Why are english people so southern genetically when they live in such a high latitude?

Why are english people so southern genetically when they live in such a high latitude? Literal continentals like dutch are more northern shifted then them.

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  1. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    French people who came after the Anglo-Saxons.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      This.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Alpines ruled over by nordics.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      This.

      The French component in English DNA came before the Angevin period or even the Norman invasion. They came at the same time as the Anglo-Saxon component did.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        no, it was when angevis sent aquitan settlers to england

        The Irish are. The Welsh definitely aren't, some of them are darker than Meds.

        >welsh are darker than meds
        lol what are you smoking

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Wrong. It came came “substantially later.”
        See following excerpts.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous
          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous
        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ok so not anglo-saxon related.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            It wouldn’t even make sense for it to have been related to the Anglo-Saxons because this French dna isn’t northern French, it matches more with southern France. The Anglo-Saxons came from Denmark and Holstein. The best guesses I’ve seen is bits of it coming over across a long span of time, from Charlemagne to the Normans to the Angevins to the Huguenots, etc. I think the French ruling class had a huge impact on English genetics overtime.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I think the French ruling class had a huge impact on English genetics overtime
            French female ruling class?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            France is still majority R1b and they took a lot of wives from places like northern Iberia and southern France. Edward I’s mom was Eleanor of Castile. So maybe that explains the remaining dominance of R1b haplogroups in England, the original franks being Germanic. But that’s a good counter point that may dampen that theory.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Specifically French or Gaul clades of R1b are extremely minor in Britain. Especially considering how mugh Iron Age France contributed.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >France is still majority R1b
            r1b-u152, not U106 like england
            >leonor of castille
            it was his wife, and if you research her genealogy like 4 minutes you will find 80% of her ancestry is burgundian or plantagenet kek

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Those are good points. And Eleanor of Provence (house of Barcelona) vs Eleanor of Castile, oh well, both are south and south western. And the house of burgundy had plenty of dealings and marriages with southern france and Iberia. Eleanor of Castile was maternally Jimenez, a native Iberian dynasty, iirc. But these are just a couple examples anyway. Who knows how many lower levels nobles and knights carried southern dna over the course of hundreds of years.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Geneflow can't explain such a huge contribution. It seems more likely some peasant worker class imported by the normans.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, that probably did a lot. We need another study on this.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            no?
            eleanor of castille mother was the Countess of Ponthieu, whose parents were both from.... ponthieu, her father had a mishmash of ancestry from planntagenets, burgundy, barcelona
            as for provence her mother was from savoy, nothing deeper. her father was the son of noblewoman of a frankish family and one guy with a silesian (polish) grandmother and the rest a mixmash of freankish noblity with ocasional nobles of jimenez or barcelona house, most relevant spanish houses (barcelona, burgundy, jimenez, etc) were extremely mixed

            this shit is very common in high noblity, much rarer to reach lower levels of noblity

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sorry, you’re right. I’m being moronic and I’m fricking their genealogies all up, which is funny because I’ve just spent several weeks studying it.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            All the Franks look like swarthy meds with cavalier levels of hair.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The French component in English DNA came before the Angevin period or even the Norman invasion. They came at the same time as the Anglo-Saxon component did.
        Northwest Germany used to be French but a king died and france split into 3. They probably have France and Germany as the same thing. The saxons would show up as french and German

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The French component in English DNA came before the Angevin period or even the Norman invasion.
        And after.
        >They came at the same time as the Anglo-Saxon component did.
        Some did, but that was Franks who weren't that different from the Anglo-Saxons.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      The difference is clearly negligible, even compared to other Germanics and inhabitants of the British Isles.

      Hard to believe that so many people came from what's now France, especially with so little in the historical record.

  2. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because they mixed with the native celtic population

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Insular celts are more northern than english albeit.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        The Irish are. The Welsh definitely aren't, some of them are darker than Meds.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          Welsh are the most southern of the insular celts yeah. I still think they're a bit more northern than english though I might be wrong.

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Which group gave rise to the Atkinson phenotype?

