What happened to the Nahua nobility after they were conquered by the Spanish?

What happened to the Nahua nobility after they were conquered by the Spanish?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Of Tenochtitlan? Most died in the siege as thye were warriors. The ones that survived were taken by the other Nahua beseiging the city and were sacrificed. If THAT didn't happen, such as if they removed their regalia and pretended to be commoners (something that is attested), if they had a book in their hands when leaving the ruins of the city then the Spanish would take them, torture them on an altar, kill them as a sacrifice to Jesus, and then throw the body to dogs.

    If you mean in general, lots of them died due to the diseases that were unknowingly introduced by the Spanish. A few cycle overs happened and the remnants took up Christianity and married into Iberian lines to be the administrators of the Spanish regime (tl;dr you have to be born in Iberia to have any power in the Spanish Empire, if you were born in the colonies then you were a second class citizen even if you were 100% Iberian by blood).

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Of Tenochtitlan
      I'm also interested in the people from other cities but I appreciate your answer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not a nahua examle, but look at what happened to cities that allied with cortes like Cempoala. They just drop off the face of the earth after the conquest. Their populations disappeared.

        When you study the traditions that existed in mesoamerica up to contact, and try to trace them afterwards, you really get a feel for how many people were wiped out. It seems like it didn't matter what side you were on, everybody died in the aftermath of the great incursion. The whole mesoamerican tradition went up in flames, and the spaniards strangled the ashes, so that when the populations rebounded the natives were no longer living or even thinking the way they had before.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This
        What happened in Texcoco and the other city

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Texcoco switched sides during the conquest, because It had been going through a succession crisis, with the claimant not supported by Montezuma managing to take over the city and siding with Cortez as vengeance, It was a pretty important event, arguably one of the main reasons the siege of Tenochtitlan was successful. Afterwards, their nobility spent the early colonial period wewuzzing as pre-columbian christians who shunned human sacrifice and the true architects of the Aztec Empire, in an attempt to gain favor from spanish authorities.

          Tlacopan was always irrelevant, even before and during the conquest, so not much is said about them. They didn't switch sides unlike Texcoco, but their support obviously didn't matter much in the end, and I remember reading about them becoming one of Cortez' encomienda places after the conquest.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What about Tlaxcala
            Did they benefit from the conquest
            I heard some Mixtec elites became really wealth through trade with the Spanish

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Tlaxcaltecas did quite well for themselves. They managed to gain exclusive privileges, and as such would act as Amerindian auxiliaries. They retained noble titles, autonomy from Spain, and would settle colonies from Guatemala to Northern Mexico and Texas after pacifying Chichimecha (Mesoamerican equivalent to 'barbarians') there on behalf of the Spaniards. They even participated in the Conquest of the Philippines.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How long did it last

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, my paternal grandmother is directly descended from Tlaxcaltec families that were sent to settle in regions of northern Mexico. My great grandfather was born in Colotlán, Jalisco, which used to be called Villa de Nueva Tlaxcala de Quiahuistlán.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Most became a part of the Spanish elite and kept some of their noble titles. There are people whose last name is Moctezuma living in Mexico today, they do not appear very native. For example, José Juan Marcilla de Teruel-Moctezuma y Valcárcel is the holder of the title of duke of Moctezuma of Tultengo (this somewhat irrelevant, since the Mexican Constitution bans noble titles).

            A somewhat substantial portion of tlaxcaltecas became settlers in the north of New Spain and even remained nobles through their settlement. This is especially found throughout the northeast, that is, Coahuila, Nuevo León and Tamaulipas, especially Coahuila.

            Some other natives, especially their nobles, were allowed some degree of self-governance through "Repúblicas de indios" (indian republics) though these were eventually phased out and abolished (I do not know when or by whom).

            Hope this helps.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Did any noble families survive to modern times

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >For example, José Juan Marcilla de Teruel-Moctezuma y Valcárcel is the holder of the title of duke of Moctezuma of Tultengo (this somewhat irrelevant, since the Mexican Constitution bans noble titles).

