

            >Yes. Why wouldn't it be? The only way you could argue that smoking crack is NOT good is that smoking crack too much could cause you to die, in which case you wouldn't feel any more pleasure, and if you were moderate with your crack use, or didn't use crack at all, you could experience overall more pleasure than if you did die of a crack overdose;.
            The pleasure one feels while smoking crack leads him to having a worse life. To become a worse person, an unhappier person and so on.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I would like you to prove this statement.
            Do you oppose raping babies because you find it intuitively repulsive or because you read a logic puzzle in a book?

            >But you didn't quite grasp my point. Humans having rationality and a soul
            Animals have rationality to various extents and souls don't exist.
            > leads to humans having a completely different way of living than animals.
            Humans do not have a completely different way of living to other animals. We do nothing they do not do, we're just better at it.

            >Suppose a psychopath feels pleasure in killing people. Is killing people good?
            For him, yeah. "Goodness" only exists subjectively.

            >The pleasure one feels while smoking crack leads him to having a worse life.
            How is his life worse if he's having a blast on crack?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >because you find it intuitively repulsive or because you read a logic puzzle in a book?
            You didn't prove that morality is sentimental with your example. You only showed that certain acts are considered disgusting.
            For a conservative Arab man, homosexual behavior is disgusting. For a San Franciscan liberal, homosexual behavior is not disgusting. Is homosexuality moral or immoral?
            >Humans do not have a completely different way of living to other animals. We do nothing they do not do, we're just better at it.
            We do plenty of things they don't do. For example, humans can pray. Animals can't. Humans can create stories of fiction like Lord of the Rings. Animals can't.

            >For him, yeah. "Goodness" only exists subjectively.
            Suppose someone feels bad about feeling physical pleasure. Would you say in this case, physical pleasure is bad?

            >How is his life worse if he's having a blast on crack?
            Think of it like this.
            The pleasure he is having while smoking crack ends up overriding his rationality and leading him to making worse decisions that lead to an increasingly worse life. Even from a hedonistic point of view.
            Wouldn't you agree that this pleasure he is feeling is destroying him?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You didn't prove that morality is sentimental with your example.
            Yes I did, which is why you refused to actually provide an answer. Do you oppose raping babies because, A, you have an intuitive, emotional, sentimental opposition to it, or B, because of a logical formula?

            "In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remarked, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary way of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when of a sudden I am surprised to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not. This change is imperceptible; but is, however, of the last consequence. For as this ought, or ought not, expresses some new relation or affirmation, it's necessary that it should be observed and explained; and at the same time that a reason should be given, for what seems altogether inconceivable, how this new relation can be a deduction from others, which are entirely different from it. But as authors do not commonly use this precaution, I shall presume to recommend it to the readers; and am persuaded, that this small attention would subvert all the vulgar systems of morality, and let us see, that the distinction of vice and virtue is not founded merely on the relations of objects, nor is perceived by reason."
            -David Hume

            > You only showed that certain acts are considered disgusting.
            And people oppose that which they find disgusting.

            >For a conservative Arab man, homosexual behavior is disgusting. For a San Franciscan liberal, homosexual behavior is not disgusting. Is homosexuality moral or immoral?
            It is moral for the San Franciscan liberal and immoral for the conservative Arab. That's pretty obvious.

            >We do plenty of things they don't do.
            Only as manifestations of abilities they possess.

            >. For example, humans can pray. Animals can't. Humans can create stories of fiction like Lord of the Rings. Animals can't.
            Humans have better symbolic language capabilities than most animals. Animals do, however, have symbolic language.

            >Suppose someone feels bad about feeling physical pleasure. Would you say in this case, physical pleasure is bad?
            For them, yes.

            >The pleasure he is having while smoking crack ends up overriding his rationality and leading him to making worse decisions that lead to an increasingly worse life. Even from a hedonistic point of view.
            Wouldn't you agree that this pleasure he is feeling is destroying him?
            Maybe, but what's wrong with destruction?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Humans have better symbolic language capabilities than most animals. Animals do, however, have symbolic language.
            Animals can't pray or tell fictional stories. Those are two things that humans can do but animals can't. You said animals can do anything humans do.

            >For them, yes.
            Then, that disproves your claim we should always search for physical pleasure like animals do?

            >Maybe, but what's wrong with destruction?
            You didn't answer the question. From a hedonistic point of view, wouldn't you say that pleasure he felt was a negative, since it has led to a decline in pleasure?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Hedonism goes for the short-term dopamine fix instead of cultivating more complex and rewarding forms of desire.
            That's still hedonism, stupid b***h.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >more complex and rewarding forms of desire
            Still hedonism.