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      atkinson is a gypsy.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      he seems to be very French looking

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Wouldn't be surprised if this guy has some Indian ancestry.

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    english samples are from southampton, pretty sure you will get that so expected variation of 1,5% ancestry you expect if you take them in york or leicester lol

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nah, Scotland being intermediate between English and Irish points to English being southern shifted.

      Which group gave rise to the Atkinson phenotype?

      Btw I think he's an alpine slave neolithic remnant or more acurately just iron age french.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Nah, Scotland being intermediate between English and Irish points to English being southern shifted.
        not really a matter of discussion,im just stating what it is, the english samples are from southern england, if you move to northern england the variation of 1% you expect will happen, britons in england had clinal variation towards scotand

  5. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    when the angevins took aquitanie they resettled some peasants into england

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      makes sense, huguenots used to represent 5% of england population, and is very plausible that during the 100 years war 3 or 4% of english population were resettled gascons
      >which supports our observation that England underwent additional introgression of southern and/or western European ancestry, consistent with previous analyses of modern and ancient mtDNA diversity181. The extent of this introgression varies between 8% and 50% depending on the source, with a mean of 22% +/- 9% SD (Supp. Fig 6.10).

  6. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Damn, icelandics are Northern as shit. Also, have some BHG. How is this?

  7. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >daily ass mad Anglophobe thread tries to deny the inherent Nordicness of Anglos

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      No one is denying anglos (frisians) being Corded Aryans. We're just rightfully looking with scrutiny, the english genome.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >its the gay that keeps saying Anglos are Frisians
        You wouldn't happen to be swedish?

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          is that turk from sweden that also throws tantrums at samiis?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Theres a Swede that had spectacular fit when the connection between Angles and Goths was made.
            Because Gothicism is apparently some contentious national pride thing. It even involves Swedes in a feud with Spaniards.
            Its actually a fact that some Angles were Goths that settled in England.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Anglos are literally anti-Goths lmao. They have extremely southern and western genetics compared to the baltic Goths.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            False, not only are the Angles most likely a Geatish tribe.
            Historical record literally states Geats/Goths. settled England. So its not even debatable.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            It is debatable the contribution they made. Which as stated was not very big as english people are extremely southern.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Its why Beowulf is an Anglo-saxon epic they settled East Anglia. And the striking similarity between English artefacts and Swedish ones

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >not only are the Angles most likely a Geatish tribe.
            The jutes are the ones assumed to be one.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Would this explain why the English are more likely to get Swedish and Danish dna reported on commercial dna tests whereas Scots, Welsh, and Irish are more likely to get Norwegian dna (Norwegians being more apt to raid Scotland and Ireland during the Viking age).

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes! Scots are Norwegian and English are Danes/Swedes
            The prevalence of red hair among them is because of Norwegians. While the southern Nordics were more blonde.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            That’s interesting. But was there enough Norwegian gene flow to make Ireland and Scotland have more red hair than Norway has?
            Also another think I just thought about, didn’t the angles come from Holstein though and not Sweden?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            the Angles were originally going by another name and migrated south.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The prevalence of red hair among them is because of Norwegians.
            Doubt that's true.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The prevalence of red hair among them is because of Norwegians.
            Norwegians are blondes. The red hair trait is an Irish/Scott inbreed gene.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            swedes have 20% baltic negrito admixture, they are not germanic

  8. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    our founding population was like the dutch which is proto germanic, when these peopel mixed with the nords they created the nordic bronze age

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      No, Nordic Bronze Age were nords who migrated south and created germanics.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        same difference

  9. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why are people trying to claim Balto-Nordics mutts as their own anyways? Goths were basically Norwegians + Latvian mutts

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Goths were a competing tribe with Swedes in southern Scandinavia

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Goths were an East Germanic tribe who invaded Rome.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          Goths and Geats are the same thing. They originate from Sweden.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Goths were from Scandinavia yes. Most resembled swedes genetically but also norwegians and icelandics. They were not north germanics though. The geats were probably distant relatives of goths that stayed in Geatland.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >distance: 3
            thats a lot, basically a different population

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Define a lot. They were clearly scandinavian.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            a distance over 0.02 is already a different race

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'd say a different species, yuck!

