What are some of the best arguments against and in favor of life after death?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I think living people are very good experts on what happens after death.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If only we could use necromancy to ask the dead what happens after death

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Luke 16:31

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          some people who have been in a temporary death have said there was nothing once they were dead

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            "Temporary dead" isn't a thing. Someone's heart stopped functioning, that's not dead.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            then what constitutes a real death? When the brain dies?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That's when you're legally dead. I don't know what's biological death, I guess when it's all organs are dead.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I see, that makes more sense.
            that being said, do you perhaps have any argument on the matter of this thread? I want to hear different opinions on this topic

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't start from believing in an afterlife. I believe in a creator, God, the church, the Bible, the church teachings on the afterlife, etc., if these things are true, then an afterlife is true. I can't point to a single irrefutable proof of it because it's not a phenomenon that happens in nature like gravity where you can see that an apple falls to the ground. It's a tacit knowledge from understanding over time, not something that can I could formalize in text.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I see
            In this case, why do you believe in God, in the church, et cetera? sorry if I am misunderstanding your post and assuming you are explaining why there isnt a formal text proof to afterlife, when in reality you could be explaining the absence of formal text proof for your beliefs in general

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because of my lived experiences my education in school, my pursuit in understanding the world, growing up in a religious household, going to church, reading the Bible, reading Catholic philosophers, etc. Basically the accumulation of everything in my life, my brain calculating all these probabilities leads me to consider these as more likely the truth than otherwise, this is why I said it's tacit knowledge, not something that you could point to one thing as simple as a falling apple, but that might be a bad analogy because the concept gravity and how we came to understand it isn't that simple, and nothing in life is really logically certain only probabilistically.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Only reason you die when your organs fail is because your brain can't keep running anymore. Most every death is just asphyxiation with extra steps.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            So NDEs arent real?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You mean *near* death experiences? Of course they're real, that's not controversial, but some people think it's subjective like a dream and it's impossible for the things they experience to have objectively happened. I think there's a possibility (because God could've just permitted someone to experience something supernatural) but improbability that any of them actually happened (especially all of them) like anyone who claims to have had any mystical experience, that's why the church does investigations.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There’s many who say the opposite. I believe when you’re dreaming you are visiting an astral plane much like one our soul will go when we die.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This is only an argument against a spiritual afterlife. All the Abrahamic religions teach that life is linked to your body, and the afterlife requires a physical resurrection followed by becoming immortal. Admittedly stretching the definition of the word "afterlife".

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    My family comes from a small town in the mountains of Italy. In the middle of the town is a beautiful church built over 400 years ago by people that wanted us to have it, my direct ancestors.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'm a theist
    I don't think there's any reason to think that the afterlife exists besides the problem of Evil
    I think God has instituted the afterlife in order to rectify injustices in this life
    For example murder victims

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      but in this case, what use would afterlife have for a person who, in a hypothetical scenario, never suffered any injustices?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There is a common difference in thinking between those who have a bias towards "return to the mean" and those who have a bias towards "trend following".
      I am in the latter camp. I don't think the Christian God is evil but it seems most intuitive to me that his creation reflects who he is and that things will continue more or less as they are now. Things in this world don't conform to our wishes, so whatever happens after death probably doesn't either.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Reincarnation is a fact, and we can observe the effects of it in multiple ways such as in pic related.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      haha ok bud

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Myth of an Afterlife: The Case against Life After Death is a whole book that tries to deboonk the idea of an afterlife.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      and? thoughts?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    John 3:16
    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
    All of Revelation

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      this only makes sense if you are already a theist

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The gate is narrow. 99.9% of humans who ever lived are extinguished at death "to dust they shall return" Only those who intentionally suffer and go all the way in pursuit of kindling a 'soul' within themselves can hope for some continuation of existence beyond the grave. It is a zero sum game, a purely biological process. "Man, know thyself" in a literal sense. The tiny minority who figure out how the human organism works and how an astral body can be created are the only ones with any hope of the afterlife. Mindless religious cattle are sadly doomed to be eternally extinguished

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >how an astral body can be created are the only ones with any hope of the afterlife
      interesting. how is this achievable

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    As in if you approve of life after death?
    Like life after death exists but you oppose the phenomenon?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      sorry if I made it confusing. I meant a discussion about wether an after life is real or not

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There has to be life after death because I'm scared and don't want my life to end

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I think the real question is: Is there sentience after death. The answer is no. When you die, all that you were, your hopes, your loves, your dreams, are gone. There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea of post death sentience. So treat people with kindness now, be honest, and genuine now, because tomorrow is promised to no one. All the strife and anguish in the world caused by organized religion is just selfish people trying to gain power over others. Heaven is a myth that the horrible selfish people propagate so that they can justify all their misdeeds in their final moments get absolution and continue on to paradise.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Theres no evidence for post life sentience, but theres no evidence for anything for after life