            >Hedonism goes for the short-term dopamine fix instead of cultivating more complex and rewarding forms of desire.
            That's still hedonism, stupid b***h.

            It's really funny how 'anti-hedonists' complain that hedonism is bad basically because it doesn't lead to enough pleasure or satisfaction.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It likely has more to do with the fluctuations. For example drugs and alcohol make you feel terrible when you stop and there’s the diminishing returns as tolerance builds. What people are searching for are things that give them a continual, steady amount of ‘satisfaction’ which require effort and work.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There is no particular reason to favor one over the other. It is personal preference. You can even have a nice day if you want. Nihilism is true.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Confessions by St. Augustine helped. It's a constant battle, though. There's nothing wrong with improoving and progression, don't mind the trolls.
    Confessions lead me to at least confess about my problems via expression in song, even if to the trees, birds, cats, and myself, and that's more based than Plato or Socrates or who-ever abolishin poets from the state for making all the girls horny, even if that might be true, whixh it probably isn't, because the source is the world-wide web. Get rekt. Confess, it doesn't have to be to a priest, just say it or sing it out loud and feel the weight lighten, then make small changes to the hedonistic lifestyle one by one.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Or just start playing the game, and stop pretending we're not players - Shakespeare. Oh no, that was 'All the world's a stage, and we're all actors'. It comes down to the same idea though, they're just for different times and spaces.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >enjoying yourself is le bad
    I hate this reddit mindset

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You should stop spamming this thread.
      In some ways, it might help OP since you bump his thread. But you don't really contribute.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >since you bump his thread
        l o l
        o
        l

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >He is actually the wise one here; he's a sage of some sorts.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >enjoying yourself is le bad
      If this is what you got from OP, you're unironically reddit-wit tier. Adding "le" in the beginning doesn't make you heckin based, homosexual

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that reading books was considered hedonism in the past.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks for the reminder. I can imagine that for a society which values trees as living things more than they value trees as carriers of information. It's good to place concepts in a way in the discussing as to transcend the current frame.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Test

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nice thread OP
    lots of angry projection you have caused

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Read Epicurus. Hedonism doesn't need to mean unrestrained, thoughtless pleasure or avoiding effort.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Epicurus was an epicurean, not a hedonist. That’s the whole point anon..

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I fell for the hedonism meme and never went to any partys in my teens and early 20s because I thought alcohol and weed was degenerate or whatever. Now I regret squandering my youth

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I somehow doubt this is a true story. Why are you spamming this thread with pro-Hedonism propaganda?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Op here, I started partying since I was 16, I’m pretty sure I developed into a high functional alcoholic by the end. Sure I fricked some girls and tried some drugs and it was fun and all but at the end of the day all I have to show for it now is nostalgia and a tendacy for self destructive behaviour.

      Trust me I experienced all that and all I want now is to be free of it. It’s fun when you’re a teen and it’s new and exciting but now it’s just regret, thin wallets and hangovers.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I went to a few college parties and they were all the lamest shit. The best parts were just talking to people who are mostly sober, because they're far more interesting.

      The drunk people were generally compensating for the fact that they lacked substance by doing crazy things that would ruin their lives.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There’s nothing wrong with having pleasure in your life it just shouldn’t define you or be the most important thing. Don’t be an ascetic pussy but realize chasing pleasure too much can have adverse effects and aim to work hard and be a creative.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Midwit take

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Literally why would you want to over come hedonism? Discipline is only worth while if it increases the total amount of hedonism you can engage in across time. homies really out there like "nah, I don't want to feel good, I'd rather be bored or miserable more often". Give your head a shake.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      stop conflating our hard-wired preference for pleasure with hedonism as a lifestyle.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You are samegayging too hard in this thread

        That was my first post in this thread. And Hedonism is the prioritization of pleasure in one's life. Erect not the strawman of shortsightedness to vanquish this foe, but hark, for you confess your own culpability in its conceit!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are samegayging too hard in this thread

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A book won't help you. Here's the fastest way to quit all the things which you believe are bad for you: put yourself in an environment where it's impossible for you to do those things. Then it only comes down to a matter of how badly you want it.

    So far you've mentioned:
    >drinking
    >drugs
    >smoking
    >whoring
    >jerking off

    So just reengineer your environment to the point these things are impossible. Never go to a bar again. Cut off all friendships which require you to take drugs or alcohol. Move to a new place where you wouldn't be able to access prostitutes. Don't use your computer except in a public place like a coffee shop or library.

    It comes down to how much inconvenience you are willing to endure in order to avoid the inconvenience of the itch. You have only three choices when that itch arises: give into it, endure it, or distract yourself from it. Enduring it is the only thing that will eventually cure it so you have to set up conditions where enduring it is preferable to the hoops you've created for yourself to jump through in order to give into it.

