What was the point of making this?

What was the point of making this?

Homeless People Are Sexy Shirt $21.68

CRIME Shirt $21.68

Homeless People Are Sexy Shirt $21.68

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To destroy desktop linux and make linux only usable on server and backend for android like OSs.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      if anything it made desktop linux better. I am on wayland for 2 years now and it is so much smoother than xorg.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Kope.
        It is an unstable mess. Can't use GPU acceleration without giving special instruction.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          in the last 2 years it worked for ME better than xorg, don't know how this would be cope but you do you.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Can't use GPU acceleration without giving special instruction
          What?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            run steam with nvidia cards on gayland like you do on X.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is it just a nvidia thing, then? I have no issues with steam on wayland when using AMD.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >nvidia
            Go ask them why they don't properly support their own hardware.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You're full of shit and you're currently an unpaid beta tester for Red Hat. Enjoy being a cuck.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          you sound like an angry old grumpy man who isn't going with the future.
          I'm sad for you.

          thats a gnome problem, kde has thumbnails.

          gnome has too

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Cope cope cope

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I don't like that auto fill doesn't work with keepassxc

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          So you like the fact that all your X11 apps can read your master password and have access to the whole database?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I like the fact that it works, yes. Same way it does on windows.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You did not answer my question.
            I think the Windows DE is a terrible example to follow.
            Also, from a quick search I've seen multiple solutions for auto-type to work on Wayland, so I guess you should ask the KeePass devs to add support.

            >This. This shit was made for the needs of text-based mainframe terminals.
            You don't use the terminal? Dumb techlet zoomer.

            >You don't use the terminal?
            No, and neither do you.
            You use terminal emulators on top of modern graphical display stacks. Sorry to break it to you.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Terminal emulators follow the design of text-based mainframe terminals. All of the basic mechanisms are still the same.
            Why do you use legacy tech from the mainframe era?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why do you write words when you could just draw everything you want to express, or upload a short video on the subject?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Why do you write words when you could just draw everything you want to express, or upload a short video on the subject?

            Why are you writing words using an archaic obsolete interface designed in the 1960's and 1970's? Why are you also doing it with obsolete software with key bindings designed for an extinct keyboard layout of a 1980's Sun terminal?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You did not answer my question.
            Yeah, I did. Malicious X11 and wayland apps can already read my entire database by taking advantage of the unfixable print screen vuln.
            >I think the Windows DE is a terrible example to follow.
            Because it works? MacOS has the same model. It's only wayland that regards key capture as a security issue.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the unfixable print screen vuln.
            Elaborate.

            >It's only wayland that regards key capture as a security issue.
            And that makes Wayland superior to the alternatives.
            This is not the only advantage it has over X11 mind you, as I'm certain you're well aware.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And that makes Wayland superior to the alternatives.
            If you have the know-how to prevent an application from doing far worse things than keylogging (which it'll be able to do anyway once it gets root), then you probably also have the know-how to prevent an application from keylogging on X.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If you have the know-how
            I don't have to.
            If you ask anyone unfamiliar with the nitty gritty details of DEs what's their expectation about app A being able to read the password input of app B, everyone will tell you they don't expect it to be able to read it.
            It's an intuitive expectation and that's the default behavior on Wayland.

            >Elaborate.
            Any gui application can capture your entire graphics buffer. Wayland doesn't make a difference.

            >And that makes Wayland superior to the alternatives
            Wayland is older than an entire operating system (android) and doesn't have the full feature set of what it was originally designed to clone (surface flinger).

            >Any gui application can capture your entire graphics buffer
            I might be wrong, but I believe this is impossible on Wayland. Can you please provide proof of that?

            >Elaborate.
            Any gui application can capture your entire graphics buffer. Wayland doesn't make a difference.

            >And that makes Wayland superior to the alternatives
            Wayland is older than an entire operating system (android) and doesn't have the full feature set of what it was originally designed to clone (surface flinger).

            >surface flinger
            Comparing surface flinger to Wayland, complexity wise, is like comparing a bicycle to a space ship.
            Surface flinger's mission is extremely simple in comparison and does not have to contend with the complexities of window management and the multitude of simultaneous input/output systems.
            Flinger is not even able to show more than one window at a time. When you see 2 apps shown simultaneously it's all done in hardware layers on the GPU side.
            Don't bring mobile display services to the discussion of DEs if you don't want to make a fool of yourself.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Elaborate.
            Any gui application can capture your entire graphics buffer. Wayland doesn't make a difference.

            >And that makes Wayland superior to the alternatives
            Wayland is older than an entire operating system (android) and doesn't have the full feature set of what it was originally designed to clone (surface flinger).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            How? Via access to a DRM render node?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How?
            By taking a screenshot of the desktop you mong.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not him but there is no way to actually do that in a way that will work on every compositor.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >how to summarise wayland
            kek
            But actually, you just call the screenshot program of the compositor/DE/display server amalgamation. 99% of wayland installs are just running KDE or Gnome.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            ScreenCast and Screenshot portals will work on basically every desktop

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            requires that the compositor has a portal implementation

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, as they should.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't agree with that

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It should work for at least say 95% of wayland desktop compositor users. GNOME, KDE, and all wlroots compositors have a screencast/shot portal impl

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >requires that the compositor implements a protocol that wayland is literally unusable without
            what level of cope is this

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, go ahead and write me a simple app that can screenshot my Wayland compositor.
            I'm waiting.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://apps.kde.org/spectacle/

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That depends on Kwin itself. It cannot take a screenshot without it's consent.
            And btw, that's unrelated to the keylogger problem.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I was assuming that the process is actually sandboxed properly. My mpv doesn't have access to screencopy or export-dmabuf on my system so it can't take a screenshot of my desktop 🙂
            I was wondering if the accelerated graphics stack was inherently flawed or something.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >sandboxing
            Too bad years of flatpak have seen that the permission system is broken.
            >devs ship apps with lax permissions to avoid bug reports
            >users use flatseal to allow everything to stop apps breaking

            That depends on Kwin itself. It cannot take a screenshot without it's consent.
            And btw, that's unrelated to the keylogger problem.

            >It cannot take a screenshot without it's consent
            See above. Permissions don't work.
            >keylogger problem
            It's not a problem on desktop display servers people actually use like WDDM, Quartz and Xorg.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Permissions don't work.
            The simple fact that now apps can't screenshot my screen is proof that it's working.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's wrong. They have no standard way of taking screenshots. They could still do evil hacks to do whatever the frick they want with the system.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They could still do evil hacks to do whatever the frick they want
            Wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about.
            Keep using X11.

            I don't agree with that

            Fair enough. Then maintaining and using X11.

            They weren't taking screenshots of your screen in the first place. Dbus permissions can't stop them if they wanted to, because a malicious application will request those permissions on first launch, the average user will click through and the whole thing amounts to red hat rediscovering windows vista UAC.

            >the average user will click through
            Then let the average user be moronic. But at least now we have a simple and effective method of NOT clicking through instead of defaulting to "able to read everything".

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But at least now we have a simple and effective method of NOT clicking through instead of defaulting to "able to read everything".
            A simple and effective method of security theater, that is magnitudes less powerful than using XACE. Not to mention that feature has been in Xorg with XSECURITY (namespace sandboxing with xpra and xephyr) longer than wayland has existed.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Then it should've been turned on by default on modern distros.

            >That's the thing. X11 is not a standard. It's an implementation.
            X11 is literally a standard.

            >X11 is not a standard. It's an implementation
            This is the level of knowledge of wayland shills kek

            It was supposed to be just a standard. But it became a de-facto single implementation. You know that.

            >Wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about.
            No you.
            >Keep using X11.
            But they want to remove X11 support from everything.

            >But they want to remove X11 support from everything.
            Then ask around those devs their reasoning for preferring the Wayland system. Weight the pros and cons, and try to convince then they are all wrong and you're the one who is right.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It was supposed to be just a standard. But it became a de-facto single implementation. You know that.
            Nice backpedaling. Xorg succeeded Xfree86 as the dominant implementation of the X11 protocol. Xwayland and arguably Xenocara are alternative implementations of the X11 protocol.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Those are all interesting facts, but what matters for what we were discussing is that there's only one relevant implementation and no one is willing to work on it or do a new one.

