What was that one Bible story where an Israelite man says he will sacrifice the first person who walks out of his house if God lets him win a battle, ...

What was that one Bible story where an Israelite man says he will sacrifice the first person who walks out of his house if God lets him win a battle, and his daughter walks out, and he sacrifices her?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jephthah;
    but he doesnt swear to sacrifice the first "person"
    he says the first "thing" or something to that affect; him being a shepherd the implication would be that it would be a sheep or a goat. But his hasty and foolish oath was met with his daughter walking in.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But God accepts a human sacrifice?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        God accepts it?
        Narrator doesnt say.
        I think the implication is that Jephthah is damned if he does damned if he doesnt; as the law says a man MUST perform the oaths he swears.
        And the lesson is "don't make moronic oaths"

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He didn't just accept it, he caused it to happen.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        God accepts it?
        Narrator doesnt say.
        I think the implication is that Jephthah is damned if he does damned if he doesnt; as the law says a man MUST perform the oaths he swears.
        And the lesson is "don't make moronic oaths"

        additionally, some interpret the story to mean he sanctified her to the service of the tabernacle rather than giving her in marriage (i.e. in this way he "gave" her up).
        The story doesn't actually say he killed her.
        It just says she bewailed her virginity then it moves on.
        I don't think this is in accordance with the intended moral though; but, again, it doesnt actually explicitly say.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >he sanctified her to the service of the tabernacle

          Huh, did Israelite women do work in the tabernacle/temple? I thought they were forbidden from taking any kind of spiritual role

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >forbidden from taking any kind of spiritual role
            no.
            but neither is there... anything on the subject.
            Hannah gave up Samuel to the tabernacle... and there's nothing saying she couldn't.
            There's nothing saying Jephthah couldn't do it with his daughter either.
            But I think it's a stretch.
            Perhaps the narration doesn't go into details because it's a gruesome thing.
            Either way, don't swear oaths. God wouldve helped Jephthah with or without the oath.

            He didn't just accept it, he caused it to happen.

            I mean kind of. Rather, the deliverance was already going to happen through Jephthah as judge. Jephthah just ran his mouth in addition.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The story doesn't actually say he killed her.
          Yeah nah, that's nonsense.

          >30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
          It clearly says "as a burnt offering" (olah). And it later says he did as he vowed. The text insists on what a tragedy it was for a woman to die as a virgin never having married, but interpreting that as her sacrifice is just cope.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The text insists on what a tragedy it was for a woman to die as a virgin never having married, but interpreting that as her sacrifice is just cope.
            didnt say it wasnt

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >didn't say it wasn't
            Ok this is a cope. You really don't want to even entertain the idea that God accepted a human sacrifice, do you?

            You're talking about what you believe to be your morality again.

            Nah I'm not doing this with you moron

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I didnt say it wasnt cope.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the talmud blasts it as stupidity. one rabbi asks "what if it was a dog that met him first? his oath would have compelled him to commit sacrilege by sacrificing an unclean animal".
      of course therabbi here does not want to know that although moses and the cleanliness laws are claimed to have been promulgated at this point, nonetheless nobody in the stories between moses and king josiah seem to know about them (except noah who, when commanded to take seven pairs of each clean animal and one pair of every unclean one, does not ask 'what is a clean animal?' although moses hasn't been around yet).
      anyway, the issue is not whether jephtah expected he'll have to sacrifice some family member, but that he did. human sacrifice is a returning motif in this particular mythology, from isaac through jephtah's daughter all the way to jesus.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >his oath would have compelled him to commit sacrilege
        Or you know, God could have substituted the sacrifice like he did with Isaac, or God could have refrained from granting him victory over the Whateverites or, if Israel's victory was absolutely necessary, could have at least had Jephthah die in the battle.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That incident fell under being classified as a sinful vow. He did not need to keep it, in this case, because it would have been sinful to murder.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jumping through hoops to defend this shit is insane.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God doesn't need to be defended

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "God" is just a euphemism for your own morality. You're basically just claiming personal infallibility.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >"God" is just a euphemism for your own morality
          Nope. God is eternal and never changes.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're talking about what you believe to be your morality again.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If God never changes, then how is God able to communicate or interact with the world, which requires God to be in different states of saying or doing different things?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God is all things and all possibilities at all times.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Then why does God only manifest some subset of those possibilities at specific times?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he says, while worshipping jesus