    It's that simple. There is no easy solution. No easy solution could work, because an easy solution would, by its very nature, be easily reversed or, even if it were completely irreversible, have consequences too far-reaching for you to commit to (e.g you want to stop whoring? chop your dick off; problem solved).

    You cannot just turn off certain behaviors like they were subroutines in a computer program. Overcoming yourself is not that easy. A human being is a highly adaptable biological organism and exists in dynamic equilibrium with its environment. Rejecting all the things you've mentioned isn't just rejecting those things, it involves rejecting the entire world that is enclosed by those things, all the minute dependencies, the experiences, memories, relationships, physical objects, physical locations, identities, ideas, beliefs, etc. You will see this when you start to change your environment to turn away from these things.

    Realize that you are trying to kill a part of yourself. All desires are living, because their sole and final purpose is, like a biological organism (or at the very least, a virus), to propagate themselves into the future. The moment they are satisfied, or the moment you do something to distract yourself from them (which is just another form of satisfaction), you have laid the seed for their next arising. You are trying to kill a living thing. And whatever is alive will try and resist death with all its might and cunning. That is what this demands of you. It's not as trivial as reading a book or following a five step program. If it were, you would've conquered it already. You have to be willing to engage in mortal combat. Are you willing? Because sin lieth ever at the door, but thou may rule over him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      good post

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This post is great advice, thank you, I think that you have a good point as to how my environment drives me to do these things. My alcoholism and drugs use largely arose from hanging out which friends who organised parties and often convinced me to try things like weed and amphetamine when I was drunk. I suppose that If I had different friends I never would have even started with that by my own volition. My most enjoyable and meaningful moments have often been when I was travelling or living out in the countryside rather than in the city where most of my days consist of working, drinking and sometimes hiring prostitutes.

      I suppose it’s like you said, a matter of making the action of doing something harder than not doing it and changing all the minute dependencies that propel me to give in. It will probably take time to cut it all out but at least I have a method now, thanks for this advice.

      > I know there are greater pleasures in life
      Do you? Maybe they're made-up bullshit. Why would there be anything more than surface-level pleasures when humans are literally just dumbass monkeys?

      Because I have experienced them myself. It’s impossible to explain to you if you haven’t. If you believe humans are nothing but dumb as monkeys I question why we would have ever made art, literature and music? We could have just as easily built more brothels and bars instead of churches and museums but humans understand that there is something deeper than just quick cheap pleasures.

      >If you only concern yourself with maximum pleasure constantly you’re just going to end up completely empty.
      Why? Prove it.

      Let’s say you’re given a drug that will put you in a state of constant perfect pleasure until you die. At that point if you only believe that base pleasure is all that matters life would lose all meaning for you because you’ve achieved a infinite win condition. You would have no reason to think, dream, struggle or even really experience any emotions anymore. But thinking, dreaming, struggling and having emotions are integral parts of what makes us human.

      If a hedonist ever succeeds at achieving perfect infinite pleasure he loses any incentive to be human anymore and becomes a empty set of dopamine receptors that is forever gratified without any deeper thought.

      The hypothetical ideal of hedonism would remove itself from the human condition and is therefore a subhuman way of thinking.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Let’s say you’re given a drug that will put you in a state of constant perfect pleasure until you die. At that point if you only believe that base pleasure is all that matters life would lose all meaning for you because you’ve achieved a infinite win condition.
        What is "meaning"? Where is the evidence such a thing exists, is even a coherent concept, or has value? I can't say I believe in such a thing, or that it features in any of my thinking to any extent whatsoever.

        >You would have no reason to think, dream, struggle or even really experience any emotions anymore.
        Sure, why does that matter?

        > But thinking, dreaming, struggling and having emotions are integral parts of what makes us human.
        Are they? I'd instead argue that "what makes us human" is DNA sequences and cladistic lineages that make us distinct as a clade of primates from our closest living relatives, the chimps and bonobos, and it could be said that many species of animal "think, dream, struggle, and have emotions", not just homosexual sapiens sapiens. That being said, why is "being human" important whatsoever? I think most humans are disgusting and/or stupid, and often fantasize about being some kind of alien, or free of a physical form entirely.

        >If a hedonist ever succeeds at achieving perfect infinite pleasure he loses any incentive to be human anymore and becomes a empty set of dopamine receptors that is forever gratified without any deeper thought.
        So what? He's enjoying himself. Why does anything else matter?

        >The hypothetical ideal of hedonism would remove itself from the human condition
        So what? The human condition is not valuable.