            Was I not clear enough?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Any other ones?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            surely, but I don't know their names

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >their nobility spent the early colonial period wewuzzing as pre-columbian christians who shunned human sacrifice and the true architects of the Aztec Empire
            Fernando de Alva Cortés Ixtlilxóchitl wasn't lying.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            He clearly was

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How do you know

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            With the fact that literally not a single other central mexican city-state's nobility's accounts mention Nezahualcoyotl being a magic pre-contact christian or Texcoco secretly being the Triple Alliance's true top dog somehow

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What did other cities say about him

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That he was a perfectly normal mesoamerican ruler who regularly engaged in human sacrifice and even built a temple to huitzilopochtli

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We would've known had the Spanish not destroyed the libraries he built.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            *Nezahualcoyotl built

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Spanish didn’t destroy it
            The Tlaxcalans burned it down

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It wasn't spanish clergymen doing missionary work who burned the books, it was the Tlaxcaltecs! Everything was the Tlaxcaltecs! They totally broke into a library belonging to a state allied to them and the spaniards just to burn some books down at some point because...they just did okay?
            This "EVERYTHING during the conquest wuz the native alliez' doing!" pop-his trope is quickly becoming almost as annoying as the "a couple dozen spaniards single-handedly conquered the Americas one"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It was probably the texcocoans themselves who burned them really, the tlatoani claimant who took over the city and sided with Cortez had hardcore convert's zeal and threatened his family and the city's entire population with death if they didn't convert.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The conquest of the aztec empire was more complicated than just evil spaniards burning everything down and eating babies

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It was also a lot more complicated than angry tlaxcaltecs burning everything down because they were le oppressed, but you don't wanna hear that

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I’m not saying that tlaxcaltecs burned everything down but they played a large part in the destruction and massacres that happened during the conquest

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And I'm saying that it's quite unlikely for the Tlaxcaltecs to have burned down the books in Nezahualcoyotl's library, which is what this conversation is specifically about

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Tlaxcaltecs were enemies and fought many wars against Texcoco. What makes you think they wouldn't set their city on fire when they finally conquered them

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because Texcoco sided with the spanish during the conquest, read the the fricking thread Black person

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Texcoco didn’t side with the Spanish, they had a civil war and had a prince who asked the conquistadors for help in overthrowing his brother

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the Spanish would take them, torture them on an altar, kill them as a sacrifice to Jesus

      what? when did that happen?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Source: his crack pipe

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Source: his crack pipe

        He's being purposefully hypebolic, referring to spanish executions done for vaguely religious reasons, which did indeed involve torture and feeding people to dogs, as full blown human sacrifices, presumably to get reactions such as yours.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Well, just judging from his post and Cortes's letters, but: after the siege of Tenochtitlan was finished.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There was a good john chuchiak lecture about what happened to some maya nobility after the conquest, where they try to seek recognition by the spanish crown. I would link it, but mesoanon lurks here and he specifically asked me not to share it, sorry. You could try asking him for it if you see him around on the board.

    john chuchiak has some similar papers about this topic you should check out

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I would link it, but mesoanon lurks here and he specifically asked me not to share it
      why and why do you kneel before him

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >why
        pfft I dunno, he's afraid of some rules about recording the conference.

        >why do you kneel before him
        lol because he's my friend and I love him too much. I have it on youtube unlisted so I can watch it, I'd like to share it with you. I'm venting my frustration by even bringing it up.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          you sound like a ravenous homosexual

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Descendants of Moctezuma live in Spain
    The Aztecs nobility was white, the Aztec emperor said so himself when speaking with Cortez, and when they mixed with Spaniards they became "Spaniards" and disapeared.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > The Aztecs nobility was white, the Aztec emperor said so himself when speaking with Cortez
      This
      Aztecs came from aztlan (atlantis)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Were Nahuas actually lighter than their neighbors?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > The Aztecs nobility was white

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There are thousands of descendents of Moctezuma around today in Mexico and the US.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Most would convert, and become part of the aristocracy of the Spanish colonies, being given Christian names.