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What is phenomenologically different between losing your explicit memory and dying (at least in the way you describe)?
      My answer: there is none.
      I think after we die, we lose *connection* to our explicit memory, but the experiential continuum continues on. This could happen now even.
      Watch my "My Stroke of Insight" with Jill Bolte. She talked about experiencing extreme retrograde amnesia and can no longer identify photos of her family. There is a phenomenological gap between her present personal identity and the past.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Dont sweat about it. You are in a vessel that can only comprehend mortal life and nothing more. Life and death are beyond us. Always have been.

      >think the real question is: Is there sentience after death. The answer is no.
      And that's a good thing. Why would you want to stick around forever with your flawed and limited current self? You only want to stick around with (You) because that's all you ever know.

      There’s no good logical arguments for life after death. The only thing that can lead you to think of such a thing is the inability to detach from your human consciousness into the state of pure nothingness; you just can’t understand the state of being dead, being nothing.

      The only “argument” for theism isn’t an argument, but rather an intuition, a feeling that there has to be a life after death, stemming from the inability to detach from the human element of life into death.

      Obviously, there is no reason to rationally think that you will survive your own death, but the intuition is always prevalent.

      >There’s no good logical arguments for life after
      That's true. The only thing we can do is what we do best; we can measure it.

      [...]
      Neither of you have heard the punchline to that joke?
      Is there life after death?
      The question is fruitless, and beyond that irrelevant.

      Arguing for either is the funniest wild goose hunt to watch someone go down.
      You get some who panic, some who find faith, others who delve deep with the tools of science.

      All of these people are the punchline, it's fricking hilarious.

      >The question is fruitless, and beyond that irrelevant.
      Eh, its not that fruitless, and its in our nature to ask questions like that. The usual responses to this question are usually these categories of people.

      [...]

      >There is a tremendous amount of evidence for an afterlife.
      I still have my doubts. As far as Im concerned, all these experiences are part of our body's mechanism to "ease us to a life after death".
      People see that white light in the end because our eyes are one of the last organs that shut down, and then we get all kinds of experiences connected to our way of living, because parts of our brain flare up and shut down. Nobody has returned from true death to tell the story.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Dont sweat about it. You are in a vessel that can only comprehend mortal life and nothing more. Life and death are beyond us. Always have been.
        exactly my thoughts

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Where is the NDE poster when you need him?

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Against
    Phenomenology
    >For
    That feeling in the back of your mind that there has to be more to life than this. That leap of faith.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There’s no good logical arguments for life after death. The only thing that can lead you to think of such a thing is the inability to detach from your human consciousness into the state of pure nothingness; you just can’t understand the state of being dead, being nothing.

    The only “argument” for theism isn’t an argument, but rather an intuition, a feeling that there has to be a life after death, stemming from the inability to detach from the human element of life into death.

    Obviously, there is no reason to rationally think that you will survive your own death, but the intuition is always prevalent.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      but how can we know there is truly "nothing" after death? the possibilities of what can happen are infinite, dont you agree?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      but how can we know there is truly "nothing" after death? the possibilities of what can happen are infinite, dont you agree?

      Neither of you have heard the punchline to that joke?
      Is there life after death?
      The question is fruitless, and beyond that irrelevant.

      Arguing for either is the funniest wild goose hunt to watch someone go down.
      You get some who panic, some who find faith, others who delve deep with the tools of science.

      All of these people are the punchline, it's fricking hilarious.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >argument
    I don't need one. I just know.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes because I get the sense that there is more to existence than we have been shown, based on little glimpses here and there

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      examples of those little glimpses?

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Depends if you believe in life before death, after death, or both before and after death. Is eternal life comparable to temporal life at all? Or is it something else entirely? I.e. outside space and time? You be the judge.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Best argument against the afterlife:
    >zero scientific evidence of its existence despite everyone on earth wanting it to be real

    Best argument for the afterlife:
    >no but I had a dream one time and saw it!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >>zero scientific evidence of its existence despite everyone on earth wanting it to be real
      Do you actually know this for a fact or are you just assuming. Have you actually looked into it?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        nta, but Im pretty sure he means empirical evidence, as we cannot truly observe what happens after death

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Can you pick and recommend one of those books anon?

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >2 books posted
    This thread is shit.
    You.
    Yes, (You).
    Do you believe in the afterlife?
    Post the book(s) that convinced you.

    I don't believe in it.
    The Selfish Gene, When Prophecy Fails, The Last Messiah, The Pentateuch, Ecclesiastes, The New Testament (tips fedora).