        >and is therefore a subhuman way of thinking
        How? Could just as well be labelled posthuman, or superhuman. Even if it was "subhuman", so what?

        >If you believe humans are nothing but dumb as monkeys I question why we would have ever made art, literature and music?
        Pleasure, obviously. Artistic pursuits and the consumption of artistic products are very popular sources of pleasure.

        > We could have just as easily built more brothels and bars instead of churches and museums but humans understand that there is something deeper than just quick cheap pleasures.
        Yeah, more and different pleasures than purely sensual ones. Still hedonism at the end of the day.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why does pleasure matter?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What do you mean by "matter"? It doesn't have any objective importance, but it does feel good, and I'll always take feeling good over feeling bad or indifferent. This is axiomatic, really. If you presented as a counterpoint someone who thinks that feeling bad feels good, wouldn't that be a logical contradiction?

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    GYATTsu

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Start with Akagi

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Books are not an object like in an RPG where you level up something once you read them
    Quit being a homosexual and just stop doing it, it's that simple, stop looking for ways to put it off, like reading a le book on le overcoming hedonism

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What if they were?

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    /// Ownership of shoreline property conveys the right to build a pier or wharf /// Parker Posey wants to take a stab at another Scream movie despite her character's grisly death in Scream 3 /// If you're late to work again, you'll be out on your ear /// To what extent is a man of 68 the same person as the callow youth of 18 that he once was? /// Mozart responded with a lilting melody that enhances the regular, sing-song accents of the metre /// After a bad year, Judd's career hung in the balance /// Dan nabbed the seat next to mine /// Per the IOM white paper, about 100,000 people a year die because of medical mistakes /// The bright flavor of paprika, in combination with sour cream, is a perfect foil for the succulent meat of rabbit /// I remember my grandma using that perfume — the scent, and the preening in front of the mirror that went with it /// The old diplomat was shaken to the core to discover that in their correspondence Mozart and his family and friends were gleefully given to silliness and smut /// The negative influence of bereavement on physical and mental health often fades over time /// A wad of money in a gold clip /// How we love that word — cue the trumpets, unfurl the banners, cast a golden light upon the White House /// They welcomed the newest family member into the fold /// The materials and finish give it the impression of a ballroom: velvet on the rear wall, red wall surfaces ///

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basado, kepe yiti yupo.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hedonists are the ultimate npcs

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >enjoyment bad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >enjoyment at the expense of everything else good

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, yes. It seems plainly obvious that "everything else" is completely worthless if it doesn't somehow increase enjoyment. Just seems like a category that could just as well be labelled "not enjoyable".

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whether you label something unless or unenjoyable does not me you can ignore it no matter how much hedonism you engage in. Wanting pleasure with no consideration to how or why is the worst way to get it. Making the idea of pleasure as the highest value stupid. It's like saying you want to draw with crayons but refuse to open the crayon box or get paper. But drawing with crayons is really the ultimate value and everything else is useless and can go hang!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Strawman. Opening the box of crayons and finding paper has value because it enables you to draw with crayons.
            Like I said
            >It seems plainly obvious that "everything else" is completely worthless if it doesn't somehow increase enjoyment.
            Opening the box of crayons and finding paper to draw on with crayons gets you to your goal of drawing with crayons, so opening the box of crayons and finding paper to draw on with crayons is important because it facilitates said goal of drawing with crayons, therefore, the category I refer to of "everything else" cannot include things like opening the box of crayons because opening the box of crayons increases progress towards the goal of drawing with crayons.

            So, the category of "everything else" must only include things that do not in any way forward your goal, and things that may be antithetical to it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But finding paper and doing the work of opening a box is not pleasurable. So clearly the value of hedonism is worthless if your highest goal is pleasure, because hedonism by itself does not bring you pleasure. You have it backwards, hedonism is paradoxically exactly what's antithetical to pleasure.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But finding paper and doing the work of opening a box is not pleasurable
            No, but it leads to pleasure, and these things must be performed to get said pleasure, so they are necessary and good in the pursuit of pleasure.