            >It was supposed to be just a standard. But it became a de-facto single implementation. You know that.
            Even if you say that, Wayland neither has a single implementation nor standards for important desktop things. It's just all over the place. Everyone agrees that these are two of Wayland's worst problems.

            Not saying it doesn't have problems or missing things. But it's better than continuing with X11 for modern stuff. By now X11 is already missing a lot of stuff that Wayland supports.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > By now X11 is already missing a lot of stuff that Wayland supports.

            Like what? Wayland doesn't even support HDR and it's trivial to extend X11 for HDR support.
            The same is true for VRR. VRR is a compositor dependent mess on Wayland. On uncomposited X11 you have at least defined behaviour.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It is quite simple really. I can open up a game right now and it'll use VRR on wayland without issues. I have 2 monitors connected.
            If you can give me a solution for this on X11, I'll make the switch back to X11. It really is that simple. Make it so 2 monitors are connected, and one can make the game work the same way as it does on wayland, with VRR enabled. If you say it works, there must be some way you can specify how.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://gitlab.com/pac85/xorg-server/-/commit/e2a4d5cf8965f7fcc8f07d04cb1e95f5e62a0094

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I assume I can just apply this patch and it'll work fine?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It worked for me about two years ago. It should work fine if you apply it on top of the last xorg release. It probably won't apply with the upstream master, which contrary to the memes has actually gotten significant work since the last tagged major release.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No it applies cleanly to xserver master. I would give this a try but I don't have multiple VRR monitors so I can't even test it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Like what?
            I'm sorry, but there's a laundry list of modern features that Wayland can do that X11 can't and people have been posting them repeatedly.
            I guess next time I'll create a copy pasta or something for guys like you.

            >Wayland doesn't even support HDR
            See pic related.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >a laundry list of modern features that Wayland can do that X11 can't
            All lies I'm sure.
            >pic related
            That's kwin implementing an incomplete implementation of a draft wayland protocol.
            https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2023/12/18/update-on-hdr-and-colormanagement-in-plasma.html

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >draft wayland protocol
            Don't care, it works.
            Isn't that the typical X11 answer?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't work.
            >Obviously there is still a lot to do. Color management is limited to either sRGB or full-blown rec.2020, you shouldn’t have to install stuff from Github yourself, and certainly shouldn’t have to mess around with the command line4 to play games and watch videos in HDR, HDR screenshots and HDR screen recording aren’t a thing yet, and many other small and big things need implementing or fixing.
            He also left out
            >you can't calibrate your screen on the wayland session
            >draft wayland protocol
            No, KDE's "HDR" is a port of Joshua Ashton's gamescope work which itself implements a subset of features of the draft wayland protocol for general color management and HDR. What's actually upstream in kwin now has little to do with the actual draft protocol.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            A lot of words to say it works on Wayland and doesn't work on X11. Just like a lot of other modern features.

            t. doesn't know that running multiple X sessions is possible. you know that your software has access to your disk, right?
            acting like Wayland makes you a lot more secure is fricking moronic. any motherfricker running software that they believe might be tainted would be wise to use something like Qubes

            >you know that your software has access to your disk, right?
            Maybe yours do. Mine doesn't. I don't allow it for untrustworthy software, such as closed-source stuff.

            >So you like the fact that all your X11 apps can read your master password and have access to the whole database?
            But so do Wayland apps.

            Wrong. See above.

            >or i NEED nvidia
            wait so even the pro-Wayland shills admit it's shit with Nvidia?

            >it's shit with Nvidia
            Nvidia's drivers are broken with Wayland and lots of other Linux stuff.
            Ask Nvidia to get out of their asses and fix their shit.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >ask nvidia to fix wayland
            no need to, it just works on X.org

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't allow it for untrustworthy software, such as closed-source stuff.
            Wayland doesn't enable this, idiot. You need other garbage to sandbox programs on Linux. Wayland doesn't even help here. Even with X11, you could just run a nested server. Claiming that Wayland enables sandboxed apps is highly dishonest.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            KDE (which suck balls btw.) implements a non standardized protocol which is not part of Wayland and will only work with specific apps on KDE.
            They could do exactly the same for their X11 compositor.

            >You said Linux, not Linux desktop.
            It happens all the time, but at least the kernel follows a policy not to break userspace.
            >And even so, it is still better than Windows or Mac OS,
            How delusional do you have to be?

            MacOS and Windows are both spyware botnet OSs
            If you use anything but Linux or BSD you must be totally moronic.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why does most of IQfy think that KDE sucks?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ebussy disinformation squad

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because they're either jobless morons who fell for the muh tiling WM meme or GNOME "contributors."
            KDE on Wayland is the future of the Linux desktop.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No. They are by 2 or 3 Nvidia users, probably. Not people.

            [...]
            >KDE on Wayland is the future of the Linux desktop.
            This. It's crazy how good KDE became and so fast.
            All the other DEs are just catching up.

            I'm getting more the feeling that it'S 2 or 3 people hyping up KrashDE.
            Frick off, morons.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >KrashDE
            Expired meme. KDE is the future and you're coping if you think otherwise.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What does "the future" mean? That every Linux user should switch to it? I think you should frick off. I will never use anything this bloated and fragile.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because KDE uses a de-facto proprietary tool kit and has telemetry built in.
            They KDE org also took part in the cancelling of Stallman.
            KDE can not be trusted and their software bloat should be avoided at all cost.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They KDE org also took part in the cancelling of Stallman
            So did GNOME and the Xorg Foundation.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Goes to show how trash all these projects are.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            So what do you use? Plain TTY?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            A WM with almost no dependencies. No, not a tiling WM. It's light-weight, has no memory leaks, and can reach uptimes of up to a year. (I prefer to restart the machine to update the kernel if it has been running for too long.)
            My only problem is firefox, which leaks so much memory that it sometimes gets OOM killed over night.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, they are all pozzed, infiltrated and sabotaged.
            For the Xorg foundation it's especially apparent since they deliberately stifle xserver developement and push inferior solutions that are purposely broken by design like Wayland.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's unstable, badly maintained and trend obsessed (see windows inspired design and soft forking wayland). I switched to awesome a few weeks ago during the absolute nadir of plasma 6 and have never been happier with a DE/WM.

            >KrashDE
            Expired meme. KDE is the future and you're coping if you think otherwise.

            >expired meme
            kek KDE advertises that they fixed dozens of bugs every plasma minor release.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >kek KDE advertises that they fixed dozens of bugs every plasma minor release
            That's a good thing. It means it's actually being actively developed unlike meme tiling WM #8283773 or xfeces.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the absolute nadir of plasma 6
            literally WOMM for almost everyone
            it's like the bizarro version of when KDE4 was literally unusable on release but morons tried to pretend otherwise

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            So now we're at the stage of pretending that there weren't back to back bump limit threads about plasma 6 being buggy as shit for weeks after release?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I bet they were all Nvidia users.
            I've been using it since release with zero problems.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >nvidia le bad
            I might just buy a nvidia card to shit on wayland trannies who are too poor to own one.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            KDE 5.27 was a large step in the right direction with a massive amount of bug fixes and a few months later they threw all the hard work out the window with another botched major release with KDE 6. For all Gnomes bullshit design choices it's generally solid in terms of game breaking bugs and every point release generally doesn't break much (outside of extensions). That said XFCE or Cinnamon are the only sane choices for DE's if you're using Linux.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That said XFCE or Cinnamon are the only sane choices for DE's if you're using Linux.
            MATE is comfy too. Now I'm on xfce, but MATE is always a good, bloat-less alternative that just werks unless you are one of those homosexuals concerned about aesthetics.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >KDE (which suck balls btw.)
            Unless you need some specialty DE, I don't know why you would say that. It was buggy a few years ago, but it's been rock solid for me for the past few years. I'm using AMD on Wayland by the way.

            Why does most of IQfy think that KDE sucks?