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >He thinks his god eternally wants arbitrary human sacrifices

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >coping semite shitskins and their worshipers trying to rationalize human sacrifice to the desert demon yahweh
    You homosexuals are pathetic

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Agreed.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Book of Judges (and a lot of the Old Testament) is about Israel's cycle of leaders failing to follow the word/character of God, and it demonstrates how Israel, ironically, becomes akin to the Canaanites when they were positioned to be morally upright as God's chosen people: an irony that's still apparent to this day. Gideon murders and makes/worships an idol. Jephthah, the Israelite you're mentioning, treats God like a Canaanite deity and vows to sacrifice his daughter to win battles. Samson's final act is mass murder on top of an already violent and promiscuous life. A key takeaway after reading everything is that God's grace and leadership save a person/people, not the people that rule contrarily to him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Book of Judges (and a lot of the Old Testament) is about Israel's cycle of leaders failing to follow the word/character of God, and it demonstrates how Israel, ironically, becomes akin to the Canaanites

      The entire OT was designed to subvert Canaanite identity to begin with.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Gideon murders and makes/worships an idol.
      Gideon's "murder" was righteous vengeance on the killers of his family, enacted upon defeated Midianite kings (who in fact requested he perform the execution.)
      The ephod he made from the spoils was later worshiped as an idol but that wasn't his intention.
      >Jephthah treats God like a Canaanite deity and vows to sacrifice his daughter to win battles.
      He did not, he made a rash vow and was devastated when his daughter became the sacrifice.
      >Samson's final act is mass murder on top of an already violent and promiscuous life.
      You're projecting modern morals on the tale, there is no such judgement in it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Admittedly, I'm not the most knowledgeable, and I'm probably grossly oversimplifying things, but I think it's fair to look at divinely inspired texts with hindsight and modern morals ("the same yesterday, today, and forever"). Israel's leaders being sinful/fallible (even with good intentions) is still an undeniable theme. A rash vow is still a rash vow. A murder is still a murder. An idol is still an idol.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Gideon murders and makes/worships an idol.
      Gideon's "murder" was righteous vengeance on the killers of his family, enacted upon defeated Midianite kings (who in fact requested he perform the execution.)
      The ephod he made from the spoils was later worshiped as an idol but that wasn't his intention.
      >Jephthah treats God like a Canaanite deity and vows to sacrifice his daughter to win battles.
      He did not, he made a rash vow and was devastated when his daughter became the sacrifice.
      >Samson's final act is mass murder on top of an already violent and promiscuous life.
      You're projecting modern morals on the tale, there is no such judgement in it.

      Just to illustrate how much you're slandering people like Gideon (venerated as a righteous Hebrew saint by apostolic Churches), here's how Judges 8 finishes:

      >28 Thus Midian was subdued before the Israelites and did not raise its head again. During Gideon’s lifetime, the land had peace forty years.
      >29 Jerub-Baal [Gideon] son of Joash went back home to live. 30 He had seventy sons of his own, for he had many wives. [...] 32 Gideon son of Joash died at a good old age and was buried in the tomb of his father Joash in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
      >33 No sooner had Gideon died than the Israelites again prostituted themselves to the Baals. They set up Baal-Berith as their god 34 and did not remember the Lord their God, who had rescued them from the hands of all their enemies on every side. 35 They also failed to show any loyalty to the family of Jerub-Baal (that is, Gideon) in spite of all the good things he had done for them.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It shows how much he respects god that he did it. You put 20th century over it and winds up looking stupid as usual.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Virgin sacrifice for a volcano god, that was later retconned to be an almighty perfectly moral creator god.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jephta in the book of Judges in the Old Testament.
    The prevailing scholarly opinion (and this claim is not unknown to the ancients) is that Jephta's "sacrifice" of his daughter meant that he was obliged to consecrate her a virgin to temple service, meaning that his line would die with her in order to fulfil the oath he swore before God. Few people believe that he actually slit her throat and burnt her on an altar except for stupid American protestants (not implying that all American protestants are stupid, just that this belief is primarily held by the stupid ones).

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