            >So clearly the value of hedonism is worthless if your highest goal is pleasure, because hedonism by itself does not bring you pleasure.
            Everyone's highest goal is pleasure lmao
            There is no one in the world that does not pursue pleasure above all.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >and these things must be performed to get said pleasure
            So clearly hedonism and the prusit of pleasure by itself is worthless if there are things you 'must' do but don't gaurantee pleasure

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Non sequitur

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You are the one who said the unpleasant activities /must/ be done. Not me.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How are you going to draw with crayons if you aren't going to open the crayon box and find paper?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know. The point is you needed to abandon hedonism and the single-minded prusit of pleasure for a moment to get your crayons. If you refuse because searching and working did not bring you pleasure you would have gray nothing. You needed to abandon hedonism as a value to live by it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You need to abandon the goal of eating ramen because you have to boil water first
            I can't even tell what you're trying to say; it's like you cannot comprehend the idea of multi-tiered goals, chains of events, planning, or cause and effect.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            None of that is pleasurable and in facts sounds laborious. I thought you were a hedonist and now you're telling me I need to i.prove my comprehension and ortient myself with goals

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You apparently have no idea what hedonism is.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Did you get pleasure telling me that?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Point in case

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      woAH

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And then someone uploads a hell virus into the system which makes everyone connected suffer forever 🙂

      Virtual Reality - not even once.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do zoomers have to make moronic, repetitive threads like this?

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why is someone samegayging this hard in this thread promoting hedonism?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In his own words: nihilism.
      He finds pleasure in trying to degrade others. He wants everyone to feel as hopeless as he does, but don’t worry he sees reality for what it is

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know. Try reading Epicurus.
    Other than that, what the frick do you even mean by "hedonism"

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You should read a book about false dichotomies instead. Also one of the many books about how americans are moronic so you'll stop having this naive belief in everything your society instilled in you. Against the american grain by Dwight MacDonald.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1 Pleasure is not and cannot be perpetual and the attempt to do so is antithetical and impractical

    2 You can say (incorrectly) that all people are motivated by the desire for pleasure, but this desire is itself a pleasure that must be pursued, leading to an infinite regress

    3 Pleasure is not a reliable guide for making moral ethical or useful decisions because it can be fleeting, unpredictable, and influenced by external factors

    4 Hedonism does not account for feelings of guilt or shame

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Desires/Section0003.html
    https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/WithEachAndEveryBreath/Section0003.html
    https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/OnThePath/Section0000.html
    https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/ShapeOfSuffering/Contents.html
    https://www.hillsidehermitage.org/dwr/

    >One should not act out of one’s emotions.
    >Instead become AWARE of them while they’re enduring.
    >everything you think is a problem is actually a symptom of the problem.
    >Suffering is the symptom of Dukkha, which is the problem.
    >You suffer because you resist the idea of discomfort
    >You are bothered because you resist the idea of being bothered.
    >the goal is to learn how not to be affected by things to begin with.
    >craving in regard to how you feel is the cause of dukkha.
    How then do you not crave against the pain?
    How do you stop craving for pleasure?
    >By enduring the pain and not acting out of it.
    >By keeping the precepts and seeing the danger in the slightest chance of breaking them.
    >That’s how you will gradually stop blaming the world and others for your suffering and instead see your craving as the direct and only cause for your dukkha.

    The value of sensuality is that it provides you with pleasure from the pain of itself.

    Sensuality touches you with pain, but at the same time, it offers you a solution for that same pain. It’s just like racketeering: “Okay, if you pay me, I’ll make your problems go away, problems that I put on you so that you will pay me”. So you get extorted by your own sensuality, your own desires. Sensual desires hurt, and giving in to them will remove that hurt and reward you with more pleasure. It’s a win-win. Or so it seems, until you realize that the true win is to not be pressured by the desires in the first place. The win is not having to pay the racketeering thugs for your safety; the win is to not have the thugs pressure you at all.

    The more you give in to the pressure of sensuality, the more you will have to give in since its nature can never be changed. The Nature of sensuality is that it hurts, burns, and pressures you.

    “Suppose there was a bronze cup of beverage that had a nice color, aroma, and flavor. But it was mixed with poison. Then along comes a man struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this bronze cup of beverage has a nice color, aroma, and flavor. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, its nice color, aroma, and flavor will refresh you. But drinking it will result in death or deadly pain.’
    Then that man might think: ‘I could quench my thirst with water, whey, or broth. But I shouldn’t drink that beverage, for it would be for my lasting harm and suffering.’ He’d reject that beverage. After appraisal, he wouldn’t drink it, and it wouldn’t result in death or deadly pain.”