            I think it's just 2 or 3 very loud guys. KDE is a pretty "vanilla" DE, so I don't get why it would gather so much hate.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I think it's just 2 or 3 very loud guys.
            So all these posts reporting problems with KDE are by 2 or 3 people?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No. They are by 2 or 3 Nvidia users, probably. Not people.

            Because they're either jobless morons who fell for the muh tiling WM meme or GNOME "contributors."
            KDE on Wayland is the future of the Linux desktop.

            >KDE on Wayland is the future of the Linux desktop.
            This. It's crazy how good KDE became and so fast.
            All the other DEs are just catching up.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It was supposed to be just a standard. But it became a de-facto single implementation. You know that.
            Even if you say that, Wayland neither has a single implementation nor standards for important desktop things. It's just all over the place. Everyone agrees that these are two of Wayland's worst problems.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about.
            No you.
            >Keep using X11.
            But they want to remove X11 support from everything.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            They weren't taking screenshots of your screen in the first place. Dbus permissions can't stop them if they wanted to, because a malicious application will request those permissions on first launch, the average user will click through and the whole thing amounts to red hat rediscovering windows vista UAC.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            t. doesn't know that running multiple X sessions is possible. you know that your software has access to your disk, right?
            acting like Wayland makes you a lot more secure is fricking moronic. any motherfricker running software that they believe might be tainted would be wise to use something like Qubes

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >tainted
            any software is a potential attack surface
            and reading files of the user the software is running under is a whole lot different than access to the contents of an encrypted database

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >you know that your software has access to your disk, right?
            It doesn't

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            if you install flatseal you realize cuckpak actually doesn't really sandbox your software

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So you like the fact that all your X11 apps can read your master password and have access to the whole database?
            But so do Wayland apps.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is not there was lately big issue with Wayland because applications where having access to loging prompt when everything was locked? Which Waylandgays just scoffed as "uuhhh it's a big deal!"?

            Have some fricking principles in your life, homosexual. Wayland is not better in this case than X11 and does everything much worse... except maybe meme display setups but apparently that sits on X11's Github ready to be released but for months homosexuals like you are stalling it out of spite.

            Wayland lost, the only reason why it's still alive is spite of few people still working on it. If we would put energy sunk into this pointless experiment into X11 things would be actually better.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        if you exclusively use something then how would you know

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Holy ESL

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Why are you guys perpetually shocked that most IQfy visitors are not american if it has always been like this?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            because mutts aren't very bright. small portion of their population is which is carrying the rest of morons and enjoying them as labour force

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      sounds like definition of linux from years

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >from years
        Good morning saar!

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          GOOD MORNING SAAAAAAAAAR

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Autistic thought processes.
    >Dude... we should like............... scrap literally everything and start from ZERO.... surely this time we'll do everything right forever and won't ever need to restart from scratch again and again and again and again and again and again and fork into another fork of a fork of a fork of a fork into a fork
    It's the AUTIST Sisyphus curse that many morons are born with into this world. Overthinking, OCD, BPD, ADHD, Prone to addictions, Prone to choice paralysis, Prone to restarting. Many. Many. Many such cases in Linux.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >>and again

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        kek what's this from
        whitest kids you know feeling

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous
          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            thanks anon

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      hubris, built on the idiotic (and malicious) assumption that newer programmers are better than past ones and that all programs will eventually be ported to cringeland

      this. at this point they keep developing wayland out of sunk cost fallacy

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >they keep developing wayland out of sunk cost fallacy

        Pretty much. I said it when Wayland was first started the moment I read how they praised it with:
        >Xorg has so much cruft, we can start over and make the codebase clean this time and not overengineer it and keep it simple

        This is something inexperienced programmers say who never did this before. Once you added all the features needed to make it competitive with X11 it's the same mess all over again. The entire sell of Wayland read as written by someone who underestimated the scope of the problem. They originally thought they didn't need many things they later reluctantly added because they did and all those “security” prommises are void already with all the extensions for introspection that are now supported by wltroots and KDE, except in an incompatible way.

        [...]
        >and that all programs will eventually be ported to cringeland
        This too.
        This happens so often that programmers are surprised people aren't porting things or switching over to what they think is their new, better product.

        For people to switch it doesn't just need to be “good enough, and new”, not even “better” but “so much better that it justifies the cost of switching” that's what they don't get and free software developers are generally passionate hobbyists who program for fun who don't seem to realize that most people don't think porting is fun, but something that takes time.

        I've seen it happen so many times that they were surprised that people weren't switching over and porting. Even if the new product be better like in the Python3 case. It still isn't worth it to port an entire codebase which Guido didn't seem to get.

        And it all led to manpower bleeding away to Wayland rather than fixing Xorg, which is the new existing thing for programmers that still has 10% adoption.

        >it doesn't just need to be “good enough, and new”, not even “better” but “so much better that it justifies the cost of switching”
        kek

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >this. at this point they keep developing wayland out of sunk cost fallacy
        This has got to be it. I genuinely find it hard to believe that the few edge cases X11 lacked support for were *so* insurmountable that it necessitated spending 15 years rewriting everything from scratch.

        if anything it made desktop linux better. I am on wayland for 2 years now and it is so much smoother than xorg.

        Funnily enough, my experience on Wayland is that it's far *less* smooth than X11 (on AMD hardware, mind you). With the recent Plasma 6 update, all of the animations on the Wayland session are laggy as frick, whereas X11 is smooth as butter (but that session has its own issues, and both sessions have ugly window content resizing when you tile a window compared to Plasma 5). Arguably the only thing that seems far improved with regards to smoothness is resizing a Chromium-based browser (which looks dreadful on X11), but this is only when explicitly setting a flag for the browser to run under Wayland, and it makes the browser so unstable that I end up having to run it through XWayland anyway.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >This has got to be it. I genuinely find it hard to believe that the few edge cases X11 lacked support for were *so* insurmountable that it necessitated spending 15 years rewriting everything from scratch.
          i know! why did they spend decades making these filesystems with new features and speed when they could have just improved ext4?
          btrfs? who needs a CoW filesystem? who needs snapshots or checksums? theyve been working on it for 16 years and its still not ready!

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty much. I said it when Wayland was first started the moment I read how they praised it with:
      >Xorg has so much cruft, we can start over and make the codebase clean this time and not overengineer it and keep it simple

      This is something inexperienced programmers say who never did this before. Once you added all the features needed to make it competitive with X11 it's the same mess all over again. The entire sell of Wayland read as written by someone who underestimated the scope of the problem. They originally thought they didn't need many things they later reluctantly added because they did and all those “security” prommises are void already with all the extensions for introspection that are now supported by wltroots and KDE, except in an incompatible way.

      hubris, built on the idiotic (and malicious) assumption that newer programmers are better than past ones and that all programs will eventually be ported to cringeland

      >and that all programs will eventually be ported to cringeland
      This too.
      This happens so often that programmers are surprised people aren't porting things or switching over to what they think is their new, better product.

      For people to switch it doesn't just need to be “good enough, and new”, not even “better” but “so much better that it justifies the cost of switching” that's what they don't get and free software developers are generally passionate hobbyists who program for fun who don't seem to realize that most people don't think porting is fun, but something that takes time.

      I've seen it happen so many times that they were surprised that people weren't switching over and porting. Even if the new product be better like in the Python3 case. It still isn't worth it to port an entire codebase which Guido didn't seem to get.

      And it all led to manpower bleeding away to Wayland rather than fixing Xorg, which is the new existing thing for programmers that still has 10% adoption.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        do you think it's possible to convince the lost manpower back? seriously how is that these people can work on xorg/wayland and not understand what you said?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Have you ever debated with the average Freedesktop developer and many free software developers in general?
          The issue is, these people start out as people who do passion projects and then get later promote to a paid position. They're fundamentally passionate and biased is the issue.

          Ever noticed how free software developers are typically extremely tribalist and full of not-invented-here stuff? It's blatantly clear they're constantly protecting and defending their own to the death with absolutely bizarre logic.