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Geats were a bunch of tribes so various tribes migrated out of Sweden at various times

            If goths are geats than east germanics never existed or were just north germanics.

            All Germanics originate from Scandinavia

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Geats were a north germanic tribe that would be conquered by the svear to form Sweden. Goths were an east germanic tribe that conquered rome. Their names are just related due to a common seed spilling tradition among germanics.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          they are literally the same thing, Geats are Goths.

  10. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    If goths are geats than east germanics never existed or were just north germanics.

  11. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hot take. West/North and East Germanic are all forced distinctions.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is what current researchers say they are out dated.

  12. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Goths and Geats were probably related

    Even today Haplogroup I1 is most common in Geatland.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >G2a more common than R1b
      I'm now convinced the Goths were mutts and not actually a homogenous group of Germanics.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        The subclade is Sweden-specific from Funnelbeakers
        they were mostly a mixture of standard Scandinavian Germanics(including varying but low levels of Baltic/Finnic) and local people in northwestern Poland who were not entirely analogous to any modern group

  13. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Everyone relevant in history have noticeable farmer admixture

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      only third worlders and inferior races EG: the whole middle east and north africa

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        you forgot brazil

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Muslims are less farmer than even germans

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          Wrong. They are even worse as they belong to the natufian-related farmbugs. Basically alpines on steroids.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          wrong, all of the middle east is more farmer than white people, more even when you consider than natufians were 89% EEF 11% dinka, even somalis are more EEF than whites

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            truly

            average brown (armenian, gypsies, palestinians)

            Target: Armenian_Gesaria
            Distance: 3.0343% / 0.03034328
            45.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            22.2 Georgia_Kotias.SG
            17.2 Tajikistan_C_Sarazm
            8.4 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG
            7.0 Israel_Natufian

            Target: Gypsy_Barcelona
            Distance: 4.3467% / 0.04346707
            43.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            25.8 Tajikistan_C_Sarazm
            18.0 Poland_CordedWare.SG
            9.0 Luxembourg_Loschbour.DG
            4.0 Morocco_Iberomaurusian

            Target: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
            Distance: 3.8988% / 0.03898770
            43.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            22.4 Israel_Natufian
            17.6 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG
            10.2 Georgia_Kotias.SG
            6.6 Tajikistan_C_Sarazm

            43% EEF+22%natufian (90% EEF) IE 60% farmbug

            average white

            Target: English
            Distance: 4.2767% / 0.04276695
            48.8 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
            38.4 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            12.8 Luxembourg_Loschbour.DG

            Target: Dutch
            Distance: 3.9117% / 0.03911661
            49.6 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
            38.0 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
            12.4 Luxembourg_Loschbour.DG

            more bug anestry = more MENA brown insect bug eyed shitholer

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            exactly

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            EEF probably weren't Afroasiatic genetically, and probably weren't even linguistically.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            *definitely weren't Afroasiatic genetically

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            11% of Dinka seperates ANF and Natufians

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Dinka? Is that what you use as a proxy for the "extra-basal"?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            no extra basal, its just some minor african admixture.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Source?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            We don't have any extra-basal samples so they use Dinka as a proxy. There was a study that specifically said Natufians have not only basal but also an extra-basal component. They're more closely related to Eurasians than are other Africans.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >P-value: 0.434
            Hypothesis discarded.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            its a good P value moron,so is the taforalt one (which confirms nafris are over 50% ANF)

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Muslims are less farmer than even germans

        This. Only ancient Egyptians and Persians were farmers. Arabs couldn't farm for shit.

  14. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    England got FRENCHED.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is this French DNA among Brits paternal or maternal?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Matetnal.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          I should mention it's possible that it's paternal if the french contribution was primarily of Frankish Y dna rather than gaullish.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            franks were genetically and craniometrically unrelated to gaulish peasantry

  15. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    BUMPSISTERS... we did it!!! bumped it again award!

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