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      –“Magandiya, suppose that there was a leper covered with sores and infections, picking the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterizing his body over a pit of glowing embers. A doctor cures him and he's now happy and free. Then suppose two strong men were to grab and drag him to a pit of glowing embers. What do you think? Wouldn’t he twist his body this way and that?
      –“Yes, Master Gotama. The fire is painful to the touch, very hot & scorching.”
      –“Now what do you think, Magandiya? Is the fire painful to the touch, very hot & scorching, only now, or was it also that way before?”
      –“Both now & before it is painful to the touch, very hot & scorching, master Gotama. It’s just that when the man was a leper covered with sores and infections, picking the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, his faculties were impaired, which was why, even though the fire was painful to the touch, he had the skewed perception of ‘pleasant’.”
      –“In the same way, Magandiya,
      >sensual pleasures in the past were painful to the touch, very hot & scorching;
      >sensual pleasures in the future will be painful to the touch, very hot & scorching;
      >sensual pleasures at present are painful to the touch, very hot & scorching;
      but when beings are not free from the passion for sensual pleasures—devoured by sensual craving, burning with sensual fever—their faculties are impaired, which is why, even though sensual pleasures are painful to the touch, they have the skewed perception of ‘pleasant’.”
      —MN 75

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh look it's another thread with some moron who confuses motivation with value judgements.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pleasure is not 'win state'-- you can still have pleasure and be a miserable failure in the same way you can win a war but it be phyrric. If pleasure was the ultimate win state people would just Brave New World pump themselves with chemicals mebtslly castate themselves and be done with it.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What kind of hedonism?

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What goes up, must come down.

    Highs are followed by lows.
    High = Low

    High = Pleasure
    Low = Pain

    Therefore

    Pleasure = Pain

    Seeking after pleasure is seeking after pain.

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We were “designed” by natural selection to do certain things that helped our ancestors get their genes into the next generation—things like eating, having sex, earning the esteem of other people, and outdoing rivals. So if you ask the question “What kinds of perceptions and thoughts and feelings guide us through life each day?” the answer isn’t “The kinds of thoughts and feelings and perceptions that give us an accurate picture of reality.” At the most basic level the answer is “The kinds of thoughts and feelings and perceptions that helped our ancestors get genes into the next generation.” Our brains are designed to, among other things, delude us.

    If you were designing organisms to be good at spreading their genes, how would you get them to pursue the goals that further this cause? At least three basic principles of design would make sense:

    1.Achieving these goals should bring pleasure, since animals, including humans, tend to pursue things that bring pleasure.
    2.The pleasure shouldn’t last forever. After all, if the pleasure didn’t subside, we’d never seek it again; our first meal would be our last, because hunger would never return. So too with sex: a single act of intercourse, and then a lifetime of lying there basking in the afterglow. That’s no way to get lots of genes into the next generation!
    3.The animal’s brain should focus more on (1), the fact that pleasure will accompany the reaching of a goal, than on (2), the fact that the pleasure will dissipate shortly thereafter. After all, if you focus on (1), you’ll pursue things like food and sex and social status with unalloyed gusto, whereas if you focus on (2), you could start feeling ambivalence. You might start asking what the point is of so fiercely pursuing pleasure if the pleasure will wear off shortly after you get it and leave you hungering for more.

    As the Buddha said, pleasure is fleeting and this leaves us recurrently dissatisfied. And the reason is that pleasure is designed by natural selection to evaporate so that the ensuing dissatisfaction will get us to pursue more pleasure. Natural selection doesn’t “want” us to be happy, after all; it just “wants” us to be productive, in its narrow sense of productive. And the way to make us productive is to make the anticipation of pleasure very strong but the pleasure itself not very long-lasting.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scientists can watch this logic play out at the biochemical level by observing dopamine, a neurotransmitter that is correlated with pleasure and the anticipation of pleasure. They took monkeys and monitored dopamine-generating neurons as drops of sweet juice fell onto the monkeys’ tongues. Dopamine was released right after the juice touched the tongue. But then the monkeys were trained to expect drops of juice after a light turned on. As the trials proceeded, more and more of the dopamine came when the light turned on, and less and less came after the juice hit the tongue.

      As time passed, there was more in the way of anticipating the pleasure that would come from the sweetness, yet less in the way of pleasure actually coming from the sweetness. If you encounter a new kind of pleasure—if, say, you’ve somehow gone your whole life without eating a powdered-sugar doughnut, and somebody hands you one and suggests you try it—you’ll get a big blast of dopamine after the taste of the doughnut sinks in. But later, once you’re a confirmed powdered-sugar-doughnut eater, the lion’s share of the dopamine spike comes before you actually bite into the doughnut, as you’re staring longingly at it; the amount that comes after the bite is much less than the amount you got after that first, blissful bite into a powdered-sugar doughnut. The pre-bite dopamine blast you’re now getting is the promise of more bliss, and the post-bite drop in dopamine is, in a way, the breaking of the promise—or, at least, it’s a kind of biochemical acknowledgment that there was some overpromising. To the extent that you bought the promise—anticipated greater pleasure than would be delivered by the consumption itself—you have been, if not deluded in the strong sense of that term, at least misled.