          Honestly, much of the really corporate stuff such as that from Valve and Rust are the ones that are actually objective and listen to technical arguments. Most of the Redhat crowd is filled with tribalism idiots.
          Wayland is “theirs”; they will never admit that it was a bad idea no matter how much technical arguments woud be against it. The Valve dev that blocked Wayland in SDK was objective and most of all answered to profits. That person was first and foremost interested in turning a profit for Valve, and that means making life as good as possible for Valve's customers.

          The people that work for companies like Google, Valve, Mozilla, they're listening to reason and technical arguments. The people that work for Red Hat or KDE, not so much, they're people who started it due to passion, not because they applied to a random job because they needed money.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >they're people who started it due to passion
            that's what I just don't get, if they're really passionate wouldn't they want what's best for their project rather than being dogmatic just to keep their project feeling "special" and theirs? like you said, it's ridiculous the amount of hoops these guys will jump through
            honestly the more I learn about these guys the more I'm surprised the FOSS ecosystem has survived this long

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >that's what I just don't get, if they're really passionate wouldn't they want what's best for their project rather than being dogmatic just to keep their project feeling "special" and theirs?
            No? They feel tribal allegiance and simply defend “their own” to the death and refuse to acknowledge even a single thing wrong with them.

            Passionate people typically aren't rational. They probably convince themselves that they want the best for it, yes.

            >the more I learn about these guys the more I'm surprised the FOSS ecosystem has survived this long

            It's a true testament to how much better of a development model it is in theory that it can overcome this kind of incompetence to be honest.

            They're not the only one. Look at OpenBSD: they dogfood everything there too. All openBSD devs use tmux, all GNU devs use screen. Do you think that's because they came to the conclusion that either is better for their own subjective needs? Of course not. It's not-invented-here-syndrome.
            Suckless devs are also pretty bad.

            Maybe what keeps it alive is the new influx of actual for-profit companies like Google, Valve, Mozilla and now even Microsoft who see open source not as an ideology, but as something that's convenient to make money of. As said, their devs listen to reason.

            The resistance the Valve dev met when that person said Wayland wasn't ready yet and wouldn't be without some serious re-engineering of the protocol was staggering. They indeed went through all sorts of hoops and clearly didn't care about quality, the important thing for them was that “one of their own” was being favored.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's a true testament to how much better of a development model it is in theory that it can overcome this kind of incompetence to be honest.
            kek this

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I will also say that these passionate tribalists do work hard.
            They may be super biased, but they do often churn out code like madmen and work off the clock too.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            they are passionate for their ideas and the work they have done, not the big picture of the project. Very few people are big picture people, and they tend to not like to work on details, bc they are bad with details

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        If you want to do the
        >rebuild it from the ground up, but properly this time
        thing then you need to actually start from the ground up. You need a new C-like layer over assembly but properly, you need new os/drivers/etc in this new C-like language, but properly etc. Otherwise your new sleek and modern whatever is just going to degenerate into a spaghetti mess when it needs to interface with all of this lower level shit that is still exposing shitty C APIs from 40 years ago written before anyone knew wtf they were doing and who could never have anticipated just how much of the world would eventually become dependent upon it. You will never be able to quarantine it perfectly without sacrificing control, some of the lower level mess will always leak through any abstraction you try to make over it. If your goal is to fix technical debt in the bigger picture then you need to work from the bottom up and accept that it will take decades at minimum for any of these changes to propagate up and begin replacing established dependencies.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Autistic thought processes.
      Exactly that. Too certain they knew what was wrong to put any effort into thinking about what was right, so they made masses of mistakes and locked themselves into another cycle of pain. When people pointed this out, their response was to try to kill X11 instead of fixing their own real problems.
      Too much autism, and not nearly enough proper analysis or self-introspection.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    hubris, built on the idiotic (and malicious) assumption that newer programmers are better than past ones and that all programs will eventually be ported to cringeland

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      now wayland already has problems that would require rewriting everything to fix them

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not surprising, 16 years and it's still not finished, I mean wtf, are the developers insane?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          they totally learned a lot from xorg

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        like what?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Explicit sync support is effectively a complete rewrite that requires a completely different code path in all compositors for all wayland rendering.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            well it's more work for the compositor and clients because they have to work with semaphores, of course that's gonna require more code
            >is effectively a complete rewrite
            no it's not

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Explict sync makes the entire core rendering model of wayland completely wrong. The whole "wait for a surface commit from a client" thing is essentially legacy. Of course, they won't admit this, but that's effectively the result. Like many other wayland protocols, the extension is hacked on to workaround designs in the core that turned out to be flawed and wrong.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Explain this to me. What is the compositor waiting for?

            From what I understand, the GPU is completely async about rendering work. A client can start rendering to a surface, and that rendering work can (ideally) continue in the background even after it was passed to another process. (The GPU doesn't care about process boundaries in the first place.) The surface is like a lazily evaluated value that needs to be finished only when actual scanout happens (displaying it on screen), though userspace might need to instruct the driver to wait for it to finish before it can be used.

            What and why is Wayland syncing here? That last surface sync before scanout I mentioned?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What is the compositor waiting for?
            The client to finish rendering. In wayland, committing a wl_buffer requires that the rendering on the surface is finished before the compositor can read it. It's implictly synced right to the core. There is no "rendering work can (ideally) continue in the background" in this scheme. It's impossible and wasn't designed like that. The latest explict sync protocol works completely different unsurprisingly.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Surely they're somehow working it around?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Well yes with the new protocol. It works by sending DRM synchronization objects.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gnome and Wayland is why Microsoft can get away with telemetry, because people would rather have telemetry than deal with not having properly working thumbnails or any other the other hair brained "features" of Linux.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      thats a gnome problem, kde has thumbnails.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        But the most popular distros come with Gnome by default, and the fact that Gnome deliberately ignores feature requests while begging for money means that people are no longer willing to donate because they are not getting what they "paid for".

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          As a long time user of Linux since 2007, i can confirm that gnome has done nothing but get worse since then. it all started with gtk3.x thats when it went down hill. go look at some old gnome 2 screenshots using emerald and beryl. they look 100x better than the lazy flat monochrome look of today.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >go look at some old gnome 2 screenshots using emerald and beryl
            Those were the days indeed.
            Today there is no use case for Gnome anymore.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The best distro right now for desktop use is OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. It doesn't default you to any desktop system but gives you a free choice with none being favored by the distro above the others. This is the mature way for a distro to handle the problem.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    must updoot to current CoC goyified softwareslop so they control it all

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      homie get a JOB

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    surprised how much gnome just werks these days. even with Wayland.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hey, Linux brothers, I have an idea - how about abandon Wayland, because it's bloated and old and make new one? Yes, it will make linux desktop unusable for about next 15 years, cause many users to experience painful transition, normal developers and business will probably abandon troonix completely, ecosystem will become more fragmented, even more complex hard to maintain, but it a price for progress.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They wanted to improve the Linux desktop. But sine they didn't actually care about the desktop, only embedded shit and other crap they got paid for, it was really bad and it has been taking years to get it ready for the desktop.

    This year, for sure.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    My stupid display setup choices

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    we got too close to year of the linux desktop so they had to act fast to avoid such a horrible fate. now we have waylandjtm0k

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    NIH syndrome.

    Code monkeys would rather invent something new than learn how to maintain something old, even if the new thing ends up just as bad or even worse than the old thing.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    im thinking wayland 2 will save linux

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    the way that wayland devs conduct themselves makes their project a perfect representative for troony globohomosexual politics. "I am completely different and incompatible, you must change everything to accommodate me, and I will actively undermine you and your work until this seems preferable"
    even if the devs were not trannies themselves, it would be a troony project on a spiritual and metaphysical level

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Wayland devs are the X devs you moron

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        They aren't but keep repeating this meme without any evidence.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          You can literally find this information in 5 seconds
          Keep coping moron

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You can't even name the supposed devs

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Some of the wayland devs are some of the Xorg maintainers.
        But honestly, that just makes it worse. They're incompetent morons.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      So much of open sauce is like this now
      Gayland Gnome Rust
      Reddit Modification
      "We've done this in the worst possible way, to make things work the least, because it gets me hard to make you comply"
      Maybe Microsoft pays them

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Who the frick is still shilling for some 40 years old unmaintainable software? Nobody wants to maintain X. The goblins that still want X are not going to maintain it. X is also easily the most bloated Linux related thing still in use.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      it just werks. no need to do anything. maintaining is a meme.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Getting rid of obsolete and dated Xorg.