    Non book readers are not invited.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      can you summarize why you dont believe?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah life exists after death, it's just another state.

      The Magus of Java is a good read. The title says the man is Taoist, but he's really not. It was just published before the internet was big, so many people wouldn't know the intricacies of Chinese culture and philosophy. The whole premise of the book is that a kung fu master, through a lifetime of meditation, retained enough yang energy to still manifest himself as a spirit and navigate this world. He taught a single man in the same art that allowed him this boon, and that man tried teaching many others to become like him. It is basically internal alchemy, and the theory has been discussed by many sages and philosophers in the East. It has no basis in religious talk, just plain stuff you can directly experience by being taught by a master.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        cool, gonna try to find a copy of this book. Is it a easy read?

        https://i.imgur.com/3bWUXfY.png

        >2 books posted
        This thread is shit.
        You.
        Yes, (You).
        Do you believe in the afterlife?
        Post the book(s) that convinced you.

        I don't believe in it.
        The Selfish Gene, When Prophecy Fails, The Last Messiah, The Pentateuch, Ecclesiastes, The New Testament (tips fedora).

        Non book readers are not invited.

        I'm planning on read the selfish gene, but right now I am reading The Last Superstiton, by Edward Feser. It is kinda of a response to some of the claims made by "new atheists", like Dawkins

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    just dont cope and accept your fate in peace

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do you remember the time before your birth? No? That's case closed in my opinion.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If I smashed your head in with a brick you would forget what happened yesterday but those events still happened, it's only your ability to recall them that changed.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    assuming that the state of being which occurs after death is exactly the same as that which occurs before birth, there is no reason to believe that you won't be born again into this world.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      there is no reason to assume pre birth and post death are equal states

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        then there is no reason to believe that there is nothing after death.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I agree

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Europeans tend do believe there's nothing before birth, so they're afraid there'll be nothing after death.
    Reincarnationists fear death for the opposite reason.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    One argument against it is that things like brain damage can severely alter your personality. If everything you are can be changed by damage to your material body, then where's the "Ghost in the Machine?"

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Out of all the people who have died in the past, not one of them has been able to communicate with the living saying "hey its me" or whatever. You will be in the same state as you were before you were born

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't really understand how anyone can believe in eternal life. You realize how long that is right? What happens after 6 billion years when you are just tired of existing in the afterlife

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I seen the afterlife in my dream. I know people will laugh but for me that is enough evidence

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >has direct revelation of the afterlife
      >doesn't share it with his fellow anons
      wow

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    How do atheists not go insane at the thought of there being nothing after death, that you wont experience anything ever again? To me the idea just seems irrational

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nothingness is preferable to the alternative of writhing in indescribable agony in fire, clawing at your skin and the people around you, screaming at the top of your lungs but being unable to hear yourself over the cacophony of anguished screams and cries of pain, where 99% of people who have ever lived go after death to suffer endlessly for all of eternity, doesn't it?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It is also preferable to existing in some incomprehensible LSD/DMT-like reality where you are no longer human at all and you're a sentient pulse of light traveling through the machine elve's palace walls.
        And preferable to being reincarnated as random living beings over and over again, living and dying and living and dying.
        And preferable to repeating this exact same life over and over again.
        And preferable to this being a simulation fed directly into your brain by a third party.
        And preferable to existing forever just to praise the name of god like a braindead drugged out mental patient.
        And preferable to existing forever stuck in a house made of gold with 72 virgins.
        Although not gonna lie that last one would at least be fun for the first million years or so.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >It is also preferable to existing in some incomprehensible LSD/DMT-like reality where you are no longer human at all and you're a sentient pulse of light traveling through the machine elve's palace walls.
          I was thinking about what the afterlife might look like if it exists and something like this seemed the most plausible.
          My reasoning is that our senses and most of our thinking are only useful in the context of the material world, shaped by evolution. There is nothing magical about seeing or hearing, it's just signal processing for light waves and small changes in air pressure (sound waves) so why would anything like this exist in an immaterial plane? If there is an afterlife it would probably be completelly different from any experience on earth.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why is it irrational just because it sucks? Death as end of consciousness just makes the most sense to me. The correlation between the brain and the mind is so strong that it's just a very small leap to assume causation. It also seems that I was dead before I was born and there is dreamless sleep every night. It's a very plausible view to me.

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Plato's Theory of Recollection really drove the point for me

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Life is a dream.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've seen people die and I'm still alive. It's pretty clear that life keeps going after you die.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      unless all the ones that died are NPC

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because if you make a lot of coats the coat maker is still alive even if his coats are dirtied and destroyed

    T. Socrates

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