      Natural selection's job is to build machines that spread genes, and if that means programming some measure of illusion into the machines, then illusion there will be.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Everybody who did not recommend a book should try to stick to the thread topic

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Also, the hedonist should hedonize him- or herself and have those very small moments of clarity where he or she cries for a life lost, then come back to us with whether hedonism's actually a good idea
    The guilt will cripple you. Also, none of you gays are recommending books. Take a kindergarten reading comprehension class before you try to talk about the Matrix.

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/comments/12ma5h5/links_to_some_studies_on_negative_effects_of/

    Caffeine creates background tension that ultimately reduces the quality of life, an effect that may go unnoticed because it is masked by other stressors.

    The amazing thing is that even without knowing how this occurs, most people know that caffeine makes them nervous. Yet a common reaction is not to decrease intake of caffeine, but to reach for anti-anxiety drugs.

    Researchers found that habitual and light caffeine consumers had basically the same increase in stress hormones, proving that people do not develop a tolerance to the anxiety-producing effects of caffeine. Rather, people simply become accustomed to the feelings of stress, irritability, and aggressiveness produced by the drug.

    The interesting thing about caffeine is that it potentiates or magnifies the stress in our lives. This effect occurs not only when one consumes it, but also when habitual drinkers are deprived of their “fix” for even a few hours. Remember that caffeine is not a mood elevator except in the sense that metabolic stress tends to increase alertness. In other words, caffeine doesn’t improve one’s mood; it simply helps to avert the fatigue and depression associated with withdrawal.

    Few people would say that caffeine makes them depressed, but that’s only because the depressive effect is delayed. Studies show, for example, that most people given a group of substances over time will ascribe any changes in the way they feel to the last substance they took. Thus, feelings of tiredness and depression that come three hours after a cup of coffee are seldom associated with caffeine. We blame something else, like the weather or a boring job.

    Other eye-opening research has found that caffeine causes a remarkable decrease in cerebral blood flow. You don’t have to be a neurochemist to see that such an effect would not be good for memory, mood, and learning. Caffeine produces this effect, known as cerebral vasoconstriction, by interfering with the normal relaxation of blood vessels in the brain.

    Numerous studies have shown that hostility and anger significantly increase risk for heart disease and stroke. We now know that these emotions are tied to stress hormones in a vicious cycle: Anxiety and stress cause increased production of epinephrine and cortisol, which then affect mood, mind, and behavior in such a way as to create more stress, hostility, and anger. A common trigger? Caffeine

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That’s crazy. Makes me want to experiment with quitting caffeine. I may just stop drinking caffeine next month and see what happens.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I quit in 2017.

        Tapered down from 6+ cups day to about one cup a day for months.

        Remember being very tired in the tapering down process.

        Eventually dropped that one cup was probably very tired for at least a week.

        By day 20 without any caffeine, I felt great, but caved in and had a cup. Noticed how overly amped up I was from just that one cup (when it used to just make me feel normal). Was jittery and couldn't read a book because I was too adrenalized. Realized that I never needed it.

        Every time I would cave in with a cup once every 100-200 days I'd realize how I'd be more stressed later in the day and more tired the next day. So there was really no point.

        >feel great for the first half of the day with a cup of coffee
        >feel like shit the second half of the day
        >feel like shit the next day

        Not worth it.

        If I were to quit now I would probably get caffeine powder, measure out caffeine to the mg, put it in a bottle of water, and decrease the amount by 1-2 mg a day. That would be my only source of caffeine.

        Also realized that even chocolate was causing issues and quit that too (because it contains the methylxanthines caffeine and theobromine)

        The more of it you drink, the more you crave it.
        The more you go without, the less you need it.
        What goes up must come down.
        Everything comes at a cost.

        Quitting caffeine also led me to changing other habits.
        Alcohol became less appealing since I didn't need it to relieve stress.
        I realized that porn and masturbation was a bigger problem then I thought.
        Over time I started losing interest in energetic/loud/noisy music and preferring lighter music.
        Started meditating more and seeing the benefits of that.

        Now I'm pretty minimalist and don't really desire hyperstimulating stuff as much as I used to and I think that started with quitting caffeine.

        Caffeine, chocolate, sugar are the true gateway drugs that start when we're kids.
        I've actually got a gripe with Halloween now that I see the negative effects of that stuff.
        Kids get amped up on these stimulants at a young age and it fuels craving for more stimulation.

        >Drugs: Sugar/Chocolate/Caffeine/Alcohol/Weed/etc
        >Porn/Sex/Masturbation
        >Entertainment: Music/TV/Movies/Internet/Video games
        >Extreme activities: Sports/Driving/Biking/Skiing/Skydiving/Partying/whatever

        All of these stimulating activities fuel each other.

        Chasing after one source of pleasure/excitement leads to chasing after more.