      The Linux kernel is 32 years old.
      gcc is 37 years old.
      VT100 is 46 years old (every terminal emulator still supports it, the codes are still used by default).
      Shell (what bash and POSIX shell are based on) are 45 years old.
      POSIX (still the basis of all Linux programs) is 36 years old.
      C, the language used by most Linux code, is 52 years old.
      E-mail is at least 53 years old.
      Ethernet, the basis of all modern networking, is 44 years old.
      >nooooooo X is LE OLD we MUST replace it

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        X is LE OLD we MUST replace it
        Alright anon, go on, volunteer to be the maintainer of X11, or fork X11 and improve it.

        The previous devs who were working X11 don't want it anymore, it's up to you and all the others X11 users and devs to keep the boat afloat

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The previous devs who were working X11 don't want it anymore, it's up to you and all the others X11 users and devs to keep the boat afloat
          First, they have to continue maintaining it anyway. Xwayland is a thing. Xorg doesn't need any hardware-specific code anymore.
          Second, the recent Xorg maintainers are incompetent morons, as they have proven with Wayland, which took 15 years to become finally usable, if you can believe the Wayland shills here.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Humiliation ritual.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Getting rid of obsolete and dated Xorg.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >hagfricker (24)
      I still wonder why your time zone is like this.
      Are you Russian?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      cute desktop

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      cute desktop

      samegay

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      What makes X "obsolete" and "dated"?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Lackluster support for HiDPI displays, multiple monitors, and high refresh rates.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          None of that is true. You can set your dpi, and arbitrary refresh rates and resolutions for an arbitrary number of monitors in xorg.conf.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Xorg has no actual support for those things, only hacks, which means it doesn't work properly. I have two 27" 4K monitors plugged into my laptop. On KDE on Wayland, the scaling works perfectly. On KDE on Xorg, it's broken.
            That's exactly why Xorg devs chose to work on Wayland instead because they want to actually implement those features and not just hack them on top of 80s legacy software.

            Also I forgot to mention, Wayland has HDR support too.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Randr solved multi monitors in xorg over a decade ago.
            >Wayland instead because they want to actually implement those features
            lmao. spoken like someone who doesn't realize how much of the modern wayland ecosystem is hacks on top of legacy 00s software

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Randr solved multi monitors in xorg over a decade ago
            That is the problem. A lot hss changed since then.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            There is no technical limitation here. Randr has all the proper abstractions you need to add support for whatever new thing comes along. Red hat decided that wayland would sell more support contracts in the long run and went with that

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Randr solved multi monitors in xorg over a decade ago.
            LOL sure did bud, if all you do is use homogeneous monitors.

            Xorg has no actual support for those things, only hacks, which means it doesn't work properly. I have two 27" 4K monitors plugged into my laptop. On KDE on Wayland, the scaling works perfectly. On KDE on Xorg, it's broken.
            That's exactly why Xorg devs chose to work on Wayland instead because they want to actually implement those features and not just hack them on top of 80s legacy software.

            Also I forgot to mention, Wayland has HDR support too.

            >80s legacy software
            This. This shit was made for the needs of text-based mainframe terminals.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >This. This shit was made for the needs of text-based mainframe terminals.
            You don't use the terminal? Dumb techlet zoomer.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Xorg has no actual support for those things, only hacks
            The important thing is that it works. Only results matter, whether they come from some grand unified design or a "hack".

            >That's exactly why Xorg devs chose to work on Wayland
            The vast majority of the people who contributed the vast majority of the work to X.org/X11 never even touched Wayland. This "Wayland devs are X.org devs" is nothing but a dishonest sophism which ought to end.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            This tbh, multimonitor on Xorg is a fricking lottery. There are just so many moving parts to it and in case the planets don't align as well it won't work. Wayland multimonitor seems a lot more flexible and more likely to work.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >multimonitor on Xorg is a fricking lottery
            Quit lying.
            https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Multihead

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >hacks
            There isn't even standard support for custom modelines on wayland. Wayland people call things they don't support hacks while ignoring the very literally hacks like shipping per-application load balancers so mouse events won't crash the compositor aka the entire display server.

            >Wayland has HDR support too
            No it doesn't. kwin has _partial_ HDR support and color profile enforcement, but not calibration. There is no wayland protocol for color management or HDR.

            >Xorg devs
            There is exactly one X.org dev who predates wayland that works on wayland now. Daniel Stone. There are exactly two X.org devs who have worked on both wayland and X.org pre-wayland. Daniel Stone and Kristian Hogsberg.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > Xorg devs
            Xorg saboteurs who took over project and killed it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wayland is having to hack on "modern" features too. See

            Explict sync makes the entire core rendering model of wayland completely wrong. The whole "wait for a surface commit from a client" thing is essentially legacy. Of course, they won't admit this, but that's effectively the result. Like many other wayland protocols, the extension is hacked on to workaround designs in the core that turned out to be flawed and wrong.

            Both Xorg and Wayland suck, just Xorg is mature and doesn't break.
            The new thing is *supposed* to be obviously better to replace the old.
            That is not the case, it is replacing bad with bad.
            Linux should have copied Plan 9 rio instead.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            that poster has no idea what he's talking about, he can't even say why he thinks it's flawed and wrong, he just made a bs assertion

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            what? Implicit sync is wrong. GPUs don't work like that and neither do modern graphics APIs. In order to parallelize the GPU work as much as possible, you need to use explicit sync.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The point was making a streamlined graphics stack that's focused on meeting the needs of the 21st century instead of the 1980s.

          lol better not use a high poll rate mouse on that streamlined modern graphics stack of yours

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        His feefees.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        another fricking wayland thread
        just pick a display manager and use it. jesus christ you homosexuals have nothing better to talk about

        >dated
        xorg is from before gui days, and still has code from those days. some call this bloat, others don't talk about it

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >mpv user
      >also a pedo
      pottery

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        He's only a fake pedo.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Wrong.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Who are you?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Someone who's not wrong.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're wrong though.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      what image viewer is that

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      what a shitty desktop

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ah yes, the "new" protocol that's the "future" of linux that's been in "development" for 15 years and is STILL a mess

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Moving the Linux desktop past the 2000's era xorg had it stuck in? It's fine, it works well. I'm using it, even with an Nvidia card, and it's so much smoother and nicer. Every single release fixes more and more of the bugs, which are mostly just very minor visual glitches you barely notice.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's obviously the feature, but nobody can deny that Wayland and its shittiness threw back the Linux desktop by years. Even now, Wayland is doing many things worse than X11.
    Wayland is an expression of everything wrong with the modern Linux desktop.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    to increase AMD profit.

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The point was making a streamlined graphics stack that's focused on meeting the needs of the 21st century instead of the 1980s.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >focused on meeting the needs of the 21st century
      well too bad they utterly failed at that one

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        They succeeded. 2024 is the year Wayland takes over. Get back to me in 2025 and let's see what the situation is then.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The core protocol is so bad that they didn't even have the foresight to make scaling non-integers lmao

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    More efficient
    more security
    perfect frames
    Anime tiddies
    supports newer display technologies
    makes homosexuals seethe
    better tooling
    runs on low end hardware better(Kodi on an sbc htpc runs waaaaay better on wayland)
    cute anime girl desktops
    just werks
    better implementation
    makes (you) seethe
    Segregates the Linux desktop, keeps gn*me Black folk in their own neighborhood
    Makes Linux desktop top tier
    It's good

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >nobody is ever going to go out of their way to support for fear of being cancelled as well

