What would the world be like without Indo-Europeans?

Hello IQfy. As an archaeogenetic and history autist I've often pondered this question. Partially inspired by the map in picrel, ignoring the obvious blunders like Turks and Magyars existing in their modern positions. I am also planning to turn this scenario into a fully fledged alternate history timeline, and would be happy to receive help or make it into a collaborative work with several anons. The entire history of Europe, Persia and India would have to be rewritten, with entirely different kingdoms, languages, histories cultures and religions. This leaves a lot of room for creativity without being bound by too much historical fact, I'm just trying to get some suggestions or ideas of what this type of world would be like. Here's what I've got so far.
>Vasconic western Europe
>Finnic cultures spread across the Baltic and North European plain, mixing with Funnelbeakers
>Potentially Cucuteni/Danubian proto civilisation becomes the Sumeria of Europe?
>Afro-Asiatics probably take over large parts of Iberia and the Western Mediterranean
>Anatolia remains Hattic
>"Iran" remains Elamite with isolated Zagrosian tribes
>India remains Dravidian
>Either nomad Finns, Turks, Yeniseians, Mongols or Caucasians fill the steppe niche
>If horses somehow don't exist, then the first large bands of mounted nomad conquerors would be camel riders, either of the Middle East or Central Asia
Basically everything west of China is changed entirely, but I want to have a comfy thread to speculate how drastically different this world could be.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bantu bbcs fricking eutan women

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Hi Joseph

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bump don't let this die

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You made the wall of text mistake, OP. Zoomies want to think about a thread for 10 seconds and then move on.
      Next time something like this:
      >What would've happened if there were no Indo-Europeans in Europe?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not just that but I don’t think history that far back is popular with most of everyone on this board

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Have no idea, there are so many changes made at once that its impossible to predict, maybe there won’t be a caste system in India?

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Well. One of the things is, if it wasn't for IE people, perhaps another group would have dominated. Turks perhaps would have overtaken the whole Europe.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Finns would have spread to the entire scandinavia and lived out the viking timeline over again, possibly conquering british isles and 'discovered' America.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      However, with their pagan beliefs being much closer to those of native Americans, perhaps they would have actually gotten along with the people there and formed a different kind of USA.

      Washington monument would probably be a giant totem pole. Even if the president was a blodne guy like Trump. Perhaps named Trumppi

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The ugric union would be rolling in all the natural resources with their low popualtion density. UAE of siberia. Building an artificial jungle dome by the north sea.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Without indoeuropeans in Europe? I guess we can still have them in Iran and Scythia... So:
    -Persian empire has more difficulty holding Anatolia since the language barrier is worse
    -Etruscans get further into Italy
    -Etruscans have much influence from the Phoenicians
    -Carthage/Italy (Etruscan) war is harder fought
    -Roman Empire (Etruscan) doesn't really get off the ground
    -Spain is Carthaginian
    -across the Alps, the Avars roll in and rule everything

    As of maybe 500 AD, northern Europe is a Mongolian-speaking peninsula.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      [samegay]
      *if Aryans can't into Iran, then the "persian" empire read "elamite" empire. I mean, persian wasn't even a written language for Cyrus, and Cyrus already is an Elamite name, and his administration used Elamite . . .

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've been thinking about something that relates to this topic.
    How much impact do things like geographical determinism and societal development ultimately have on us?
    Does non-IE Europe develop their society as fast or even faster than us because of their geographical location or is it ultimately their societal conditions that decide whether or not they fail?

    I look at OP's map and I know there's entirely different people there but will they simply mirror us? At the very least, they're left to deal with very similar conflicts like dealing with whatever group of people manage to monopolize all the trade routes going through Anatolia as an example.
    What if they conquer Anatolia themselves and hold it far longer than our timeline? What is the fate of Native Americans? Who will be the first to visit the New World? It's very fascinating.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Without the PIE Europe would lack cattle, horses, the spoked wheel, and bees. That alone would result in a vastly different Europe. Without the PIE there's no Greece so there might not even be a Europe, just the western edge of Asia.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Without the PIE Europe would lack cattle
        Wrong, cattle was brought to Europe in the Neolithic by Anatolian migrants, who even ferried across the Mediterranean islands; where did you even get the misconception that it was brought by IE? What the frick
        >and bees
        The hell? Bee keping is docmented in Spain already during the fricking Mesolithic, even before the Neolithic migrations.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >bees
        Traces of beeswax on prehistoric potsherds have revealed that the harvesting of bee products by man has been practiced in Greece since the Middle Neolithic period1 (c. 5500 BCE).
        >cattle
        Cattle were the most common domestic livestock animal throughout much of the Neolithic period in the area now occupied by modern day Switzerland, home to a significant number of sites dating to between approximately 4400 and 2500 cal BC.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Without the PIE Europe would lack cattle
        Wrong, cattle was brought to Europe in the Neolithic by Anatolian migrants, who even ferried across the Mediterranean islands; where did you even get the misconception that it was brought by IE? What the frick
        >and bees
        The hell? Bee keping is docmented in Spain already during the fricking Mesolithic, even before the Neolithic migrations.

        >bees
        Traces of beeswax on prehistoric potsherds have revealed that the harvesting of bee products by man has been practiced in Greece since the Middle Neolithic period1 (c. 5500 BCE).
        >cattle
        Cattle were the most common domestic livestock animal throughout much of the Neolithic period in the area now occupied by modern day Switzerland, home to a significant number of sites dating to between approximately 4400 and 2500 cal BC.

        Cope.
        IE= almost useless

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I’m Rusgol.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If indo-europeans never crossed the urals then there's no guarantee uralic or turkic speakers ever end up making it to europe

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bump
    >what if there were no indo-europeans in europe?
    turks, turanics and basques become the dominant groups.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Excellent book.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

    "The Years of Rice and Salt is an alternate history novel by American science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson, published in 2002. The novel explores how world history might have been different if the Black Death plague had killed 99 percent of Europe's population, instead of a third as it did in reality."

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Holy moronic map. The whole concept of indo-europeans is moronic. The old european black sea vinca varna civilisation summed up by y haplos ij spoke what pseuds call "indo-european". The bronze age r1 invaders probably spoke basque because that's where they geneticly conglomerate the most and its a language isolate. R1 being steppe tengrist syncretics have a history of adopting the culture, religions and languages of the places they went, hence why there's no " indoeuropean" in lake chad where they are 90% of the y haplo

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