        You remove one, go through the withdrawal process. Feel good.
        Remove another, same thing, realize you didn't need it.

        Eventually realizing that none of these things are necessary.

        Being excited/adrenalized is not sustainable and is actually stressful.

        Being relaxed and content with little is sustainable and actually feels good once you get used to it.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/

    “You drink to end the distress. The drink itself does not provide enjoyment, but you sincerely enjoy ending the nuisance of wanting a drink. The relief is so strong you feel happy, even giddy. You drink to get the feeling of peace that someone who is not dependent on alcohol always feels.”

    “if alcohol made you happy, every time you drank you should be full of happiness. Let me ask you, from a purely physiological perspective, how could alcohol possibly make you happy? The effect of alcohol is to deaden all of your senses, to numb you, to inebriate you. If you are numb, how can you feel anything, happiness included? Surely you are not happy every time you drink. None of us are proud of everything we have said or done while drinking. Yet in the moment we believe we are on top of the world, saying and doing anything we please, deluding ourselves into thinking it’s making us happy. Are you happy when the room starts to spin, or your dinner comes back up? Is the drunk on the street in Vegas who has lost his home and his family to booze truly happy? You might take issue with this and tell me that”

    “Unconscious learning happens automatically and unintentionally through experiences, observations, conditioning, and practice. We’ve been conditioned to believe we enjoy drinking. We think it enhances our social life and relieves boredom and stress. We believe these things below our conscious awareness. This is why, even after we consciously acknowledge that alcohol takes more than it gives, we retain the desire to drink.”

    “A good marketer can sell practically anything to anyone. Tobacco is literally dried, decaying vegetable matter that you light on fire and inhale, breathing horrid-tasting, toxic fumes into your lungs.121 At one point marketers promoted smoking as a status symbol and claimed it had health benefits. Once you give it a try, the addictive nature of the drug kicks in, and the agency’s job becomes much easier. If they can get you hooked, the product will sell itself. Since the product is actually poison, advertisers need to overcome your instinctual aversion. That’s a big hill for alcohol advertisements to climb, which is why the absolute best marketing firms on the globe, firms with psychologists and human behavior specialists on staff, are hired to create the ads. These marketers know that the most effective sale is an emotional sale, one that plays on your deepest fears, your ultimate concerns. Alcohol advertisements sell an end to loneliness, claiming that drinking provides friendship and romance. They appeal to your need for freedom by saying drinking will make you unique, brave, bold, or courageous. They promise fulfillment, satisfaction, and happiness. All these messages speak to your conscious and unconscious minds.”

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Now this, monks, is the noble truth of stress: Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, and despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful, separation from the loved is stressful, not getting what is wanted is stressful. In short, the five clinging aggregates are stressful.

    And what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion and delight, relishing now here and now there — i.e., sensuality-craving, becoming-craving, and nonbecoming-craving.

    And where does this craving, when arising, arise? And where, when dwelling, does it dwell? Whatever is endearing and alluring in terms of the world; that is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

    And what is endearing and alluring in terms of the world? The eye is endearing and alluring in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

    The ear… The nose… The tongue… The body…The intellect…

    Forms…. Sounds…. Aromas…. Tastes…. Tactile sensations…. Ideas….

    Eye-consciousness…. Ear-consciousness…. Nose-consciousness…. Tongue-consciousness…. Body-consciousness…. Intellect-consciousness….

    Eye-contact…. Ear-contact…. Nose-contact…. Tongue-contact…. Body-contact…. Intellect-contact….

    Feeling born of eye-contact…. Feeling born of ear-contact…. Feeling born of nose-contact…. Feeling born of tongue-contact…. Feeling born of body contact…. Feeling born of intellect-contact….

    Perception of forms…. Perception of sounds…. Perception of aromas…. Perception of tastes…. Perception of tactile sensations…. Perception of ideas….

    Intention for forms…. Intention for sounds…. Intention for aromas…. Intention for tastes…. Intention for tactile sensations…. Intention for ideas….

    Craving for forms…. Craving for sounds…. Craving for aromas…. Craving for tastes…. Craving for tactile sensations…. Craving for ideas….

    Thought directed at forms…. Thought directed at sounds…. Thought directed at aromas…. Thought directed at tastes…. Thought directed at tactile sensations…. Thought directed at ideas….

    Evaluation of forms…. Evaluation of sounds…. Evaluation of aromas…. Evaluation of tastes…. Evaluation of tactile sensations…. Evaluation of ideas is endearing and alluring in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

    This is called the noble truth of the origination of stress.

    And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading and cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, and letting go of that very craving.

    And this, monks, is the noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: precisely this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

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