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Black person they "cancelled" hyprland
        Hyprland is still getting users. The frickers writing code. Nobodies writing code for x11 including (you). Its the one time that red hat has fricked up so much that they gave away control of Linux desktop, thinking a bunch of trannies could manage it "democratically" with freedesktop.org not realizing that trannies will do what trannies do and now they lost power.
        So stop sucking wiener, quit being a homosexual, love anime tiddies, get a real gf, marry and frick her right, raise your child right so they never troon out, and enjoy wayland.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Nobodies writing code for x11
          They don't need to. It works. Why do you think people need to COOOOOOOODE nonstop?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They don't need to
            Yes they do.
            >Why do you think people need to COOOOOOOODE nonstop?
            Because while the software stack never changes, new bugs are constantly found as other software gets developed, including new drivers for new hardware. As new hardware is sold with new features, people who buy that hardware would like to use those features. Such as HDR. Some people buy new monitors with higher refresh rates to use in conjunction with their old monitor with a lower refresh rate. One day we may have displays that do something entirely different like 3d holographics or shoot images directly into your eyeballs and x11 will most likely not support those technologies either.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, outdated shitware like X11 will never support cool modern hardware like 8kHz mice, Wayland is the future. Oh wait.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            x11 supports using monitors with different refresh rates. just admit that what you actually want is wobbly windows

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's a hack and only works best at factored refresh rates or: 120hz and 60hz. If you have a 144hz refresh rate monitor, and since no one makes a 72 hz monitor it won't factor well because it still bases it off one monitor, this time off the highest refresh rate instead of locking everything to the lowest refresh rate. 144hz and 60hz will create stutters on the 60hz monitor. You get gains with 240hz and 144hz however. But frick up again if you have 240hz and 144hz.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            240hz and 60hz would work ok. Its the 144hz monitor that will frick everything up

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            X11 has supported wobbly windows for decades.

            It's funny. Every feature that Wayland devs claim doesn't work on X actually does work. You now see people in this very thread claiming that you can't have proper multimonitor support on X, something that has worked fine for decades.

            No project resorts to outright lies like Wayland.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            b-but even when it does work, you had to like, configure it with xrandr, it doesn't just work
            t. troonyland maindev

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Because while the software stack never changes, new bugs are constantly found as other software gets developed, including new drivers for new hardware. As new hardware is sold with new features, people who buy that hardware would like to use those features. Such as HDR. Some people buy new monitors with higher refresh rates to use in conjunction with their old monitor with a lower refresh rate. One day we may have displays that do something entirely different like 3d holographics or shoot images directly into your eyeballs and x11 will most likely not support those technologies either.
            And how does any of this justify the existence of Wayland?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      tsmt

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >more security
      They don't yet support security-context-v1 unlike sway so giving access to the wayland socket is a trivial sandbox escape or information leak via privileged protocols.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I still get a roughly 5% performance decrease when using wayland instead of X, and it's not even just gaming bit every perceivable use-case, even things that are completely unrelated to the display server like terminal applications.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      TRVTHNVKE

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's a "pro developer" anti consumer make work circle jerk. It's loosely related to the Red Hat project, so it is sus.

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hyprland is better than BSPWM so i'm good

  25. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland is cool to experiment with. I mean, Xorg is gonna be obsolete soon. Do you want to be a stuck up Boomer? I don't think so. Making the switch to Wayland should be easy as pie, especially with Red Hat spearheading the revolution.
    The time of Xorg was yesterday, NOW is the time for Wayland. Make way, Chuds.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Tell me when wayland stopd having an aneurysm every time I try to use anything other than integrated graphics

  26. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe it's for desktop effects like Compiz or transparent terminal.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That's basically what the Wayfire compositor is.

      That's what MATE is using for their Wayland session.

  27. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland Devs linked up with the IPv6 designers

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    As a casual linux desktop user for 20 years, I haven't been following the whole xorg vs wayland thing, but i did always wonder, why compiz didn't stick around. That was the one period, linux desktop was lightning fast and super responsive.

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    to finally ditch that stacked pile of shit called Xorg

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    None. Almost 16 years later, it's still nowhere close to replacing X11 and the vast majority of desktop users are still running X11.

    See https://www.phoronix.com/news/Firefox-Wayland-X11-Stats

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It will be interesting to see how this data evolves overtime once Ubuntu 22.04 LTS has been out as their first long-term support release with the Wayland session by default, among other Linux distributions that have been moving towards Wayland
      >no follow-up
      what did they mean by this?

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Newer display gimmicks I would guess
    Take for instance my setup: 2 freesync monitors, both 165hz, different resolutions. Seemingly fine but I cannot use VRR under xorg. Only on Wayland. With different refresh rates it gets worse. Proper scaling on x11 only seems supported on Plasma which is moving away from it. GNOME X11 doesn't seem to have fractional scaling at all.
    On Wayland though there's plenty of issues. Fractional scaling on firefox through wayland just gets fricked, it's unusable. Scrolling at other speeds than default feels weird. Drag and drop works whenever it pleases. It's more complicated to tell certain applications that I don't want to middleclick paste. Custom modelines don't seem to be a thing. And of course a good amount of DEs still do not support it.

    So I'm basically fricked here because I happen to have more than one monitor and I want to use a feature. Maybe I'll try AsyncFlipSecondaries, but I'm not entirely sure which monitor is going to be detected to be the primary one.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nevermind. The primary screen freaks out with AsyncFlipSecondaries. X11 is just fricking broken outright unfortunately when it comes to multiple monitors.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        No, xorg works fine with multiple monitors. You don't understand what you're doing. AsyncFlipSecondaries is used to allow monitors at two different refresh rates to run vsynced simultaneously. It doesn't have anything to do with VRR memetech.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          You're right, it doesn't seem to make the primary monitor work with VRR at all, I don't know why they have to mislead people in the arch wiki with "Suppose you have a new 144Hz FreeSync capable monitor".
          But in any case it doesn't do what you say either at all. The secondary monitor will tear the frick up if that setting is enabled. It's done so the primary one can not only run at a higher refresh rate but also not be capped.
          VRR is the best "memetech" conceived in the last decade. It gets rid of tearing and input lag at whatever framerates. There's a good frickton of jittery shit out there and it does effectively solve that problem. Much more useful to me than HDR will ever be.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The secondary monitor will tear the frick up if that setting is enabled
            No, it means the compositor, if you use one, allows the secondary monitor to tear. Unless you're running two different games on your monitors this is a non-issue. If you want to run a fullscreen application across two or more monitors, VRR works fine, because you're fullscreening across the "screen" instead of a "display" (xorg monitor). If you really want per-monitor VRR you can build xorg with this patch, I used to do it when I ran 2x 1080 monitors.
            https://gitlab.com/pac85/xorg-server/-/commit/e2a4d5cf8965f7fcc8f07d04cb1e95f5e62a0094
            >It gets rid of tearing and input lag at whatever framerates
            It absolutely does not. VRR doesn't work properly without vsync and the cost of it is flickering and an unstable refresh rate (on amd at least). It's unnecessary in the first place if you can keep a stable framerate.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm using an AMD GPU and I have zero flickering with VRR. It's smooth as shit too. I can have some game running at around 85fps and there's no need to compromise anything to match a higher refresh rate or cap it to 60fps through vsync to make it not look odd. Even in emulation it works out quite well considering the moronic refresh rates some arcade games use that are not quite close to 59.94hz. It's a godsend for MAME. If you use a VA monitor you might have flickering, but that's a problem with VA.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/?label_name%5B%5D=VRR
            Then you're blind or lying.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I'm blind because my setup works correctly but an open source driver cannot handle it all that well apparently. Many issues in there seem to be people trying it over on x11 too, kinda funny.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Many issues in there seem to be people trying it over on x11 too, kinda funny.
            Kinda funny that you're ignoring the only issue that even specifies a display server is a wayland issue. And here's a random issue I picked where the issue is on both X and wayland.
            https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/2841
            Almost like the VRR implementation itself is inherently flawed.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the only issue that even specifies a display server
            *in the title

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think you have actually read what you linked.
            >On Windows it behaves correctly
            Solution 1: Use windows
            >On Linux it doesn't
            Solution 2: Fix it on linux to behave in a way that it works
            >I have an old monitor
            Solution 3: Buy a proper VRR monitor