  5. 1 month ago
    ࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇

    THEY BECAME CHRISTIAN, AND BECAME CATHOLICAL NOBILITY.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    what the hell man? he was talking to me, and he had a point.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    My paternal grandmother is directly descended from the Tlaxcaltecs. The Tlaxcaltecs helped the Spanish topple the Aztec Empire and were rewarded with Spanish land grants. They were sent as auxiliaries to subdue other Native tribes that the Spanish had failed to conquer, like the Chichimeca. The Tlaxcaltecs set up military outposts and Tlaxcaltec families created settlements in places like Colotlán in Jalisco and San Luis Potosi.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    they became spanish nobles

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducado_de_Moctezuma_de_Tultengo

  9. 1 month ago
    Radiochan

    they were absorbed into the spanish nobility
    the descendants of moctezuma ii became the dukes of moctezuma (for example)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >dukes of moctezuma
      Here you have the last descendant of the Moctezuma dinasty and Duke in Spain. He is a hardcore Spain´s defensor. He should be proclamed King of Mexico to restore the order and stop the shitty leftists (AMLO) contaminating mexicans with their woke and antispanish politics.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He sounds like more of a prostitute than Malinche was tbqh. More importantly, why the frick do you want more Guatemalans shipped to Spain?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          > More importantly, why the frick do you want more Guatemalans shipped to Spain?
          What’s this supposed to mean

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/5eexmU6.jpeg

      >dukes of moctezuma
      Here you have the last descendant of the Moctezuma dinasty and Duke in Spain. He is a hardcore Spain´s defensor. He should be proclamed King of Mexico to restore the order and stop the shitty leftists (AMLO) contaminating mexicans with their woke and antispanish politics.

      He sounds like more of a prostitute than Malinche was tbqh. More importantly, why the frick do you want more Guatemalans shipped to Spain?

      Based and Hispano-pilled. To be fair, why would he hate the Spaniards when they were the ones who made their ancestors part of the nobility, with all their rights and privileges, instead of being killed or sent to reservations like Anglos did? No one except the Spaniards did that kind of thing.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Tenochitlan had 500,000 people in 6 square miles, not even touching the rest of the Valley
        >8,000 Powhatans lived in 8,000 square miles in what was eventually colonial Virginia
        Might've been a factor.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Actually decent thread

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Cool painting

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    My Mexican grandfather used to tell us that his grandfather believed we were the direct descendants of the King Coliman (Rey Coliman or Colimotl). I think he was just messing with us because he was a drunk, I still miss the old bastard though.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'm just popping into this thread to say the Mexican history is fricking fascinating and it's bizarre to me how relatively unknown it is. I think it's the names tbh.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's interesting but unless it's pre-conques mexican history a thread about it is going to devolve into cumgenius hispanchista VGHposting about being ruled by spaniards

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >pre-conques mexican history
        Even that you could still get pro-Nahuatl people against pro-Mayan people.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Doesn't happen at all, pre-columbian threads tend to always be racists & schizos vs Mesoamericaboos, who in turn never really argue against each other in the same unironically competitive way IQfy discussion tends to go

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The names are all goofy af

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's actually quite boring from a macro point of view. Especially if you've already read up on the Old World extensively.

      t.mexican

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What do they teach about the Aztecs and Incas in Mexican schools

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not that anon, but:

          >Aztecs
          Basically just the events before the Spaniards came to Mexico.

          >Incas
          Absolutely nothing

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Do they go over the different emperors and wars that they had before the Spanish or is it mostly focused on the conquest

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Incas
            >Absolutely nothing
            Ew, a CONALEP student.
            YVXJ

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What’s CONALEP

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At least 3 presumptive heirs of the Aztek throne were recognized by the Spanish Empire. Their descendants gained various titles, joined knightly orders, collected pensions, the whole nine yards.

    The Tlaxcala, because they were very valuable allies during the conquest, became hidalgos, Spanish nobles, albeit minor ones except for a few houses that got fiefs handed to them by the Spanish.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why were they able to conquer Mexico but not Morocco

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      they had native allies in Mexico that they helped liberate from the Aztec yoke and participated in their rule

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why didn’t they ship some of those native allies back to Spain and ask them to help conquer Morocco

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