            You're presenting VRR as this thing that never works when all you have to do is use software that supports it and hardware that supports it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm presenting VRR as this thing that's pointless in the first place (except for consoles) and has inherent flaws like flickering from rapid refresh rate changes. Buy a graphics card that can run the game well at your framecap or lower the cap. I have a single 4k 144hz monitor and I don't use VRR given the option to, because it's a gimmick used to justify higher prices on monitors. Same as 99% of HDR implementations.
            >HDR400 and nonfunctional local dimming clearly means we can double the price of our rebranded LG panel with gamer LEDs

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >it's a gimmick used to justify higher prices on monitors
            i'm not sure I've seen a 144hz monitor which doesn't support this. it doesn't command a premium at all.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Back in the day it was. Nvidia opened the floodgates with gsync, which required monitors manufacturers to implement it in hardware. AMD followed with freesync, which was theoretically software only. But prices never came down and now you've got gsync and freesync premium, which impose certainly minimum performance standards.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm presenting VRR as this thing that's pointless in the first place (except for consoles)
            There's no difference between what VRR does on consoles and what it does on PC
            >inherent flaws like flickering from rapid refresh rate changes
            Again, that's a problem with panel technology. If you have IPS this is not an issue.
            >Buy a graphics card that can run the game well at your framecap or lower the cap.
            Again. Lower the cap and you get input lag that your grandma can notice. You'll have to enable vsync anyways, or you get some really annoying tearing. It gets worse under than over your refresh rate. Anything that cannot reach 60fps needs triple buffering vsync to be anywhere near "smooth".
            And good luck getting a GPU that can run everything at even 120fps without having to use frame generation. Not to mention the absurd amount of games out there that just don't handle framerate all that well regardless of which hardware you have.
            >Same as 99% of HDR implementations.
            >HDR400 and nonfunctional local dimming clearly means we can double the price of our rebranded LG panel with gamer LEDs
            That HDR implementation you speak of is not doubling anything in price, which is why it sucks balls. If you buy a $200 1440p 165hz monitor and expect amazing HDR and VRR you're an actual moron. Do you also buy $50 refurbished ergo chairs and complain about ergonomic chairs existing as a concept because yours sucks dick?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There's no difference between what VRR does on consoles and what it does on PC
            VRR is necessary on consoles because consoles don't have the hardware to keep consistent fps.
            >Again, that's a problem with panel technology. If you have IPS this is not an issue.
            I have an IPS screen. Flickering is inherent to VRR. It is better or worse on some panel tech, but unavoidable in situations where your fps rapidly changes.
            >You'll have to enable vsync anyways
            Like I said, VRR doesn't work properly without vsync.
            https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/15
            If you want the lowest input lag possible, you don't use vsync at all. If you want the lowest input lag possible with minimum tearing, you use mailbox vsync. If you're believes in hocus pocus, you turn on freesync on your monitor and believe it casues lower input lag and zero tearing because the marketers say so. VRR is an extension to vsync, not a replacement.
            >That HDR implementation you speak of is not doubling anything in price, which is why it sucks balls
            The letters HDR let the manufacturers charge a higher price from morons, like the words freesync and gsync. The HDR implementations on 99% of monitors today, not just HDR400, are dogshit that only spike brightness in a differently inaccurate way compared to SDR monitors. Same as how wide color gamut means oversaturated on consumer monitors.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >VRR is necessary on consoles because consoles don't have the hardware to keep consistent fps.
            So you're saying PC gamers don't benefit from VRR because everyone can run all games above the screen refresh rate?
            What world do you live in?

            >Like I said, VRR doesn't work properly without vsync.
            It does. It's a completely separate system from Vsync.
            If you go above the monitor's maximum frequency and don't want screen tearing, then ofc you need to enable it, but it's independent.
            Don't mix it up.

            >believe it casues lower input lag and zero tearing because the marketers say so
            The input lag caused by VRR is orders of magnitude smaller than using Vsync. It's irrelevant.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Actually read the article.
            >The tearing inside the G-SYNC range with V-SYNC “Off” is caused by sudden frametime variances output by the system, which will vary in severity and frequency depending on both the efficiency of the given game engine, and the system’s ability (or inability) to deliver consistent frametimes.

            G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” disables the G-SYNC module’s ability to compensate for sudden frametime variances, meaning, instead of aligning the next frame scan to the next scanout (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen), G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” will opt to start the next frame scan in the current scanout instead. This results in simultaneous delivery of more than one frame in a single scanout (tearing).

            In the Upper FPS range, tearing will be limited to the bottom of the display. In the Lower FPS range (<36) where frametime spikes can occur (see What are Frametime Spikes?), full tearing will begin.

            Without frametime compensation, G-SYNC functionality with V-SYNC “Off” is effectively “Adaptive G-SYNC,” and should be avoided for a tear-free experience (see G-SYNC 101: Optimal Settings & Conclusion).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Interesting.
            I was there when the article was published but I don't remember the details after all these years. Keep in mind that it might be quite outdated to the current state of VRR. But I'll give that article a re-read.
            From what I've seen recently though, the added input lag from VRR is insignificant.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the added input lag from VRR is insignificant.
            It's not that VRR adds (noticeable) input lag, it's that it doesn't decrease it because it can't fully replace vsync. You can use VRR to get less tearing and similar input lag to non-vsync non-vrr setups, but not no tearing.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't understand why.
            If I'm inside my monitor's VRR range, how can there be any tearing, or any additional input lag (except for the partial frame lag, ofc)?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >but no no tearing
            If it's there, it's imperceptible, unlike non-vsync + non-vrr. Which makes it better than either.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >less tearing
            How can VRR have any tearing at all if it's synchronized with the frame buffer?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because it's not always perfectly synced. VRR changes the refresh rate of the monitor to match the framerate of the game, but unstable frametimes for the same framerate will still cause tearing.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That makes no sense. Do you have any proof to substantiate that?
            The monitor's refresh rate is directly controller by each individual frame time. How can that ever be out of sync?
            I've never ever observed a single frame of screen-tearing and I've been using VRR since the 1st VRR monitor was released.
            And yes, I recorded my screen at 480fps slow-motion multiple times to test that.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Read the blurbusters article niggy instead of coping.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I've read it 7 years ago. I don't remember all the details, but I don't remember reading anything about having tearing with VRR.
            Can you point me to what page of the article mentions that?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's quoted here

            Actually read the article.
            >The tearing inside the G-SYNC range with V-SYNC “Off” is caused by sudden frametime variances output by the system, which will vary in severity and frequency depending on both the efficiency of the given game engine, and the system’s ability (or inability) to deliver consistent frametimes.

            G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” disables the G-SYNC module’s ability to compensate for sudden frametime variances, meaning, instead of aligning the next frame scan to the next scanout (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen), G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” will opt to start the next frame scan in the current scanout instead. This results in simultaneous delivery of more than one frame in a single scanout (tearing).

            In the Upper FPS range, tearing will be limited to the bottom of the display. In the Lower FPS range (<36) where frametime spikes can occur (see What are Frametime Spikes?), full tearing will begin.

            Without frametime compensation, G-SYNC functionality with V-SYNC “Off” is effectively “Adaptive G-SYNC,” and should be avoided for a tear-free experience (see G-SYNC 101: Optimal Settings & Conclusion).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Then it's basically what I was saying. Those frames are rendered OUT of the maximum VRR speed of the monitor, hence they will obviously tear if you don't also have Vsync enabled.
            Long story short: it's not possible to have tearing inside the VRR range. It's a bad choice of words from Blur Busters but I understand it's easier to explain in layman terms that way.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because it's not always perfectly synced. VRR changes the refresh rate of the monitor to match the framerate of the game, but unstable frametimes for the same framerate will still cause tearing.

            I really hope you're not talking about the frames that are ready faster than the monitor's maximum VRR range.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            see

            Then it's basically what I was saying. Those frames are rendered OUT of the maximum VRR speed of the monitor, hence they will obviously tear if you don't also have Vsync enabled.
            Long story short: it's not possible to have tearing inside the VRR range. It's a bad choice of words from Blur Busters but I understand it's easier to explain in layman terms that way.

            The "sudden frametime variances" are frames that are outside of the VRR range. They will behave as if VRR does not exist.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >VRR is necessary on consoles because consoles don't have the hardware to keep consistent fps.
            You don't seem to understand that this is also a software issue, and that some games have either caps or run at framerates that do not give two shits about your hardware. Like you can use a 2013 crusty Thinkpad or a desktop PC with a decent CPU and a 4080ti and it'll have the same issues. You can say whatever about how poorly coded these are, but there's plenty of games out there that way.
            Dragon's Dogma is an example of a game where you cannot get a consistent framerate unless you spend an exhorbitant amount of money. Much more than any monitor with Freesync Premium/G-Sync.

            >I have an IPS screen. Flickering is inherent to VRR.
            I have not one, but three monitors that support freesync. One of which was 90€ and only supports freesync over HDMI, so a crappy implementation. There is zero flickering on any of them when having unstable framerates and frametimes. It's the first time in fact I hear about such thing happening on IPS. It's usually widely recommended to buy IPS over VA to avoid said problem as a matter of fact.

            Blur busters have really dated tests in their website, by the way. They're only concerned about 2 brands of monitors as well (Viewsonic and Zowie). You won't find any data for more modern monitors there.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Blur busters have really dated tests in their website, by the way.
            This.
            Their articles are from the infancy years of VRR.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You don't seem to understand that this is also a software issue, and that some games have either caps or run at framerates that do not give two shits about your hardware. Like you can use a 2013 crusty Thinkpad or a desktop PC with a decent CPU and a 4080ti and it'll have the same issues. You can say whatever about how poorly coded these are, but there's plenty of games out there that way.
            I'm guess you use windows, because this isn't an issue on GNU at all. DXVK lets you disable almost all framecaps in a game, then you can set your own with multiple tools and use either the display server or dxvk itself to enforce mailbox (or other types of) vsync.
            >DD1
            https://github.com/Lyall/DDDAFix

            >Blur busters have really dated tests in their website
            Sorry, but this is just cope. You get flickering with VRR because of the refresh rate jumping around. It's worse if you have a bad monitor or driver, but ever present.

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    what the frick are you talking about

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The one who this was meant for (someone who fricks ugly prostitutes) found it anyway

      [...]

  33. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    MIR was a better idea and you know it.
    maybe now arcan is the way to go

  34. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Xorg was getting old 15 years ago so they started Wayland

  35. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland is a shit solution, but it is still better than X.

    We should have gotten a better successor, but beggars can't be choosers.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      As long as there are still no working replacements for important X utilities, I'll say Wayland is worse.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >important X utilities
        Such as?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          xrandr, xdotool, xmodmap, xset
          It's all compositor specific.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's all compositor specific.
            Yes, that is to be expected, as the compositor should be responsible for those areas instead of being dependent on hacks of underlying systems with little to no hope of ever being improved.
            As a result of that, with this new freedom, screen management on Wayland is already miles ahead than on X11 in the most important DEs.
            If you're using some smaller or exotic DE that doesn't want to implement Wayland, you can keep using X11. Nothing wrong with that, albeit with it's limitations.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >you can use X
            how magnanimous of you

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes, that is to be expected, as the compositor should be responsible for those areas instead of being dependent on hacks of underlying systems with little to no hope of ever being improved.
            How the frick is a standard way to change something a hack of an underlying system?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >a standard way
            That's the thing. X11 is not a standard. It's an implementation.
            And now that it's left unmaintained, your "standard" doesn't work anymore.
            Someone else would need to build another X11 server from the ground up, or maintain the existing one, and absolutely no one is willing to touch X11 with a 10 foot pole.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That's the thing. X11 is not a standard. It's an implementation.
            X11 is literally a standard.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >X11 is not a standard. It's an implementation
            This is the level of knowledge of wayland shills kek

  36. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland is like a new government. We "wanted" it, we're glad the old one is gone, the new one is the future, it's fricking shit, and it will be replaced again soon enough.

  37. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    macOS > Windows > Wayland > X11 > GNOME/KDE on either of those

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Windows window manager is somehow even worse than Wayland for me

      When I alt-tab on Win11 shit gets really unstable, Win11 becomes slow. Wayland+KDE is smooth as frick to me. And I'm on NVIDIA

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Skill issue.

  38. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    How much does gamescope improve Wayland?

  39. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/

  40. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The bot is still making this thread, lmao.
    Also factorio dev shilled wayland in the latest FFF.

  41. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    to waste everyones time. years wasted remaking the wheel instead of improving on what we already had

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why is Linux like this?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because it strives to be better than the others, hence why it's by far the most used OS ever. UNIX systems and Linux in particular run the whole world's infrastructure.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >strives to be
          Then why is it not? The server segment isn't the Linux desktop.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You said Linux, not Linux desktop.
            And even so, it is still better than Windows or Mac OS, so I don't know why you say it isn't.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You said Linux, not Linux desktop.
            It happens all the time, but at least the kernel follows a policy not to break userspace.
            >And even so, it is still better than Windows or Mac OS,
            How delusional do you have to be?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Enjoy your spyware.
            I've used Windows my whole life and it was problems after problems.
            I agree it was kinda bearable until Windows 7, but from then onwards it's been getting worse and worse. It's now basically an ad platform. I don't know how you guys put up with that shit.
            After switching to KDE, I'm never ever going back to Windows. And Macs are even more closed up.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why would I run spyware on Linux? Other than Firefox and Chrome, of course.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I was under the assumption you used Windows or MacOS.

            >Firefox
            >open-source spyware
            Anon... I...

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Telemetry. That studies shit.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            All of those are in the open for you to check. You can check the code yourself and see that none of those have identifying information.
            If anonymous information still pisses you off for whatever reason, you can disable all that and call it a day.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        to waste everyones time. years wasted remaking the wheel instead of improving on what we already had

        >Some dude made Linux when we had all these unix clones already, including open sores bsds
        >"They should have just improved the unix clones we had instead of making linux"

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          why are you rewriting history? The BSDs were in legal hell at the time. Linux was the only viable open source kernel in the days.

  42. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    How is xfce these days? I'm scared of the GTK dependency.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >How is xfce these days?
      Dead with no Wayland support. Keep in mind that even Cinammon and MATE managed to develop experimental Wayland sessions but Xfeces still hasn't. That's how unmaintained it is.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >dead because no wayland
        If you're just butthurt why reply?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          wayland support is coming in xfce 4.20

          >lagging behind Cinnamon and MATE devs, let alone GNOME and KDE devs
          It's dead.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >doesn't jump on the latest trend immediately
            >actually implements wayland but NOOOO IDS DOO LADE IDS OVER
            Stupid demoralizers.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        wayland support is coming in xfce 4.20

  43. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To allow redhat (ibm) to sell more support packages when thousands of legacy applications do not work on the botched xwayland compatibility layer.

  44. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To make setups with different refresh rates on both monitors work better, also HDR I guess but that's not a thing quite yet. If it wasn't for the first I would likely hold off using it tbh, but I am running Hyprland

  45. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland is smoother and more efficient than X11 but it's being hindered by moronic designers and gnome.

  46. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that most Wayland haters don't hate it because it's newer than X, or because they love X so much.
    It's for real, tangible, justified reasons, about which you can read here.
    Ignoring that makes you a moronic Wayland fanboy. Maybe even just a troll who likes flamewars.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >X fanatics
      >having arguments
      haven't read the thread yet but that would certainly be a new one
      i hope you're not baiting me with BS like i NEED tearing or i NEED nvidia

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >or i NEED nvidia
        wait so even the pro-Wayland shills admit it's shit with Nvidia?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          nvidia driver is shit on wayland.
          nvidia needs to fix their driver.
          they claim their upcoming driver will fix it but knowing nvidia, lmao.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          yes you cant even use wayland on nvidia 9 times out of 10

  47. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Wayland permission system was also badly tacked on, make it a core component or don't bother

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The Wayland permission system was also badly tacked on
      It literally doesn't have one. They just outsourced it lol

  48. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To make multi monitor, high refresh rate, high definition monitors actually work

  49. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To replace an old, outdated, and clunky garbage display server that was cobbled together with duct tape for the past 30 years which was holding Linux back as a desktop

  50. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wayland to X.org is what

    [...]

    is to IQfy

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *